When your SO makes subtle comments that you need to lose weight

[Star Gazer]

No, it was in a later thread where she actually RETRACTED that prior statement.

 

I retracted the "fixable" part.

 

You know an awful lot about my posting history, and seem to have taken an awful keen interest in what I say in ES's threads... You keep giving yourself away, every time you return. Again, I know who you are.

[zengirl]

Does it count for something when she later said she changed her mind? Even if she did change hr mind, that's a really hurtful thing to say in my opinion.

 

I suppose it depends on what she actually said.

[zengirl]

I retracted the "fixable" part.

 

Seriously or in a "Ugh, maybe they're not fixable if you're going to be like that!" way. Because I always get the impression you think ES's problems are perfectly fixable. Maybe that's something you have to be kind of critical to get, but most of the time, it's only worth criticizing something repeatedly if you think it can be changed/fixed.

[torn_curtain]

I retracted the "fixable" part.

 

You know an awful lot about my posting history, and seem to have taken an awful keen interest in what I say in ES's threads... You keep giving yourself away, every time you return. Again, I know who you are.

 

Wow, you're actually trying to tarnish my character by accusing me of being another poster?

 

If you don't think she's fixable then you really have no business pretending to give her advice. Why would you even respond to her threads if you believe that, and how could she take anything you say in good faith if she knows you believe her to be beyond help?

Edited August 12, 2011 by torn_curtain

[Star Gazer]

It's like SG can never, ever let go of past behaviours in people, digging them up when she needs ammunition when defending herself. People learn, change and grow.

 

Ohhhhh, you mean like when I said this:

 

Once upon a time, I (along with many, many others, including TBF) was tough on LB. I was. When she first started dating her now-H, and pre-engagement, she presented herself in an immature way. LB has grown up a lot since she's been here, and now often jokes about how she was back in the day (when she and I EQUALLY butted heads). She put up a fight against a lot of people. Back then. Now? As silly as it may sound on a forum, I am PROUD of her and far she has come. And ask her who from LS she's recently chatted with offline for help and advice, via personal/real name email. Me. I actually really, really like LB.

 

Looks like acknowledgment of growth and development to me!

 

The reason why I don't act as if ES has learned, changed or grown is because in my opinion, I don't think she has in so far as where it matters. That is my OPINION. It's always the same underlying problem. Every. Single. Time.

 

Gawd, I wish the thread of hers where she THANKED me and said what I had said was helpful was still around. (The peeing puppy analogy.)

[Star Gazer]

Seriously or in a "Ugh, maybe they're not fixable if you're going to be like that!" way. Because I always get the impression you think ES's problems are perfectly fixable. Maybe that's something you have to be kind of critical to get, but most of the time, it's only worth criticizing something repeatedly if you think it can be changed/fixed.

 

In the UGH! way. She had three different parallel threads going on at the time, and in the first ("No, you're not BS crazy") one, I believed that the problem was fixable. In the two other threads that developed (I don't even know if they're still around, several of her threads have been deleted...like the one where she broke up with her BF the first or second time), it seemed like she didn't want to "fix" the problem because she didn't even see a problem on her end to begin with. In retracting the "fixable" thing, I MEANT that you cannot fix a problem that you refuse to acknowledge in the first place. Thus, not fixable.

 

And this is a perfect example of why I hate when threads and even posts are deleted, because you can't go back in time and see them in context.

[threebyfate]

Ohhhhh, you mean like when I said this:

 

Looks like acknowledgment of growth and development to me!

 

The reason why I don't act as if ES has learned, changed or grown is because in my opinion, I don't think she has in so far as where it matters. That is my OPINION. It's always the same underlying problem. Every. Single. Time.

 

Gawd, I wish the thread of hers where she THANKED me and said what I had said was helpful was still around. (The peeing puppy analogy.)

One out of how many, SG? Where is your consistent growth?

 

It's like you transfer this need to bully from one member to the next. But at any given time, you're always bullying someone. Why?

[Star Gazer]

Wow, you're actually trying to tarnish my character by accusing me of being another poster?

 

That's weird. Why are you assuming that equating you with someone else would be a bad thing or tarnish your character? Why are you assuming the person is somehow "bad"?

[zengirl]

In the UGH! way. She had three different parallel threads going on at the time, and in the first ("No, you're not BS crazy") one, I believed that the problem was fixable. In the two other threads that developed (I don't even know if they're still around, several of her threads have been deleted...like the one where she broke up with her BF the first or second time), it seemed like she didn't want to "fix" the problem because she didn't even see a problem on her end to begin with. In retracting the "fixable" thing, I MEANT that you cannot fix a problem that you refuse to acknowledge in the first place. Thus, not fixable.

 

And this is a perfect example of why I hate when threads and even posts are deleted, because you can't go back in time and see them in context.

 

Well, it must be still around, if people are digging it up and reading it today.

 

You and ES are both too prolific for me to even attempt to find it, though.

[Star Gazer]

One out of how many, SG? Where is your consistent growth?

 

I am going to remind you of something, for the thousanth time:

 

This thread isn't about me.

 

So, to that end, AGAIN: PLEASE, stop calling me names. Stop saying untrue things about me. Stop attacking my weight. Stop dragging the past 6 years of my personal life into other people's threads. Stop attacking my veracity and integrity. Stop attributing mal intent to my posts. Stop insulting my intelligence. And most of all, stop accusing me of the very thing you're doing to me.

[RecordProducer]

I am just wondering about this and how to handle it in the future.

I love how you started your post: how to handle this...

 

What you are really asking is how to feel about it. I think what realy hurts us is when the people we love see our flaws - they're supposed to idealize us. We have a mirror, we know what we should lose, but we want to hear that we're loved exactly the way we are, not conditionally, not even despite our little flaws.

 

Some people are perfectionist and will demand pefection in everything. In fact, perfectionists love challenge and for them criticism is akin to encoragement to achieve greatness. I wouldn't take comments about weight seriously if they weren't said with the goal of hurting you. My ex-husband still tells me how much I should lose and I hear it as brotherly advice, especially since I know I am the hottest woman he's ever had.

 

Life is just too short to worry about that crap.

[threebyfate]

I am going to remind you of something, for the thousanth time:

 

This thread isn't about me.

 

So, to that end, AGAIN: PLEASE, stop calling me names. Stop saying untrue things about me. Stop attacking my weight. Stop dragging the past 6 years of my personal life into other people's threads. Stop attacking my veracity and integrity. Stop attributing mal intent to my posts. Stop insulting my intelligence. And most of all, stop accusing me of the very thing you're doing to me.

Notice how defensive you get when someone's being "honest" with you and yet, it's acceptable when you're being "honest" with others? And yet, you continue to bully others. Why?

[Star Gazer]

Notice how defensive you get when someone's being "honest" with you and yet, it's acceptable when you're being "honest" with others? And yet, you continue to bully others. Why?

 

I don't see how you were honest at all. You merely continue making personal attacks. The only person I see doing any bullying here is you.

 

So....

 

I am going to remind you of something, for the thousandth AND ONE time:

 

THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT ME.

 

So, to that end, AGAIN: PLEASE, STOP calling me names. STOP saying untrue things about me. STOP attacking my weight. STOP dragging the past 6 years of my personal life into other people's threads. STOP attacking my veracity and integrity. STOP attributing mal intent to my posts. STOP insulting my intelligence. And most of all, STOP accusing me of the very thing you're doing to me.

[Tasha49]

I think your partner should not complain if you have not gained weight since you met. I think it is one thing to bring it up if you had GAINED a few pounds but to make such comments is not nice on his part. I mean as stated, he knew whag he had signed up for. If he wants to change you he should have thought about that before entering a relationship with you.

 

He may think his suggestions are nice... but this should be entirely up to you.

[threebyfate]

I don't see how you were honest at all. You merely continue making personal attacks. The only person I see doing any bullying here is you.

 

So....

 

I am going to remind you of something, for the thousandth AND ONE time:

 

THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT ME.

 

So, to that end, AGAIN: PLEASE, STOP calling me names. STOP saying untrue things about me. STOP attacking my weight. STOP dragging the past 6 years of my personal life into other people's threads. STOP attacking my veracity and integrity. STOP attributing mal intent to my posts. STOP insulting my intelligence. And most of all, STOP accusing me of the very thing you're doing to me.

It appears that you dislike repetitive criticism too! Funny that, huh?

[Chocolat]

That's an interesting point ZG. If we take your argument to its logical extreme, it would mean that, in essence, bullying only happens to children and teens. And yet, work-place bullying happens all the time.

 

 

I think all healthy adults are capable of not internalizing criticism that rings untrue and is unfounded, because they have a sense of self that allows them to see it's erroneous. Of course, even in those adults, there are often exceptions, such as criticism from a parental figure or lover, but I mean criticism in general. Say from someone on the internet.

 

Maybe I see this incorrectly, but I think that many posters here on LS are not what could be called "healthy adults." This is not a comment directed specifically at any particular person here. But I don't think it can be overlooked that many threads on LS are started by people who either have unhealthy views of the r/s world in general or are temporarily (situationally) in an unhealthy place. That's why they're posting on LS in many cases! So the standard of bullying is different here than, say, in the workplace. Many posters are at a low point and definitely do not need to be kicked when they're down. Sadly, it seems that this is exactly what happens in many cases, this thread being one of them.

 

I also think there are different forms of bullying. There is direct bullying, which I do believe we've seen in this thread (and others started by ES), in which posters feel that because a poster has not followed previously given advice it's now ok to be abusive toward her. But then there is also the peer pressure type bullying, in which a poster will berate or embarrass others who do not share his/her point of view. This results in others simply walking away from the bullying rather than risk it being turned on themselves.

[Star Gazer]

It appears that you dislike repetitive criticism too! Funny that, huh?

 

If you'd like to bully me, please do so in MY threads, not other folks'.

[zengirl]

Maybe I see this incorrectly, but I think that many posters here on LS are not what could be called "healthy adults."

 

True.

 

However, I think they are close enough to them that I would treat them like a healthy adult. This is like how I treat my teenage students like they can understand me as an adult would in many cases (not ALL, obviously) in order to help them develop maturity.

 

I think if you treat someone like they should be handled differently for their unhealthiness, you're only prolonging and encouraging said unhealthiness. But there are many different views. That's just mine.

[threebyfate]

If you'd like to bully me, please do so in MY threads, not other folks'.

Are you enjoying the victim coat that you've now put on? Where's the self-responsibility that you keep hammering ES about? If you don't like my "honesty", why haven't you left the thread? Isn't that what you want ES to do? To either listen to you or stop posting threads about her concerns, or you'll keep being "honest" with her?

[zengirl]

It appears that you dislike repetitive criticism too! Funny that, huh?

 

While the clothing choice comment SG made may have been impolite, it was potentially (again: didn't see the picture, no idea) helpful. The solution is clear in the criticism: find another dress. It is not a direct attack on the poster as a human being even. And most of SG's comments in threads like these are similar: whether they are harsh or not, they are actually going somewhere near Solution Town and they are to someone who is saying, "Hey, here's my problem."

 

How is this a solution-suggestion? ---

 

Notice how defensive you get when someone's being "honest" with you and yet, it's acceptable when you're being "honest" with others? And yet, you continue to bully others. Why?

 

Even if SG were somehow following ES around to maliciously attack her (which I just don't see), do you find your behavior in the recent pages of this thread truly acceptable? By your own standards?

[Star Gazer]

Are you enjoying the victim coat that you've now put on? Where's the self-responsibility that you keep hammering ES about? If you don't like my "honesty", why haven't you left the thread? Isn't that what you want ES to do? To either listen to you or stop posting threads about her concerns, or you'll keep being "honest" with her?

 

I am NOT a victim. Ew.

 

Honestly, what are you trying to do here? Are you trying to "teach me a lesson" or something? Why do you think that's your responsibility?

 

I guess you did not learn anything from Taramere about the Karpman Triangle. You're wearing all three hats in this thread.

[threebyfate]

I am NOT a victim. Ew.

 

Honestly, what are you trying to do here? Are you trying to "teach me a lesson" or something? Why do you think that's your responsibility?

 

I guess you did not learn anything from Taramere about the Tarpman Triangle. You're wearing all three hats in this thread.

Yes, you were trying to play victim but have now backed off because it wasn't working.

 

No, just illustrating how hypocritical you are when "honesty" is turned your way. After all these years of being this way, I would hope you'd finally understand when it's laid out before you and where the shoe is on the other foot.

 

Karpman not Tarpman.

[zengirl]

But then there is also the peer pressure type bullying, in which a poster will berate or embarrass others who do not share his/her point of view. This results in others simply walking away from the bullying rather than risk it being turned on themselves.

 

I wanted to ETA, but cannot.

 

I wanted to say that, funnily enough, I DO see this type of behavior (I wouldn't call it bullying in this case, FTR, since I don't think the person on the receiving end would choose to be a victim) going on in this thread. But not in SG's controversial BBWGate comment or from her at all.

 

Again, mileage may vary and frequently does.

 

(And if my hint is unclear: TBF is doing it. I always prefer to be assertive, or if I must, aggressive instead of passive aggressive.)

[OliveOyl]

Many posters are at a low point and definitely do not need to be kicked when they're down.

 

I agree with this point.

 

I have never personally made improvement in my life out of any criticism where I felt "hurt." Some people may prefer the "tough love" or "I'm just being honest" approach. That just never works for me and it is my belief it doesn't work for the majority of people. This is not to say I think the reverse, being coddled, is effective either. I can make improvement with criticism when I feel the person making the criticism is overall generally supportive of me.

 

Have you ever been in the flush of love, and suddenly you find yourself motivated to making all kinds of positive changes, whether it be looking for a better job, or getting in better shape, or feeling more confident? I just think positive reinforcement is simply more effective. I am not saying this out of a Pollyanna-like attitude. But in general I think a positive approach works more than a negative one.

 

It's possible some people are different and prefer a more hard-line, direct approach. I can be very direct myself, but there is a fine line between being so direct and critical that your well-intentioned advice/criticism simply isn't even processed because the person is busy processing the hurt they felt from the comment instead.

[Nexus One]

Isn't that what you want ES to do? To either listen to you or stop posting threads about her concerns, or you'll keep being "honest" with her?

 

I didn't get the vibe that SG wants ES to leave her threads or stop posting. I did get a vibe from SG that she preferred to see some breakthroughs in regards to ES her self-reflection.

 

Explain this though TBF. I've seen some other posters make some far worse comments to ES than I've ever seen SG make. Where were you then? Why didn't you barrage those posters the way you do SG?

 

You mentioned you were sick of the lack of compassion on LS. I thought that was a fair opinion to have, but then again I don't see you go on a holy crusade of "honesty" against people who make far worse comments in other people's thread.

 

So then why cherry pick SG and why cherry pick ES and not One Goal for example? Is it because SG is a longterm member on LS or because she frequently posts in ES her threads? I'm not sure. It's possible that you two(SG+TBF) have a history here on LS and that you use ES her threads and SG's comments therein as an anchor to take jabs at SG in order to settle some old scores.

 

I'm not saying you're doing that, but I'm saying that it seems like that.

 

Another thing I want to address that you seem to have dodged. I got a vibe from you that you were a member of some religious group like Scientology or something. Are you? Members of that sect give off a very similar vibe that you gave off in your replies, i.e. reacting very heavily and exaggerating while being unrelenting. The barrages keep coming and often in short bursts to evoke long defenses from other members, not to prove them wrong, because the arguments are too weak, but to wear them out. As if you're using some tactic used by some religious groups to defend their religion or to convert other people.

 

I'm not saying that's the case....I'm saying that's the vibe you gave off. And I sensed that without knowing jack sh*t about you. So tell me, are you religious and what religion do you practice? And don't give me the "that's not relevant" bullsh*t, because if you're going to accuse me of abuse and the enabling thereof, then I want to get to the bottom of your motivation. Because I sense some major bullsh*t here and I don't want to be at the receiving end of some (brainwashed) member of some cult, neither do I wish that upon others. If you are f*cking with us and using tactics taught in your religious sect, then I'm prepared to call you out on it.