Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[AHardDaysNight]

I think this is very true. This might offend some women here, so if you haven't already blocked me, now is your chance! /end sarcasm

 

Anyway, I think it breaks down into these standards:

 

Male virginity: Men are supposed to be powerful, masculine, and in charge. Virginity makes them less than an experienced woman, which reverses the roles and makes the man less desirable and less masculine/more feminine. Not exactly what a woman is looking for, no matter what she says she's looking for.

 

The answer? Lie about being a virgin.

 

Visiting a prostitute: This makes the man become extremely powerful, and takes him outside of the relationship role, because he's able to get sex whenever he wants (paying for it.) In that sense, he makes a woman feel insecure, because she feels that he can always get a girl better looking than her if he has enough cash. He's also not spending that cash on her, so she feels double whammied.

 

The answer? If you've seen a prostitute, lie about it.

[OnyxSnowfall]

To me, an adult male virgin is far more sightly than a male who engages with a prostitute.

 

(but my past includes taking the virginity of quite a few males, young and older :o)

[fortyninethousand322]

Its two seperate themes i see alot here on LS. Men who are virgins are often shunned. However men who use prostitutes not so much. Where im from thats extremely backwards. I personally could not bring myself to prostitution. Ever. Even on the slowest months i could never do it. Its just too shameful for me.

 

Male virginity on the other hand can be admirable. As long as the person isnt someone who complains about it. And most men who aren't most like screwed women below their standards. So. Whats your thoughts on this?

 

Well I remember several threads on LS where male virgins were pretty much told that they're weird and very unattractive. It wasn't so much the sexual inexperience but the fact that many had no relationship experience and little dating experience.

 

I'm one of those guys myself. My gut feeling is that it's pretty much too late for me. I should have figured it out in college (really the best time of one's life to be able to do so) and since I didn't and since I don't have any legitimate excuse (like working in a male dominated field like IT or something) most women won't be cutting me any slack. I also have the gut feeling that women would be more ok with a guy visiting a prostitute than with a guy who was a virgin.

 

Up until a few weeks ago it really bothered me. But, I've been able to distract myself with basketball, stuff involving my career/life goals, the football season, and lots of porn. I suspect that's how I'll be dealing with it the rest of my life.

[AHardDaysNight]

To me, an adult male virgin is far more sightly than a male who engages with a prostitute.

 

(but my past includes taking the virginity of quite a few males, young and older :o)

 

Yes, there are some women that are fine with a man being a virgin. I was just describing what 97% of women seem to react to (at least from my experience.)

[OnyxSnowfall]

Visiting a prostitute: [/b]This makes the man become extremely powerful, and takes him outside of the relationship role, because he's able to get sex whenever he wants (paying for it.) In that sense, he makes a woman feel insecure, because she feels that he can always get a girl better looking than her if he has enough cash. He's also not spending that cash on her, so she feels double whammied.

 

The answer? If you've seen a prostitute, lie about it.

 

Really?

 

I've always thought men who visited prostitutes were either desperate and or had little self-control and or were greedy and or had some other mental issues going on. Not once have I personally considered that my distaste over it was about them being able to sleep with a better looking female... nor that they would be using their resources on another female instead of me...

 

and never have I considered men who sleep with prostitutes as being extremely powerful (more so the opposite).

 

[AHardDaysNight]

Really?

 

I've always thought men who visited prostitutes were either desperate and or had little self-control and or were greedy and or had some other mental issues going on. Not once have I personally considered that my distaste over it was about them being able to sleep with a better looking female... nor that they would be using their resources on another female instead of me...

 

and never have I considered men who sleep with prostitutes as being extremely powerful (more so the opposite).

 

 

Thanks for your viewpoint on it.

 

To me, it would be a case of being able to sleep with an attractive female. Probably one that I wouldn't be able to sleep with, outside of prostitution.

 

I suppose there is some desperation there. But there's also a sense of power and control, because you can buy a good looking girl, at least for an hour.

 

My distaste for engaging in prostitution myself would probably stop me from ever doing it myself. But that's honestly how I view it.

[udolipixie]

Eh...I suppose but getting pregnant on purpose also impacts the child that results from said pregnancy so there's other issues involved. But, I think in practice shy men have it the hardest in dating, IMO.

Different opinion I think that unattractive guys/girls have it hardest in dating

 

I do get the feeling that you don't feel sorry for these dudes you just like to bring up other issues to belittle their problems.

Just getting a comparison on if you only apply your logic to situations that would benefit the man.

 

I find most guys/girls quickly backtrack if they don't like the turnaround. Especially on greater good questions.

 

I'm not bringing up other issues I'm making a comparison to see if your logic is solid or do you base it on what would benefit the guy. Not sure how using comparisons to question your solidity is belittling their problems...if anything I'd understand if you felt I was belittling you.

 

 

And, do you at least agree that a man should not reveal his sexual and/or relationship inexperience to the women he dates?

No.

 

1. I think both genders should be upfront about their sexual history.

 

It's like a person not revealing they have kids. Most people would like to know things that may affect their decision to continue dating the person....life details aren't necessary but sexual past for some is kind of necessary.

 

2. I also think when it comes to omitting sexual history that men get the benefit there. If after some time of dating and emotional bonding a guy omits his abundant sexual history most women wouldn't be that turned off...in fact some would even feel special that out of all those women he chose her. If after some time of dating and emotional bonding a guy omits his inexperience of lack of sexual history some women would get over it if they have had sex with him after his admission.

 

If a woman reveals her abundance of sexual experience a downgrade in his strength in the dating or him dumping her is usually the occurrence.

 

While men have 2 scenarios that would be work out okay in most cases women have 1 scenario that would work out okay.

 

3. Then there's the fact that I dislike purposefully omitting something because you feel it may affect a person's decision about you.

 

Though since you seem okay with hiding sexual/relationship history to dates. are you okay with women lying about the amount of past sexual partners and past relationships with friends or family members of their dates?

[AHardDaysNight]

I think a guy can mask his shyness by pretending to be confident, reading self help books, etc.

 

A guy, however, cannot mask his virginity. When he shoots blanks, or shoots too fast, or acts incredibly nervous, it's going to show that it's his first time. No matter what age he is.

[aj22one]

Different opinion I think that unattractive guys/girls have it hardest in dating

 

I guess we do just have a difference of opinion. I can count on one hand the amount of women who I would consider unattractive so I guess that influences my opinion.

 

 

Just getting a comparison on if you only apply your logic to situations that would benefit the man.

 

I find most guys/girls quickly backtrack if they don't like the turnaround. Especially on greater good questions.

 

I'm not bringing up other issues I'm making a comparison to see if your logic is solid or do you base it on what would benefit the guy. Not sure how using comparisons to question your solidity is belittling their problems...if anything I'd understand if you felt I was belittling you.

 

Fair enough. My perspective is from being a late bloomer (20 years old when I first had sex) so that pretty much where I'm coming from.

 

 

 

No.

 

1. I think both genders should be upfront about their sexual history.

 

It's like a person not revealing they have kids. Most people would like to know things that may affect their decision to continue dating the person....life details aren't necessary but sexual past for some is kind of necessary.

 

2. I also think when it comes to omitting sexual history that men get the benefit there. If after some time of dating and emotional bonding a guy omits his abundant sexual history most women wouldn't be that turned off...in fact some would even feel special that out of all those women he chose her. If after some time of dating and emotional bonding a guy omits his inexperience of lack of sexual history some women would get over it if they have had sex with him after his admission.

 

If a woman reveals her abundance of sexual experience a downgrade in his strength in the dating or him dumping her is usually the occurrence.

 

While men have 2 scenarios that would be work out okay in most cases women have 1 scenario that would work out okay.

 

3. Then there's the fact that I dislike purposefully omitting something because you feel it may affect a person's decision about you.

 

Though since you seem okay with hiding sexual/relationship history to dates. are you okay with women lying about the amount of past sexual partners and past relationships with friends or family members of their dates?

 

The only thing I'll say about lying is that when you're choosing between probably not having a chance with women for a long time and lying, most guys will pick lying. Otherwise you're asking them to be ok with their predicament, which is kind of unfair. No one wants to wear a scarlet "V".

 

And I think most guys assume the women are lying about their sexual history anyway.

[AHardDaysNight]

The funny thing is how many 40 and 50 year old virgins are out there. It's not as rare as society would make it out to be.

 

I suspect, as an almost 29 year old with no experience, that I'm heading there. It's not a nice feeling.

[AHardDaysNight]

gals all over are gigling. its all men except for nuns

 

I disagree with this, of course.

 

But it's easier for a female virgin, than a male virgin.

[Cracker Jack]

This seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You either tell the woman you're not very experienced (I'm not completely inexperienced, but I still am inexperienced), hoping she won't hold it against you, or risk keeping it from her, hoping she won't see through the lies and come to her own conclusion that you're inexperienced.

 

I know how it feels to have a woman show interest, only to lose that interest when she asks you about your previous relationship, to which you tell her you've never had. I don't like lying to anyone, but I also don't want to be alone because of my honesty.

 

The logical advice would be to go out and get experience. If only it were that simple...

[ChessPieceFace]

And as for virginity well i cant blame how you feel about that. But what i notice is that when it comes to women. If they like the person enough. Most other qualities they will overlook. that includes virginity.

 

As a 35yo virgin, I will say that I would never choose to be with a woman who felt she would have to "overlook" my virginity, as if it were something inherently negative. If she wants someone experienced she can go spread her legs for whatever player or womanizer she wants. Good riddance to trash.

 

For the girls I would want to be with, they would either see it as positive, or understand me enough as a person to understand the reasons why and certainly not condemn me for it. All other things being equal, I'd rather the girl I was with had less sexual partners than more. Anything else makes no sense to me at all. If you want to say that virginity is an indication of social dysfunction, that's fine, but that should really be addressed as a separate issue.

[aj22one]

This seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You either tell the woman you're not very experienced (I'm not completely inexperienced, but I still am inexperienced), hoping she won't hold it against you, or risk keeping it from her, hoping she won't see through the lies and come to her own conclusion that you're inexperienced.

 

I know how it feels to have a woman show interest, only to lose that interest when she asks you about your previous relationship, to which you tell her you've never had. I don't like lying to anyone, but I also don't want to be alone because of my honesty.

 

The logical advice would be to go out and get experience. If only it were that simple...

 

Like this guy?: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t282992/

[Cracker Jack]

Hey, I remember that topic! I recall a few others, too.

 

I think some can get away with hiding it, but the more that I think about it, the more I realize it's virtually impossible for some to hide it.

[Woggle]

Whose blaming men for pua? I think most are blaming the hypocrisy aka most puas thinking it's okay for men to use mind games and manipulation to get what they want but if a woman does the same it's heinous.

 

As for attracting a woman to date I'm not sure what kind of healthy relationship can develop if the key is to make insults that are backhanded compliments to devalue her so she feels insecure and seeks you for validation.

 

You don't get the fact that most men would to not have to use these tactics in order to avoid being alone and celibate. We wish it were not like this.

[Cracker Jack]

there isnt logical advice

 

Sure. Anything beats sitting around hoping for a miracle, tho.

[ChessPieceFace]

boy ohh boy

 

Typical level of intelligence for someone with your opinion on virginity. I'm amazed you could string those three 3-letter words together without punctuation to even approach a sentence. Congrats.

[Wolf18]

Elysian is by far my favorite poster. He really tells it exactly like it is.

 

I've known women who had everything in common with me. I'm not talking about the guys who see a girl that gives them a boner and pretend they have a lot in common, I mean women who share my same exact hobbies, sense of humor, taste in music, etc, women who were perfect matches (before you say "maybe not perfect for her!!!").

 

I showed all of these women fun, laughter, wisdom, adventure, protection, altruism, kindness, patience. They would always tell me how I was the greatest thing they had in their lives, that they can always count on me, that I'm so amazing, that I always make them smile, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I put my own ass on the line for these women and what did they do ? They simply used me as leverage to **** some guy who had nothing in common with them and didn't like spending time with them, but was better looking.

 

The worst is at some point I gave up on trying to sleep with them, I just wanted some female companionship and friends. And I felt depressed and frustrated when these women who I always around to help were never around when I needed help.

 

These weren't the trashy women females claim are the only ones who do this. Elysians post about sleeping with a sweet girl reminded me of a few of them. These were all women who were seemingly down to earth, friendly, sweet, loved animals and nature, weren't necessarily into gossiping or anything, but yet , the rules still applied to them.

 

It's a sour world and the nature of women is one of the most fickle, cold, and indifferent things ever.

 

If you're not above average in height, have a good job, are in a band, work out 6 hours a day, or have extremely amazing looks just give up. No matter how good of a guy you are and regardless of what you have to give, women just don't care. Not only will they not sleep with you, but they will also never put you ahead of themselves in any situation no matter how many times you did it for them. The only one who they MAY put ahead of themselves is the one whose putting it in her pie.

[Sanman]

There is a lot of silly advice for a thread with two interesting topics.

 

The funny thing is that people here make it about gender. The truth is some individuals of either gender are superficial, cold, and selfish. Some are giving kind and great relationship material. Most are imperfect and somewhere in the middle. Of course women like a hot guy as much as guys like a hot woman.

 

As far as virginity goes, many women may say they respect it by choice or not, but they most often choose not to associate with those men. Many may not want to train/teach a guy or want him to be better in bed. The simple fact is that most people do not wait for marriage and want a partner who knows hoe to please them right out of the box. If you are a virgin due to lack of opportunity, I do agree about the not mentioning it. The sad truth is that most people will not want to deal with it. Most often, I find the virgins to be the nice guys who don't want to 'play the game' or don't understand it. The thing is you can be nice and still get women. However, most guys do it backwards. You don't let a girl get her emotional rocks off on you until you are her bf the same way some women won't give up sex. If sex is women's ace in the hole, attention and being the nice guy/emotional tampon is a man's ace in the hole. Be good at it, but only give it up to women who want a relationship or your true friends. Others are not your problem. Guys who try to emotionally invest without getting a woman who wants a relationship will be about as successful as women who sleep with guys the first time they meet them.

 

As for prostitutes, I have a different opinion from most here. I have no problem with it. Is paying a prostitute worse than nailing a drunk girl, or taking advantage of some emotional girl on a rebound to get your rocks off. How about stringing along a girl in a relationship because it is easy access to sex and dumping her when it gets serious? Women here come on all the time talking about a fwb that want to date them and don't measure up in some way. Does that not hurt the guy? The truth is that most sex outside of a loving honest relationship is obtained through selfish means and most could care less if it hurts the other person (male or female). I think that prostitution is honest if nothing else. A transaction between a guy who is only interested in sex and a woman that is only interested in money.

[ChessPieceFace]

I showed all of these women fun, laughter, wisdom, adventure, protection, altruism, kindness, patience. They would always tell me how I was the greatest thing they had in their lives, that they can always count on me, that I'm so amazing, that I always make them smile, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I put my own ass on the line for these women and what did they do ? They simply used me as leverage to **** some guy who had nothing in common with them and didn't like spending time with them, but was better looking.

 

The worst is at some point I gave up on trying to sleep with them, I just wanted some female companionship and friends. And I felt depressed and frustrated when these women who I always around to help were never around when I needed help.

 

These weren't the trashy women females claim are the only ones who do this. Elysians post about sleeping with a sweet girl reminded me of a few of them. These were all women who were seemingly down to earth, friendly, sweet, loved animals and nature, weren't necessarily into gossiping or anything, but yet , the rules still applied to them.

 

It's a sour world and the nature of women is one of the most fickle, cold, and indifferent things ever.

 

If you're not above average in height, have a good job, are in a band, work out 6 hours a day, or have extremely amazing looks just give up. No matter how good of a guy you are and regardless of what you have to give, women just don't care. Not only will they not sleep with you, but they will also never put you ahead of themselves in any situation no matter how many times you did it for them. The only one who they MAY put ahead of themselves is the one whose putting it in her pie.

 

I'm very cynical and negative about women (which I would say equals being realistic about women) but even I think you went a bit too far with that one. I personally do not date, pretty much hate the idea of dating, hate western cultural 'norms' in this day and age, and think it's unlikely that I will ever find anyone for me. However, I am introverted and most of the time pretty happy to just be alone playing video games, to be honest.

 

Many women are trash. Are most women trash? Maybe, I haven't decided for sure. ALL women? Nah. There's still good women out there but they are increasingly harder to find. There are always atypical people that defy their cultural norms and live to a higher standard of behavior and ethics. I am one of them.

 

Maybe the few, really good women are even harder to find not just because of their percentage, but because some of them don't try? Just a theory... but say there are girls out there I would like, that would like me. How would they even find me? Well, they probably wouldn't. I don't socialize very much, I don't date and I have more or less given up.

 

Also, if you are indeed a short, broke, out-of-shape ugly guy, you would either have to settle for an equally unappealing gal, or are by necessity a hypocrite? Cuts both ways. One of my many problems is that my own standards are a bit higher than my personal financial and fitness level, let's say. I'm not really THAT overweight now, but am still extremely broke, and working on both of those. Not for women necessarily but because I'm just tired of being overweight and broke.

[AHardDaysNight]

Wolf, why don't you go marry Elysian and have done with it? You seem to have a man crush on him anyways!

[Wolf18]

Wolf, why don't you go marry Elysian and have done with it? You seem to have a man crush on him anyways!

 

Woah what a witty guy...

 

Aren't you the guy who women are always friend zoning?

 

Guys like you are the reason american women are the way they are and will never change. Fight against the truth tellers holding women accountable, and still not get any

[KathyM]

Its two seperate themes i see alot here on LS. Men who are virgins are often shunned. However men who use prostitutes not so much. Where im from thats extremely backwards. I personally could not bring myself to prostitution. Ever. Even on the slowest months i could never do it. Its just too shameful for me.

 

Male virginity on the other hand can be admirable. As long as the person isnt someone who complains about it. And most men who aren't most like screwed women below their standards. So. Whats your thoughts on this?

Any woman would be repulsed if she knew that a guy she was dating had been with a prostitute. That has such an ick factor, and women would be worried that they might catch an STD from a guy if he had been to one. It's not at all necessary to tell a woman that you are a virgin, unless you want to. I, personally, would respect a man who was holding out for religious purposes.

[Dark Phoenix]

Opinions:

 

Male virginity: If being a male virgin is by choice then I hold great respect for you... as long as it was your choice and not everyone else's.

 

 

Prostitution: worst choice someone could make.

 

 

 

To get a girl: It's not that hard. I think most, if not all, of you are making this more complex than what it really is. the advice "just be yourself" really rings true on this, just don't be the "yourself" that is needy, desperate, or has a hidden agenda (personal goals like getting sex, getting a fwb, or even getting a girlfriend). A few of you said something along the lines of "if you want a girl you need to just not care". This rings partially true; although, if you truly didn't care you wouldn't make the effort to converse with women, or anyone for that matter. You need a happy median, like "I want to make a new friend" or "I just want to learn more about this person".

 

 

 

The smart guys (talked about earlier in this thread): I noticed the thread drifted off topic into a discussion about "smart male virgins", someone noticed that these certain males tend to be in a hard science course: Computer Science or engineering. Hopefully I can shed some insight on that topic (me being in the CS field). I am kind of the outcast among my peers. I majored in computer science for my associates and am working towards my bachelor's in Computer Information Systems. I am an outcast because I do have a more social background and mix well into other groups of people. From what I have noticed most CS majors tend to focus more on their studies and discard social events, or at least social events that women would typically attend. They do not have the social experience to associate with many people that are not interested in their major nor do they have a strong desire to gain social skills. I suspect that most CS majors would lose their virginity (if they haven't already) if they just put forth the effort to go out and meet people. For the most part the CS major's are a pretty socially isolated bunch. (Apart from me)