bentnotbroken Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sometimes I think cheaters come on here and want to be coddled and have a cheering section. The selfishness and entitlement is just unbelievable. Well said. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Just curious... At what point is a cheater deserving of receiving help? What if a cheater honestly wants help? It seems many on here would just assume they are not deserving of any help at all hence the bashing. Different question...who gets to decide what is help? I don't call coddling help and you don't call blunt talk help...so who gets to decide? Link to post Share on other sites
What_Next Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Uh, unless you haven't been around to get the memo, this is a PUBLIC FORUM and ANYBODY can post their opinions within the TOS. You don't have to agree with them. Really? I hadn't noticed that. I guess you've earned your junior G-man badge, or perhaps Captain obvious. Next... Link to post Share on other sites
What_Next Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I'm very new here. I'm the WS. I came on here originally to get support to help me cope with continuing my affair. After reading all the replies to my OP, I realized I want to change my ways. I was only scared off when I was in "the fog". I think staying in the guidelines are good. Thanks, everyone, so far! Don't give up on people like me that have f'ed up our lives so bad! Newoman, if this is true, go back to your original thread and start posting. If you are indeed sincere, you will get advice, you are likely to still get criticism as well, but don't let it get you down. Take it, learn from it and if necessary defend yourself. An example like this is perfect case to show that cheaters need to hear the TRUTH. Those that wish to form a cheering section (and they KNOW who they are) will still chime in, but those of us that call it like we see it will also have our say. Now go back to your thread and get actively involved, be prepared for some harsh words, but develop a thick skin. Off topic I know, but in a way it is on topic, then again it's Friday and maybe I just don't give a hoot Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Different question...who gets to decide what is help? I don't call coddling help and you don't call blunt talk help...so who gets to decide? I actually think both can be helpful. It is when the name calling starts that I don't agree with. I don't think name calling=help. Actually the blunt posts have helped me dig the deepest. Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Interesting. We've been having a very similar discussion on the marriageadvocates forums. I think you're absolutely right. But I think it's because of the raw feelings on the part of newly betrayeds, plus the "fact" that an affair seems so obviously wrong 2 most everyone (including remorseful, but still active, WSs), that most people participating in these discussions (indeed, attracted 2 them) can't recognize for a long time that they are likely also responsible for the decay of the marriage leading up 2 the affair (not the same as responsibility for the affair). I'm trying 2 do better with WSs than I have in the past. I'm not always successful. But I intend 2 keep working on that. Please bear with me! -ol' 2long Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Yes you all are right about what people "should have" done before they cheated. But by that point, "giving it to them" does nothing because we can no longer prevent the incident from occuring. Sure we have some people that come here and are wrestling with the right thing to do or even express how much they love the OM/OW. This is the fog we often talk about here. Being angry with people about what they did does not help them out of the fog. It is often very hard for the WS because many times they want to "stop" but can't because of the fog. Or they say they "love" the OM/OW when really they love the high that comes from affairs. However, it is hard to recognize that when in the thick of things. I know this because, regrettably, I've been both a BS and a WS. Bottom line, if you have nothing to offer but a tongue lashing to a WS because you are so angry about your own situation, then do not respond to the post. If you do post, there are more constructive ways to express that what they did was wrong/damaging. Share the BS perspective but in a constructive way. Inform them of the success rates for relationships born from infidelity (3% or less). Tell them the reality of the situation and how they are not thinking clearly. Tell them your experiences so they may be able to get out of the fog. There is a book called "When Good People Have Affairs." That's right, they can actually be good people who made terrible mistakes. They have to live with that and live with it they will with or without our help. The fact of the matter is that I come here to read and occasionally post in an attempt to HELP MYSELF RECOVER from my wife's cheating. I think that most people are here for the same reason, even if they don't know it. In the 2 months I've been active on LS I feel better about every aspect of the cheating incident, although it continues to be an up-and-down process. I expect this to continue and have a feeling that this sort of "one step forward two steps back" thing is actually an important part of the healing process for many of us. My point to you is that a WS should not expect support from a group of people largely made up of people who are working to recover from the damage done to them by their own WS. I don't believe anything anyone says on this forum is not "appropriate" because for that individual poster it is part of their recovery process, and that's really why this forum exists. As long as the contributions are truly from the persons heart then they are always of some value; even if only to the contributor themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
PortuguesePrincess80 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Newoman, if this is true, go back to your original thread and start posting. If you are indeed sincere, you will get advice, you are likely to still get criticism as well, but don't let it get you down. Take it, learn from it and if necessary defend yourself. An example like this is perfect case to show that cheaters need to hear the TRUTH. Those that wish to form a cheering section (and they KNOW who they are) will still chime in, but those of us that call it like we see it will also have our say. Now go back to your thread and get actively involved, be prepared for some harsh words, but develop a thick skin. Off topic I know, but in a way it is on topic, then again it's Friday and maybe I just don't give a hoot Agreed with this. What advice to you really seek when you write "please guide me in staying with my husband and highschool sweetheart" ??? Like seriously..how far is your head up your ass? Link to post Share on other sites
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Cheating is really a terrible thing. What's wrong with just breaking up with the girl, before you start dating another one? I would never cheat. Unfortunately, I seem to be a tiny ant in a large uncivilized society... Link to post Share on other sites
PortuguesePrincess80 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 And woogle you are very correct with the ws's wanting a cheering section. Newoman's thread is the PRIME example of this! Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I actually think both can be helpful. It is when the name calling starts that I don't agree with. I don't think name calling=help. Actually the blunt posts have helped me dig the deepest. I can honestly say that I get called more names about my person and particularly my faith than I have ever used here. Cowardly and selfish are terms I have used regularly and I am sure that I won't be changing that. But I am a big girl and I can take it. I know this is a public forum and within the guidelines people can post what and how they feel. There are a lot of folks who come on here and they don't want to someone to state their opinion, they want the phrases.."you are human and human makes mistakes" or "Ohh, you are trying (trying what?) or "you had a reason" ...if that is what you want to hear from everyone you want to just stay in your mess and you want them to make you more comfortable in it(and I do mean the general you). Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I can honestly say that I get called more names about my person and particularly my faith than I have ever used here. Cowardly and selfish are terms I have used regularly and I am sure that I won't be changing that. But I am a big girl and I can take it. I know this is a public forum and within the guidelines people can post what and how they feel. There are a lot of folks who come on here and they don't want to someone to state their opinion, they want the phrases.."you are human and human makes mistakes" or "Ohh, you are trying (trying what?) or "you had a reason" ...if that is what you want to hear from everyone you want to just stay in your mess and you want them to make you more comfortable in it(and I do mean the general you). I agree cowardly and selfish are perfectly fitted for the cheater and it took me some time in understanding this (not sure why:o). As you said I am also a big girl and can take it. I don't think that you are one of the bashers here Bent, I have always enjoyed your posts and even some of your posts to me were well needed:). I guess I wasn't wording my question correctly or maybe understanding. Sometimes I feel when there is a remorseful WS, they will get bashed repeatedly. Now some of the WS's that come on here trying to cake eat I understand why they would be bashed. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Anyone who is remorseful about ANYTHING they have done should be helped through the process to the other side of self-forgiveness and repentance. Gently. Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Taylor Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Anyone who is remorseful about ANYTHING they have done should be helped through the process to the other side of self-forgiveness and repentance. Gently. Most cheaters aren't remorseful though. They may pretend to be, but the majority of cheaters do it multiple times. It's not a one time only thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author love4me2c Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Of course cheating is wrong. I know! I've lived it. In fact, I found LS because my husband cheated on me and you all gave me great support and still do. As stated previously, I'm not saying we shouldn't tell WS how wrong they are or anything of that nature. Also, I never called any specific person out. Most, if not all, of you who responded to this are not the ones I am referring to. But in the cases that I am referring to, I see people who post and are sorry for what they've done. Those are the WS I am referring to here. In the cases that prompted my post, no advice is offered but to bash them. Advice does not equal "encouragement." I'm certainly not advocating that anyone is "coddled." Nowhere did I write that. All I'm trying to point out is that people are here for advice. Of course anyone can post anything, but why post if you aren't offering advice other than to bash the person? I guess for some people it allows them to transfer their own hurt onto someone who, personally, has done nothing to them. If you have nothing helpful to the OP but to bash them, then why even bother? I don't understand it. And yeah, people make mistakes. I know it infuriates some of you to no end to even read that. A serial cheater is not a mistake. Yes it is a choice to cheat no matter if it was once or 1000 times. But everyone in their life has made bad decisions. I agree there is no excuse for cheating. I had been begging my husband to separate for years before I caught him cheating. Why didn't he just take me up on the separation? Only he knows that. Link to post Share on other sites
Linda9999 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sure we all make bad decisions. But that doesn't mean that everyone should just say, "Oh, you poor thing, that was a bad decision but I'm sure you didn't mean it, here, have a lollipop and some sunshine up your ass and feel better". When someone makes a CHOICE to DELIBERATELY lie and betray another person via infidelity, what the hell good is THAT going to do them? They DO need a kick in the pants. Then, if they decide that maybe they DID make a mistake, THEN commence with the tough love stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
newoman Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I wish I could "like" the posts that have helped me! I think you'd all be surprised, like Princess'! lol Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I'm seeing a common theme where someone comes here to ask for advice, they are the WS, and they get put through the ringer. I know many of us are hurting here, but this board isn't just for the BS. None of us are perfect individuals. I've been slowly acknowledging my own contributions to the demise of my marriage which assisted in my WH's infidelity. As much as we'd like to think it was all about the infidelity, it is much more than that. Infidelity hurts both parties, the BS and the WS. This is a very hard time for everyone involved. If the WS comes here asking how to save their marriage, rather than putting them down, we should be helping them repair their marriage by sharing our experiences and feelings. I know for many of us the feelings are raw and it is difficult, but the WS OPs are not YOUR WS so we should not take our anger out on them. I'm sure it is especially hard for some of us here where our WS did/does not return or show remorse. These aren't the WS we generally see on this board. Just like the compassion we show to BS, we should be showing it to the WS, too. Everyone involved in infidelity is hurting. Attempting to punish/flame WS's here is not constructive. It feeds into the anger/pain we are feeling which is self destructive and not healing. I'm sure I'm not going to win many friends here by this post, but this board is to discuss infidelity, support each other, and provide constructive feedback not to break people down. Everyone is just trying to get through this the best they can. speak for yourself... i understand that a person's actions represent part the person of who they are. with that said - i don't "put the person down" only their actions can do that... i participate here by suggesting change - especially if a poster here doesn't enjoy the way life is going for them. but first one must own the way they are participating. back to my first sentence... Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Most cheaters aren't remorseful though. They may pretend to be, but the majority of cheaters do it multiple times. It's not a one time only thing. Exactly. They only care about it when the cheating is exposed and they have to face the consequences then they play the poor little victim role. I have no use for people like that when they callously hurt the people who love them for some cheap thrill. Also you can't help somebody that doesn't want to be helped. Many of them just want a cheering section and I will not help provide that. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 What I don't get is how cheaters can be so over-sensitive when it comes to getting some criticism on an internet message board, yet so insensitive in their own lives as to cheat in the first place. Someone please explain that? Thanks. Because many of them live in perpetual victim mode. They can treat anybody they want like garbage but don't dare hurt their feelings or you are a big meanie. Link to post Share on other sites
John Michael Kane Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 What I don't get is how cheaters can be so over-sensitive when it comes to getting some criticism on an internet message board, yet so insensitive in their own lives as to cheat in the first place. Someone please explain that? Thanks. Exactly. It's because they're frustrated they're not getting the validation they most likely wouldn't get in real life, so they come here to rant off about how good it is boning their husband's "best friend.":rolleyes: Bottom line is this is a public internet forum, where opinions and facts are traded. If you don't like it, shut your computer off. No one asked you to read and if you're going to cry over what someone 3000 miles away from you said, then you really don't need to be on here. The "Bitter" argument is old and so are the same rationalizations from these unfaithful folks. Cheaters/OM/OW come here expecting a candy bar for their sick behavior from people they don't even know and it shows how really immature they are when they get pissy. Cheating is wrong point blank period and there are absolutely no exceptions or "grey areas." You can say BSs are bitter, simple minded or whatever, but the fact remains: There are no justifications for deciding to cheat and get knocked up by your coworker. Link to post Share on other sites
Author love4me2c Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 Most of you really didn't even read what I wrote at all. Some of you picked out specific sentances and responded to those without the context of the entire post. Go ahead and keep that hate in your heart going.. feels good doesn't it? I'm done. Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Most of you really didn't even read what I wrote at all. Some of you picked out specific sentances and responded to those without the context of the entire post. Go ahead and keep that hate in your heart going.. feels good doesn't it? I'm done. You might be, because your point is full of holes. There is value in every person but you won't help anything or anyone by glossing over wrong or putting a spin on it. Everything isn't OK and everyone isn't alright. If you truly believe right and wrong is subjective, then there will be no reasoning with you love4me2c. One can't be truly happy and fulfilled at someone else's expense. It's a lie. I hate lies. Hate the cheating, love the cheater. But, needless name calling, slander or cruelty never works either. On anyone. You ruin your argument before it ever gets off the ground. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Yes you all are right about what people "should have" done before they cheated. But by that point, "giving it to them" does nothing because we can no longer prevent the incident from occuring. Sure we have some people that come here and are wrestling with the right thing to do or even express how much they love the OM/OW. This is the fog we often talk about here. Being angry with people about what they did does not help them out of the fog. It is often very hard for the WS because many times they want to "stop" but can't because of the fog. Or they say they "love" the OM/OW when really they love the high that comes from affairs. However, it is hard to recognize that when in the thick of things. I know this because, regrettably, I've been both a BS and a WS. Bottom line, if you have nothing to offer but a tongue lashing to a WS because you are so angry about your own situation, then do not respond to the post. If you do post, there are more constructive ways to express that what they did was wrong/damaging. Share the BS perspective but in a constructive way. Inform them of the success rates for relationships born from infidelity (3% or less). Tell them the reality of the situation and how they are not thinking clearly. Tell them your experiences so they may be able to get out of the fog. There is a book called "When Good People Have Affairs." That's right, they can actually be good people who made terrible mistakes. They have to live with that and live with it they will with or without our help. Sorry but my empathy lies with the "Good people " who didn't have an affair! What a lot of WS seem to forget is that their were probably a lot of times their BS wasn't thrilled with the marriage either.. but the BS didn't resolve those feelings by cheating. I am going to be paying fairly hefty alimony to an unfaithful ex-husband till the day I die, from where I sit the one doing all the paying from this "terrible mistake" is me, not my former WS. My support goes to BS and any children that might be involved. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Most of you really didn't even read what I wrote at all. Some of you picked out specific sentances and responded to those without the context of the entire post. Go ahead and keep that hate in your heart going.. feels good doesn't it? I'm done. I'm sorry but I'm already legally obligated to provide support to one cheater and there aren't any additional resources left in me to provide emotional support to other WS. Stomping your feet & demanding that BS become warm,loving and supportive towards WS here just highlights the "me,me,me" syndrome so many WS have become inflicted with. Unhappy in your marriage? assertively request changes, if that doesn't work, file for divorce and then find another partner.. pretty simple,easy to follow concept. Link to post Share on other sites
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