I'm currently not speaking to my mother

[turnera]

Physical punching and kicking - the kind where you can disable an attacker. It would (1) be great for you and (2) give you a way to get your mom off your back.

[SpiralOut]

Well I can't find a program anywhere that interests me. It wouldn't even do much to get her off my back anyway. She has no common sense sometimes. I visited this weekend and she was okay, probably because I wasn't around that much.

 

The only thing that pissed me off was the way she started freaking out about me not catching my bus home in time. This was in spite of the fact that a) I had lots of time b) It was my problem to deal with, not hers c) I don't really care if I have to catch the afternoon bus instead of the morning one anyway d) It has no affect whatsoever on her or on anyone else but me

 

I got so annoyed with her that I skipped having a shower so I could leave the house sooner to get away from her. I felt disgusting the whole way back which annoyed me. I shouldn't have to skip having a shower just so she doesn't harass me. She kept making silly remarks about how she guesses I will make it but "only just barely in time." I was 30 minutes early. I don't understand why she does that.

 

I also made the mistake of mentioning what I was going to say to my friend. She told me "Oh, I wouldn't say THAT!!" I told her that there is nothing wrong with me saying that because I am friends with that person and that is how I choose to talk to my friends. She suddenly changed her mind and agreed with me. I think she forgot again that I am not her and she is not me, my friends are not her friends, I have my own way of doing things, my relationships with others aren't the same as her relationship with those same people.

 

I guess she just projects everything about herself onto me. It's annoying but whatever. I think I can deal with it better now. Also I'm happy that she didn't try to put me down this time.

[SpiralOut]

There was one thing she did that still confuses me and frankly it pissed me off. I asked her if she had heard of this website that offers online courses for free. I mentioned it because I know that she does workshops a lot, and this is something that may interest her. Or even if it didn't interest her, it may make her happy to know that I'm not just letting my brain rot. She puts a high value on education. She said no she hadn't heard of it, and I explained what it was. I told her I was doing an online course with it and I was really enjoying it.

 

She suddenly clocked out. She said nothing whatsoever. She didn't even say "oh that sounds nice" and change the subject like a normal person would if they weren't interested. Instead, she acted as if she hadn't heard anything I said. She wasn't there anymore. It was as if I wasn't even there!! I felt like I was a ghost trying to talk to someone who couldn't hear me! It unnerved me, so I left the room.

 

Why would she do that? I don't understand why she froze me out like that. Should I have confronted her about it? I felt that doing so would have been pointless, but I'm regretting not saying "excuse me, did you hear me?? Hellooo, are you in there??" It seemed so rude of her to do that.

Edited August 3, 2013 by SpiralOut

[turnera]

Why? Because you serve a purpose in her life, to be the 'bad' person she can look down upon. It boosts her up to think of you as worse off than her. When you do something good like that, she can't come up with any way to compartmentalize that information and let you still be the screwup.

 

My mom used to do that to me. "Oh, you're not wearing THAT, are you?" Or "who would have believed it, that you could graduate?"

 

When I stopped biting, she stopped spewing.

 

You can redirect your conversations by not reacting to her negativity and only responding to good stuff.

[SpiralOut]

Why? Because you serve a purpose in her life, to be the 'bad' person she can look down upon. It boosts her up to think of you as worse off than her. When you do something good like that, she can't come up with any way to compartmentalize that information and let you still be the screwup.

 

My mom used to do that to me. "Oh, you're not wearing THAT, are you?" Or "who would have believed it, that you could graduate?"

 

When I stopped biting, she stopped spewing.

 

You can redirect your conversations by not reacting to her negativity and only responding to good stuff.

 

That's what I thought it might be. I wanted to hear someone say it so I knew I wasn't imagining things. In a way, it still feels unbelievable to me that a woman could do that to her own daughter.

 

Do you mind me asking, how did you learn to detach yourself from it all? I still feel resentful now that I see the damage my mother has done to my self-esteem while I was growing up, not to mention how my boundaries were affected. I remember trying so hard to fight back against her and how useless it was. Now I have to look at the messed up beliefs she stuck in my head, that are holding me back. It is so hard to fix them. I feel like a victim trying to recover and I don't like that.

[turnera]

Well, we were really poor growing up, and I basically wore hand me downs all my childhood. Once I got to high school, well, you can imagine the ribbing I took for not looking like everyone else. I got teased. A LOT. Somehow, alone the way, instead of getting mad at those people, something clicked. I realized that there wasn't anything wrong with ME, that I had no control over what clothes I wore, so the 'reason' they made fun of me...wasn't really ABOUT me. If that makes sense. I realized that, if someone had to make fun of me, there must be something in THEIR life that was missing, that could cause them to be mean to someone else. If they were so miserable that they had to do that, they must be really miserable, inside.

 

And, just like that, I felt sorry for them.

 

Ever since then, I've only felt pity for people who could hurt someone else.

 

Feeling sorry for someone allows me to not be hurt by them.

[SpiralOut]

Yeah I guess I should feel sorry for her. She must be feeling pretty terrible to have to use her own child as someone to feel better than.

 

I am not worried about her hurting me now. I'm mostly angry at the way she hurt me when I was a child and unable to stand up to her or get away from her. How could she do that to someone who has no defenses and did nothing wrong to her? She bullied me. She bullied a little girl. She sometimes even did it right in front of other family members. Why was it so hard for her to stop herself? What the hell sort of person does that? That is seriously messed up. And why didn't my father do more to stop her? He must have realized how damaging it is for a mother to treat her daughter that way? Why couldn't they have sent me to live with my aunt and uncle or something. I might have grown up more normal that way instead of being crippled with low self esteem. I don't even care anymore if she says sorry. I am just disgusted at her behaviour. I've resisted the idea of marriage and motherhood my whole life because I'm terrified of being like her.

[turnera]

The difference is that you are aware of the issues; she wasn't. Back then, people just lived their lives, using the skills THEY learned in THEIR childhood. You won't be like her because you're aware of it.

[SpiralOut]

Oh my god. Today has been challenging. The parents came up to visit today. First I had an issue with them arriving sooner than I was ready. I told them to take their time because I need another 10 minutes please. They ignored me completely. In fact, my father became angry that I would not let them in when he wanted me to.

 

I got fed up and just let them come in early even though I felt angry about it. I buzzed them in and was in the bedroom dressing when I heard people in the entranceway. They had let themselves into my apartment without knocking!! They would NEVER do that to another family member. I became upset asked "why didn't you knock??" And my father said the door was open. I asked what they meant, it was open? It had been left ajar. Well, that was an accident since I was running around throwing out garbage and did not notice I left the door half open. He then became angry at me for being angry at them, and he yelled at me. I got angry and yelled back. My mother, at this point, had my back, which surprised me. She said "but we should have knocked anyway even though the door was open." I calmed down and said yes, I prefer for people to please knock.

 

There were no other incidents until she offered to give me a necklace of my grandmothers. I told her no thanks, and explained I don't know what I would do with it. She seemed to respect that. I forgot all about it until I came home and found it on my kitchen counter. She decided to just leave it with me anyway even though I said no!! She always does that!

 

So tomorrow morning at breakfast I will be bringing it with me and giving it back to her.

 

A few minor incidents of asking questions I felt were intrusive, wanting to know all about my friend's life, which I think I handled okay. Wanting to know whether or not my grandmother had sent me a birthday card earlier that year. They are so nosy.

 

My god, I feel exhausted. I thought my mother was all the problem, but my father also seems to think he gets to act however he wants with me. And I've been having dreams all week about still living at my parents house. I think my brain is telling me that they still have control over me. I am setting new rules with them now. It's so tiring.

 

And earlier this year when I visited home, my father out of nowhere became extremely snarky and rude to me about the sorts of people he thought I was friends with. I don't understand what the hell his problem is, but I have never seen him act that way towards my brother. Never.

Edited September 1, 2013 by SpiralOut

[SpiralOut]

I gave it back to her this morning and she "didn't remember" putting it there. Yeah okay.

 

I don't even feel insulted by it anymore. I think she just does things passive-aggressively without even knowing what she is doing.

[turnera]

Now you're getting it!

[camillalev]

Spiral, have you considered your mom is narcissistic or a sociopath?

[SpiralOut]

Camilla: No I don't think she's a sociopath. Possibly a narcissist, since so many people have suggested it.

 

I forgot to mention that I conducted an experiment while she was visiting. I put that new bestselling book about Introverts on the coffee table and asked her if she had read it. She said she hadn't, picked it up and looked through it. The comments she made indicated that she didn't know a hell of a ****ing lot about what introverts are. It confirms my theory that she has no understanding of it. It explains much of her behaviour towards me. She thinks everyone needs to be an extravert like her or else they are weird. My whole life she treated me like something is wrong with me. It wreaked havoc on my self-esteem. She's ignorant.

 

I'm supposed to be talking about her in my next therapy session, so that should be interesting.

[SpiralOut]

My therapist thinks that my mother has a mental illness, possibly bi-polar. She agrees that my mother bullied me.

 

I feel validated.

[SpiralOut]

I am coming around to forgiveness.

 

 

She never talks about her childhood. She was raised by an alcoholic mother. She keeps in touch with her mother. However, the way she talks about her makes me feel uneasy. I mentioned this to my father when I visited for the holidays. He told me that's the way she deals with things. I didn't push the subject further.

 

 

Tonight I sat on the bus after work trying not to cry. Whatever she went through must have been hurtful. She never talked about it, which means she never processed it, never came to terms with it. It came out in other ways, like in the way she bullied me and projected herself onto me. I don't like it that she did that. However, she and I share some of the same traits. If I had been in her position, I might have done the exact same thing. That doesn't make it okay. It means she didn't know any better. I wish that she would have talked about things with someone. If she had, maybe things would have been different.

 

 

The whole situation makes me feel terribly sad for herself and for me. This might be the denial talking, but I think she might be improving. She mentioned that she is reading a self-improvement book about communication. She behaved herself when I saw her. She is not a stupid woman. I hope that I'm not just getting my hopes up.

 

 

At some point, I want to say something to her to make some peace.

[turnera]

Wow, Spiral, I'm really impressed. And proud of you.

[Blade96]

yeah my folks are like this too. When my mom encouraged me to continue my Russian studies she suggested I find some Russian folks to speak with and write to online to practice Russian. My dad said no what about men blah blah. I'm 35! Not a teen! And then my mom said I only should talk with girls! Now of course they are eating crow, because my friends - men and women - are awesome, including the Russian guy who flirted with me. And my folks have shut up about it ever since.

 

But they were always like that. I went away to visit a male friend of mine for a couple hours (I was like 33 or 34 then) and my mom was worried he was gonna rape me or something. No reason to suspect he would, only that he had a penis. (Because just having a penis means you MUST be a rapist, right?) I got mad at her over that too. And again, they ate crow.

 

They did not say anything about my doctor though. When I was very ill (had an extreme allergic reaction to medication that caused side effects that led to damage to my lady parts) my doc a male had to look at me. At that point I didn't care of he was male or female or some mixture, I just wanted to get better! I do not care about my doctor's gender anyway though. I only care if they are a good doctor and can do well what the medical school taught them to do. I trusted my male doctor, and he is a good man. I had no problem with him. He was very professional, and with his help, I got better (though it took the whole summer of that year)

Edited December 31, 2013 by Blade96

[dreamingoftigers]

Camilla: No I don't think she's a sociopath. Possibly a narcissist, since so many people have suggested it.

 

I forgot to mention that I conducted an experiment while she was visiting. I put that new bestselling book about Introverts on the coffee table and asked her if she had read it. She said she hadn't, picked it up and looked through it. The comments she made indicated that she didn't know a hell of a ****ing lot about what introverts are. It confirms my theory that she has no understanding of it. It explains much of her behaviour towards me. She thinks everyone needs to be an extravert like her or else they are weird. My whole life she treated me like something is wrong with me. It wreaked havoc on my self-esteem. She's ignorant.

 

I'm supposed to be talking about her in my next therapy session, so that should be interesting.

 

I couldn't help but chuckle internally. For some reason this reminded me of my mother-in-law who is very manipulative etc.

 

Last time i was talking with her she told me about this evaluation she took to become a foster parent again.

 

They told her that she was "passive-aggressive." She was delighted. She told me that it meant she was very easy to get along with to the point of passivity until someone took it way too far and then she would be able to stand up and protect herself.

 

Yeah, that's really not what passive-aggressive means.

I asked if they told her what it means. She said no. "But its obvious and i agree with it."

 

I agree with her on that. It is obvious that she is totally passive-aggressive.

[Blade96]

And the "just get over it" and you'll understand when you have kids" as if childfree and childless people are just dunces and cannot and will never understand anything unless they pop one out, and Yes I have gotten that attitude , makes me want to punch a wall. This kind of thinking is EXACTLY why many people without children do not like parents. Smug. Arrogant. like they are up there and we are down here because the Almighty Reproductive System worked. Abuse and crossing boundaries is something ANYONE with sense can understand whether you have kids or not. How about YOU get over it.

[Debanked]

Blade, it's like that with parents and other parents. You're constantly one-upped and getting hit with "wait 'till this" or "wait 'till that" happens by those that have kids older than yours. It gets old REALLY fast! I just want to enjoy where my kids are at without getting constant "previews" from every other parent with kids older than mine!

[Blade96]

Blade, it's like that with parents and other parents. You're constantly one-upped and getting hit with "wait 'till this" or "wait 'till that" happens by those that have kids older than yours. It gets old REALLY fast! I just want to enjoy where my kids are at without getting constant "previews" from every other parent with kids older than mine!

 

yeah I know Parents do that with EACH OTHER! As well as to the childless and childfree. I'm glad to see parents with sense get tired of it all as well. Not all parents are bad - most of my fb friends are parents. My 2 closest friends who are husband and wife - are parents. But I'm sometimes one of the childfree people who don't like parents, MANY parents, at times. Yeah I've heard ofthe competitions - who's kid walked first talked first and look what my kid did and look what my kid can do so on. Makes even many PARENTS want to punch a wall! My mother wants me to get my masters now so she can have bragging rights. Because none of her siblings - or her - ever got a masters. None of their children - my cousins have one. And none, can speak Russian. But if I got my masters in Russian, oh my.

[dreamingoftigers]

yeah I know Parents do that with EACH OTHER! As well as to the childless and childfree. I'm glad to see parents with sense get tired of it all as well. Not all parents are bad - most of my fb friends are parents. My 2 closest friends who are husband and wife - are parents. But I'm sometimes one of the childfree people who don't like parents, MANY parents, at times. Yeah I've heard ofthe competitions - who's kid walked first talked first and look what my kid did and look what my kid can do so on. Makes even many PARENTS want to punch a wall! My mother wants me to get my masters now so she can have bragging rights. Because none of her siblings - or her - ever got a masters. None of their children - my cousins have one. And none, can speak Russian. But if I got my masters in Russian, oh my.

 

I went through this garbage before I had my daughter and I resented it then.

I was try to be careful in how things come across to people that don't have children so I don't appear to have that "well you just don't get how grand I really am because I gave birth."

 

Although, I was in labour for three days.

My mother always used to blah blah about how she "was in labour for 27 hours for me." Like a guilt-trip. Not just a reported fact.

 

It wasn't until I was actually in labour that I realized what a ridiculous guilt-trip it was.

It wasn't like she VOLUNTEERED for more labour.

 

I mean, I couldn't just have two hours of labour and say "okay kid, I really did want to disturb you, but it's time to come out." LOL.

 

I couldn't just say "alright it's been four hours now. That's enough labour for me today. Could we please schedule the rest of this for next Thursday."

 

Or finally, "well if I go through eight hours of labour, then she'll be born with an IQ of 112, but if I go 12 hours she gets an IQ of 118. So if I do three and a half days, she'll be a total genius!"

 

Going through labour is the voluntary activity. The length of it is not up to us.

I think if my Mom chose she might've chosen two-three hours of labour. Four if they were having an Oprah marathon on TV and she could've used the excuse to not get off the couch.

[dreamingoftigers]

And the "just get over it" and you'll understand when you have kids" as if childfree and childless people are just dunces and cannot and will never understand anything unless they pop one out, and Yes I have gotten that attitude , makes me want to punch a wall. This kind of thinking is EXACTLY why many people without children do not like parents. Smug. Arrogant. like they are up there and we are down here because the Almighty Reproductive System worked. Abuse and crossing boundaries is something ANYONE with sense can understand whether you have kids or not. How about YOU get over it.

 

I have (in general) found the "get over it" response to people to be such a ridiculous one. So belittling.

 

Like is there a manual to "get over things."

How does one magically "get over" years of abuse and belittling?

How does one "get over" being used as a tool to validate one's parents as they stomp your feelings and development to the ground? And tell you that it wasn't important because "you were too unqualified for whatever reason" to understand.

 

And yet, we are supposed to be eternally understanding that "they had pressure etc."

 

The other one is "you'll understand when you have kids."

 

And I did. I understood very early on with my daughter that they "cared" but as a side-note.

 

After having my daughter become the center of my life, I noticed just how much I wasn't considered in theirs.

[Blade96]

Tiger , or more accurately, you're a tigress since you are female, you sound like a good woman with a good head on her shoulders. Don't change.

 

As for labour - brings up another annoyance - parents who must have the birth done a certain way (like it must be the nature way instead of a C) and parents who want it done before the new year (so they can claim it) and people who want them to have this. When my friend was having her son, the nurse kept insisting she have it done naturally, even though he was too big and. Actually. Stuck. In. The. Birth. Canal. As we all know, that's dangerous. And the nurse definitely should know. Yet she still kept insisting. My friend is still mad about that.

 

Yup there is a lot of things that annoy other parents as well. And not just people who don't have children.

[SpiralOut]

I'm still confused about why she never got help for herself.

 

I still remember years ago when her mother was coming over to visit. She was cleaning the house and she told me that if the house isn't clean, her mother criticizes her for it. If there's dust on a table she would point it out to my mother. I was very young at the time so it didn't click. But my mother is really crazy about cleaning. Now I see that's where she got it from. I did some googling and found out that perfectionism is a coping mechanism of kids raised by alcoholics. I'm betting she was criticized for lots of things. And she passed that down to me by criticizing me for things. Lucky me!

 

Here's the part where I feel confused. I feel as though I'm the parent now. I'm trying to figure her out and understand her. Growing up, I always wished she would try to understand me. When I lost my temper and called her names, I wished that she would ask me what was wrong. She never did. Now that I'm an adult, I am doing for her what she never did for me - trying to understand her and actually giving a crap about her feelings. I can't help but feel resentful of that.

 

She tried to be a good mother in lots of ways, but when it comes to anger she couldn't handle it. She couldn't handle her own feelings and she didn't know how to deal with angry people. She never taught me how to handle my anger properly, so I acted out against her, against the boyfriends I dated, anyone who treated me poorly I just shouted at them. I had to teach myself at age 28 how to be assertive because she never taught me.

 

I don't understand why she didn't get help. There are support groups for family members of alcoholics. Couldn't she see she was ruining her relationship with me? She and I have never been close. I've never trusted her. Couldn't she see that? Could she not see it was her own fault that her daughter hated her? I really did hate her for the longest time.

 

 

Also I have this question: Was she sometimes trying to treat me as the mother she never had? I really did feel sometimes that she was confessing things to me as if I were a friend. That stuff was inappropriate sometimes (like complaining to me how much money I cost her). Was she taught that it's normal to treat your child like an adult? Was she looking for a mother figure?

Edited January 2, 2014 by SpiralOut