Kidd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Not so sure about exposing to her parents. Make sure it's not a revenge thing for you. The "hit list" comment didn't sound too warm and fuzzy. Exposure to the other spouse helps shut down the affair and it's fair to the other spouse. What is your motivation around telling her parents? As for the sensei, not my area of expertise but I would suggest that she doesn't have to give up martial arts, just this one if it is going to require any kind of contact (or potential contact) with the OM. That's a boundary you shouldn't relinquish. Have her find another martial art at a different dojo. She can master it and consider this particular area of expertise to have been sacrificed for her marriage as a consequence of her actions. Even after all my W has done to me, I never exposed to her workplace (her affair was with her boss). She has worked there her entire adult life. It means a lot to her. I suppose I would be "justified" and many insisted upon it. I'm glad I didn't. It's a very large company and the OM transferred as a result of my ultimatum that one of them leave. Even today I wouldn't take away my wife's career. Not sure you should take away your Ws art either since it means so much. But her sacrifice should be to change gears enough to protect you and help you heal. If she won't, she can stay but you won't be staying with her. Set a clear boundary, stick with it, and still care for your W if you want to reconcile. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 You two need to get to marriage counselling and do this together and apart, but use the same person. Say goodbye to the therapist you have now since they don't specialize in marriage counseling. The advice to NOT allow you to tell MM's wife about the affair is wrong. His wife deserves to know so she can make a decision to forgive him and work through the marriage or divorce. Also, it's another way of totally ending the affair. Four eyes are better than two. Have they been in contact through phones or email? You could contact exMM and let him know that he has a choice, either HE tells his wife about the affair or you will. Imagine if your wife hadn't had that miscarriage? Where would things be at now? Thx, it's a long thread so I'll fill you in that I did contact the OMW. I discussed it with my therapist first as well, and she was mainly concerned that I not act out of vengeance but that I do things to help, not harm. She is fairly specialized in marriage, she's a family counselor is probably the best way to put it. Oh and I did contact the OM first, asking him to tell, he refused. I also told me W to tell the OM to tell, she ignored me....so yeah I gave the OMW a packet with a vague cover letter. What does exMM stand for? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 MM - Married man. OM is a single guy with a married wife (MW). ex obviously is ex.. Good that she knows, now she can decide her own fate instead of not knowing the type of person she's married to. Link to post Share on other sites
Kidd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Wow man that sucks' date=' I'm sorry things worked out that way =( I'm really hesitant to direct her to the online forums. Ugh she'd probably go bananas if she discovered this thread. She may at some point...Hi there! [/quote'] Yeah, it has sucked. But I will be ok. Hell, I am ok. The next chapter in my life has started. I'm glad that although I was in hell, I didn't decide to stay there. I think it's also key for you to get to a point where you will be ok either way as well. It's very hard not to be driven by fear. Telling the OMW was a big step. It's very likely that the OM will call your W and tell her that her damned husband told on him. I hope your W tells you about that call, text, or email. If she doesn't or worse, if she gets pissed that you "ruined someone else's family" then it will be clear that she's more interested in protecting the OM than in helping her H heal. I hope you're monitoring her communications at this point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Kidd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The OMW is probably processing how to move forward. Can't see how she wouldn't have opened it. When I exposed to the OMW, she was initially just shocked and didn't much connect with me. After a week, she called and was very grateful for the info. Albeit briefly, she helped with info on her husband's whereabouts and so forth while I was out of town and paranoid. Now that my W and I are divorcing, I may contact her again so she can be on the lookout for a resumption of the affair. Again, she just deserves the info. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 The OMW is probably processing how to move forward. Can't see how she wouldn't have opened it. When I exposed to the OMW, she was initially just shocked and didn't much connect with me. After a week, she called and was very grateful for the info. Albeit briefly, she helped with info on her husband's whereabouts and so forth while I was out of town and paranoid. Now that my W and I are divorcing, I may contact her again so she can be on the lookout for a resumption of the affair. Again, she just deserves the info. I dunno, I've heard about a lot of varied reactions depending on the person. I'm not making any predictions ^^ She might love me for it, she might hate me for it. I'm glad it worked out in your case, it helped me move forward with what I did. Over on SI someone posted that they have been the OMW and the other BS had not told, and she hated them for it. So that was reaffirming as well. I browsed around and learned in her case, the other BS actually got a D and the A continued for another year without her knowledge. That really is F-ed up.... I think I would have told the other BS without even visiting here. Anyway, we'll see. I'm watching my email accounts...and phones. I gave her 6 different ways to contact me ^^ Link to post Share on other sites
jnj express Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I think you are wasting your time with the sensei---You are asking him to take sides, in a situation that is not his at all, and you are possibly asking him to lose a client, and these kinds of things may get back to his other patrons------This is your/your wife's problem to deal with. The martial arts dojo is there, for all to use---if some of the students lose their morales, and can't handle what goes with the use of the facilities, properly, it is their problem, and their problem alone. You and your wife need to figure out what to do, and do it. Also if there is no actual physical contact with others needed, why can't your wife train at home???????----I am sure she can get her teacher to help her with what is needed to perform her kata's 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Kidd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I dunno' date=' I've heard about a lot of varied reactions depending on the person. I'm not making any predictions ^^ She might love me for it, she might hate me for it. I'm glad it worked out in your case, it helped me move forward with what I did. Over on SI someone posted that they have been the OMW and the other BS had not told, and she hated them for it. So that was reaffirming as well. I browsed around and learned in her case, the other BS actually got a D and the A continued for another year without her knowledge. That really is F-ed up.... I think I would have told the other BS without even visiting here. Anyway, we'll see. I'm watching my email accounts...and phones. I gave her 6 different ways to contact me ^^[/quote'] I guess you inspired me. I contact my own OMW today and told her of my impending D. She has also been trying to R and replied that she wants details. It feels pretty crappy but she deserves the truth and I know it's the right thing to tell her. What a tangled web. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 I guess you inspired me. I contact my own OMW today and told her of my impending D. She has also been trying to R and replied that she wants details. It feels pretty crappy but she deserves the truth and I know it's the right thing to tell her. What a tangled web. Good for you man. At least yours knew at all from your previous contact. I think you are wasting your time with the sensei---You are asking him to take sides, in a situation that is not his at all, and you are possibly asking him to lose a client, and these kinds of things may get back to his other patrons------This is your/your wife's problem to deal with. The martial arts dojo is there, for all to use---if some of the students lose their morales, and can't handle what goes with the use of the facilities, properly, it is their problem, and their problem alone. You and your wife need to figure out what to do, and do it. Also if there is no actual physical contact with others needed, why can't your wife train at home???????----I am sure she can get her teacher to help her with what is needed to perform her kata's Thanks, I appreciate opinions here, because I'm pretty unsure of the right course here. This is closer to what my counselor said, 'cept you added the money part which is good point. She's also a favored student, well they both are . Heh, you know something about the sport, she does have books and all the gear ^^ Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I will repeat that it is the sensei's responsibility to do something and ensure a safe environment. Absolutely. Yep he may do nothing, but in all likelihood one will be asked to leave. As for the dojo being a sexual, testosterone filled place..... Of course it is, as as are many other places where there is co-ed participation and also socialization. No easy answers, but this is her passion and you can't rip it from her, but the sensei for his business and reputation certainly can. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Steen719 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I think you are wasting your time with the sensei---You are asking him to take sides, in a situation that is not his at all, and you are possibly asking him to lose a client, and these kinds of things may get back to his other patrons------This is your/your wife's problem to deal with. The martial arts dojo is there, for all to use---if some of the students lose their morales, and can't handle what goes with the use of the facilities, properly, it is their problem, and their problem alone. IMHO, I disagree. Having been in martial arts for several years and owning a school, I can tell you that at the least, the 2 students would have to talk to the sensei and one or both might be asked to leave. The issue should be, however, that she should be walking through glass, giving up her martial arts class, making every effort to be with the man she loves. If she is not doing that, I don't know how reconciliation can occur, anyway. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Steen719 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 My recent story (brief version)... On Dec 26, I discovered an internet blog where my W described in graphic detail her first encounter with the OM, on my couch. She reveled in the fact that her H would never know what had happened there. I had spent 7 or so months trying to forgive and R only to be devastated by TT (trickle-truth). I left work, went to a bar, got hammered, returned home, dragged the couch into the backyard, set it ablaze, returned to the house and (allegedly) threw my W out the front door. Welcome to jail. By the time I got out the next day, my wife petitioned the court to keep me away from her, my house, etc.. Haven't be allowed home since or to contact my W. I found out from a neighbor that my W was filing for divorce. I got papers last week and met with my D attorney just yesterday. I defended my W vigorously, just as you are doing. The lies are what ultimately killed the M. My latest reaction certainly didn't help. I hope your situation is different. I am still grieving the loss but I have reached acceptance. I have my own apartment now and my kids will starts having overnights with me next week. It's been brutal. As for money, it will come from somewhere. I have lost my marriage, kids, house, and everything I've acquired in life. My retirement savings is getting hit hard starting my life over but better days are coming. Don't let it be a factor. Find out which W you have today. This is not a race, by the way. You took a big step yesterday. You're doing well. And it's ok to love your W for who she is today. For your sake, I hope she can fix herself. The onus is on her. I suggest she read, "How Can I Help My Spouse Heal From My Affair." As well, I recommend you ask her to read and post on the Wayward forum on the other site daily. The waywards there can be absolutely remarkable in helping her identify what to do. It can be troublesome for her to read your posts there so perhaps LS can be your outlet and SI can be hers. Good luck and keep focusing on yourself. Keep your options open. And get a handle on your anger. The orange jumpsuit makes quite an impression (especially since they didn't let me wear underwear under than damn thing). little t/j Kidd...sorry, I was hoping it might work out for you. I have been wondering. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 If she is a way for the weekend there is nothing stopping her from being with him right now. Do you have an ability to verify his and her whereabouts on a real-time basis? Just because she told you she was going some place wouldn't stop him from traveling there to meet up with her. It's not uncommon for cheaters to have these kind of secret rendezvous--it makes it more illicit and exciting. I've addressed this several times already, go back through the posts ^^ And thanks for the continuing debate on the sensei thing. I'm following both sides of the argument and can see logic with both. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 No you didn't. Ok, don't then. I'm done with that topic. No questions for me there. On the sensei thing, just a note that I'm probably more on the telling side because personal experience has told me it works. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Here's a cutnpaste from page 6: This next thing isn't really a positive...but just a point for certain someone who can't seem to let go of the fact that my wife is out of town with my daughter at my sister in law's house.... She went there for a break. She's exhausted. She actually was physically ill from this whole thing for a while. I talk to my daughter and wife every night. I can hear my sister in law in the background. My sister in law knows about the affair and is for NC with the OM. She was the first person to tell me that! They are 6 hours away. I work at the same company as the OM, I can actually see if he is active at his desk because of the IM software chained throughout the company. She's not seeing the OM or even trying to. I'm SUPER sure of this. So SHUT UP ABOUT IT :D:D Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Exposure is to be done for one of two reasons: to STOP an active affair, or to create Extra Precautions against the affair flairing back up again. If telling the sensei will somehow get them separated and allow her to still compete, then it is worth telling him. If it won't have any effect, then telling is just for revenge. Link to post Share on other sites
Kidd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 little t/j Kidd...sorry, I was hoping it might work out for you. I have been wondering. Amazing to do have done so much work on R just to have it snuffed out. To some extent, it's nice to have the drama come to an end. Death by a thousand cuts, as they say. It was killing me. But thanks for the sympathies. I did love her and I tried. Moving on... End t/j. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 How can revealing the truth ever be characterized as "revenge"? The OP isn't responsible for how the sensei reacts, or doesn't react, to the truth. The idea of "revenge" focuses mostly on the intent and mindset of the person telling the truth; this is useful because it is a kind of a crude measure of the likelihood of a beneficial, forward-moving outcome for the truth-teller. So if the truth-teller is focused mostly on causing harm, getting a swing in, spreading the pain around, that can be looked at as primarily a "revenge" motivation, and it correlates pretty well with a truth-teller who isn't healing and moving forward, but who is just lashing out. On the other hand, if one is telling the truth as a means to move a situation forward, resolving an impasse, if he or she truly believes that the recipient deserves to know and may be better off for hearing the truth, this can be seen as a different motivation than revenge, and I believe it correlates with someone who is trying to take constructive actions to move a situation (or just one's life) in a forward, possibly healing, direction. Like forgiveness, I see the concept of 'revenge' primarily as it relates to the motivation of the truth-teller. Yes, it certainly relates to the effect on the recipient and others involved in the situation, but the thing that defines revenge for me is what is in the heart of the truth-teller. So yes, the "truth" can be used for revenge. Actually, the fact that something "is the truth" is sometimes used as cover for taking revenge, when motives are actually darker than just literally telling the truth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Since your W was the one involved in her A - and class(which obviously denotes honor) - SHE should be the one to tell her instructor of HER behavior (owning it) and then kindly explain it is the reason SHE chooses to discontinue with it - since she hasn't shown evidence of the purpose of her hobby (honor). It IS hers to admit and hers to end it. You being there when she delivers the info is a good idea as well. This way - she also carries out an amends (setting things right) by quitting and gives her MOM the opportunity to continue without her involved. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 And for all of you debating "truth" - truth is best shown by presenting evidence. Evidence doesn't lie. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 IMHO, I disagree. Having been in martial arts for several years and owning a school, I can tell you that at the least, the 2 students would have to talk to the sensei and one or both might be asked to leave. The issue should be, however, that she should be walking through glass, giving up her martial arts class, making every effort to be with the man she loves. If she is not doing that, I don't know how reconciliation can occur, anyway. Again giving it up may create resentment, however one or both being forced to quit the dojo is a start. If they want to continue the affair is there really nything one can do at this point? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ok I think I've made a decision on the sensei thing...which I should have seen earlier. I'm demanding she quit her MA at this dojo altogether or we D. So what difference does it make for our marriage? None. It does make a difference if we D though, and ruins things for her afterwards. That feels like vengeance. I'm not going to tell her sensei, The OMW knows, and I can be in communication with her if we D. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ok I think I've made a decision on the sensei thing...which I should have seen earlier. I'm demanding she quit her MA at this dojo altogether or we D. So what difference does it make for our marriage? None. It does make a difference if we D though' date=' and ruins things for her afterwards. That feels like vengeance. I'm not going to tell her sensei, The OMW knows, and I can be in communication with her if we D.[/quote'] Now that's a boundary I support! Good for you having a requirement for her! Her decision should tell you everything... Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ok I think I've made a decision on the sensei thing...which I should have seen earlier. I'm demanding she quit her MA at this dojo altogether or we D. So what difference does it make for our marriage? None. It does make a difference if we D though' date=' and ruins things for her afterwards. That feels like vengeance. I'm not going to tell her sensei, The OMW knows, and I can be in communication with her if we D.[/quote'] I think that is wise, though as said maybe to adjust my reasoning, I'd talk to the sensei lone. Point is the alternating days was a crock and frankly I expect the sensei would tell the lower ranked member to leave. I always look for an out, and here it was the sensei who I'd talk to in confidence. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It's all about her. She never really talks about the husband's feelings. Also, note the bolded part of the first email, she can't bring herself to say: "I love you." I love parts of you deeply? I care for you deeply no matter what? No matter even if I keep cheating...no matter even if I divorce you...I'll still care for you...and even though I don't actually love you, I love parts of you....the credit card part....the bank account part.... That's the concern I had with her written words too... It was all about HER! And her poor feelings! Pity party = please feel sorry for me! Nothing about who she harmed - nothing in owning it as her responsibility to FIX it for YOU! Nothing remorseful to me... Only looks like she was sorry she got caught. Just saying! Link to post Share on other sites
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