Boundary setting question

[LifesontheUp]

Hello Ninja,

 

Got to say first of all how sorry I am that you are going through this. Been there a long time ago, without the kids and it really does suck

 

I was just wondering if you and your wife have got to the bottom of why she has done this, not just this time, but the time before too?

 

I'm puzzled that having been through it once, she has done it again, yet I really don't see the remorse I would expect to see from her. Why isn't she putting her marriage over her hobby? Have you discussed this?

[2sunny]

As long as she thinks SHE'S the victim - there will be no healing. She needs to get that straight! SHE caused it - she's the perpetrator of this scene. She made you the victim with HER choices - by lying and cheating! It takes a great amount of thought and energy to cheat - and then the lying and cover up - then the overcompensating so the BS doesn't notice what's REALLY happening. None of that is right. Especially IF she would have just told you "honey, I'm not feeling connected to you - I need your time and attention- mainly because I'm attracted to someone else and I don't intend to act on it - but I need to be honest - I NEED YOU to pay attention to me and make me feel loved and special."

 

 

 

IF she doesn't do the work to overcome her avoiding pattern and express her truth - you have nothing to work with - except her "old behavior" - and you KNOW what her old behavior will get you, don't you? Lying to avoid conflict? What a farce! She's created the conflict! And she's created it by lying too!

 

So how can she justify any of those as traits that are reasonable and that work in any relationship - they don't!

 

She's got to change! Change everything! If she doesn't find out WHY she cheated - and change what that is - deep inside of her broken self- then she hasn't done the work to bring to you - her healthy self.

 

Stick to a solid healthy boundary! She's got work to do! IF she's doing the hard work it takes - she will be completely miserable for a while - while she takes a good hard look at her broken self, realizes how broken she really is, and does enough work to NEVER BE that gal again! It usually looks like the cheater is MORTIFIED with the self - when they are taking a look at who they REALLY are - IF they are honest with the self.

 

IF she's not - then she may not even be capable of admitting to herself that SHE is a cheater. That HER actions created this mess. And she may not want to get honest enough to DO the hard work necessary to repair the damage she caused.

 

Ask her - is she willing to DO everything and anything to repair what has been broken? It is a yes or no answer!

[Ninja'sHusband]

Hello Ninja,

 

Got to say first of all how sorry I am that you are going through this. Been there a long time ago, without the kids and it really does suck

 

I was just wondering if you and your wife have got to the bottom of why she has done this, not just this time, but the time before too?

 

I'm puzzled that having been through it once, she has done it again, yet I really don't see the remorse I would expect to see from her. Why isn't she putting her marriage over her hobby? Have you discussed this?

 

Thx. The first time she thought the marriage was over, we were going through a really rocky time. She was also high on painkillers, her mind wasn't right. Seriously, she was on Vicadin. I truly believe they couldn't have had sex if they tried. She was crippled. She's not one for bjs either like someone said earlier...meh...won't say more on that sidenote. Anyway, I forgave her for that one pretty easy. It really wasn't a full blown affair, they didn't have sex, etc. Oh and she told me the day after it happened.

 

The why this time...ugh...well...we've talked about it a lot. She claimed it's a mixture of all the problems in our marriage up to that point...which sux and is not a very satisfying answer. It's better than "Oh I don't know, it's nothing with you". Sure, great not to not blame me, but I wanna know why so it won't happen again. There's a couple things I did in the past that made her feel like I wasn't always looking out for her best interest. She really holds those against me. We've been talking through those events.

 

I actually think a big factor was because she got to close to these people, and started talking about personal issues in her marriage with them. D-Day #2 was a Facebook conversation I found, where she talked extensively about problems in our M. That's a classic way to start an affair. She was gone to 3 different events the month it started. Events where she stayed out of town for more than a weekend. Disconnecting with me, connecting with other people. She drove to one event with the OM and back...huge mistake on my part letting that happen...ugh. But they were already starting the affair at that point so probably didn't matter. She claims my physical appearance had nothing to do with it..but at that time I was probably in the worst physical shape I've ever been in. About 1.5 months before D-Day #1 I started working out again...I've lost that weight now and am "normal" BMI again. She claims it wasn't a factor...but I still wonder. My counselor says women don't have affairs over that kinda thing, they do it for emotional reasons. Oh she's complained about my confidence level, which was related to my weight.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[2sunny]

First thing - when here are problems - sharing them with OTHERS instead of who you have the problem with is a direct betrayal to the intimacy and trust in that M. I certainly hope she isn't doing that with her sister this weekend. She can bring the problems to YOU - that way you two can work on them together! IF she's taking issues to others and NOT to you - how would she expect to work on them when she's just talking trash behind your back? That's not honesty - that's plotting to make someone look bad - and there's no honor in that.

 

Do you two have an agreement about THAT boundary?

 

And the hobby. It really needs to end. Since she's created such a toxic environment there - I'm aghast at why she would want to continue participating.

 

Makes me really wonder IF she has completely stopped seeing him.

 

Last but not least - she seems to show ( from what you typed) a big ego and sense of entitlement - IF she keeps that intact - she's VERY likely to cheat again... AND justify it!

 

So THAT definitely needs to change. But it's still hers to do. Humility would serve her well. Let her live with the embarrassment she created... It just might humble her. Which is what she needs.

 

Catering and cow towing to her just grows her sense of entitlement bigger.

 

She pooped where she sleeps... Let her sleep in her own poop for a long while - enough to clean up her own poop and make an effort to make it a pretty garden again! THAT is when you consider stepping back in.

 

You need room to let go of your anger and SHE needs room to do her necessary work. Create a space that works for you. One that promotes your healing.

 

Ya know, if and when YOU hurt and are in pain - she should be willing to listen to that! After all, it wouldn't be there if she hadnt done this. She should be listening to HOW she can validate YOUR feelings and fix that pain she caused. THAT would be the apology - in her actions instead of empty words.

[LifesontheUp]

Does she feel 'entitled' to have had her affair because of the problems in your marriage?

 

Or is she accepting that it was HER choice to cheat?

 

I'm still not sure about her clinging to her hobby. It is only a hobby and she can find others if she truly wants your marriage to work. Her focus should be you and her. I think even after this time, she is acting selfishly I'm afraid. I would want to know why she isn't putting your marriage first.

[Ninja'sHusband]

First thing - when here are problems - sharing them with OTHERS instead of who you have the problem with is a direct betrayal to the intimacy and trust in that M. I certainly hope she isn't doing that with her sister this weekend. She can bring the problems to YOU - that way you two can work on them together! IF she's taking issues to others and NOT to you - how would she expect to work on them when she's just talking trash behind your back? That's not honesty - that's plotting to make someone look bad - and there's no honor in that.

 

Do you two have an agreement about THAT boundary?

 

And the hobby. It really needs to end. Since she's created such a toxic environment there - I'm aghast at why she would want to continue participating.

 

Makes me really wonder IF she has completely stopped seeing him.

 

Last but not least - she seems to show ( from what you typed) a big ego and sense of entitlement - IF she keeps that intact - she's VERY likely to cheat again... AND justify it!

 

So THAT definitely needs to change. But it's still hers to do. Humility would serve her well. Let her live with the embarrassment she created... It just might humble her. Which is what she needs.

 

Catering and cow towing to her just grows her sense of entitlement bigger.

 

She pooped where she sleeps... Let her sleep in her own poop for a long while - enough to clean up her own poop and make an effort to make it a pretty garden again! THAT is when you consider stepping back in.

 

You need room to let go of your anger and SHE needs room to do her necessary work. Create a space that works for you. One that promotes your healing.

 

Ya know, if and when YOU hurt and are in pain - she should be willing to listen to that! After all, it wouldn't be there if she hadnt done this. She should be listening to HOW she can validate YOUR feelings and fix that pain she caused. THAT would be the apology - in her actions instead of empty words.

Yup I agree on the sharing being a violation, and I see it as a beginning to an affair. We do not have a specific agreement, our counselor actually mentioned this as an action item for the future. I'm at least comforted by the fact that her sister knows about the affair, and when I talked to her, was in serious disapproval... I called her sister for advice on this very same issue that I started this thread on. I did it shortly before we had started therapy. Her sister was the most benign person I could think of to tell, someone who wouldn't hate my W (I keep wanting to use real names...eek...I've already said sooo much more online than I meant to) and someone that my wife could talk to as well. I had read an article that recommended having such a person... Or therapist became that person. I really only talked to my sister in law that once...my W says she disclosed the full affair to her recently. She could be lying, but that would be awfully dumb of my W to lie about that, I can easily ask my sister in law what she knows at anytime. Anyway, my sister in law's answer was that my W absolutely shouldn't see the OM anymore. So that gave me the courage to at least ask for alternating nights.

 

2Sunny, you keep talking like I'm not making my W make a choice between her sport and me. Confusing2 me. I gave her a choice, she's got two weeks, what about that do you not understand?! Told her at least 3 times she gets to choose between me and the sport, no, 4 times including the email I sent tonight.

Does she feel 'entitled' to have had her affair because of the problems in your marriage?

 

Or is she accepting that it was HER choice to cheat?

 

My W doesn't feel entitled to her A. She knows it was wrong, she's admitted she royally F-ed up. I asked her to figure out why she did it. That was my 1st goal int therapsts office because I simply did not buy "oh everything's fine"...and neither did my sister in law. When she finally answers me, I can't blast back "STOP JUSTIFYING STOP JUSTIFYING"....I friggin asked her why. I want to know. Same for you guys, just because I say why doesn't mean I'm justifying. Figuring out why is *extremely important* to me. We both know it doesn't justify anything, but it might help prevent another one. 2Sunny, do you know why your WH had his As? Do you acknowledge that you had some part? Certainly it wasn't your fault he chose to do what he did..but he did it for a reason.

[Kidd]

Kudos. The OMW had a right to know the truth so she can make an informed decision about the rest of her life. She didn't deserve to live a lie, to be exposed to STDs, and remain faithful to some ********* for who knows how many years (maybe the rest of her life).

[jnj express]

Hey NH---If you read thread's on all of the infidelity sites, where the A., occurred at a job, you will also see that , the cheating spouse was made to leave the job, as part of NC, and R.---That is the basic premise here----her sport has become her job---so she has to make a choice---her mge., and family, or her sport---and it should have already been made.

 

If you do decide to end your mge.,---YOU DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME----in a D./Custody battle, you will get ripped apart for abandonment

 

Your wife also knows why she strayed, she may not wanna pull it out, but its there,---she knew every step of the way, she was risking her mge., and the well being of her flesh and blood child, and she still very happily went ahead, and cheated----the why, and her thinking must come to the surface, and be fixed, prior to your moving ahead in a R.

 

Some of the problem with your wife does stem from the sport she is in, she has physical contact with other men, and that alone can bring intense feelings toward sexual arousal, and satisfaction.

[Kidd]

No I don't think she is' date=' and it saddens and angers me...and makes me question whether I want to stay or not. But I don't believe in perfect magical love. It sucks ass, but I want this family to work. If I didn't have a 9 yr old daughter, yeah it would have been over already. You're right, I'm pretty pissed at being put in this situation and am on the verge of leaving because of it. The thought of me leaving regardless at this point has come up for me, before I came to this forum. Even my therapist today said that my W didn't seem like she was willing to bend over backwards and do what it takes to fix things... So yeah this is last call. If we survive my wife will have a lot of proving to do. We both do. If she were here in this discussion she'd be bringing up lots more of my transgressions, many of which she's right about. Takes 2 to break it, 2 to fix it. People don't cheat without a reason, from what I've learned no-one expects themselves to cheat. It's not some inborn character flaw. People cheat because they had unfulfilled needs..what's wrong is when they aren't honest with their spouse and tell them what's wrong (this is dealbreaker #2 for me...my W is making progress on this...slowlllyyy) So the spouse never gets to address it...and boom an affair happens, blindsides the BS cause they thought everything was roses. My part of this cycle is anger expression against someone who can't handle anger at all. My wife's problem is being victimized by even small amounts of anger and lying to avoid conflict.[/quote']

 

NH, I only stopped posting because I don't have the same amount of time to invest that 2Sunny does. To be perfectly honest, she drives me crazy as I am sure she is doing to you. It is just incessant and exhausting. What I will say in her defense is that she's almost always right (and that's a big deal).

 

I wanted to chime in for a moment and say that I was in a very similar place as you. I read SAA, HNHN (and about 15 other "expert" books). To a real extent, it gave me something to do rather than be devastated. As well, by focusing on my flaws and where I could improve, it allowed me to NOT have to look at the disgusting behavior of my W. I didn't want to look at and accept what a bad person she was because I desperately needed her. I would be the super hero and fix everything if necessary. But the fact is that you didn't break the M; she IS broken. The wayward forum on the other site is a great place to learn about this.

 

But what I really wanted to address is this issue about your anger. I fully agree that you need to get it under control (trust me on this one - I am paying a big price right now). But you must understand that the WS always wants the BS to "get over it, stop looking at the past, focus on the future" blah, blah, blah. You say your W is "afraid." I'm going to take a wild guess that you're not the typical domestic violence guy; I bet you have never raised a hand to your wife or child anytime, period. So where does this "fear" of hers come from? It is all subconscious bullcrap designed to get you to feel guilty for making her feel guilty so that you'll stop holding her accountable for her actions. The reality is that she needs to own her *****. But instead, she has you focused on some nonexistent character flaw of yours which feeds into your desperation to save the marriage. I have to tell you that saving the M needs to no longer be your highest priority. It sure sounds noble and it's consistent with what you always did before. I grasped onto the Harley books big time and told everyone here what a great W I had and that they didn't know her like I did. It is very hard to read your posts because I was exactly there 9 months ago. You're making all the same mistakes I made. No one here wishes harm to your M. You must accept that your wife dropped a nuclear bomb on it and you're walking around reassembling the family china. I happens. You want to feel that you and your W are the exception, that you will make it and she just made a mistake. I'm sorry friend, but it turns out that thinking you are the exception IS the rule. Personally, I hope you are able to successfully reconcile. It takes years, by the way. But the fact is that you cannot trust your wife right now to take care of you and the marriage. The goal is no longer to save the M, but to save yourself. The Harley books show you a path to save the M at all costs; it's not worth that. You would probably do ANYTHING to save the M right now. Your W knows that, the Harleys know that. The people here know that you need to protect yourself and you need to bevery cautious about trusting someone who has shown they cannot be trusted. Your wife did not slip, trip, and fall on the other man's d!ck repeatedly (and lie about it repeatedly) on accident. It takes conscious thought, effort, planning, and quite frankly, time management to make it happen.

 

Ultimately, yes, you will need to address one another's needs to have a successful M. I suspect reading 3 books on that has educated you enough. But saving this M now has little to do with you. It has to do with her. She has to own this, stop shifting the blame, stop running away, stop being defensive, stop being "afraid" and show real indefinite remorse for what she has done. You can't have faith in her to do that right now. Maybe she will; the data in front of you should be telling you it ain't likely. You can take your time to decide but you can't make her do it or "nice" her into it.

 

Alright enough for now. I'll try to catch back up with you tonight. Focus on taking care of yourself.

[YellowShark]

Bottom line. She cheated, became pregnant, lied about everything, now choses her hobby and contact with her lover (see: babydaddy) over you and your marriage. She is using you as a doormat and getting away with it because of your lack of backbone. That's not a diss of you Ninja'sHusband, that's her reality. She sees she can get away with repeated affairs because you lack the backbone to say "Here's your bags, go live somewhere else for a bit while I figure out if I still want this marriage." Meanwhile she is dragging you through emotional HELL, and she is continuing to see OM at the Dojo. A win win for her, a lose lose for you.

 

Doesn't sound like a great choice for an emotion and financial partner in life. Sometimes you just have to take a path in life you didn't expect. If I was you I would say screw it, enough, I am not wasting any more time and money for therapy jumping through hoops for her. You are obviously her plan "B" Ninja'sHusband. She totally disrespected you and her child by getting pregnant outside the marriage. There is something wrong inside her if she can throw the two closest people to her under a bus like that.

 

Ya, it's not what you want. Not what you planned. But it's what she has chosen. She got away with her first affair, now she about to get away with her second affair where she ended up getting preggo! Once a cheater not always a cheater, twice a cheater, ALWAYS a cheater. No more free passes dude, no more "negotiations." Stop justifying her repeated cheating with useless platitudes and theories why she cheats. A woman worth you devotion shouldn't cheat twice.. and get pregnant. After all she didn't trip by accident and fall onto the OM's junk just because of something "you" did or didn't do.

 

You have every right to be mad, use that anger constructively. If you stay with her you will go through life always wondering who will be the next guy she ends up cheating with. That's no way to live. Tell her to get out, you need time to think if YOU still want her. (..not the other way around.)

 

And while you two are separated - (her punishment for cheating and getting pregnant, and your time to decide what you want to do with her) - get a new therapist, and have a few sessions alone before you think about divorce.

Edited February 18, 2012 by YellowShark

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Hey NH---If you read thread's on all of the infidelity sites, where the A., occurred at a job, you will also see that , the cheating spouse was made to leave the job, as part of NC, and R.---That is the basic premise here----her sport has become her job---so she has to make a choice---her mge., and family, or her sport---and it should have already been made.

 

If you do decide to end your mge.,---YOU DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME----in a D./Custody battle, you will get ripped apart for abandonment

 

Your wife also knows why she strayed, she may not wanna pull it out, but its there,---she knew every step of the way, she was risking her mge., and the well being of her flesh and blood child, and she still very happily went ahead, and cheated----the why, and her thinking must come to the surface, and be fixed, prior to your moving ahead in a R.

 

Some of the problem with your wife does stem from the sport she is in, she has physical contact with other men, and that alone can bring intense feelings toward sexual arousal, and satisfaction.

 

Or the OM leaves the Job/Dojo...... Unfortunately you don't understand that the Dojo is what makes her feel alive and is her release and passion. You can't tell an artist not to paint or a pianist he can never play the piano..... It is what it is.

 

What you do is have one person leave, simple as that. If it is her, she can ifind another Dojo and another discipline. But if she is forced to quit she will resent ou to no end.

 

Again as said be prepared to let her go.

[beenburned]

YS,

I do think that repeat cheaters, that don't get caught and don't have to face any consequences, will do it again.

 

However, I feel that if or when they finally have a d-day, and are forced to face the consequences of all their actions, they finally wake up and realize how severly warped they and their actions are.

 

Anybody can grow up and change at any point in their life! It all depends on if they want to change bad enough to do the long hard work of understanding why they acted like this in the first place.

 

Some do and some don't. But I would never say someone is not capable of change, mainly because we mature as we age and hopefully learn from our mistakes.

[Steadfast]

2Sunny' date=' do you know why your WH had his As? Do you acknowledge that you had some part? Certainly it wasn't your fault he chose to do what he did..but he did it for a reason.[/quote']

 

You've been up all night writing, so I'm not sure exactly how important this is to you. That said, feeling somewhat responsible when a spouse cheats is common; in the early stages of grief one can feel totally responsible for it! Especially when the cheater is shifting blame. I've worn the keys out on my computer typing: "If only perfect people stay married, then everyone would be divorced" which means that it's easy for a cheater to find something to connect their actions to, and it works for them more often than not.

 

You're getting bombarded here, so I'll keep this to the point. Prepare yourself for not ever knowing why she cheated, even though it would be really great if one just knew, wouldn't it? It would be nice to avoid that.

 

She may not know herself...or at least, not well enough to verbalize it. In many cases, the reason is so utterly selfish and shallow that she stands a real chance of losing you (or your respect) forever if you knew. She is frantically trying to salvage her self-esteem while selfishly fulfilling her wants and needs. Is it any wonder why she's so screwed up?

 

Welcome to Cheaterville. Population: Growing Every Day.

 

Judge actions. Period. Not her words. Just the actions. The cheater's native language is lying. Believe half of what you see and nothing you hear.

[2sunny]

Do you think your wife would have told you if she hadn't gotten pregnant? It's one thing to screw aroun? its another to not use protection and risk getting pregnant. Makes me wonder too, IF she would have been honest without this event.

 

When there's no honesty - there's no foundation for a R.

 

I do understand she told on herself... But since she is one to with hold her truth; what does she THINK she's offering to the M without her truth?

 

How much is she willing to let go of that old behavior and offer up ALL of her truth now?

[Kidd]

Do you think your wife would have told you if she hadn't gotten pregnant? It's one thing to screw aroun? its another to not use protection and risk getting pregnant. Makes me wonder too, IF she would have been honest without this event

 

I wondered the same thing. Might not seem all that relevant but I read a stat that when the affair is disclosed, 70% of the Ms survive 2 years. When it is discovered, it drops to 35% and only half report being happy in the marriage. Seems like a significant factor for a lot of people. Seems also that she is in the middle but only by virtue of an unexpected pregnancy. If this wouldn't have happened, would the A still be going on today?

[2sunny]

And at THIS very moment - a big huge red flag is:

 

That SHE went away this weekend WITHOUT you - specifically leaving you out of the weekend.

 

Any spouse searching and doing their BEST to reconnect, and GROW the M to a better place doesn't leave the other spouse out.

 

Just saying.

 

She's stil "all about me!" and anyone who is "still all about me!" will cheat AGAIN!

 

When she starts thinking and considering YOUR feelings before HERS - THAT'S when the M has a chance to begin being repaired. But as long as SHE is thinking of herself FIRST and NOT YOU - she will cheat.

 

She should have NEVER gone away without you! That is NOT doing her part to repair the damage SHE caused and showing willingness to RECONNECT with you.

 

Her selfish attitude shows in her ACTIONS - remember that!

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH, I only stopped posting because I don't have the same amount of time to invest that 2Sunny does. To be perfectly honest, she drives me crazy as I am sure she is doing to you. It is just incessant and exhausting. What I will say in her defense is that she's almost always right (and that's a big deal).

 

I wanted to chime in for a moment and say that I was in a very similar place as you. I read SAA, HNHN (and about 15 other "expert" books). To a real extent, it gave me something to do rather than be devastated. As well, by focusing on my flaws and where I could improve, it allowed me to NOT have to look at the disgusting behavior of my W. I didn't want to look at and accept what a bad person she was because I desperately needed her. I would be the super hero and fix everything if necessary. But the fact is that you didn't break the M; she IS broken. The wayward forum on the other site is a great place to learn about this.

 

But what I really wanted to address is this issue about your anger. I fully agree that you need to get it under control (trust me on this one - I am paying a big price right now). But you must understand that the WS always wants the BS to "get over it, stop looking at the past, focus on the future" blah, blah, blah. You say your W is "afraid." I'm going to take a wild guess that you're not the typical domestic violence guy; I bet you have never raised a hand to your wife or child anytime, period. So where does this "fear" of hers come from? It is all subconscious bullcrap designed to get you to feel guilty for making her feel guilty so that you'll stop holding her accountable for her actions. The reality is that she needs to own her *****. But instead, she has you focused on some nonexistent character flaw of yours which feeds into your desperation to save the marriage. I have to tell you that saving the M needs to no longer be your highest priority. It sure sounds noble and it's consistent with what you always did before. I grasped onto the Harley books big time and told everyone here what a great W I had and that they didn't know her like I did. It is very hard to read your posts because I was exactly there 9 months ago. You're making all the same mistakes I made. No one here wishes harm to your M. You must accept that your wife dropped a nuclear bomb on it and you're walking around reassembling the family china. I happens. You want to feel that you and your W are the exception, that you will make it and she just made a mistake. I'm sorry friend, but it turns out that thinking you are the exception IS the rule. Personally, I hope you are able to successfully reconcile. It takes years, by the way. But the fact is that you cannot trust your wife right now to take care of you and the marriage. The goal is no longer to save the M, but to save yourself. The Harley books show you a path to save the M at all costs; it's not worth that. You would probably do ANYTHING to save the M right now. Your W knows that, the Harleys know that. The people here know that you need to protect yourself and you need to bevery cautious about trusting someone who has shown they cannot be trusted. Your wife did not slip, trip, and fall on the other man's d!ck repeatedly (and lie about it repeatedly) on accident. It takes conscious thought, effort, planning, and quite frankly, time management to make it happen.

 

Ultimately, yes, you will need to address one another's needs to have a successful M. I suspect reading 3 books on that has educated you enough. But saving this M now has little to do with you. It has to do with her. She has to own this, stop shifting the blame, stop running away, stop being defensive, stop being "afraid" and show real indefinite remorse for what she has done. You can't have faith in her to do that right now. Maybe she will; the data in front of you should be telling you it ain't likely. You can take your time to decide but you can't make her do it or "nice" her into it.

 

Alright enough for now. I'll try to catch back up with you tonight. Focus on taking care of yourself.

 

Yeah man, what you are describing sounds very similar to me. I connect with your posts better than anyone here so far. I'm starting to lose count on the books I've read. I've not been restricted to the Harleys...but I agree with you on them having you save the marriage at all costs. I think that's why I can't do his full 6 month recommendation. It just sounds ludicrous. I've already been through near 4 months of torment anyway. Here's my book list, in rough order, some overlapped:

 

Love Must Be Tough - Dobson

Women's Infidelity 1&2 - Langley

His Needs Her Needs - Harley

Love Busters - Harley

Divorce Remedy - Weiner-Davis (redo of Divorce Busters, found it on my own, but my therapist likes this book too)

The Seven Principles for Making a Marriage Work - Gottman (therapist cited Gottman as a source on website, so I checked it out)

Hold Me Tight - Johnson (therapist recommended this)

Good Divorce Ahrons (not finished with it...I noticed my therapist has a copy, she never mentioned it though)

Surviving an Affair - Harley (still not finished with it)

 

and I read one sex book..which was probably a waste of time ^^ Not even gonna look up the title.

 

Kidd, did you R or D? From your previous posts I thought it was R, now I'm thinking D. Also yeah, I'm shifting more towards the me thing. I still have small hopes for us...but it does look grim. Oh and blame, at first she told me it was completely her fault. It was me who pushed her into figuring out why. Figuring out why doesn't necessarily mean shifting of blame. She's doing what I asked her to do. She hates what she's done and I believe she's truly sorry. The night she first told me she told me what a horrible wife she was. When I found out about the lies she told me she had been a horror of a wife oh hell, these are my wife's words after more lies were revealed:

 

Thank you for revealing my bad side to me. I needed it. You made me a good mirror and upheld it to me. I am a horror of what a wife should be and you never deserved this betrayal. I acknowledge my epic failure in you. Im horrified at the person I’ have become. I am ashamed and deeply depressed. I feel alone and abandoned as do you. I created a deep hole that may never be fixed. I don’t think I can forgive myself anymore than you can forgive me. Im just horrified right now. Shocked and sick.

I still feel lost.

I love parts of you deeply. I care for you deeply no matter what.

and another message from her:

 

I need to know how to control my fear, so that I do not lie in the future. This is where I need to change.

Just to restate because people are still missing this: My wife has not been to the dojo with the OM since I found out about the affair, except for once, and I was there as well. They alternated days. Recently she has missed nearly a month of classes for my sake.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I wondered the same thing. Might not seem all that relevant but I read a stat that when the affair is disclosed, 70% of the Ms survive 2 years. When it is discovered, it drops to 35% and only half report being happy in the marriage. Seems like a significant factor for a lot of people. Seems also that she is in the middle but only by virtue of an unexpected pregnancy. If this wouldn't have happened, would the A still be going on today?

Yeah that's a hard pill to swallow...but it probably would be =(

Believe me I've thought of that.

[2sunny]

Throwing her guilt and shame onto you will not help her...

 

She needs to be the one to look within...at herself - and what is so broken about her that she would DO this to you, to the M, to the family.

 

IF she can't - there's nothing to fix.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Just to restate because people are still missing this: My wife has not been to the dojo with the OM since I found out about the affair, except for once, and I was there as well. They alternated days. Recently she has missed nearly a month of classes for my sake.

 

And she will resent you more and more as this is her passion. That is why (as a spouse of a MA enthusiast) I implore you to make the sensei make the decision as to who is to leave, He will know that the wo can not be at the same dojo.

 

By telling her or curbing this she will resent you.

 

Pretend you love golf and are a member at an exclusive club and your spouse tell you that you no longer can play golf. You would ask her why and beg to be allowed. The compromise is that you can continue golf but not at that club. Yep you love the club and everything it means to you, but you aren't giving up the passion for the game and playing it.

 

here are any forms of MA and she (or he, and I bet he is the one who will be asked to leave) that she can do and continue.

 

Of course if you don't have the trust to let her otofyour site, then you really have nothing.

[2sunny]

Any news about the info you gave to his BS?

[Kidd]

My recent story (brief version)...

 

On Dec 26, I discovered an internet blog where my W described in graphic detail her first encounter with the OM, on my couch. She reveled in the fact that her H would never know what had happened there. I had spent 7 or so months trying to forgive and R only to be devastated by TT (trickle-truth). I left work, went to a bar, got hammered, returned home, dragged the couch into the backyard, set it ablaze, returned to the house and (allegedly) threw my W out the front door. Welcome to jail. By the time I got out the next day, my wife petitioned the court to keep me away from her, my house, etc.. Haven't be allowed home since or to contact my W. I found out from a neighbor that my W was filing for divorce. I got papers last week and met with my D attorney just yesterday.

 

I defended my W vigorously, just as you are doing. The lies are what ultimately killed the M. My latest reaction certainly didn't help. I hope your situation is different. I am still grieving the loss but I have reached acceptance. I have my own apartment now and my kids will starts having overnights with me next week. It's been brutal. As for money, it will come from somewhere. I have lost my marriage, kids, house, and everything I've acquired in life. My retirement savings is getting hit hard starting my life over but better days are coming. Don't let it be a factor. Find out which W you have today. This is not a race, by the way. You took a big step yesterday. You're doing well. And it's ok to love your W for who she is today. For your sake, I hope she can fix herself. The onus is on her.

 

I suggest she read, "How Can I Help My Spouse Heal From My Affair." As well, I recommend you ask her to read and post on the Wayward forum on the other site daily. The waywards there can be absolutely remarkable in helping her identify what to do. It can be troublesome for her to read your posts there so perhaps LS can be your outlet and SI can be hers.

 

Good luck and keep focusing on yourself. Keep your options open. And get a handle on your anger. The orange jumpsuit makes quite an impression (especially since they didn't let me wear underwear under than damn thing).

[Ninja'sHusband]

And she will resent you more and more as this is her passion. That is why (as a spouse of a MA enthusiast) I implore you to make the sensei make the decision as to who is to leave, He will know that the wo can not be at the same dojo.

 

By telling her or curbing this she will resent you.

 

Pretend you love golf and are a member at an exclusive club and your spouse tell you that you no longer can play golf. You would ask her why and beg to be allowed. The compromise is that you can continue golf but not at that club. Yep you love the club and everything it means to you, but you aren't giving up the passion for the game and playing it.

 

here are any forms of MA and she (or he, and I bet he is the one who will be asked to leave) that she can do and continue.

 

Of course if you don't have the trust to let her otofyour site, then you really have nothing.

I've noticed a lot of people bringing the sensei idea up. I actually suggested this to my counselor a couple weeks ago I think. Both she and my friend at work didn't seem to keen on the idea. I dunno, it does go with the whole exposure thing. I'm considering it. My hit list of next ppl to tell would be sensei, and her parents. If they were still at the other dojo where the OM had a key...I would have told sensei straight away...cause that's just F-ed up. A married man taking someone else's wife and bonking them in the dojo after hours. Total abuse of privilege, practically criminal.

 

And I agree with what you are saying. I think you are one of the few who actually get it what this means to my wife. Its why I started this thread. But have you checked out the other thread on the SI forums? This lady, annb, made an astonishing post. SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity 5th response. I showed that to my counselor and my counselor said ann was very lucky. My W gave up another MA, after that other incident I've mentioned. The OMW made him contact the sensei and she got kicked out. I'm grateful for that action. Yeah I should probably do it... Probably should have done it last night since they had class =\

The problem is, there isn't another dojo. This is the sensei that wants her to go to Japan. If we D...and she still is denied everything because of that. OMG the hell we will go through even as divorced coparents...scares me. She will be hella pissed. But if we D I don't know how she could continue anway..no money, I'm not paying for that &*^#. Yeah, I'd say the Japan thing is screwed anyway. Bleah, sorting through all this... I'm considering it. I think her career in this MA is pretty screwed regardless.

I'm hoping we can all take up fencing or something. She can love another sport.

 

Oh and 2Sunny, no news on the OMW or OM since I delivered the packet. She might not have read it yet, who knows? She might be biding her time, I've read accounts where women will wait a month before taking action.

 

And did you read both of my wife's messages I posted? I think you missed the second one. The were both very important for me to hear that night, and in general. I needed to know she hated what she did, and yes, I needed to know she was searching for why she did what she did and she was going to change.

[Ninja'sHusband]

My recent story (brief version)...

 

On Dec 26, I discovered an internet blog where my W described in graphic detail her first encounter with the OM, on my couch. She reveled in the fact that her H would never know what had happened there. I had spent 7 or so months trying to forgive and R only to be devastated by TT (trickle-truth). I left work, went to a bar, got hammered, returned home, dragged the couch into the backyard, set it ablaze, returned to the house and (allegedly) threw my W out the front door. Welcome to jail. By the time I got out the next day, my wife petitioned the court to keep me away from her, my house, etc.. Haven't be allowed home since or to contact my W. I found out from a neighbor that my W was filing for divorce. I got papers last week and met with my D attorney just yesterday.

 

I defended my W vigorously, just as you are doing. The lies are what ultimately killed the M. My latest reaction certainly didn't help. I hope your situation is different. I am still grieving the loss but I have reached acceptance. I have my own apartment now and my kids will starts having overnights with me next week. It's been brutal. As for money, it will come from somewhere. I have lost my marriage, kids, house, and everything I've acquired in life. My retirement savings is getting hit hard starting my life over but better days are coming. Don't let it be a factor. Find out which W you have today. This is not a race, by the way. You took a big step yesterday. You're doing well. And it's ok to love your W for who she is today. For your sake, I hope she can fix herself. The onus is on her.

 

I suggest she read, "How Can I Help My Spouse Heal From My Affair." As well, I recommend you ask her to read and post on the Wayward forum on the other site daily. The waywards there can be absolutely remarkable in helping her identify what to do. It can be troublesome for her to read your posts there so perhaps LS can be your outlet and SI can be hers.

 

Good luck and keep focusing on yourself. Keep your options open. And get a handle on your anger. The orange jumpsuit makes quite an impression (especially since they didn't let me wear underwear under than damn thing).

Wow man that sucks, I'm sorry things worked out that way =( I'm really hesitant to direct her to the online forums. Ugh she'd probably go bananas if she discovered this thread. She may at some point...Hi there!

[whichwayisup]

You two need to get to marriage counselling and do this together and apart, but use the same person. Say goodbye to the therapist you have now since they don't specialize in marriage counseling. The advice to NOT allow you to tell MM's wife about the affair is wrong. His wife deserves to know so she can make a decision to forgive him and work through the marriage or divorce. Also, it's another way of totally ending the affair. Four eyes are better than two. Have they been in contact through phones or email?

 

You could contact exMM and let him know that he has a choice, either HE tells his wife about the affair or you will.

 

Imagine if your wife hadn't had that miscarriage? Where would things be at now?