23 days as a Vegan - tips?

[HeavenOrHell]

There is no need to stay away from soy/soya.

 

 

Sorry, not exactly true.

 

Also stay away from Soy until further research is done. Your a man and it might mess with your estrogen levels.

 

Also this is an attempt to be more healthy... why not just cut out the unhealthy foods you are eating instead of going vegan?

 

Edit: I'm not trying to talk you out of going Vegan, do it if you want. Just curious.

[brokenTom]

Some soy products are made using TONS of chemicals and processing; I've read some scary articles about it. Of course, those could've been funded by the FDA or competing markets for all we know. Just be aware there are junk soy products just like there are junk diary products.

 

Your best bet is to eat as close to the source as possible. Ya know, organic wholesome foods, not canned, prefabbed, gunk. One of my close friends did develop a disease after becoming a vegan and I believe it was in part becasue she suddenly didn't eat well, lacking the protein and fiber her body was used to getting. You CAN shock your system and get sick. BUT, if you go from eating junk to eating healthy, it could simply be toxins being released from your body.

 

Point is: do your research, don't trust all products especially pre-packaged stuff, consult a physician who specializing in veganism if you get sick. There was a girl who was dying of cancer who was a vegan for a long time, and one doctor made her eat red meat, then her cancer went away. Wish I knew where that video was... but that's not to say she could not have prevented it by sticking with veganism, she was simply lacking the high amounts of B12 and other minerals/nutrients found in high levels within red meats and changing her diet was the fastest way to get back in balance. Her blood PH levels were crazy too, that might've been most of the reason.

 

Doctors are always learning new things, but the general consensus among independent ones (not owned by the greedy pharmaceutical industry) is that a good diet, especially a good VEGAN diet, is the ideal to which we should move towards. Better for our bodies and better for our environment, and at some point will be better for our wallets. It's still relatively cheap to torture and slaughter a bunch of animals then grind them into a pink pulp. Sad but true. I look forward to that changing.

[betterdeal]

I'm not really taking your attempt at veganism seriously because of this >that was back in the 90s and I didn't really know what to or how to make decent vegan food<

 

Jesus wept. Why do you think I told you that in the first place?

 

A meat eater would become ill too if they weren't eating decent meals.

You might not have become ill if you'd eaten healthily.

 

See my comments before about this truism apropos decent diet and ill-health. A diet is decent if it prevents ill-health. A major purpose of eating is to fuel growth and repair. If it doesn't do that, it is a poor diet.

 

I've seen no evidence whatsoever that yoga instructors and health conscious people are becoming omnivores, on the contrary, from what I've seen more people are becoming veggie.

 

I have a different social circle from you.

 

I think anyone can be vegan if they eat correctly, unless they already have some health problem which makes it impossible, although I'm not sure what those health problems might be.

 

So, essentially, we agree that it can work for some people and not others. You appear to discount the possibility of genetic variations making it infeasible (even with artificial supplements) for some or perhaps you consider that to be a health problem?

[HeavenOrHell]

Meat is made with tons of chemicals and processing.

I've no qualms at all about eating soya.

 

I've also read articles written by specialists, who say cutting out animal products can reduce the risk of cancer and heart disease, and many vegans who say they are much more healthy now.

[HeavenOrHell]

>Jesus wept. Why do you think I told you that in the first place? <

 

I see omnivores can be as rude and self righteous as some vegans can be

 

Not really sure tbh, as it negates your own experience of veganism. Same as I wouldn't place validity on the experiences of a vegan who just ate cake.

 

>See my comments before about this truism apropos decent diet and ill-health. A diet is decent if it prevents ill-health. A major purpose of eating is to fuel growth and repair. If it doesn't do that, it is a poor diet.<

 

Yes, and all the vegans I know are very healthy because they make sure they eat a good healthy diet. I've not come across anyone becoming ill from eating a healthy vegan diet.

 

I hear far more about unhealthy meat eaters, and who are often obese.

 

 

>I have a different social circle from you. <

 

No idea, I've just seen no evidence to support what you said.

 

 

>So, essentially, we agree that it can work for some people and not others. You appear to discount the possibility of genetic variations making it infeasible (even with artificial supplements) for some or perhaps you consider that to be a health problem?<

 

I'm not sure which diseases, or genetic variations, might mean veganism isn't possible, haven't come across any yet, find it unlikely that someone would become ill without meat, fish, dairy or eggs, I'll look into this some more though.

[FeelingLonely98]

I'm not sure which diseases, or genetic variations, might mean veganism isn't possible, haven't come across any yet, find it unlikely that someone would become ill without meat, fish, dairy or eggs, I'll look into this some more though.

 

 

Found all over the web:

 

How To Win An Argument With A Meat-Eater

The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die as a result of malnutrition this year: 20 million

Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people:20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock:80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

How frequently a child dies as a result of malnutrition: every 2.3 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000

Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16

 

The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels

Fossil fuels needed to produce meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free diet: 3 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising: 85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat imported to U.S. annually from Central and South America: 300,000,000 pounds

Percentage of Central American children under the age of five who are undernourished: 75

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every quarter-pound of rainforest beef: 55 square feet

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses:1,000 per year

 

The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to less than once a week: 3.8 times

For women who eat eggs daily compared to once a week: 2.8 times

For women who eat butter and cheese 2-4 times a week: 3.25 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meat, cheese, eggs and milk daily vs. sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times.

 

The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four years in medical school: 2.5 hours

Most common cause of death in the U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in the U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 percent

Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat: 15 percent

Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat, dairy or eggs: 4 percent

Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of meat, dairy and eggs by 10 percent: 9 percent

Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption by 50 percent: 45 percent

Amount you reduce risk if you eliminate meat, dairy and eggs from your diet: 90 percent

Average cholesterol level of people eating meat-centered-diet: 210 mg/dl

Chance of dying from heart disease if you are male and your blood cholesterol level is 210 mg/dl: greater than 50 percent

 

The Natural Resources Argument

User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.: livestock production

Amount of water used in production of the average cow: sufficient to float a destroyer

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of California beef: 5,000

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Calories of fossil fuel expended to get 1 calorie of protein from beef: 78

To get 1 calorie of protein from soybeans: 2

Percentage of all raw materials (base products of farming, forestry and mining, including fossil fuels) consumed by U.S. that is devoted to the production of livestock: 33

Percentage of all raw materials consumed by the U.S. needed to produce a complete vegetarian diet: 2

 

The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support

 

The Pesticide Argument

Common belief: U.S. Department of Agriculture protects our health through meat inspection

Reality: fewer than 1 out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues

Percentage of U.S. mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 99

Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8

Contamination of breast milk, due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products, found in meat-eating mothers vs. non-meat eating mothers: 35 times higher

Amount of Dieldrin ingested by the average breast-fed American infant: 9 times the permissible level

 

The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the U.S.: 660,000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job-injury in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

[HeavenOrHell]

Thanks for posting that

[austyre]

may I suggest you google Paul Nison(rawlifehealthshow.com and Dan Mcdanold'' liferegenerator'' also read 80/10/10 Douglas Graham interesting characters in the raw food lifestyle fruitering:) learning alot about Raw foods myself however still eat portions of animal products in my diet just slowly making a transition too vegan

[brokenTom]

I love this cookbook, got it as a present last year:

Amazon.com: Ani's Raw Food Essentials: Recipes and Techniques for Mastering the Art of Live Food (9780738213774): Ani Phyo: Books

 

Some of us take longer to transition, some of us can't "live" without certain foods (seems many people can't go without cheese, for example), some of us are not easily convinced it's much better for you, some are stubborn and refuse to let go of their meat stick, etc...

 

I'm just glad more and more people are moving in this direction though, the arguments made above are great but many still don't want to even listen. Justice will prevail!!! ... ok, maybe "justice" is a bit dramatic, but it's surely a slow moving transition for society in general.

[FeelingLonely98]

Some of us take longer to transition, some of us can't "live" without certain foods (seems many people can't go without cheese, for example), some of us are not easily convinced it's much better for you, some are stubborn and refuse to let go of their meat stick, etc...

 

I guess I was lucky? I just went from eatting meat to vegan and didn't need to go through a transition. It was rather easy...

[HeavenOrHell]

I find it funny, and slightly ridiculous, when people claim they 'can't live without' cheese, or chocolate, for example, or that they 'need' it.

I'm a 'chocoholic' who loved milk chocolate, and hate plain, but there are alternatives now, and I also make cakes to make up for it, problem solved!

[WilliamsTaylor]

This is a simple process to manage a healthy and balance diet while eating vegetables and fruits make sure you are also taking milk supplement which fulfills the needs of bones and muscles in a properly. I would also suggest you eat green leafy vegetable, fiber and juicy fruits.These are sufficient enough to provide energy to the body and maintain a healthy diet.

[123321]

I find it funny, and slightly ridiculous, when people claim they 'can't live without' cheese, or chocolate, for example, or that they 'need' it.

I'm a 'chocoholic' who loved milk chocolate, and hate plain, but there are alternatives now, and I also make cakes to make up for it, problem solved!

 

I grew up on a farm, and milking cows won me a lot of arm-wrestling contests as a young man. I have no problems with the "ethical issues" around eating cheese.

[Emilia]

Found all over the web:

 

How To Win An Argument With A Meat-Eater

The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die as a result of malnutrition this year: 20 million

Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people:20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock:80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

How frequently a child dies as a result of malnutrition: every 2.3 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000

Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of edible flesh from feedlot beef: 16

 

The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels

Fossil fuels needed to produce meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free diet: 3 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising: 85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat imported to U.S. annually from Central and South America: 300,000,000 pounds

Percentage of Central American children under the age of five who are undernourished: 75

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every quarter-pound of rainforest beef: 55 square feet

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses:1,000 per year

 

The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to less than once a week: 3.8 times

For women who eat eggs daily compared to once a week: 2.8 times

For women who eat butter and cheese 2-4 times a week: 3.25 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meat, cheese, eggs and milk daily vs. sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times.

 

The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four years in medical school: 2.5 hours

Most common cause of death in the U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in the U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 percent

Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat: 15 percent

Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat, dairy or eggs: 4 percent

Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of meat, dairy and eggs by 10 percent: 9 percent

Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption by 50 percent: 45 percent

Amount you reduce risk if you eliminate meat, dairy and eggs from your diet: 90 percent

Average cholesterol level of people eating meat-centered-diet: 210 mg/dl

Chance of dying from heart disease if you are male and your blood cholesterol level is 210 mg/dl: greater than 50 percent

 

The Natural Resources Argument

User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.: livestock production

Amount of water used in production of the average cow: sufficient to float a destroyer

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of California beef: 5,000

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Calories of fossil fuel expended to get 1 calorie of protein from beef: 78

To get 1 calorie of protein from soybeans: 2

Percentage of all raw materials (base products of farming, forestry and mining, including fossil fuels) consumed by U.S. that is devoted to the production of livestock: 33

Percentage of all raw materials consumed by the U.S. needed to produce a complete vegetarian diet: 2

 

The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support

 

The Pesticide Argument

Common belief: U.S. Department of Agriculture protects our health through meat inspection

Reality: fewer than 1 out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues

Percentage of U.S. mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 99

Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8

Contamination of breast milk, due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products, found in meat-eating mothers vs. non-meat eating mothers: 35 times higher

Amount of Dieldrin ingested by the average breast-fed American infant: 9 times the permissible level

 

The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the U.S.: 660,000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job-injury in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

 

Does this mean you don't own leather goods and never purchase them either? Because if you do I laugh at you as you are just another hypocrate

[HeavenOrHell]

I don't buy/wear leather.

Can't speak for the OP, haven't got time to read back through and see if he's a dietary vegan or leads a 100% vegan lifestyle.

Dietary vegans will most likely buy leather.

Not sure what the point of your post was.

 

 

Does this mean you don't own leather goods and never purchase them either? Because if you do I laugh at you as you are just another hypocrate

[brokenTom]

Yeah, if you can't stop from eating animal products, a relatively easy thing to do is stop buying animal-made products.

 

There are plenty of boots, jackets, belts, clothes, blankets, pillows, couches, car seats, etc... all made without the help of our furry friends.

 

They aren't typically too different in performance either, some things like the newer faux leathers are better, don't require as much maintenance or wear as much over time.

[Emilia]

I don't buy/wear leather.

Can't speak for the OP, haven't got time to read back through and see if he's a dietary vegan or leads a 100% vegan lifestyle.

Dietary vegans will most likely buy leather.

Not sure what the point of your post was.

 

That you are the first vegan/vegetarian (can't remember which) who doesn't buy leather/animal product goods ever. I ask every veggie I know personally - many are vegetarians because of some guilt complex - and they buy animal products, they also get defensive about it. I don't see the difference between eating animals or wearing them.

 

I still don't think it's natural to have this much reverence towards animals and to have this much trouble relating to our very primal instincts (such as seeing animals as prey and eating them) but at least you are consistent.

[123321]

That you are the first vegan/vegetarian (can't remember which) who doesn't buy leather/animal product goods ever.

 

I've known a few vegans who claimed this, but most have carved out little personal exemptions, much like other religious people do in their faith of choice. Some are honest and well informed and say "I am a strict vegetarian" or "I eat a vegan diet" but a lot just claim to be vegan without any idea what it means. I think it's viewed as trendy and edgy in some circles.

[Emilia]

I think it's viewed as trendy and edgy in some circles.

 

Yes, especially in large cities where people are removed from the natural environment completely. I know someone who dislikes touching the meat he cooks and he can only eat chicken, nothing else that's coloured more red. We walked past a lorry that was full of pig carcasses and he found it difficult to deal with that. The mind boggles.

 

Plus there are studies about distress that plants experience too so maybe people should be put on drips or something to make sure they don't upset carrots.

[123321]

Yes, especially in large cities where people are removed from the natural environment completely.

 

I was raised on a small farm, but I never liked seeing the animals die. This is why I gave up hunting even though I loved the time with my family. I don't have any moral issues with it, I just don't like to see it.

[brokenTom]

Plus there are studies about distress that plants experience too so maybe people should be put on drips or something to make sure they don't upset carrots.

oh this reminded me of a song...

"Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?"

And the angel said unto me,

"These are the cries of the carrots,

the cries of the carrots.

You see, reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day

and to them it is the holocaust."

And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat

like the tears of one millions terrified brothers

and roared,

"Hear me now,

I have seen the light,

they have a consciousness,

they have a life,

they have a soul.

damn you!

let the rabbits wear glasses,

save our brothers...can I get an amen?

can I get a hallelujah? thank you, Jesus.

[HeavenOrHell]

Carnivores love bringing up the 'but vegetables feel pain/distress' argument knowing full well it is nowhere near the same as killing or eating an animal.

 

Why should it bother you that some people are vegetarian or vegan, it needn't affect you. There's just no need for you to make comments designed to belittle vegetarians or vegans.

 

 

Yes, especially in large cities where people are removed from the natural environment completely. I know someone who dislikes touching the meat he cooks and he can only eat chicken, nothing else that's coloured more red. We walked past a lorry that was full of pig carcasses and he found it difficult to deal with that. The mind boggles.

 

Plus there are studies about distress that plants experience too so maybe people should be put on drips or something to make sure they don't upset carrots.

[HeavenOrHell]

I've not come across many, if any, vegans, out of the hundreds of contacts I have IRL and online who don't actually know what being vegan means.

 

I agree it's viewed as trendy to some people, mostly teenagers who are doing it to look cool. It will be a passing phase to them. But they are in the minority.

 

 

I've known a few vegans who claimed this, but most have carved out little personal exemptions, much like other religious people do in their faith of choice. Some are honest and well informed and say "I am a strict vegetarian" or "I eat a vegan diet" but a lot just claim to be vegan without any idea what it means. I think it's viewed as trendy and edgy in some circles.

[HeavenOrHell]

The definition of vegetarian doesn't necessarily mean not wearing leather, vegetarians eat milk, eggs, cheese, and leather is no worse than any of those industries.

 

People who say they're vegan but buy leather, aren't by definition, 'vegan'.

 

I dont think it's up to anyone to say to me, or anyone else, what is natural and what isn't. Some people say being gay isn't 'natural', I don't agree. I don't think it has anything to do with what is or isn't natural. It's not necessarily for me to live my life causing suffering to animals, so I choose not to, I'm lucky enough to live in a country where I have choices, some people in some countries have to eat meat/dairy to survive. I don't.

 

 

That you are the first vegan/vegetarian (can't remember which) who doesn't buy leather/animal product goods ever. I ask every veggie I know personally - many are vegetarians because of some guilt complex - and they buy animal products, they also get defensive about it. I don't see the difference between eating animals or wearing them.

 

I still don't think it's natural to have this much reverence towards animals and to have this much trouble relating to our very primal instincts (such as seeing animals as prey and eating them) but at least you are consistent.

[HeavenOrHell]

I have problems with the dairy industry, hence being vegan

 

 

I grew up on a farm, and milking cows won me a lot of arm-wrestling contests as a young man. I have no problems with the "ethical issues" around eating cheese.