I feel like crap

[Els]

I wish I knew what caused this for guys who look totally normal, or even above average, and who seem totally normal, like yourself.

 

It really is such a stange phenomenon. It's got to be something more than just needing to change a hair style, being shy, being unconfident, or whatever. As most people with these problems, still attract others and get relationships.

 

I wish a proper study would be done on this. Something scientific.

 

I don't think the answer could be summed up to any singular cause. To be fair, it isn't just happening to guys. There are plenty of average-looking, totally normal women who have not had much luck with the opposite sex either. The OP has had 2 relationships (IIRC?) and is 30, I know girls of a perfectly normal weight, nice friendly girls, who are 25 and have never had a relationship. It isn't that their standards are incredibly high either. The OP has a few basic criteria, so do they.

 

I think the two basic factors are 1) Supply and demand, and also how much you interact with the opposite sex, and 2) How much you stand out in the crowd you are in. Also, there is sheer luck, which can't be argued with.

 

 

Was I badgering her?

 

I called her on 8/4 at around 1:40 and left a message. I just found out I didn't have to work that day and wanted to hang out. I sent her a text several hours later. Two days later I sent her another text then finally heard back from her.

 

She usually gets back to me the same day I send a message. Going a couple days is not normal for her. Was it wrong for me to ask why she didn't reply?

 

I'm not saying it's wrong per se. Just that it's not attractive.

[ptp]

"Has your self-confidence, and self-worth been affected by the way she has treated you? "

 

Hmm, that is a great question. And the answer is yes. Because I let it happen. I shouldn't become this upset because somebody didn't get around to returning a call and text.

 

She's a good person and only brings positive energy. But by default I'm so negative that I blow up everything she does. I think it's a miracle that she stuck around for so long. I think I've just been doing a great job of hiding my negativity from her.

 

My self-confidence has taken a hit because I feel like a failure for not being able to win her over. It was exactly the same thing last summer when I was after a different girl and she dropped me.

 

What makes up for it, is that I feel great when I'm actually with her. I feel like a real man. Even when I'm not crushing on a girl, I'm generally sad and hate seeing couples.

 

Right now I'm glad that we've spent the time together that we have.

 

Um, that's three inches shorter. It is a big deal, especially when there are men who are three inches taller than average.

 

If I used my height as a crutch, I wouldn't ask out anybody and that isn't the case.

 

I don't know why women reject me. All I know is that I keep hearing how height is important to them. I'm just putting two and two together.

 

The fact of the matter is, women are not physically attracted to me. I don't know if it's because of my height, my face, my hair or my body. Frankly I think all of those but my height are fine. So it's the only one I can point the finger at.

 

You didn't read what I wrote. I didn't say a crutch something that prevents you from asking girls out.

 

I said a crutch is something you turn to when you get rejected. Its easier blaming that crutch (whether its height or obesity etc...) rather than looking for the real reason you got rejected.

 

You have to let go of your crutch.

[somedude81]

Well, seems to me you're pretty normal, got the usual things going on. My advice would be to stop plugging for finding a serious relationship right now and spend a bit more time not giving a crap, but go out and do stuff elsewhere. Might be the library, the park, the pub, the garden.

 

Me, I love yoga. The positive vibes from classes really cheer me up, the endorphins and the improvement in posture, strength and flexibility all do too. Six months of it and some fairly regular cycling (for fun, not time trials or anything like that) and I feel much more whole, and loose, and unable to get too wound up about anything.

 

Also a change of diet has improved my mood and stability. That and adding a few innocuous hobbies, such as fish keeping and gardening. I get the impression you're seeing life as a linear progression, when in fact it's a multidimensional array of things all going on at the same time.

Spend more time not giving a crap?

 

Yeah, I do need to find an activity that occupies me and takes my mind of the world.

 

Yeah I kind of do see life as a check list.

 

Right now I don't want to move forward unless I can get the relationship aspect handled. I'm very afraid of becoming a lonely old man.

 

There is no denying that it is not normal for somebody to be single for so long.

 

If you want to find a lover, you know what to do: circulate. Increase your surface area by increasing your presence in the world. But I don't think you do, particularly, hence you'e not going out and networking

I have tried to network. I was very involved in the Japan club on campus for over a year. I was also part of the anime club. I played co-ed softball and flag-football. In my dance class I tried to organize class outings.

 

But it just didn't do it right and now I'm left with nothing.

 

and this current thing you have is just a diversion. It's easy to focus our feelings on a dead prospect because we know, deep down, it isn't going to change, so we can wallow in those feelings.

 

But once you realise this, it becomes easier to let it go, as it's just a façade, rather than the roadblock we try to make it out to be. Once you have a cry and let whatever feelings you have from that thing out, you'll feel like a weight has been lifted.

She's a diversion? That doesn't make any sense.

 

If it's not obvious, I really like this girl and could easily fall in love with her. In spite of her not wanting to date, because of all the time we've spent together, she's the closest thing I've ever had to a girlfriend. It's hard for me to walk away from that.

 

As I already said, she's not a roadblock. I have pursued other women while I was interested in her. She hasn't interfered at all.

Again, I found yoga to help loads with that, as a moving meditation, it has enabled me to loosen up and feel refreshed.

 

You're a bright guy. I'm sure you'll find your way in life. Just suspend your disbelief more often and try things out.

I could try yoga. I went to one class but I was still sore from a previous workout and I didn't enjoy the yoga at all. It wasn't as relaxing as I expected. But I'll try again.

 

Suspend my disbelief?

My partner's 5'7" and I've never thought of him as short, and I don't think you are either. I've never used the word 'tall' ever in describing or thinking of my ideal partner.

You're still focussed on your looks

Coming across as warm and friendly is a massive turn on for me, one of the biggest turn ons in fact, I think warm and friendly does come across as seeming interested.

Hmm.

 

I just don't know why I keep getting passed over.

I don't think the answer could be summed up to any singular cause. To be fair, it isn't just happening to guys. There are plenty of average-looking, totally normal women who have not had much luck with the opposite sex either. The OP has had 2 relationships (IIRC?) and is 30, I know girls of a perfectly normal weight, nice friendly girls, who are 25 and have never had a relationship. It isn't that their standards are incredibly high either. The OP has a few basic criteria, so do they.

The closest thing I have ever had to a relationship was "dating" somebody I was not attracted to for two weeks. I highly believe that counts.

 

As for the girls that are perfectly normal, 25 and never had a relationship. Do they want to be in a relationship? If so, what kind of guys have they rejected?

 

If a girl is cute she is bound to have had many guys interested in her. It doesn't matter if she was outgoing or not.

 

I think the two basic factors are 1) Supply and demand, and also how much you interact with the opposite sex, and 2) How much you stand out in the crowd you are in. Also, there is sheer luck, which can't be argued with.

I think luck is a huge part of it. It's all about finding a girl who is single, but doesn't want to be, and meeting her requirements. And there's more stuff to it than just that.

 

I'm not saying it's wrong per se. Just that it's not attractive.

Pretty much the same thing.

 

So I'll just have to pretend that it doesn't bother me then.

 

You didn't read what I wrote. I didn't say a crutch something that prevents you from asking girls out.

 

I said a crutch is something you turn to when you get rejected. Its easier blaming that crutch (whether its height or obesity etc...) rather than looking for the real reason you got rejected.

 

You have to let go of your crutch.

I don't get it then.

 

I have no reason why I get rejected so much. Something about me makes me not attractive to women.

 

I think I'm a great guy, and it really pains me that women can't see it.

Edited August 8, 2011 by somedude81

[betterdeal]

She's a diversion? That doesn't make any sense.

 

If it's not obvious, I really like this girl and could easily fall in love with her. In spite of her not wanting to date, because of all the time we've spent together, she's the closest thing I've ever had to a girlfriend. It's hard for me to walk away from that.

 

As I already said, she's not a roadblock. I have pursued other women while I was interested in her. She hasn't interfered at all.

 

Yes, she's a diversion in your head. You feel lonely? You think of her. You feel horny? You think of her. You don't face those feelings directly; instead you magic up this unrequited love. As you say, she doesn't want to date you and is happy for you to date other women. It's all in your head. You are the one using her as a diversion, an imaginary roadblock. Bad workmen blame their tools. Good workmen find the right tools.

 

And you're doing it because it's easy. It's easier to moan about a certainty than go look for an uncertainty. When you get a real woman in a real relationship, you're going to be distinctly uncomfortable because there is the possibility that you might screw it up. With this one you can't screw it up, because there is nothing to screw up.

 

As for growing old and lonely, this is exactly what you're heading for by building up your feelings for someone who doesn't feel the same way. By all means, attach to her if you think that's what you want from life, but I bet it isn't, and I don't think she wants to be your surrogate mother-figure either.

 

Suspend your disbelief, absolutely. You go out and try new stuff, old stuff and just enjoy it for what it is. Of course, you're free to keep banging your head against any wall you choose to construct in your mind, but that's your choice. Not the world's; not hers; not mine. Stick to your check-list. It doesn't seem to have worked so far, but it is entirely up to you.

Edited August 8, 2011 by betterdeal

[Els]

The closest thing I have ever had to a relationship was "dating" somebody I was not attracted to for two weeks. I highly believe that counts.

 

As for the girls that are perfectly normal, 25 and never had a relationship. Do they want to be in a relationship? If so, what kind of guys have they rejected?

 

If a girl is cute she is bound to have had many guys interested in her. It doesn't matter if she was outgoing or not.

 

I did not say 'cute', mind you. I said 'average-looking'. I guess though if you think the average-looking girl is cute, then they do qualify as 'cute'. That does not mean that all guys think so. There are more guys deluded into chasing the 20% best lookers than you think exist.

 

One of them has had only two guys express clear interest in her that I know of - one was a player and she wanted a proper relationship, and the other was double her age and her boss.

 

Admittedly shyness puts a guy at a greater disadvantage than it does a girl, but looks (not even talking about weight, just the type of looks that you can't change without plastic surgery or extensive professional makeup) does put a girl at a greater disadvantage, generally speaking.

[PelicanPete]

So after skimming through this thread, the just of it is OP has received some pretty decent advice. However, he is always quick to respond to that advice and perform some sort of evasive maneuver to discredit it or never apply it into his day-to-day life. So in short, it's just OP whining about how much his life sucks just because he aimed low for a "gf" and got what he paid for. There has been no progression because it feels like OP is more here to complain and make excuses to make him feel better about his shortcomings in life, rather then actually try to change it.

 

How are you suppose to expect someone else to like you or even fall in love with you, when you don't even like yourself? There's a reason you're this age with such little game. You can blame your height, your parents, your interests, or how you didn't get that toy for christmas when you were 8, but in the end its just excuses.

 

I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of human beings that would trade places with you in a heartbeat, so instead of complaining about things you don't like and transmitting this debby downer attitude that no one enjoys, why not take action and start pushing yourself and making changes. No one is going to feel sorry for you because its all in your power to fix and modify and change, you're just stamping your feet and complaining like a child.

 

So instead of picking apart everyones responses and looking for ways to disengage from their advice, why not take it all as a whole and try applying it to your life? If you can't do that, and you can't learn to enjoy who you are, then you don't really deserve a girlfriend.

[somedude81]

Yes, she's a diversion in your head. You feel lonely? You think of her. You feel horny? You think of her. You don't face those feelings directly; instead you magic up this unrequited love. As you say, she doesn't want to date you and is happy for you to date other women. It's all in your head. You are the one using her as a diversion, an imaginary roadblock. Bad workmen blame their tools. Good workmen find the right tools.

That still doesn't make any sense.

 

What is she blocking?

 

And yes I think of her when I'm lonely because I miss her company. When I'm horny I put on some porn. I don't get what you mean by facing those feelings directly.

 

Also, I didn't chose to fall for her.

 

 

And you're doing it because it's easy. It's easier to moan about a certainty than go look for an uncertainty. When you get a real woman in a real relationship, you're going to be distinctly uncomfortable because there is the possibility that you might screw it up. With this one you can't screw it up, because there is nothing to screw up.

Look for an uncertainty? Once again I don't get it.

 

Of course I can screw up with her. If I try to make a move on her and she's not receptive, she can get mad and kick me out of her life. I obviously don't want that to happen.

As for growing old and lonely, this is exactly what you're heading for by building up your feelings for someone who doesn't feel the same way. By all means, attach to her if you think that's what you want from life, but I bet it isn't, and I don't think she wants to be your surrogate mother-figure either.

Surrogate mother-figure? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Yes building up my feelings for somebody who doesn't feel the same way is something I have a long history of doing. Once again, it's not my choice to fall for girls. It really sucks to have these feelings. If I could chose when and who I fell for, I would. That would have saved me a lot of pain and heartbreak.

Suspend your disbelief, absolutely. You go out and try new stuff, old stuff and just enjoy it for what it is. Of course, you're free to keep banging your head against any wall you choose to construct in your mind, but that's your choice. Not the world's; not hers; not mine.

No, I don't understand what you meant by suspend my disbelief.

 

I got no problems with trying new things. Since I moved to SoCal, I picked up social dancing, joined a couple of sports teams and tried to learn to surf. I'm also going to try and get back into my guitar.

I did not say 'cute', mind you. I said 'average-looking'. I guess though if you think the average-looking girl is cute, then they do qualify as 'cute'. That does not mean that all guys think so. There are more guys deluded into chasing the 20% best lookers than you think exist.

Yeah, I think the average not fat girl is cute. I don't even bother with the top 20%.

 

One of them has had only two guys express clear interest in her that I know of - one was a player and she wanted a proper relationship, and the other was double her age and her boss.

Wow, that seems really low. I figured that average girls get flirted with and hit on by at least one new guy a month.

Admittedly shyness puts a guy at a greater disadvantage than it does a girl, but looks (not even talking about weight, just the type of looks that you can't change without plastic surgery or extensive professional makeup) does put a girl at a greater disadvantage, generally speaking.

I just don't know any decent looking girls that were unhappily single. Maybe it's just the areas we live in.

 

How are you suppose to expect someone else to like you or even fall in love with you, when you don't even like yourself?

How are you supposed to love yourself if nobody else does or has ever done?

 

We all need encouragement that we mean something.

 

 

So instead of picking apart everyones responses and looking for ways to disengage from their advice, why not take it all as a whole and try applying it to your life?

A lot of the advice is stuff I've already done.

 

The most repeated pieces are to forget about her and find friends. OK I get it. I don't need people to keep telling me it over and over.

[Dust]

Somedude you always complain about how girls who say they can’t get a guy are just rejecting them all. You’re rejecting yourself!

[PelicanPete]

 

How are you supposed to love yourself if nobody else does or has ever done?

 

We all need encouragement that we mean something.

 

There are other people on Earth that love you, so no point in trying to sell that sob story.

 

You receive encouragement from having the courage to do things on your own. You're getting encouragement from people in this thread, hell Dust supports you so much he invited you to visit, but you don't have the courage to make changes to your pessimistic thinking.Perhaps this is why you haven't been very successful with relationships. It's too easy to be cynical and negative and try to find fault in everything and blame it on other people, it takes a lot more courage to accept things as a whole and work with what you have.

 

It's not your relationship with the girl that is the problem it is the relationship with yourself, and until you do something about that you're never going to get anywhere meaningful with her or any other human being. You don't have to give up on her, you don't have to try to go out and make friends with random people, but you do have to start learning how to make yourself happy without another person.

[ptp]

somedude,

 

I think I agree with Pete. I was saying stop using your height as a crutch and figure out what the real reason is you are unsuccessful with women.

 

Maybe Pete has found the real reason?

[olivec]

Listen somedude, i'm not trying to be hard on you. And i know how hard it is sometimes with women you wanna go freakin insane on them lol. However you must not let one person get you down like this, because your better than this girl trust me. You'll find a great girl its just gunna take time bro. In the mean time you learn to be more confident and think highly of yourself because a woman doesnt want some wimp ass man who's always down on himself its not attractive and you wont get anywhere with that approach. So you should start as of today to become the new and improved more confident "somedude" and then before you know it you'll become "the dude", and gettin chicks left and right. Good luck bro.

[betterdeal]

Surrogate mother-figure? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Oh now come on! You're a bright lad and now you're feigning stupidity. It doesn't wash and it doesn't suit you. When you feel down you fixate on her, like a child would go crying to mummy. You don't want to risk losing the convenience of your mother figure construct so you conjure up all manner of convoluted reasons to continue relying on it. It's all in your head: you created it of your own volition in your own head. She is the convenient vehicle that you project this on to.

 

You're scared. Nothing wrong with that - happens to the best of us - but this cornering yourself with faux ignorance is what is holding you back.

 

Yes building up my feelings for somebody who doesn't feel the same way is something I have a long history of doing. Once again, it's not my choice to fall for girls. It really sucks to have these feelings. If I could chose when and who I fell for, I would. That would have saved me a lot of pain and heartbreak.

 

Yes, you do choose to do it. It's in your head. Not mine. Not anyone else's. If you won't take the risk of making a move, and you won't grow up enough to not need to cling onto someone who may or may not want a sexual relationship with you, you will, by your own volition, your choice, be stuck in the corner you have painted yourself into.

 

You have to take risks. You have to change your thinking. Either you stop depending on her (or the icon of her in your mind, more accurately) or you make a move, knowing it may very well mean losing what you have, or it may mean moving on into something different, something more real and now, such as a bona fide relationship with her.

 

And one little thing to consider is this: your unfair and inauthentic way of treating her as a girlfriend when it suits you but not risking your own dignity or feelings when it doesn't suit you may well be what's holding her back from committing any more to you than she already has. In short, she may see you as a great guy but a bit too desperate to get too involved with.

 

There's no guarantees in life, but if you put 10% in you generally get 10% out. Either open up to her and accept you may be rejected, or continue as you are and you will continue going the way you have been. It's your choice.

[Els]

 

Yeah, I think the average not fat girl is cute. I don't even bother with the top 20%.

 

Wow, that seems really low. I figured that average girls get flirted with and hit on by at least one new guy a month.

 

I just don't know any decent looking girls that were unhappily single. Maybe it's just the areas we live in.

 

I think you do have a rather skewed perspective because you're looking at it from the guy point of view. Once a month, really, where are you getting your figures from? Perhaps it also depends on what you mean by being 'flirted with and hit on', I guess. I am sure if those girls went to a nightclub or something, they would get hit on by the guys 'doing their rounds', because those guys would approach every single girl in the club. But they don't go to nightclubs, and even if they did get hit on like that, I don't think it would count. Do you?

 

When I say 'asked out', I do mean that the guy has to have clear interest in that girl in particular for a relationship, the same sort of interest that would lead a girl to accept a relationship with you. I am sure if you went to a nightclub and tried to get every single girl to sleep with you, one would eventually agree. But that isn't what you want, and neither is it what they want.

[somedude81]

There are other people on Earth that love you, so no point in trying to sell that sob story.

Even though I didn't say it, was talking about people that aren't family. We have to make friends and work to keep them. Same thing goes for getting another person interested and to really care about you. I failed in that aspect.

 

If a had a funeral right now, it would just be family there, and that's sad.

 

You receive encouragement from having the courage to do things on your own. You're getting encouragement from people in this thread,

Eh, it's different with people online. It's just not the same thing as in real life.

 

you don't have the courage to make changes to your pessimistic thinking.Perhaps this is why you haven't been very successful with relationships. It's too easy to be cynical and negative and try to find fault in everything and blame it on other people, it takes a lot more courage to accept things as a whole and work with what you have.

I don't blame other people. I fully blame myself. I'm the one who screwed up. Granted I believe that I was never given the tools needed to actually succeed. So if I blame any one it's God.

 

I wonder if pessimistic thinking has affected my potential relationships. I try to always be positive out in public and especially around women so I don't see how being pessimistic plays a part.

 

It's not your relationship with the girl that is the problem it is the relationship with yourself, and until you do something about that you're never going to get anywhere meaningful with her or any other human being. You don't have to give up on her, you don't have to try to go out and make friends with random people, but you do have to start learning how to make yourself happy without another person.

Why should I have to learn how to make myself happy without another person? Being without a partner is not normal for humans.

 

Just because I have trouble attracting girls means I should be happy by myself?

Listen somedude, i'm not trying to be hard on you. And i know how hard it is sometimes with women you wanna go freakin insane on them lol. However you must not let one person get you down like this, because your better than this girl trust me. You'll find a great girl its just gunna take time bro. In the mean time you learn to be more confident and think highly of yourself because a woman doesnt want some wimp ass man who's always down on himself its not attractive and you wont get anywhere with that approach. So you should start as of today to become the new and improved more confident "somedude" and then before you know it you'll become "the dude", and gettin chicks left and right. Good luck bro.

She doesn't do anything to get me down, I'm the one who is making myself upset. She's just another girl who doesn't like me. I know I'm overreacting to what she does. Though stopping it is more complicated.

 

One doesn't learn to be more confidence. Confidence comes from success. Which I have not had.

Oh now come on! You're a bright lad and now you're feigning stupidity. It doesn't wash and it doesn't suit you. When you feel down you fixate on her, like a child would go crying to mummy. You don't want to risk losing the convenience of your mother figure construct so you conjure up all manner of convoluted reasons to continue relying on it. It's all in your head: you created it of your own volition in your own head. She is the convenient vehicle that you project this on to.

 

You're scared. Nothing wrong with that - happens to the best of us - but this cornering yourself with faux ignorance is what is holding you back.

I do not see her as a mother figure, that's ridiculous.

 

I do not turn to her when I feel down. She would see that as needy and that's not how I want to come across to her. I only want her to see me being fun, happy and positive.

 

Yes, you do choose to do it. It's in your head. Not mine. Not anyone else's. If you won't take the risk of making a move, and you won't grow up enough to not need to cling onto someone who may or may not want a sexual relationship with you, you will, by your own volition, your choice, be stuck in the corner you have painted yourself into.

 

You have to take risks. You have to change your thinking. Either you stop depending on her (or the icon of her in your mind, more accurately) or you make a move, knowing it may very well mean losing what you have, or it may mean moving on into something different, something more real and now, such as a bona fide relationship with her.

I know I need to take a risk with her. Unfortunately things kept happening where I didn't really get an chance. I know that sounds like an excuse but I was waiting for the right moment to happen.

 

Also, we've only hung out three times this summer. None of them has been what I'd call romantic. Plus I had her home by six each time which really put a lid on what I could do. I'm trying to plan a full day activity for next week where I can try something. If not then, it will be during the school semester when she's back living on campus which is 5 min from me vs. her parents house which is 30 minutes away.

 

And one little thing to consider is this: your unfair and inauthentic way of treating her as a girlfriend when it suits you but not risking your own dignity or feelings when it doesn't suit you may well be what's holding her back from committing any more to you than she already has. In short, she may see you as a great guy but a bit too desperate to get too involved with.

I don't know what you mean by not risking me dignity or feelings.

 

She may see me as desperate. I'm having trouble finding the balance between being interested and not interested; coming on too strong and not strong enough.

 

I am sure to give her space and I only try to make plans with her once a week. When I went away on vacation for a week and a half, I didn't contact her at all. And now that she's on her vacation I'll leave her alone. It's been about three weeks since I last saw her. I don't want her to forget about me.

 

There's no guarantees in life, but if you put 10% in you generally get 10% out. Either open up to her and accept you may be rejected, or continue as you are and you will continue going the way you have been. It's your choice.

By open up to her do you mean make a move? She knows that I like her a lot. I'm not going to let her pretend that I just want friendship.

 

I think you do have a rather skewed perspective because you're looking at it from the guy point of view. Once a month, really, where are you getting your figures from? Perhaps it also depends on what you mean by being 'flirted with and hit on', I guess. I am sure if those girls went to a nightclub or something, they would get hit on by the guys 'doing their rounds', because those guys would approach every single girl in the club. But they don't go to nightclubs, and even if they did get hit on like that, I don't think it would count. Do you?

 

When I say 'asked out', I do mean that the guy has to have clear interest in that girl in particular for a relationship, the same sort of interest that would lead a girl to accept a relationship with you. I am sure if you went to a nightclub and tried to get every single girl to sleep with you, one would eventually agree. But that isn't what you want, and neither is it what they want.

Nope I don't count bars or nightclubs, nor creepy guys who hit on everything. But I do count something like sitting at a coffee shop and a guy walks up to her and wants to get to know her better and asks for her number or to have dinner with her. And I'm sure each girl had several guys in school who wanted to date them.

 

That's one thing I'd want to ask her about. How often she gets hit on. She's pretty, but not a knockout and doesn't put in any effort in trying to attract men. I highly doubt I'm the only guy who has wanted to date her.

[betterdeal]

I don't get it. You keep on planning life, her, the big moment, and it consistently doesn't work, and yet you keep doing it. What you call planning is actually fantasising. Enjoy your fantasies, sure, but what's holding you back from calling her right now and saying something unambiguous, kind and honest to her?

[somedude81]

I don't get it. You keep on planning life, her, the big moment, and it consistently doesn't work, and yet you keep doing it. What you call planning is actually fantasising. Enjoy your fantasies, sure, but what's holding you back from calling her right now and saying something unambiguous, kind and honest to her?

Right now she's in Vegas with her family.

 

But that's not even a reason. Even is she was in town I still wouldn't call her and tell her how I feel. That's not going to accomplish anything.

 

Back in May we had a talk about us where everything was said. And she said that she didn't want to date. Shortly after that we started going out and doing stuff.

 

I'm feeling a strong disparity between her words and her actions. I get the impression that talking to her and activating her logical side isn't the way to go.

 

That's why I'm trying to plan a date where we can spend a lot of time together and she can let herself relax. In it, hopefully a right moment will present itself.

 

As for things consistently not working out with her and with other women, I feel that somebody is toying with me. I've had so many plans go wrong. My favorite one was when I had a girl in my apartment and she was sitting on my bed telling me about her girl girl experiences in great detail. Both of us were getting horny and right when I was about to do something, she gets a phone call from her dad telling her that he's at her apartment, waiting for her. I got all kinds of stories of things that just went wrong.

[betterdeal]

I'll tell you a story. When I was in my early twenties, I was hanging out with this utterly gorgeous woman. She passed for Claudia Schieffer in the right light. And was (and is) totally sound, a great laugh, kind, irreverent, real, sexually confident. We were best friends. And I fancied the pants off her, but I was always convinced that there was something stopping her from fancying me. One night we went clubbing and headed back. She invited me to her place, we were on Ecstacy, and she stripped down to her bra and knickers and sat right in front of me, saying nothing.

 

What did I do? I thought, "Jesus she's beautiful, but what if I'm not reading the signals right? And what if I'm a crap shag - she's beautiful and must have had some great shags and I'm so inexperienced, besides, she's my best friend, and I don't want to abuse that trust blah blah blah", made a makeshift bed out of pillows on the floor and pretended to sleep for 6 hours, then went home.

 

Honestly. I was screwed up by that (and several other similar instances where she handed it to me on a plate) and was going crazy trying to work it out - did she fancy me, did she not?

 

Can you believe that? Even the night of my birthday, years later, when she started kissing me on the lips on the dancefloor and saying, "I need you!" in a lighthearted voice.

 

There were lots of causes to me being such an annoying push me pull you guy. In love on and off but always rejected her when she made a move. Some causes emotional; some physical; some idealogical; some historical.

 

I was 36 when I finally got it. The things holding me, the person toying with me, was me. Thinking too much was not getting me anywhere, fast, save an early grave from being so miserable and self-medicating. It took taking a leap of faith and suspending my disbelief, to stop arguing against things I hadn't tried wholeheartedly, and making a whole heap of mistakes en route.

 

But. It has worked. Aside from throwing myself headlong into a very difficult relationship with someone with as many (if very different) issues as me, I found hypnotherapy was really helpful in unlocking all the fear, confronting the things I had locked away in my mind, and moving on to become a much happier person.

 

So yes, suspend your disbelief. Try out things like hypnotherapy and stop planning so much and start doing more.

Edited August 9, 2011 by betterdeal

[somedude81]

Wow, that was a crazy story. Sh*t if anything remotely that obvious happened to me I would be all over her.

 

I wish I had some experiences where it was obvious that the girl wanted me and was waiting for me to act. Aside from the girl I "dated" for two weeks, I can't think of any other girls that I actually had sure thing with.

 

Now I understand what you mean by suspend your disbelief. The disbelief that a woman could want me.

 

Though that's not my issue. I have asked out every girl that I thought could be interested in me. More often than not, I misunderstood a girl being friendly as a sign that she was interested.

 

I got a couple of threads that cover that issue

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t250864/

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=268405

 

I had never considered hypnothreapy. I wonder what it can do.

[betterdeal]

Try it. And stop thinking does she like me so much and start thinking, do I like her, some more.

[somedude81]

Of course I like her. I want her to be a part of my life.

 

I went to my cousins wedding a couple of weeks ago and the whole time I was there I was wishing she'd be my +1. I know she has a cousin getting married soon and it would be great if she invited me as her guest.

 

I'm a little bummed out that she's in Vegas right now without me. We could have a lot of fun. I haven't gone any where 'big' with her yet. I'm considering inviting her to go to an amusement park with me when she gets back.

 

I know exactly how I feel about her and what I want from her.

[triponsynth]

Nope I don't count bars or nightclubs, nor creepy guys who hit on everything. But I do count something like sitting at a coffee shop and a guy walks up to her and wants to get to know her better and asks for her number or to have dinner with her. And I'm sure each girl had several guys in school who wanted to date them.

 

That's one thing I'd want to ask her about. How often she gets hit on. She's pretty, but not a knockout and doesn't put in any effort in trying to attract men. I highly doubt I'm the only guy who has wanted to date her.

Ha, I consider myself to be a physically fit, average/ average-plus looking girl, and I didn't get hit on at all until I was about 21 and those times were few and far between. I did not date at all until 2 years ago, at 24 when I signed up for a couple of dating sites. I only got maybe one message a week, mostly from disgusting horny guys who lived at least 100 miles away, and most of the messages that I sent out myself were ignored.

 

I do have a boyfriend now, but I can actually relate to a lot of things you are saying. Though I do have shyness/slight anxiety issues, I have never been depressed. However, I would get really irritated when people would tell me to be more confident and to work on myself before finding a boyfriend. I had already built up some confidence, as I had hobbies I enjoyed, friends to hang out with, and was pretty good at my job. But the not having a boyfriend, not dating, and not even having anyone being attracted to me was the only thing that was really messing with my confidence, especially when all of my friends had such an easier time of things. Being a late bloomer with dating isn't something that people who have never been in that situation can really understand. When such a big thing has always been missing, it is hard to buck up and not let the negative feelings eat at you, especially when those negative self doubting thoughts always seem to be proven true.

 

But despite that, you have to learn to not let it consume you, and to keep trying. It took me about two years of active online dating to find boyfriend out of it, and I couldn't let every rejection get to me, whether it was just someone ignoring or rejecting a message, or someone I already met doing the rejecting. I'm sure it's more difficult with people that you have known in real life for a while, like the girl you are dealing with, but it'll be a new semester for you soon, with new opportunities for dating. You just have to continuously put yourself out there in order to make it happen. I know that is lame advice, but it really truly is the only way you can move on, and gain some experience.

 

By the way, I'm 5'7, and had no issue dating a guy that was 5'6 once. Shorter guys can very attractive when they carry themselves as such.

[Dust]

I'll tell you a story. When I was in my early twenties, I was hanging out with this utterly gorgeous woman. She passed for Claudia Schieffer in the right light. And was (and is) totally sound, a great laugh, kind, irreverent, real, sexually confident. We were best friends. And I fancied the pants off her, but I was always convinced that there was something stopping her from fancying me. One night we went clubbing and headed back. She invited me to her place, we were on Ecstacy, and she stripped down to her bra and knickers and sat right in front of me, saying nothing.

 

What did I do? I thought, "Jesus she's beautiful, but what if I'm not reading the signals right? And what if I'm a crap shag - she's beautiful and must have had some great shags and I'm so inexperienced, besides, she's my best friend, and I don't want to abuse that trust blah blah blah", made a makeshift bed out of pillows on the floor and pretended to sleep for 6 hours, then went home.

 

Honestly. I was screwed up by that (and several other similar instances where she handed it to me on a plate) and was going crazy trying to work it out - did she fancy me, did she not?

 

Can you believe that? Even the night of my birthday, years later, when she started kissing me on the lips on the dancefloor and saying, "I need you!" in a lighthearted voice.

 

There were lots of causes to me being such an annoying push me pull you guy. In love on and off but always rejected her when she made a move. Some causes emotional; some physical; some idealogical; some historical.

 

I was 36 when I finally got it. The things holding me, the person toying with me, was me. Thinking too much was not getting me anywhere, fast, save an early grave from being so miserable and self-medicating. It took taking a leap of faith and suspending my disbelief, to stop arguing against things I hadn't tried wholeheartedly, and making a whole heap of mistakes en route.

 

But. It has worked. Aside from throwing myself headlong into a very difficult relationship with someone with as many (if very different) issues as me, I found hypnotherapy was really helpful in unlocking all the fear, confronting the things I had locked away in my mind, and moving on to become a much happier person.

 

So yes, suspend your disbelief. Try out things like hypnotherapy and stop planning so much and start doing more.

 

Great story, but painful to read. It always comes back to not believing in our selves.

 

 

Wow, that was a crazy story. Sh*t if anything remotely that obvious happened to me I would be all over her.

 

I wish I had some experiences where it was obvious that the girl wanted me and was waiting for me to act. Aside from the girl I "dated" for two weeks, I can't think of any other girls that I actually had sure thing with.

 

Now I understand what you mean by suspend your disbelief. The disbelief that a woman could want me.

 

Though that's not my issue. I have asked out every girl that I thought could be interested in me. More often than not, I misunderstood a girl being friendly as a sign that she was interested.

 

I got a couple of threads that cover that issue

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t250864/

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=268405

 

I had never considered hypnothreapy. I wonder what it can do.

 

From his perspective it wasn’t a sure thing. You’ve already brought girls back to your place and not done so much as put a finger on them. So, what I’m saying is you’re all talk Somedude.

 

He had the same “what if I screw up, what if she stops liking me” fears you do. Yet you hear his story and can’t see it.

 

If I were given the opportunities you are given on a regular basis Somedude I’d be all over it most men would say. I wish I had something as obvious as a girl agreeing to come back and play “video games” most guys would tell you.

[olivec]

He will never get ithes too hard headed. Listen i got down with a worthless piece of skin and it took alot out of of me for "awhile". However you snap out of it and get back in the game. Somedude thinks too much with this **** and weve all been there but you gotta just say screw it and enjoy your life and have fun. everybody is telling him that for god sakes. Personally i'd drop the broad myself and look elsewhere.

[olivec]

I'll tell you a story. When I was in my early twenties, I was hanging out with this utterly gorgeous woman. She passed for Claudia Schieffer in the right light. And was (and is) totally sound, a great laugh, kind, irreverent, real, sexually confident. We were best friends. And I fancied the pants off her, but I was always convinced that there was something stopping her from fancying me. One night we went clubbing and headed back. She invited me to her place, we were on Ecstacy, and she stripped down to her bra and knickers and sat right in front of me, saying nothing.

 

What did I do? I thought, "Jesus she's beautiful, but what if I'm not reading the signals right? And what if I'm a crap shag - she's beautiful and must have had some great shags and I'm so inexperienced, besides, she's my best friend, and I don't want to abuse that trust blah blah blah", made a makeshift bed out of pillows on the floor and pretended to sleep for 6 hours, then went home.

 

Honestly. I was screwed up by that (and several other similar instances where she handed it to me on a plate) and was going crazy trying to work it out - did she fancy me, did she not?

 

Can you believe that? Even the night of my birthday, years later, when she started kissing me on the lips on the dancefloor and saying, "I need you!" in a lighthearted voice.

 

There were lots of causes to me being such an annoying push me pull you guy. In love on and off but always rejected her when she made a move. Some causes emotional; some physical; some idealogical; some historical.

 

I was 36 when I finally got it. The things holding me, the person toying with me, was me. Thinking too much was not getting me anywhere, fast, save an early grave from being so miserable and self-medicating. It took taking a leap of faith and suspending my disbelief, to stop arguing against things I hadn't tried wholeheartedly, and making a whole heap of mistakes en route.

 

But. It has worked. Aside from throwing myself headlong into a very difficult relationship with someone with as many (if very different) issues as me, I found hypnotherapy was really helpful in unlocking all the fear, confronting the things I had locked away in my mind, and moving on to become a much happier person.

 

So yes, suspend your disbelief. Try out things like hypnotherapy and stop planning so much and start doing more.

 

 

Thats too bad man. Do you still think you might ever get another chance with her or is she with somebody/married?

[betterdeal]

She has a child and fiancé, so no. Am I a little sad about that? Sure, but this is relatively recent that I've come to terms with what I did and thought at the time(s) and what reality was. I've largely dealt with that sense of loss and let it go. I feel 24 now (I'm 37). Prior to the past 18 months, I felt 56 and acted 17. It is a huge relief to get out of that state of arrested development, that perpetual fear of fear.

 

As I said, it was not just lack of self-confidence: there were several causes to that lack of self-confidence, and I have been dealing with them, with the occasional breakthrough or leap, occasionally falling flag on my face and picking myself up, taking myself to my edge each day, getting professional help when I feel the need, and just enjoying life.

 

I have many other stories like that. All not seeing the wood for the trees. I just hope that the OP can maybe, just for a little bit, consider that he might be doing something similar, and start seeing it from a different angle.