Is this commitment phobia? Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

[Ktzmom]

Clia, while I think you could be right, is it not possible for people with addictions, phobias and the like to seek help and "recover" from the problem? THEY have to see it and want it for themselves, of course, but I do still think it is possible! I may be fooling myself, but I still feel there is a chance. (however small) In the meantime, I am taking care of ME and keeping myself busy. I will be picking up He's Scared, She's Scared, have read and heard lots about it.

 

 

Missy, yes I did read the other post, it helps to get a guy's thoughts, don't you think? No, it may not have been all rosy but some ??? have been answered for me, how bout you? Don't know if I told you but I've been talking to a counselor, and she feels this IS the problem, but at this time all I/we can do is be patient, IF that is our choice, to give it time. (see above) For now that is what I am going to do.......if he should try to come back the choice is ultimately mine, whether I am willing to give it another try....

 

I ALSO went up north this weekend--sat around a campfire, had a few drinks with friends, just relaxed. It also kept my mind off things for awhile. Were we sisters in a former life?? Seems like alot of coincidences here.

 

Back to work tomorrow, YAYYYYYYYYYY!!!

[clia]

Clia, while I think you could be right, is it not possible for people with addictions, phobias and the like to seek help and "recover" from the problem? THEY have to see it and want it for themselves, of course, but I do still think it is possible!

 

It's definitely possible to change, but you are right -- they have to see it and want it for themselves. My ex saw the problem, but (obviously) didn't want to tackle it. Both of the books I mentioned talk about getting over commitmentphobia.

[missy10]

Clia - oh my gosh I think you are right . . . we did date the same guy!!!! Identical scenarios - way too freaky! Perhaps they aren't so rare in this world!

 

Can I ask - have you met someone else since him that has given you hope that they aren't all like that? Has it made you more cautious to put your heart out there?

 

Thanks for your insight and I will definitely check out those books. Who would ever imagine I have finally moved out of the dealing with divorce books and finding myself to now figure out out committment phobias! LOL.

 

Oh happy monday!

 

Missy10

[missy10]

ktzmom: YOu sat around a campfire but didn't roast some'mores? I feel bad my 10 year old son is at boyscout camp until Wednesday and its pouring out - they are tenting it!

 

LOL - sisters - perhaps we were except I only had 2 brothers. We do have a lot of similiarities though. Why don't you come over and help me finish painting - families help each other. My former in-laws are coming to town this week and I want to have the house in somewhat less than chaos.

 

I hope your week goes well - keep me posted.

 

Missy10

[clia]

Can I ask - have you met someone else since him that has given you hope that they aren't all like that?

 

Oh yes! I've been dating a wonderful man. On date three he actually asked me if I would be his girlfriend. (Imagine!) So, no fear of commitment with this one!

 

Has it made you more cautious to put your heart out there?

 

At first, yes, definitely. I mean, it's completely devastating to spend that much time with a guy and then realize that his heart and emotions weren't in it at all, although all actions said otherwise. I couldn't believe it! How could someone be so...heartless and cruel? It took a little while, though. I'm a pretty honest person when it comes to relationships and couldn't imagine leading someone on in that way for eight months when he had no interest in pursuing anything further, so I could not even relate to his position at all. But I did move on. I forced myself to.

 

I always like to believe the best about people, and I believe that most guys aren't like this. Although I take certain things from past relationships and apply them to the future, I realize that not all men are the same and it would be wrong of me to put my fear of landing another commitmentphobe ahead of giving a new guy a decent chance to show me that he isn't a commitmentphobe. Does that make sense? I put my heart into relationships...if I get devastated, I pick up, move on, and find someone else who is better. But that's just me. And the entire relationship was a fabulous learning experience. I can pick out a commitment phobe pretty quickly now, and I stay away from them!

 

And there are great guys out there who do want normal relationships! And want a girlfriend! And want to commit!

[sweetadeline]

Great thread, and Clia, the books you mention *are* really useful--they've helped me to see that my ex probably is a commitment phobe, at least at this point in his life.

 

Clia, I'm intrigued that you can now spot a commitment phobe so quickly. What, for you, are the telltale signs? (I've read the two books you mention but haven't yet gotten the system down, so to speak.)

 

Also, if you don't mind my asking, how and where did you finally meet your non-commitment phobe?

[Yeti]

kinda sounds like your men friends are suffering from the "what-ifs". being extremely devestated in a love relationship, and now finding hard to move on because they still are clinging to a breath that they might work out their previous relationship. "What if she desides to come back. What if she doesn't feel like being with him anymore. What if I show her I can change."

 

most likely, you'll find the woman left them in the relationship or it was mutual. a strong healthy relationship, with a sudden drastic change. they need time to focus on the bad that was in the relationship, and why the relationship ended. it will be hard for them to commit themselves because they are going to have those what-ifs on the back of their mind, not all the time but when they do their personal thinking. they will push new relationships away in trying to protect the emotions of others women they think they will hurt.

 

i am not a psycologist though, this is just all from observation...

 

- Yeti

 

It is said that man is a rational animanl. All my life I have

been searching for evidence that could support this.

- Bertrand Russell

[clia]

Clia, I'm intrigued that you can now spot a commitment phobe so quickly. What, for you, are the telltale signs? (I've read the two books you mention but haven't yet gotten the system down, so to speak.)

 

Check out Chapter 2 of Men Who Can't Love. It really details the typical pattern and stages of commitmentphobes. There are two major things for me that set off a "pink" flag.

 

1) When a guy comes on very strong in the beginning. Of course it's normal that when you meet someone you like that you want to see them and talk to them, but when a guy is really coming on strong, calling all the time, wanting to see you all the time, doing everything he can to make you fall in love with him...watch out. (Granted, some guys who do this are decent and capable of commitment -- that's why you really have to be in charge of pacing the relationship -- commitmentphobes get a high from this stage, and then afterward it all goes to hell.) In the book, this stage is referred to as "Fearless Pursuit." You MUST pace things -- if you aren't "falling" for him enough, he will move on and find someone else to "blowtorch" (to use one of John Gray's terms!). My friends and I refer to guys who do this as "90 day wonders" -- I'm not sure that all these guys are truly commitmentphobes, but when things cool off after the blowtorch and they leave, why they left doesn't really matter, does it?

 

2) Inconsistent actions and words. These guys are singing confusing songs. They may talk about marriage and family, yet do nothing to move the relationship forward. Conversely, they may move the relationship forward with no talk of marriage and family. They may introduce you to everyone in their lives, but do nothing to move the relationship forward. Or introduce you to no one in their lives, but insist that you are their girlfriend and oh so special to them. Etc... People say "actions speak louder than words" -- well, this isn't true if the actions and words are speaking a different language.

 

Also, if you don't mind my asking, how and where did you finally meet your non-commitment phobe?

 

He was a friend of a friend. (Which, surprisingly, is exactly how I met my commitmentphobe ex!)

[sweetadeline]

Thanks, Clia. The thing that made my situation tricky was that my ex didn't really fit the classic definition of a commitment phobe--he didn't pull out all the stops right away and wasn't inconsistent in the ways you describe. But still, the minute we hit 90 days and things became more real, he left skid marks. So I suspect that the classic model doesn't describe *every* situation of commitment phobia--but it's still useful, and thanks so much for your detailed comments!

[Ktzmom]

Hi everyone, It sounds like this is a epidemic!!!! The only comfort we have right now is knowing we are not alone.... the new posts further confirm my guy is CP.

I am wondering, has anyone heard success stories in these situations? If the CP realizes the problem, and works to resolve their issue, have any relationships survived???

 

As I've stated in previous posts I am willing to give this some time, I am in no hurry to find anyone new. I'm just going to take care of myself and my daughter. This guy does mean alot to me and I would like to see things work out. (Maybe this is the result of us breaking up, maybe I am now afraid to trust anyone again, is it contagious?) LOL

 

For now, I am keeping busy and trying not to dwell on things too much. There are still times when I get down about the situation, wish he was here, wish he would call, etc. but I just try to keep pressing on. We still have some contact, and I look forward to the times when I do see him/ talk to him, but I am not going to put the rest of my life "on hold".

 

MISSY

You're right a campfire and no smores doesn't seem quite right, does it? I have to say though, it may be for the best in this case, some of these people have a couple beers, I don't want them TOO close to the fire! LOL

I think that trip up north was very good for me. I am feeling pretty good today esp. for a Monday!! How are you?? Did you talk to/see your friend since the dinner last week?

Take care and keep me posted.........

[missy10]

Ktzmom: Hey - just finished painting my sun room - doesn't look too bad and I didn't even spill any paint - I think I'm getting the hang of this. Plus I don't have any kids - one at camp and one at friends house.

 

Yes, actually I saw him this morning to return some equipment. Had a nice chat - feel some distance - no effort made for future engagements which I didn't anticipate there would be. Just made sure I looked my best. Ball is in his court. Hope he knows what to do with it!

 

Missy10

[clia]

Ktzmom: Guard your heart. With a steel door.

[Ktzmom]

A steel DOOR? Somewhat contradictory isn't it????

 

I am still very confused as to WHAT I should do, not sure if I would go running back if he called, also not sure I can just shut off the feelings I have. I still have some ????? for him, but I realize I may never get the answers... I know I am tired of this on the one hand, but on the other hand thinking.

 

IMO this is the worst type of break-up. Cheating, abuse, alcohol and drug addiction are all painful for sure, but in most cases there is enough information to help make an informed decision. I am in no way trying to minimize the pain these people endure, in fact, my divorce was due to my husbands drinking problem. I have been there and never want to go back.........

 

But this just blows my mind, so many ???? that I ask myself over and over (and all of you, THANK YOU for all of your thoughts, by the way!!!)

[clia]

IMO this is the worst type of break-up.

 

I totally agree with you. You never truly get the answers or closure you want. Part of you feels like he could change...but he can't unless he really wants to, and even then, he might need counseling to do so. It sucks.

 

A steel DOOR? Somewhat contradictory isn't it????

 

It makes no sense for you to put it all out there when he isn't. Who is most likely to get hurt here? You.

[missy10]

Ktzmom: Is your biggest question . . . why??? . . . . because if it is he may not be able to answer that question because he may not be able to pin point it himself. Its a fear he has and isn't ready to face that fear and understand the possibility that you aren't like his past relationship(s)? And maybe for him finding out down the line that it didn't work may be harder for him to grasp and accept than if he cuts the cord now? I'm only speculating of course. Maybe he has developed feelings for you and it scares the crap out of him - doesn't know how to deal with those feelings and isn't ready to face up to them and accept that they are real and its okay to feel this way.

 

I have run into this - maybe the realization down the line of an instant family isn't something he wants to embrace? I had two relationships go south because of that - not that I have bad kids - very polite kids actually - but they are very young and most men my age (40+) have been down the road with little kids and done the little league etc and don't want to do it again.

 

It also could be that his plate is full with his own life and feels he would be cheating you out because he doesn't have the time to devote to you like he feels you deserve or want? Didn't you say he has a teenager moving in with him?

 

Yes it would be easier if he could just sit down and spill his guts and allow you the opportunity to speak your peace but it could be he is afraid that you might be able to do that and he has made his mind up for now that it just isn't for him?

 

Oh my gosh I need to reread what I just wrote you because that probably applies to my situation as well! Although we can talk and tease each other in conversation but I think the train stops right there.

 

Tomorrow's hump day . . . wish it had more meaning than just being Wednesday!

 

Missy10

[Ktzmom]

Missy: Yes, that is one of the big ???? and doesn't it just bite that these big strong men are emotional wimps??? I do wish he and I could sit down and hash it all out--not so I could try to change his mind-but so I can get it all out on the table, maybe then he would feel more comfortable talking about his take on things. He has said he wants to explain it to me.....I wonder --- will that be before or after I lose my mind???

 

I don't think the instant family thing is an issue, he has a 17 yr old daughter AND a 9 yr old son, I have an 8 year old daughter so to an extent we still both have little league, etc.

 

He is very busy, and says I deserve someone who can do more with me, but he was just a busy when we began seeing each other???

 

One day at time is what he kept saying, now I keep saying it to myself to get through this, ironic isn't it??

 

Hope you are well, keep posting!!

 

By the way, the hump day remark, I almost said the same to you in my post doodoodoodooo (Twilight Zone)

[Ktzmom]

I REALLY wish I had some small idea of what this guy is feeling, it is so confusing seeing him everyday at work.. I can't wait to see him and after I do, I usually feel great. There are other times when I just get more frustrated, just want to talk to him ALONE and that is impossible at work.

The other thing I keep thinking of is what about this no contact business? I wonder if these little hellos in the hall are slowing any progress that may have been made by leaving him alone?

Yesterday at work, HE approached me and asked how I was doing...wasn't sure if he meant in general, or if he meant about this. Just said I'm fine, how are you? and smiled..he said he was alright I GUESS...Now what the hell is that supposed to mean?

I am tired of reading into things, why do I continue to put myself through all of that?? He talks to me and that is a good thing, but I get so impatient wondering, could we get back together and is this a small step in the right direction, OR am I just fooling myself and the reason he talks to me is simply everyday conversation? THEN I think about some of the conversations and know THAT isn't always the case....and on and on...

I woke up today and this was the first thing on my mind AGAIN. I know it will continue to be until I make up my mind otherwise.

My question today is, how long do you think I should give this??? Should I have had some "signal" from him by now? It has been three weeks. I think that's what is stressing me, one more week has passed, and I wonder if I'm just putting myself through hell for nothing........What do you think??

[missy10]

Ktzmom: I feel your frustration level - it stinks! My advice would be not to approach him about getting back together but as to his comment of how he was doing and he replied fine I guess . . . you could have said oh sorry to hear that - if you need to talk sometime - give me a jingle. See if he bites?

 

Take Care!

 

Missy10

[Ktzmom]

missy10: I definitely wouldn't bring up getting back together, at this point I would simply like to have a CLUE about how HE is feeling about of of this....Does it bother him??? I'm sure not to the degree it does me, (men just don't get this emotional, USUALLY!) but does any of this cross his mind when I am not standing in front of him??? Like I said, when I talk to him at work I get the impression he would like to say more, but we only get a few minutes to chat.

The other day I told him to give me a call sometime, his response was that he will, he's just been busy finishing up the house, etc. I am dying here...Will he actually call or is he wishing I was smarter and could take a hint??? We have gone almost this long w/o seeing each other during the r/s, but never this long w/o at least a call. Man, do I MISS him!

 

What's new on your end?? It feels like you are always listening to me ramble on...How are YOU?

[Dinny]

Clia: I admire your strength and honesty partner!!!! and I also think you're brill for not wasting any more then 8 months of your commitmentphobic partner!!!!

 

I ended up spending 16 months with mine.........read "Why Men Can't Love" And the follow up book "Getting to Commitment" by the same other and they did me the world of good.

 

Gave both of the books to my partner after his last "taking off without any notice or contact" stint and then coming back to me as he always did and he read them and said he wanted to work through it and 5 months on............NO improvement.

 

Infact in the last 5 months of our relationship I can honestly say he got worse!!!

 

The worst part.....(and I'm sure you'll relate to this one Clia!) was the (in his case) "my life" and "my life with my girlfriend" At the beginning it was awesome.....I was included in everything in his life, but it all changed and he became the most selfish, self centred guy I have ever met!

 

He would call and see me when it suited him, we'd have sex when it suited him, he went out with his mates when it suited him, he never took me out anywhere that he would go with his friends, I was never invited to his home or even to call into his work......he gave me nothing and in the end when I was an emotional wreck I broke the cardinal rule and wrote him a letter telling him how I felt about him, some of the instances that he didn't treat me right, how much I had done for me and what I needed and he obviuosly wasn't prepared to give it!

 

I haven't heard back from him and that was almost 5 weeks ago. I know that in the book it says you shouldn't contact them because that gives them the release that they are looking for! He has obviously just said to himself "o well.....she ended it so its not my fault" and as cold emotionally as he obviously is....he's just moved on.

 

According to the books I shouldn't have contacted him but I needed closer for me!

 

In saying that I have been a mess for the last 5 weeks missing him terribly, wanting and needing him but it's getting alittle easier now. I would just love him to realise what he has lost but I guess he never will.

 

Do you girls out there think I did the wrong thing writing to him?

 

p.s. Clia you have helped me today hun.........I only wish my ex had had the b**lls to meet me face to face so that I could've said all I wanted to. We were best friends for 5 years before we got together and I miss his friendship but I guess that's the way it goes eh?

[Dinny]

Ktzmom: I agree with Missy10....I know how you're feeling missing this guy n all but she's right! Don't contact him........if nothing else you'll have your pride intact if you don't and believe me girl......if he wants to sort it badly enough......he'll get intouch with you!!

 

I'm breaking my heart over my ex but I did all the running with him in the past and he just took me for granted......he thought to himself "no matter what I do.....she'll be there regardless!" and he was right!!!

 

Now that I've finished it and explained in a letter why I wasn't putting up with it anymore.......if he doesn't come back to me well, at least I have my self respect and yes, I'll hurt for a while but I'll get over it and the next guy I meet won't get the chance to do it to me again cos I'll know the signs.

 

So keep you're chin up hun and just think, if its meant to be it will happen and if it isn't then you're obviously meant to meet someone better.

 

I came across a little poem around Christmas time and I have it up on my wall here in work and I want to share it with you girls cos we all seem to be in the same boat!!

 

Part of it goes like this.............

 

"Watching you walk out of my life does not make me bitter or cynical about love but rather, makes me realise that if I wanted so much to be with the wrong person, how beautiful it will be when the right one comes along.

 

I trust in the goodness of the universe to provide me with a man who loves me enough to make me feel cherished; a man whose love makes me feel "better" about myself when we're together and secure when we're apart.

 

..........................If this relationship doesn't work out, then I will have faith that the universe was clearing the way for the right man to come along"

 

This is only certain extracts from the poem but I think it is beautiful and I hope it helps some of you girlies out there!!

[jw32802]

wait i was just going to mail a letter to mine saying the same things but maybe you are right, maybe it will show that i dont respect myself enough to be mad! im not going to send it, thank godi read this! i was going to say "im fine and im happy and im dating someone great blah blah and i hope you are well" but maybe i shouldnt!

[Ktzmom]

Dinny: sorry to see you going through this too!!

I don't know if it was right or wrong to write him, by the book, NO but aren't we supposed to take care of ourselves right now??? If you needed some closure, you did what felt right to you. It sounds like you were pretty unhappy, maybe you needed to write that stuff down to remind yourself that you are a great person and deserve to be treated as such.....

I don't know that I'm the person to be giving great advice right now, but it sounds like he was very unkind to you...do you want that to start again???? Above all, take care of yourself!!!

[Dinny]

jw32802: Firstly apologies!!!

 

You asked me to reply to you after I put my initial story down on paper to the LoveShack but I didn't.......I guess I was just scared of my identity becoming known so I'm really sorry new friend. I was sitting at home after several glasses of wine and decided to come in to my work to find out if any of you girlies had replied to me and you had!!!!

 

It made me feel really special and not alone anymore! I think that's the worst part of this........relationship breakup!

 

jw.........I really don't want to influence you in what you are going to do about this guy......if you feel you should write to him to get your closer then please do it!!!! or write to him letting him know that you are on the mend and getting on with your life.......sometimes that can be the biggest kick up the behind for guys like this and it might kick him in to action!!!!! Go with your heart girl and thanks for replying to me

 

ktzmom: again.....thank you to you.......it really helps to know that there are a few of us out there that are gonna support each other getting through this!

 

My partner wasn't "bad" to me as such which is why it made it so difficult to break off with him. He had a pure enough heart but because of his commitmentphobia (& believe you me girls! he had it bad!!) he was very nervous and non- emotional when it came to affairs of the heart. He tried his best but also suited himself! but I gave continually through it all making him feel great about himself and being his rock when he needed me but he wasn't there for me when I needed him.

 

I think thats why I find that poem so poignant y'know? I have had around 5 long term relationships in my adult lifetime and most of them were with abusive, controlling and extremely volatile men where yes, the sex was great but that was no compensation for the down side.

 

This guy was different, we were best friends and enjoyed the same things but our sex life was terrible!!! He suffered from "re tractive ejaculation" in layman's terms......he couldn't cum inside of me (hope I'm aloud to say that Regulators!!!!) which I think was also a side effect of the commitmentphobia but he thought because we were best friends that that would compensate for all the other flaws in the relationship.

 

You know yourself, when you are with someone you are madly inlove with you love them, want them and desire them so much so there is so much more to a relationship that just best friends (although that to me & him was the most important thing!) I tried to explain this to him once and he said that hopefully some day in the future he could give to "us" as much as I did!

 

Maybe 5 months wasn't long enough? Maybe I should've stuck with it? O I don't know anymore.......what do you guys think?

 

To be honest......I think I've been thinking too long and hard about this one and should stick to what my gorgeous Irish mother always told me....."what will be will be" bless her........she's passed on now but I firmly believe she is with me every day and will help guide me to the man who is gonna fill my life and heart with the love and joy I deserve!!!!!

 

Keep in touch girlies......I reckon we'll get each other through this now!!!!!

[Dinny]

P.S. jw32802...............in the letter you said you were going to send, you say you "were fine and had met someone new"...............have you met someone new or were you just calling his bluff?

 

hee!!!!!! Sorry! the excellent Chablis I had with my extra fattening.... but EXTRA tasty dinner I had earlier is kicking in.....................

 

...................I hope for your sake honey that you have met someone............that's what I'm lookin forward to......(if it ever happens!!!!!!) my ex seeing me with my arm around someone else, laughing and joking and being loved..............gotta do this healin thing first though.........