! It's brutal! It's a mess....at work!

[NU42]

Peirre, hehehe, you are right in part.

 

However, our relationship wasn't just sex........

 

Yes she probably loves this guy.......

 

Just keep kicking me.........

[NU42]

Not to defend her, but she isn't scruffy. She's stunningly beautiful and had been my close friend for 10 years, which is the reason I / we still feel compelled to talk ..........

[Heart On]

Heart On,

You said she is codependent with BOTH of us? Please explain how I am involved in the codependent relationship with her? I'm intrigued. Learning. Want to know more.

 

Let me preface this by stating,I am NO professional.But I have had years of therapy and plenty of time to research and learn on my own,not to mention,this forum is not my first rodeo! I have been in enough to have been helped along by some very smart and compassionate people.

 

So really, I am just trying to point my finger,NOT save you...lol....and hope that you look and understand what others have written and come up with to help us all understand dysfunctional realtionship dynamics.I figure if I can figure some of this out just by reading,so can anyone!

 

The word Co-dependant isn't meant to be taken literally. It defines a way of living and being within unhealthy and sometimes toxic relationships.

Besides being about tolerating abuse in the name of toxic love or (love addictions),it's about rescuing,fixing,seeking someone outside ourselves to define us,losing ourselves to others needs,sh*t.....Just plain CARING more about others than ourselves.

 

Seems to me,while you are trying to "save her" from herself,she is trying to "save him" from himself.That's what makes this the perfect triangulation.

 

And that's where you come into this.

 

The relationship you have had with her is no less healthy than the one she has with her abusive B/F because it's been an affair and thereby,makes it dangerous and risky to her well being and safety.

 

Since he now knows of your existance,as I said before,staying in contact with her puts you AND her at risk if you continue to have any contact with her.Not to mention your daughter.You know this man is volatile and has anger management issues and is controlling and manipulative even if he is

"odd looking".He could actually be more dangerous than even she knows.

 

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/codependency.htm

 

They have strong sexual fantasies and consider having affairs with others.

 

(Even if they are intended to be exit affairs,due to an abusive relationship

which is why I began mine with a man who seemed to need rescuing and so did I!)

 

This site discusses the Borderline Personality Disordered, which she could very well have traits of if she came from an abusive background and could explain even more why she is with her BF and you.

 

http://gettinbetter.com/waif.html

 

This next one I found to help you see your own stuff.

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14696-overcoming-the-need-to-fix/

 

Being a "fixer'' is a powerful position which gives you a sense of importance, being special, and a reason for being.

 

 

* Although "fixing'' looks altruistic, it is really a self-centered behavior because the outcome is not so much for the other's benefit but to make you feel good, relaxed, at peace in that things are the way they "should be.''

 

* Giving advice, offering solutions and directing choices puts you in a "power'' and "controlling'' position over those things you are trying to fix.

 

 

Read the rest and tell me how your relationships isn't about codependency on both your parts.Not judging....by any means.I only know about all this thanks to my awareness of my own codependant traits.

 

I wanted to add,even your profession screams ""Fixer" if you hadn't noticed.

 

That's not a bad thing,as long as you have HEALTHY boundaries in your personal and professional relationships.

 

I lost my ability to have healthy boundaries as a child thanks to having been sexually abused and raised by an Alcoholic, Narcissitic 'Mother' and had to learn what they were and how to impose them as an adult.

 

I am sure you know about Professional Ethics and how not to cross them.

 

Consider yourself to have crossed some personal ethics by involving yourself with someone who is "off limits" because she is in a relationship,not to mention,someone you work with...and maybe find a way to pull yourself out so you don't get hurt.

 

She has made her choice.And thankfully, for your sake, it's not you.

 

Believe me when i say,you need to save yourself before you go trying to save others.

 

She needs to save herself from her own problems and own them and deal with them without you feeling responsible for her.

 

She is NOT your problem.

 

I hope this helps....it's alot to grasp.

 

Just do yourself a favor....ask her to stop coming into your office and go live the life with him she chose for herself.

 

And work on why you feel the need to rescue women.

[NU42]

Heart On, that is genious analysis. You may not be a professional, but you know your stuff.

 

I don't know why I feel a rescue mentality with her. I've always dated very independent women.

 

So ....she just sent me an email and said "Dad would have been 66 today". He died about 10 years ago.

 

Again ....she's tugging. I just responded by saying "I'm sorry. Hang in there"

[Heart On]

Not to defend her, but she isn't scruffy. She's stunningly beautiful and had been my close friend for 10 years, which is the reason I / we still feel compelled to talk ..........

 

If she is your friend,she will leave you alone,knowing

how much this hurts you that she chose him over you.

 

Just keep kicking me.........

 

Ok...you asked for it!

Turn off your hard-on for her and wake up!

She is not all that.She's with someone.

If she wanted to be with you,she would be.

 

Ouch...that sucks to write.

 

sorry.

[NU42]

Heart On .....no worries. lol Thank you!!

 

I'll keep coming back for more!!

[Heart On]

At the risk of overposting.....

 

Heart On, that is genious analysis. You may not be a professional, but you know your stuff.

 

Yeah...lived it and learned it the HARD WAY!

 

I don't know why I feel a rescue mentality with her. I've always dated very independent women.

 

So ....she just sent me an email and said "Dad would have been 66 today". He died about 10 years ago.

 

Again ....she's tugging. I just responded by saying "I'm sorry. Hang in there"

 

 

There is something called projection identification.

It's when we can feel others pain and relate to it TOO much.

Why we so easily get sucked into pity ploys or sincere complains by others.

 

I think that's where most codependancy(over-caring) stems from.

 

So if I may,I think that when your wife left you for another man,OUCH,and left you vulnerable, you could identify with this woman's unhappiness and really what you wanted was to be rescued yourself.

 

How's that for a Freudian analysis?

 

I should have my masters degree in Psychology by now....they said it was in the mail!

 

BY THE WAY....I obviously still have issues with projection identification or I wouldn't even be here offering my insight!

 

So don't feel too badly for wanting to help her or yourself.

 

Life can be DAMN hard....

[phillyfan]

Wow....you may have some decent advice,

but the text lingo has GOT to go!

It reads so ignorant and uneducated,I

couldn't imagine taking your advice as you

come off like a teenager without anything but thumbs!.

 

Dude that aint nice, sum of us had 2 leave school early 2 look afta family, my writin aint great but i try. U shudnt judge.

[Owl]

I think you're smurfed.

 

You've put yourself into a no-win, fail situation.

 

There's a reason why everyone screams "NC!!!".

 

You've built up a situation where you are destined to fail. Point blank. Your world is going to crash.

 

Either you need to change the job situation...or she does...or this is going to continue to haunt you and grow and get bigger and bigger until the resolution comes from something external to the situation. Her BF, your partners, some external legal action...

 

There is no happy ending in the future that I can forsee for you.

 

All you can do at this point is to try to steer for the least damaging solution you can find.

[TurboGirl]

Ok...

 

did you talk with her yet? Set the boundary? And now that I see she is not a peer, but a subordinate, DAMN what where you thinking? (ummm ok, I know, I know, but still!)

 

Seriously... I am thinking this girl is competely out of touch about how you feel/felt about her. She emails you about her DAD? WTF? Doesn't she have any girlfriends to talk with? All she seems to care about is that loser BF she is hooked up with. She wants to "save him" and you want to "save her from him" This is not going to work, NU. She must be completely oblivious about how much she hurt you. Easy come, easy to go her, I am sensing this.

 

Think about what comes along with her laugh and the smell of her perfume....drama - and I mean drama like you have never known, the kind that can be brought on by a drug addict/alcoholic boyfriend - pain - she will always be "saving" the father of her children. This is the kind of BS that can envelope you and take you down along with her, NU. You have a great career... I don't think this girl would be good for the long run. Could end up hurting your career. Have you thought about that?

 

Think about the bad stuff that comes along with her...and that should help keep your feelings in check and hopefully feel better and move on.

[whichwayisup]

If she is a reasonable and understanding woman then she will have respect for you by telling her that you can't handle a friendship, that it's killing you inside to be around her, talk to her (as a friend), be in her life. Fact is, for whatever her reasons are, (and they are valid to her, whether you understand it or not) she has chosen the father of her children. Like it or not, agree with her decision or not, it's a done deal. Somehow you HAVE to accept this reality and make her understand that you can't be her shoulder on ANY level. Explain to her how much it hurts you and how selfish is for her to keep you in her life under these circumstances. If she truly cares about your wellbeing and mental health, she will do as you ask...Leave you alone and detach, not rely on you for emotional support. She can talk to her family and women friends, rely on them, not you.

 

It's only way. If you allow her to stay in your life YOU WILL BE THE ONE hurting more and more, putting your life on hold. You need to grieve and allow yourself to heal and detach from her daily life.

 

The choice is yours, as painful as it'll be, it's something you need to do..

 

Keep posting and im sorry you're hurting.

[phillyfan]

You know philly......your style kinda put me off at first but I think you are AOK and you offer up some great advice.

 

Thanks dude

[stillafool]

Dude

 

You are single and with a professional degree. The betrayed husband is a loser,a drunk, and not as good looking as you.

 

Why do you want a woman that has such poor taste in men. What does that say about you? Why do you aim so low in looking for a mate?

 

Why would a lawyer want a scruffy woman married to a drunk with two kids?

 

I can see the angle of easy sex, but I cannot see why you want her as a mate?

 

 

How do you know this woman is scruffy? You know nothing about her. She obviously isn't stupid, she's a paralegal for God's sake. Her husband may not have been a drunk when she married him and he is the father of her kids.

[stillafool]

You know philly......your style kinda put me off at first but I think you are AOK and you offer up some great advice.

 

I'll second that!

[stillafool]

Next big question ......her B-Day is next week? Do I give her a card? Do I even wish her a happy B-Day?

 

Of course say happy B-Day like everyone else. Do not do anything special for her, not even a card. Do be nice. I hope you get a chance to show her you are going to date someone else. I guarantee you she will not be happy.

[NU42]

Look! Everybody! I love the feedback and advice! That's why I'm here.

 

But I can tell you she's not scruffy. She left me for this questionable guy and may have too many issues for me to handle. However, she raised herself and her sisters because her alcoholic parents were gone for days at a time. And although she enables this acoholic boyfriend of hers, she's been supporting herself and her boys. On top of that, she had a heart pacemaker put in two years ago -- at the age of 30 -- and fought through it to continue working and raising her kids. So she has some admirable qualities. NOTE: Her boyfriend didn't even go to the her surgery .....but I did.

 

Anyway, I know she has issues. I suspect she's been damaged in her life. I get it. But I'm confident she loves me. I'm confident she needs me. And I know she's trapped with this guy. I just need to decide whether I have the strength and patience to wait see what happens. Or, should I adopt NC and move on.

 

Seriously, hasn't anybody here had a relationship that took a few twists and turn along the way .....and turned out well? I'm not saying that is going to happen. I'm confused and in pain. But I'm afraid that if I set harsh boundries and adopt a NC plan, I am closing out any possibilities of this thing someday working out.

 

Perhaps I'm foolish.......

[NU42]

And by the way .......she isn't married to the other guy. They've never been married. She would never marry him because of their problems. they just live together with the kids........

[NU42]

And our relationship was more than just sexual. We've always been the best of friends. Very emotional connection. We always considered ourselves to be soul-mates.

[Owl]

So...what were you hoping to hear, posting on LS?

 

You posted your situation...you were given a lot of advice...and now you're spending a good bit of effort trying to defend your situation.

 

What are you hoping we can do for you?

[whichwayisup]

And our relationship was more than just sexual. We've always been the best of friends. Very emotional connection. We always considered ourselves to be soul-mates.

 

But this isn't a strong enough bond to keep her. The bond she has with him is stronger, not only because of the kids, but because she isn't done with him. SOMETHING is keeping her there with him. You may not like what I have to say, but some women and men get addicted to the highs and lows of their dysfunctional relationship and the sex IS addictive,,,Make up sex after things go bad. There is another poster (someone will remember her name, and post her link, sorry I forget) she was with a MM and he and his wife had SUCH an unhealthy dynamic, police were involved, drugs were found in their place (wife was a drug user) he kept going back and forth..Guess what? He's still with his crazy wife who is into drugs and the OW finally realized this and walked away. she couldn't compete with their unhealthy dynamic, history and the fact they had kids together... I'm sorry, but this woman has this dynamic with the father of her children. she is messed up inside and nothing you do or say will change that.

 

Move on, let her see this and MAYBE, just maybe, she'll realize she's going to lose you in every way, she'll wake up and get help, seek therapy and get away from her ex to be with you. Anything short of that is her indecision to do nothing and have you both in her life....

[Emme]

We need someone in that office to run interference for you. Employ some old white haired lady with attitude. Only thing is she won't know what purpose she really serves. Tell them to announce everyone and only give passage to two people in the firm you will need to talk to on a daily basis. Just an idea. Think about it. This situation can only get worse if you don't put a stop to it now.

[NU42]

Owl, I was only defending the suggestion that I was using the relationship for the sex and that she is "scruffy" person. I'm not exactly sure what "scruffy" means. I just want to make sure the advice I am getting is based upon a detailed understand of my circumstances.

[TurboGirl]

And by the way .......she isn't married to the other guy. They've never been married. She would never marry him because of their problems. they just live together with the kids........

 

Well she might as well be married...that doesn't always matter... she caved right away, didn't she when he found out about you? And when you tell me that she raised herself AND her sisters...b/c of her alcoholic parents... Her wanting to stay with and take care of this guy makes even more warped sense... she is codependent and needs to go to Alanon. It is a cycle - she is repeating what she did for her sister growing up. And YOU need to be careful here, because you can easily become codependent on her... trying to save her, enabling her, etc.

 

Nobody is saying she is scruffy... obviously a hard worker and dedicated, but her choices are messed up. This loser bf is holding her back, and she is the only one who can make that change in her life. She has to see it.

 

NC would be kinda impossible given your work situation. But you can detach to take care of yourself and set boundaries. Don't get her a birthday card or a gift, you can say Happy Birthday with the rest of the office. THE END. No birthday lunches, birthday dinners, please please no private time alone. She needs to feel what it would be like in the world without you so close to her, always being there to lend a shoulder, lend a hand, etc. That would be your only chance, IMHO, to see if she can make a change. But honestly, without some kind of therapy or counseling, I think that she will still be in the same mess living the same life 5 or 10 years from now.

 

I think you need to step way back and give yourself say, 2 or 3 months... detach... no contact outside of professional discussions, no chummy little office chats. Go and date some other women, please! You need to get some perspective here and buy yourself some time. After you put into action some of the advice you are getting here you will feel better and you will understand what we are all talking about. It is about taking your control over your personal life back... not counting on another person who is committed to someone else. Yeah, I know that you are sad. No one has a crystal ball here to see the future. Only time will tell.

[Heart On]

And our relationship was more than just sexual. We've always been the best of friends. Very emotional connection. We always considered ourselves to be soul-mates. Today 4:27 PMAnd by the way .......she isn't married to the other guy. They've never been married. She would never marry him because of their problems. they just live together with the kids.And our relationship was more than just sexual. We've always been the best of friends. Very emotional connection. We always considered ourselves to be soul-mates

 

So if she's not married,why does she stay with him if she's got such a great situation to run to? I know I left my marriage over a loser,but I still left without hesitation or regrets.Not even my kids could keep me with a man who threatened to hit me, after years of tolerating verbal abuse like I was some sort of POS.

 

Anyway, I know she has issues. I suspect she's been damaged in her life. I get it. But I'm confident she loves me. I'm confident she needs me. And I know she's trapped with this guy. I just need to decide whether I have the strength and patience to wait see what happens. Or, should I adopt NC and move on.

 

Seriously, hasn't anybody here had a relationship that took a few twists and turn along the way .....and turned out well? I'm not saying that is going to happen. I'm confused and in pain. But I'm afraid that if I set harsh boundries and adopt a NC plan, I am closing out any possibilities of this thing someday working out.

 

Perhaps I'm foolish......

 

Perhaps.....but love is blind. I waited for 24 years for my xhusband to change and 5 years for my xMM to change...I wasted ALOT of my life waiting for nothing to ever change.In the end,I had to change and stop hoping for them to change.Divorce and saying goodbye to the xMM and NEVER speaking to him again....changed my life more than waiting ever could or would.

 

You could always just stand by her, no matter what, for years to come.

 

You do have choices.No one can tell you what to do or how to do it.

 

We are all just strangers (who don't really know all the dynamics nor do we have crystal balls) trying to help you out.

 

Do your thang. It's your life.No need to defend yourself here.

 

We wouldn't be here if we were all so damn smart! lol

[stillafool]

Whichwayisup is right! I thought she was married to this guy. Even if he is the kids dad; I'm surprised she doesn't see it as more unhealthy to keep her kids in the house with an alcoholic when she doesn't have to. To be honest it sounds like she is in love with him and has the best of both worlds going right now. You have to show her another side if you want her, otherwise the position you are in right now will go on forever. You can't go complete NC with a paralegal that works for your firm. You have to talk about business, but you don't have to talk about her/your personal life anymore. Make her miss you.