HeavenOrHell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I know plenty of (true) vegans, (ie vegan in every way not just dietary), but there are vegetarians who call them selves 'vegetarian' even though they eat fish or chicken, ie they're *not* vegetarian I don't think I've come across anyone who calls themselves vegan or dietary vegan even though they might have cow's milk now and again for example, or any vegans who still wear leather or wool for example, (ie they're not vegan), but I'm sure they're out there! Oh actually some people call themselves vegan and they still eat honey. Yeah 'what they mean by vegan' is a meaningless sentence, vegan means vegan! The only exception is when they mean they are just vegan by diet and nothing else, ie not vegan for ethical/animal welfare reasons but for themselves. Amazingly I've had people argue that somehow "what they mean by vegan" actually meant anything. When I say watermelon I mean a small German car. I strongly suspect you are in the minority and that most "vegans" are in fact strict vegetarians or people who "follow a vegan diet". Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I know plenty of (true) vegans, (ie vegan in every way not just dietary), but there are vegetarians who call them selves 'vegetarian' even though they eat fish or chicken, ie they're *not* vegetarian I don't think I've come across anyone who calls themselves vegan or dietary vegan even though they might have cow's milk now and again for example, or any vegans who still wear leather or wool for example, (ie they're not vegan), but I'm sure they're out there! Oh actually some people call themselves vegan and they still eat honey. Yeah 'what they mean by vegan' is a meaningless sentence, vegan means vegan! The only exception is when they mean they are just vegan by diet and nothing else, ie not vegan for ethical/animal welfare reasons but for themselves. I've known a few. One woman who insisted she was a vegan even though she was wearing leather shoes "because nothing else is as good", what a laugh. Several who said carelessly "I'm vegan" but when I questioned them quickly amended it to "I almost follow a vegan diet" without any apparent understanding that they'd been abusing a word that means a lot to the people who own it. Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh the shame I'm feeling. I eat honey. Please forgive me. I have turned in my vegan card. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh the shame I'm feeling. I eat honey. Please forgive me. I have turned in my vegan card. Personally I think the ideological stand that vegans take is silly, but eating a meat free or reduced meat diet is a brilliant idea. Link to post Share on other sites
brokenTom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If you are into cheese, I've found Daiya to be the best. It's now sold in supermarkets, maybe one near you. Yeah, my point wasn't that you can't eat junk food, that would be preposterous. Just pointing out it can be easy to get sucked into that lifestyle and get sick. My close friend was like that and developed a disease after becoming vegan and I truly believe that had something to do with it. You can be perfectly healthy as a vegan and eat sweets too, it's all about balance. Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products.If you are merely practicing the diet aspect of it, you might want to call yourself a Dietary Vegan, especially around other vegans. Link to post Share on other sites
brokenTom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Personally I think the ideological stand that vegans take is silly I think it's one of the most noble things, as long as they aren't all stuck-up about it, which IME has never been the case with vegans I've met. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Well, thanks, I appreciate your lack of respect. Personally I think the ideological stand that vegans take is silly, but eating a meat free or reduced meat diet is a brilliant idea. Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yes, self righteous vegans are annoying, I've never preached to anyone and never will. I think it's one of the most noble things, as long as they aren't all stuck-up about it, which IME has never been the case with vegans I've met. Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 eh - no agenda, just like the way the healthy food makes me feel. *The almost vegan if it weren't for the damn honey. I know, it only counts in horseshoes. Link to post Share on other sites
brokenTom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 *The almost vegan if it weren't for the damn honey. Have you tried Agave Nectar? Probably in the organic section. Not quite as thick or sticky, but IME closer to honey then corn or maple syrup. Mixed with coconut milk and vanilla and it can make some awesomely easy homemade ice cream. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Have you tried Agave Nectar? Probably in the organic section. Not quite as thick or sticky, but IME closer to honey then corn or maple syrup. Mixed with coconut milk and vanilla and it can make some awesomely easy homemade ice cream. Copy cat you are! I thought that was my orginal recipe! Vanilla Almond Milk with frozen bananas, agave nectar (the dark is my favorite) and vanilla. Toss it in the blender. I have to use honey in my raw peanut butter balls. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think it's one of the most noble things, as long as they aren't all stuck-up about it, which IME has never been the case with vegans I've met. I've known some very militant vegans and I have no time for that, and I appreciate the no-cruelty aspects of abstaining from meat. Where we part company is where they consider perfectly harmless animal husbandry "slavery". Refusing to wear wool or silk for instance places them in the realm of fanatics. Well, thanks, I appreciate your lack of respect. I'm talking about the militant ones I was first exposed to. For instance, one who felt she couldn't eat foods cooked in an oven that had been used in non-vegan cooking. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FeelingLonely98 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Actual vegans exist but they are a lot less common than people who "eat a vegan diet", which is usually code-speak for strict vegetarians. "strict vegetarians" can eat egg and dairy products. A "vegan diet" excludes these food products. Vegan = a 100% plant based diet. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FeelingLonely98 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yes, self righteous vegans are annoying, I've never preached to anyone and never will. I've asked others to ignore my diet and to not even discuss it. In the beginning I'd hear comments like "Oh, I guess you can't go with us" (to a certain restaurant), or "you can't eat this", or "sorry I'm eatting this" (non-vegan food item). It is something I am doing as a choice. I respect their choice to eat animals and animal products. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 As I'm vegan you must have known it would be insulting to use the word 'fanatics'. To me, militant means preaching to others, and coming across as self righteous. Some vegans won't want to use ovens where dead animals have been, which is fair enough, I see that as personal preference, it doesn't=someone being self righteous or preachy. I've known some very militant vegans and I have no time for that, and I appreciate the no-cruelty aspects of abstaining from meat. Where we part company is where they consider perfectly harmless animal husbandry "slavery". Refusing to wear wool or silk for instance places them in the realm of fanatics. I'm talking about the militant ones I was first exposed to. For instance, one who felt she couldn't eat foods cooked in an oven that had been used in non-vegan cooking. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 As I'm vegan you must have known it would be insulting to use the word 'fanatics'. If you truly believe that removing the heavy coat from a sheep at the start of warm weather is cruel, or if you have an issue with raising and cultivating silk from insects, well then I guess you can feel insulted, otherwise I'm not talking about you. Bee-keepers really do care for their bees, it's not as if they go steal honey from wild bees, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Yes, I find boiling silkworms cruel and would rather not be part of it, I don't *need* silk. >If the adult moth were allowed to emerge from the cocoon naturally, it would secrete an alkali, which would eat through the cocoon. Therefore the silkworms are killed by heat to preserve the silk cocoon,4 by immersion in boiling water, steaming or drying in an oven. Only enough adult moths are allowed to emerge to ensure the continuation of the species.< And the reasons I don't buy wool; Sheep and wool - The Vegan Society Some of the reasons I don't eat honey; >When beekeepers handle combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to make bees dizzy and easier to handle. Special devices are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter their hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or thrown out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Queen bees have their wings clipped to prevent them from flying off. When it is not profitable to keep bees through the winter they are killed. One way is by dousing the hive with petroleum, then burning it. Other times they are simply left to starve to death, after the honey is taken. Hives are burned when there is a disease outbreak. Some bees are killed because they eat honey but do not do enough work.< Vegans don't use animals in any way for their own gain. Hope that makes things clearer If you truly believe that removing the heavy coat from a sheep at the start of warm weather is cruel, or if you have an issue with raising and cultivating silk from insects, well then I guess you can feel insulted, otherwise I'm not talking about you. Bee-keepers really do care for their bees, it's not as if they go steal honey from wild bees, etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I was vegan for 3 months and became ill as a result. That was back in the 90s and I didn't really know what to or how to make decent vegan food. I don't believe a vegan diet is for everyone, even with a better diet than the one I had. I'm a big fan of the cookbook Less Meat More Veg which suits me better, remaining an omnivore, but with a lot more vegetables and making good use of all the meat one buys. Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think anyone who doesn't have a balanced diet, whether they're vegan or omnivore, they're likely to become ill/not be very healthy. Fair enough if you'd had a balanced, healthy diet when you were vegan and were still ill, then it wouldn't be right for you, but it doesn't give an accurate 'result' if you knew you weren't eating a balanced diet. Being vegan in the 90's wasn't as easy as it is now, I was vegan in the 80's and that was far from easy But I find it very easy now with the internet. But each to their own, whatever works best for you I was vegan for 3 months and became ill as a result. That was back in the 90s and I didn't really know what to or how to make decent vegan food. I don't believe a vegan diet is for everyone, even with a better diet than the one I had. I'm a big fan of the cookbook Less Meat More Veg which suits me better, remaining an omnivore, but with a lot more vegetables and making good use of all the meat one buys. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 And the reasons I don't buy wool It's possible to have wool without mutton, I know farmers who do it, as for the rest, I kill bugs without remorse. They're bugs. Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 You clearly didn't read the article properly, believe what you like, I prefer to go with the facts. And kill bugs if it makes you happy. It's possible to have wool without mutton, I know farmers who do it, as for the rest, I kill bugs without remorse. They're bugs. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think anyone who doesn't have a balanced diet, whether they're vegan or omnivore, they're likely to become ill/not be very healthy. Fair enough if you'd had a balanced, healthy diet when you were vegan and were still ill, then it wouldn't be right for you, but it doesn't give an accurate 'result' if you knew you weren't eating a balanced diet. Being vegan in the 90's wasn't as easy as it is now, I was vegan in the 80's and that was far from easy But I find it very easy now with the internet. But each to their own, whatever works best for you Sure, I agree that an unbalanced diet leads to ill-health, but that's just a truism: It can only be balanced if it doesn't lead to ill-health. Regards whether it is feasible for a vegan diet to be balanced for everyone, I don't believe it can. It's been a while since I looked into it, but seeing yoga instructors and other very health-conscious people opting back into an omnivore diet for health reasons and after much thought, I feel my suspicions are confirmed. It can be healthy for many people, but not all. Season to taste. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FeelingLonely98 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 I was vegan for 3 months and became ill as a result. That was back in the 90s and I didn't really know what to or how to make decent vegan food. I don't believe a vegan diet is for everyone, even with a better diet than the one I had. You did it wrong or got sick from something that had nothing to do with a vegan diet. AND, I believe a vegan diet CAN be for everyone if they do it right. Doctors will tell you differently because if everyone in the USA ate a 100% plant based diet then 80% of health care needs/costs would go away. That's a lot of doctors that are not needed! Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) You did it wrong or got sick from something that had nothing to do with a vegan diet. I said as much myself, but thanks for the authoritative advice! AND, I believe a vegan diet CAN be for everyone if they do it right. Doctors will tell you differently because if everyone in the USA ate a 100% plant based diet then 80% of health care needs/costs would go away. That's a lot of doctors that are not needed! I don't live in the USA. Even if I did, people still get ill, just later in life, if they live a healthy life. Geriatric medicine is where it's at these days. But yes, I suppose if all the doctors in the USA collaborated and none of them were, say, vegans or vegetarians, or had a conscience, then they could all lie to everyone to save their own careers. Isn't it weird how no vegetarians or vegans, or people with moral fortitude, become doctors? Seems, well, implausible to me. I found from a quick Google: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/fresh/vegan-optimal-1a.shtml Plenty of food for thought. Edited April 3, 2012 by betterdeal Link to post Share on other sites
HeavenOrHell Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm not really taking your attempt at veganism seriously because of this >that was back in the 90s and I didn't really know what to or how to make decent vegan food< A meat eater would become ill too if they weren't eating decent meals. You might not have become ill if you'd eaten healthily. I've seen no evidence whatsoever that yoga instructors and health conscious people are becoming omnivores, on the contrary, from what I've seen more people are becoming veggie. I think anyone can be vegan if they eat correctly, unless they already have some health problem which makes it impossible, although I'm not sure what those health problems might be. Sure, I agree that an unbalanced diet leads to ill-health, but that's just a truism: It can only be balanced if it doesn't lead to ill-health. Regards whether it is feasible for a vegan diet to be balanced for everyone, I don't believe it can. It's been a while since I looked into it, but seeing yoga instructors and other very health-conscious people opting back into an omnivore diet for health reasons and after much thought, I feel my suspicions are confirmed. It can be healthy for many people, but not all. Season to taste. Link to post Share on other sites
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