My fiancee left me out of the blue

[GreenPolicy]

 

Just off hand, and if you feel like it, what were some of your behaviors that you think might have contributed? I am also not clear as to the real dynamic in your r/l. Was she always considerate and nice to you? And you to her? Never argued for the mostpart? Were things really pleasant and enjoyable? Did you have the same interests? etc. Did she do nice things for your birthday or a holiday? Or was it always you playing the role of the giver? And she was more of a taker?

 

I don't know why I am drawing this picture, but I have the impression that she was operating more as an individual, and you were the one operating like you were in a couple.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not 100 percent my fault or her fault we're through. But I see that what you're saying is that she can't sustain relationships, so it doesn't matter if I was little more X or a little less Y, the end result would have been the same.

 

As far as our dynamic, we didn't argue or fight much, but the first 10 1/2 months of our relationship was still the honeymoon, and we got along so well that there wasn't much to argue or fight about. We only had one mini-spat where I pissed her off and we resolved that later in the same day.

 

We were doing that healthy smothering thing where you want to spend all your time together and the other person is just so wonderful and perfect. For my birthday she bought me a very nice digital camera, since gift-giving is her thing, and we took a trip to Seattle. As far as making plans, we kind of split that duty 50/50. She always wanted to include me when making plans with her friends and family and made a big effort to integrate me into her life.

 

I would say the first 10.5 months of the relationship were great, pleasant and enjoyable as you say. The last month looking back I can see she was starting to detach, but it still seemed very good.

[GreenPolicy]

With you, it was probably the first time she got scared she was going to hurt another human being. She is not going to want to do that again very soon, I assure you. You probably were the best thing that ever happened to her, but you blew the top off of her cover, do you see that? Just by being the person you are, you probably made her feel like an emotional failure, which is not your fault at all, but do you see what I mean? A total mis-match, a total disaster emotionally. You're willing to put effort into a relationship, and she does not even see the point. I hope this makes it more clear what I meant when I said she did not really love you, b/c she is not capable of love. She's just wired in a way that is hard for you to understand b/c you loved her the normal way, and all she could do was give you her version of love. I may go back to your previous message b/c there was something there I wanted to address as well. Hope that's ok.

 

I know I am the best thing that ever happened to her, and I'm sure she would agree, because she made those gestures she never did with any guy she ever dated. When you say I made her feel like an emotional failure, you are saying I shook her to her core?

 

I made a comment to my mom tonight about how she gets to go on her merry way, but I am left to pick up the pieces and valiantly try to get on with my life. Are you saying that this experience has shook her up in a very profound way? Does she probably hurt over this, or does a person like her not feel much guilt?

[GreenPolicy]

With you, it was probably the first time she got scared she was going to hurt another human being. She is not going to want to do that again very soon, I assure you. You probably were the best thing that ever happened to her, but you blew the top off of her cover, do you see that? Just by being the person you are, you probably made her feel like an emotional failure, which is not your fault at all, but do you see what I mean? A total mis-match, a total disaster emotionally. You're willing to put effort into a relationship, and she does not even see the point. I hope this makes it more clear what I meant when I said she did not really love you, b/c she is not capable of love. She's just wired in a way that is hard for you to understand b/c you loved her the normal way, and all she could do was give you her version of love. I may go back to your previous message b/c there was something there I wanted to address as well. Hope that's ok.

 

This is why she made her decision unilateral. This is why she seemed to walk away without looking back.

 

 

Graceful, do you think she realizes that this relationship we had was the best thing that she ever had in her life, to be loved and treated the way I did, and does she feel any guilt or remorse over the b/u? Does she hurt? Or does a person like her just file it away deep down inside and not deal with it?

[Graceful]

GP,

I have tried to log onto LS all day to no avail, and just now got in. I don't have a lot of time, but wanted to at least respond to your msg.

 

I know I am the best thing that ever happened to her, and I'm sure she would agree, because she made those gestures she never did with any guy she ever dated. When you say I made her feel like an emotional failure, you are saying I shook her to her core?

What I really meant in saying you may have made her feel like an emotional failure is that you knew what you wanted, you had absolute clarity you wanted to go forward with the relationship, you know you want to marry and settle down, you were open and while not perfect, were doing your part in creating a r/l with her that you wanted to last. I honestly think she may have been intimidated by your clarity and your truth. I think she may actually suffer shame deep down inside b/c she does not have that clarity, and does not know if she can be in lasting relationship.

 

I made a comment to my mom tonight about how she gets to go on her merry way, but I am left to pick up the pieces and valiantly try to get on with my life. Are you saying that this experience has shook her up in a very profound way? Does she probably hurt over this, or does a person like her not feel much guilt?

This is the hard part. I will tell you how I perceive what she is feeling, but keep in mind it is my perception. I think her initial reaction was probably one of sadness, but I also think it was tinged with relief, to be off the hook and to stop being dishonest with you. She had to have felt relief. And since she made it unilaterally, and since she made it non-negotiable, I do not think she is suffering any guilt, no.

 

This goes hand in hand with your previous statement about feeling she is not the person you thought she was, and that the r/l had to have been, in part, a lie. As you have said, she got herself off the hook by making it look like she was doing you a favor, that you deserve more, that you deserve someone that can love you 100 percent, and said she is not that person. But we both know that's the same as "it's not you, it's me" which is the same as "I'm out" no matter what the reasons are, bottom line.

 

The lack of guilt and remorse for hurting you is where I am coming from when I say that she doesn't know how to love and she does not feel the full range of emotions. She's not empathic.

 

Graceful, do you think she realizes that this relationship we had was the best thing that she ever had in her life, to be loved and treated the way I did, and does she feel any guilt or remorse over the b/u? Does she hurt? Or does a person like her just file it away deep down inside and not deal with it?

Nail. Head.

This is why her patterns keep repeating. Of course she's not going to deal with it. I have said she acts from the outside in, as her way of trying to change herself on the inside, which of course, is futile. She does not seem to have made any connection with the fact she needs to change from the inside out, which would take intervention and work.

 

One thing I really wanted to ask is whether she really seemed like she was or could be accountable for you. What I mean is did you feel she would drop everything to help you, did she ever take care of you if you weren't feeling well, did she make you feel like you could count on her, not just for fun things, but for difficult and rough times? Did you honestly get that from her?

 

Also, I do think we are in agreement. But you seem to get more out of looking into her FOO and her issues stemming from that, and I would encourage you to simply look at her for who she is today, what she brings to the table now, what her personality is like, and if she is an emotionally stable person for you, not putting into account how she got where she is.

 

My descriptions are to encourage you to look at HER for HER, not to keep going back to seeing how she ended up damaged. I am not sure I perceive her as not liking herself the way you do, but I know you know her, I don't! My perception is that she is more fatalistic about herself "this is me, this is just the way I am" and she's not going to dig down inside of her to explain that.

 

I don't quite have time now to see if there is anything else I wanted to address, but hope to be back later. Take care.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Graceful
pasted text from another post in thread

[Breakupguy12]

Sounds like she has some issues that she needs to assess before you guys could ever move forward with a solid relationship.

[GreenPolicy]

 

One thing I really wanted to ask is whether she really seemed like she was or could be accountable for you. What I mean is did you feel she would drop everything to help you, did she ever take care of you if you weren't feeling well, did she make you feel like you could count on her, not just for fun things, but for difficult and rough times? Did you honestly get that from her?

 

.

 

My dad is a chronic alcoholic and this is something I was upfront and honest with her when we started dating, after we had gotten to know each other of course. I wanted her to know that this is an issue with my family and if she was going to be a part of my family, it was something she needed to be aware of. There were times where I would be called away to deal with it and she would offer to help, and she would be willing to lend an ear.

 

Also, I was without a car for a few months when my old one died and I didn't have money to fix it, and I had an IRS tax bill I had to pay off before I could take on a monthly note. I live close enough to my job that I take the bus to work, and on the weekends I would borrow my dad's truck so she wasn't ferrying me around everywhere. When it came to dinner and activities and stuff, I would pay more than I otherwise would because she would usually give me a ride home to my apartment on Sunday nights and would usually take me to the grocery store once during the week (she works about 10 minutes from my apartment, we would hang out once during the week). I did my best to not be co-dependent while I was without a car for reasons that couldn't really be helped.

 

The last time we actually hung out was Thursday, October 14th. I came over to her apartment and we cooked dinner together. We were watching tv together when my mom called me on my cell to inform me that my dad had driven home drunk and crashed both of their cars. She was taking him to a rehab facility that night and needed my help. My ex offered to go with me, but I didn't want her to see that, see my dad like that, and I didn't know how late it would be before we got him checked in. So she did offer moral support in that instance. Our relationship was free of a lot of drama because we are both laid-back Type B personalities and I don't feel like we ever faced a lot of adversity together. It does sting through that she kicked me when I was down and the timing of it. I was already dealing with a situation trying to help my mom with my dad and she pulled the rug out from under me.

 

My brain tells me just how unsuitable she is for a long-term partnership because of who and how she is, that I ignored warning signs about her inability to sustain long-term relationships in her past and didn't think it would happen to me. I thought because of the unprecedented gestures she made, and the feedback I got from her family and friends (she told me her parents really approved of me and she had dumped guys before that they didn't like, her friends commented to me on how much happier she seemed with me and they had seen some of the losers she'd dated before), because of all of this, I thought we were on track to get married. She does have a lot of wonderful qualities, there is no reason we would have lasted as long as we did and gotten as serious as we did if we didn't.

Edited December 23, 2010 by GreenPolicy

[strangeways]

GP,

I have tried to log onto LS all day to no avail, and just now got in. I don't have a lot of time, but wanted to at least respond to your msg.

 

What I really meant in saying you may have made her feel like an emotional failure is that you knew what you wanted, you had absolute clarity you wanted to go forward with the relationship, you know you want to marry and settle down, you were open and while not perfect, were doing your part in creating a r/l with her that you wanted to last. I honestly think she may have been intimidated by your clarity and your truth. I think she may actually suffer shame deep down inside b/c she does not have that clarity, and does not know if she can be in lasting relationship.

 

This is the hard part. I will tell you how I perceive what she is feeling, but keep in mind it is my perception. I think her initial reaction was probably one of sadness, but I also think it was tinged with relief, to be off the hook and to stop being dishonest with you. She had to have felt relief. And since she made it unilaterally, and since she made it non-negotiable, I do not think she is suffering any guilt, no.

 

This goes hand in hand with your previous statement about feeling she is not the person you thought she was, and that the r/l had to have been, in part, a lie. As you have said, she got herself off the hook by making it look like she was doing you a favor, that you deserve more, that you deserve someone that can love you 100 percent, and said she is not that person. But we both know that's the same as "it's not you, it's me" which is the same as "I'm out" no matter what the reasons are, bottom line.

 

The lack of guilt and remorse for hurting you is where I am coming from when I say that she doesn't know how to love and she does not feel the full range of emotions. She's not empathic.

 

Nail. Head.

This is why her patterns keep repeating. Of course she's not going to deal with it. I have said she acts from the outside in, as her way of trying to change herself on the inside, which of course, is futile. She does not seem to have made any connection with the fact she needs to change from the inside out, which would take intervention and work.

 

One thing I really wanted to ask is whether she really seemed like she was or could be accountable for you. What I mean is did you feel she would drop everything to help you, did she ever take care of you if you weren't feeling well, did she make you feel like you could count on her, not just for fun things, but for difficult and rough times? Did you honestly get that from her?

 

Also, I do think we are in agreement. But you seem to get more out of looking into her FOO and her issues stemming from that, and I would encourage you to simply look at her for who she is today, what she brings to the table now, what her personality is like, and if she is an emotionally stable person for you, not putting into account how she got where she is.

 

My descriptions are to encourage you to look at HER for HER, not to keep going back to seeing how she ended up damaged. I am not sure I perceive her as not liking herself the way you do, but I know you know her, I don't! My perception is that she is more fatalistic about herself "this is me, this is just the way I am" and she's not going to dig down inside of her to explain that.

 

I don't quite have time now to see if there is anything else I wanted to address, but hope to be back later. Take care.

 

I have to say that this is one of the most insightful, thoughtful posts I have seen on LS.

 

@GreenPolicy - I am in somewhat the same situation as you but further along the path. GP, this is not a criticism, but I've noticed in your posts you seem to hark back to specific events in your relationship. Almost to use them as a way to say that your relationship was somehow different to others she had, or that you treated her better than other SO's. I've no question that you did treat her better (same as I did with my ex)...but...you seem to be going round in circles, reliving certain events trying to rationalise the unrationalisable(?). I get you. Ultimately, it is what it is. Forget about what she said or even did. She bailed on the others and she bailed on you. The outcome is the same. I get it. I really do. You know the answers because posters like Grace have provided them. I get an under current of hope in your posts (I maybe wrong). For you and I there is no hope with our ex's they are done and so should we be.

[GreenPolicy]

I have to say that this is one of the most insightful, thoughtful posts I have seen on LS.

 

@GreenPolicy - I am in somewhat the same situation as you but further along the path. GP, this is not a criticism, but I've noticed in your posts you seem to hark back to specific events in your relationship. Almost to use them as a way to say that your relationship was somehow different to others she had, or that you treated her better than other SO's. I've no question that you did treat her better (same as I did with my ex)...but...you seem to be going round in circles, reliving certain events trying to rationalise the unrationalisable(?). I get you. Ultimately, it is what it is. Forget about what she said or even did. She bailed on the others and she bailed on you. The outcome is the same. I get it. I really do. You know the answers because posters like Grace have provided them. I get an under current of hope in your posts (I maybe wrong). For you and I there is no hope with our ex's they are done and so should we be.

 

I know. When a girl dumps a guy, if she's got her **** together, it's because he either suffocated her and was needy and possessive, and didn't give her space, or he got comfortable in the relationship, neglected her, and she lost interest. But when you do the right thing and continue to do your part and nurture and grow the relationship, and they dump you anyways, then it's not your fault. I am a healthy person, and she is not a healthy person, and you are right, I am trying to rationalize what cannot be rationalized. As homebrew told me, I am grasping for answers. She is not healthy, so there are none. I should have realized that something was up when a very beautiful woman reaches the age of 30 and has no experience in being able to sustain a healthy, committed relationship long-term. I thought because I treated her better and she made those unprecedented gestures that somehow this innoculated me from suffering the same fate, and I was wrong.

[strangeways]

I know. When a girl dumps a guy, if she's got her **** together, it's because he either suffocated her and was needy and possessive, and didn't give her space, or he got comfortable in the relationship, neglected her, and she lost interest. But when you do the right thing and continue to do your part and nurture and grow the relationship, and they dump you anyways, then it's not your fault. I am a healthy person, and she is not a healthy person, and you are right, I am trying to rationalize what cannot be rationalized. As homebrew told me, I am grasping for answers. She is not healthy, so there are none. I should have realized that something was up when a very beautiful woman reaches the age of 30 and has no experience in being able to sustain a healthy, committed relationship long-term. I thought because I treated her better and she made those unprecedented gestures that somehow this innoculated me from suffering the same fate, and I was wrong.

 

You were wrong and so was I. However, I think another poster alluded to the fact that you need to look at your own motivations. I'm older than you (I'm 41) and my relationship has been an epiphany for me, more so than a 10 year marriage that fell apart. You mentioned her "daddy issues" (mine had those) but you also mention your father issues (chronic alcoholic). I won't go into my family of origin but I can see that for much of my life, because of my upbringing (which I used to think was perfect, it was not), I have "sought out" partners to "fix". I'm working on that now, It'll take a while but I feel liberated by the knowledge. That's just my experience but it's worth thinking about.

[Breakupguy12]

Green, A person's past is usually a fair indicator of their future behavior. Hindsight is always 20/20, so the good thing is that you're not beating yourself up about being a bit naive at the time. You can't change anyone else, so you feeling as if treating her a certain way would change her isn't quite accurate. But we all live and learn.

[Graceful]

I have to say that this is one of the most insightful, thoughtful posts I have seen on LS.

Thank you, wow, thank you. I have been on GP's thread b/c I had some strong perceptions about his situation and have tried to shed some light.

 

@GreenPolicy - I am in somewhat the same situation as you but further along the path. GP, this is not a criticism, but I've noticed in your posts you seem to hark back to specific events in your relationship. Almost to use them as a way to say that your relationship was somehow different to others she had, or that you treated her better than other SO's. I've no question that you did treat her better (same as I did with my ex)...but...you seem to be going round in circles, reliving certain events trying to rationalise the unrationalisable(?). I get you. Ultimately, it is what it is. Forget about what she said or even did. She bailed on the others and she bailed on you. The outcome is the same. I get it. I really do. You know the answers because posters like Grace have provided them. I get an under current of hope in your posts (I maybe wrong). For you and I there is no hope with our ex's they are done and so should we be.

@GP,

I was going to come back to this thread and moreorless say what strangeways has said.

 

I am not sure what more I can say. And strangeways is saying what I said in a recent post: you need to stop going over and over what happened in your r/l, and furthermore, you need to stop reviewing your ex's FOO issues. This is your way of holding on, yes it is, and it is not doing you any good.

 

Please stop being a "student" of your ex's issues. It is no longer relevant, not at all.

 

The thing is, I have known many, MANY people who have grown up in dysfunction. Alcoholic parents, emotionally screwed up family dynamics, just being around bad parenting, rebelling, divorce, etc etc etc. AND many many people from these homes move on to create very healthy relationships and marriages and are good parents. The bottom line is that your ex might have turned out the same way even if her parents had been Mr and Mrs Wonderful. You have to just stop rationalizing her inability to sustain a LTR. I said in a previous post, no matter what you did or said, or changed, you still would have been shown the proverbial exit.

 

Please go back and read through the thread, open your heart and mind to healing and recovery from this very painful ending to your r/l with your ex. Start putting yourself first.

 

Also, I was very sorry to read that your father is an alcoholic and that you and your mum have so much to deal with, I was very upset when I read your message, as I had no idea. Of course you are looking for and need a woman who is strong and stable, and you know now that your ex could never fulfill that role. Love does not die overnight, so it's ok that you do not feel that you are over your ex, of course you're not. But in order to start going forward emotionally, stop playing "tapes" in your head that are only going to continue to cause confusion for you.

 

I will continue to check your thread if I see it bumped up at any time, in case there's anything I can do to help. Take care.

[GreenPolicy]

My head is more or less where it needs to be. There is a sense of relief in knowing that this is not my fault. At the very least, I gained valuable relationship experience, I can look back at this experience after I've healed and have no regrets because it wasn't my decision to end the relationship, she didn't leave me because I neglected or smothered her, so I didn't "blow it." I am proud of the boyfriend I was to her and the way I handled myself after the breakup. And until she gets "healthy," she is no good to me in a long-term relationship, so better that this happen now than before the wedding, mortgage and kids. I have had so many people tell me that I dodged a bullet, and that a marriage would have been short-lived and unhappy.

 

Your heart just hurts so bad, because the b/u is so emotionally inconsistent with the relationship that preceded it. You grieve the fact that overnight you are in love with a ghost. You grieve the loss of your future plans together. And you grieve the fact that sooner or later you will be replaced and she will be with somebody else.

 

She is a wonderful person in many respects, I wouldn't have fallen in love with her otherwise. And that's a part of the hurt, because this is a person who brought so much joy to your life and who has these issues that prevent them from having the same kind of emotional connections as other people.

 

But I need to focus on myself.

[strangeways]

But I need to focus on myself.

 

Yep.

 

I spent so much time trying to work out my ex's motivation and character. I analysed, read, talked to friends. It's funny because I discovered that one of my friends is EXACTLY like my ex in every aspect of his life. Our weekly chats became a sort of drunken therapy for him. He's a lovely bloke but if you were a woman you wouldn't want to get invloved with him. He's broken so many hearts. I have a fear (as does he now) that he will end up a very lonely man. He's 42.

 

Anyway, I feel like I've got a PhD in my ex. I got so tired and drained by going over the same thing. I'm glad I did though because it shone a light on me. As soon as I started focusing on myself I started to let go of her, move on properly. Don't get me wrong, I still miss her, love her and think of her often and crazily, some days I think I'd take her back despite it being a terrible idea. These days instead of boring the s**t out of my friends talking about her, I bore the s**t out of them talking about me:D. They've commented on how I've changed, how I look at things differently, how open I am about my emotions.

 

Start focusing on yourself. It can be very rewarding and eye opening.

Edited December 24, 2010 by strangeways

[GreenPolicy]

Yep.

 

I spent so much time trying to work out my ex's motivation and character. I analysed, read, talked to friends. It's funny because I discovered that one of my friends is EXACTLY like my ex in every aspect of his life. Our weekly chats became a sort of drunken therapy for him. He's a lovely bloke but if you were a woman you wouldn't want to get invloved with him. He's broken so many hearts. I have a fear (as does he now) that he will end up a very lonely man. He's 42.

 

Anyway, I feel like I've got a PhD in my ex. I got so tired and drained by going over the same thing. I'm glad I did though because it shone a light on me. As soon as I started focusing on myself I started to let go of her, move on properly. Don't get me wrong, I still miss her, love her and think of her often and crazily, some days I think I'd take her back despite it being a terrible idea. These days instead of boring the s**t out of my friends talking about her, I bore the s**t out of them talking about me:D. They've commented on how I've changed, how I look at things differently, how open I am about my emotions.

 

Start focusing on yourself. It can be very rewarding and eye opening.

 

Yeah, I was "consoling" myself with the thought that she came closest to committing to a future with me than anybody she ever dated, and made all these unprecedented gestures of commitment...as a way to hang on to false hope obviously. She was not lying when she told me it was the best relationship she'd ever been in, but at the end of the day, I was shown the door just like every man she's ever been involved with. Breakups don't materialize out of thin air. She has shown an inability and unwillingness to sustain committed, long-term relationships, and until she can, we can't be together. I want more than she is willing to give.

 

And I'm kind of in the same boat as you are in that I cannot turn my feelings off overnight. I still love her, I still care about her, I wish that there was a way that this could all work out in the end. My head realizes just how bad an idea it would be to take her back, but your heart would take that chance. It's a moot point anyways because I realize that it will not happen. You need to respect yourself: if the shoe were on the other foot, would I expect her to take me back? You shouldn't have to endure an experience like this for love, just to avoid being alone. As homebrew said, I am grasping for answers. She is not a healthy person, so there are none.

[LifeIsGreat]

Dude, trust me on this. If she has some "emotional" issues, you will not be able to help her. She has to figure this out on her own, and I hate to tell you, most people with these issues don't ever get fixed. Some people are just damaged goods, and will never make a good S.O. Just let her go, grieve, and move on with life. Don't bother trying to make sense of anything, because you will not be able to. There is no magic to what you are going through. It hurts, it sucks, it seems unfair- but with time you WILL be fine. Do not have any contact with her, no matter what.

[GreenPolicy]

Dude, trust me on this. If she has some "emotional" issues, you will not be able to help her. She has to figure this out on her own, and I hate to tell you, most people with these issues don't ever get fixed. Some people are just damaged goods, and will never make a good S.O. Just let her go, grieve, and move on with life. Don't bother trying to make sense of anything, because you will not be able to. There is no magic to what you are going through. It hurts, it sucks, it seems unfair- but with time you WILL be fine. Do not have any contact with her, no matter what.

 

54 days of NC and going strong.

[blover]

GP, I know what you are talking about. My ex had emotional issues too. She had issues with her mother and relationship issues in general (even with friends). She was in a r/l with a drug addict, then with an old man with kids and then with someone who did not love her.In between there were many others. When she met me, she told me all of this. I took it in, helped her as much as i could but realized she wasnt reciprocating. she told me she doesnt know how, she is empty and all kinds of things. Its sad when we love them so much and yet they leave us.

[strangeways]

realized she wasnt reciprocating. she told me she doesnt know how, she is empty and all kinds of things.

 

My ex also said she feels like a lost cuase. Ho hum.

[Graceful]

My ex also said she feels like a lost cuase. Ho hum.

 

You and I are so on the same page, strangeways, I can see that.

 

Said it before, and I will say it again, they are empty on the inside. Have no clue how to feel. Numb. They do not reciprocate, it is true, they go through the motions and they do try, b/c they really want to feel and be normal. But they aren't. And yes, after a while, the response does become "HO HUM" b/c they know what they have to do, and they don't do it. Self fulfilling prophesies and self destructive.

 

And when they get with a normal functioning person, they know what they've found, and yet, do nothing to finally take the time to push through their issues. To me, that begins to feel like they are being manipulative, and using their "woe is me, look at my screwed up past" as an excuse, and as a way to explain their predictable and uncelebratory exit from the r/l.

 

And I still say that plenty of people from dysfunctional homes come out fine. And others who come from fine, middle class homes, some of them never get it together. How much is "nature", how much is "nurture" -- that's a mystery. And after the break up has been a while, it becomes a moot point.

 

Stand strong, GP!! Xmas is over, just get through the next week and I am sure you will feel a lot better.

[strangeways]

And when they get with a normal functioning person, they know what they've found, and yet, do nothing to finally take the time to push through their issues. To me, that begins to feel like they are being manipulative, and using their "woe is me, look at my screwed up past" as an excuse, and as a way to explain their predictable and uncelebratory exit from the r/l.

 

I think this is very true and this is why the partner feels that they've been "used". As if it's some kind of cruel experiement to see if they can actually "do" a real relationship. I know I certainly felt like that. But again, it is what it is. There's no helping some people if they don't want to help themselves. A bitter pill but also a GREAT lesson in life.

 

And I still say that plenty of people from dysfunctional homes come out fine. And others who come from fine, middle class homes, some of them never get it together. How much is "nature", how much is "nurture" -- that's a mystery. And after the break up has been a while, it becomes a moot point.

 

Again, very true. I have the same experiences with friends.

[LifeIsGreat]

strangeways..... you are exactly right in your last post! Not trying to be cruel, but when we get into relationships with people like that we really also need to look at ourselves. Why the heck did we do it? Why did we fall for someone screwed up? The key is to answer the question and never do it again. It doesn't make us bad people that we did it, we just need to recognize and never do it again. Relationships with damaged people NEVER work, and eventually cause us heart break (well, I should say 98% of the time).

 

Since my break up I have been sooooo much more careful about who I'll date. In just 5 months of NC, I have had an opportunity to get with someone, but I didn't because I recognized issues much quicker than the past. There's the saying 'whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger'. A part of that in the death of relationship is being stronger by NOT getting into a similar relationship in the future. Make sense?

[strangeways]

strangeways..... you are exactly right in your last post! Not trying to be cruel, but when we get into relationships with people like that we really also need to look at ourselves. Why the heck did we do it? Why did we fall for someone screwed up? The key is to answer the question and never do it again. It doesn't make us bad people that we did it, we just need to recognize and never do it again. Relationships with damaged people NEVER work, and eventually cause us heart break (well, I should say 98% of the time).

 

Since my break up I have been sooooo much more careful about who I'll date. In just 5 months of NC, I have had an opportunity to get with someone, but I didn't because I recognized issues much quicker than the past. There's the saying 'whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger'. A part of that in the death of relationship is being stronger by NOT getting into a similar relationship in the future. Make sense?

 

It's very difficult. After a lot of soul searching I sort of understand the dynamics that got me into this relationship and my motivations and character.

 

I'm no where near ready to start daing. Only been 3.5 months but I do worry I may discard suitable partners because of my experiences. I guess it's a matter of degrees. Everyone has some sort of baggage it's just whether the baggage is sufficient to warrant ending a relationship or not getting involved in the first place.

 

We shall see.

[Graceful]

mmmm, I have to agree that you have to be careful not to judge a book by its cover too quickly. There may be a fine line between an issue and a deal breaker (issue), and you need to give people a chance to prove themselves. Sometimes it's an amazing experience to meet someone who has overcome a host of problems, even though they are still a "work in progress".

 

Even one of my cousins, she began to date a man who is morbidly obese, but who is, at his core, a warm, intelligent and wonderful man. He has lost well over 100 pounds (probably more like 150 by now) since she began seeing him, is really getting his **** together, and they are truly falling in love for all the right reasons. She saw through his weight problem and he saw through her issues with her ex (a nasty man, to say the least!) -- if anything, she's an inspiration to me. To be honest, I would not be able to see through someone with that type of weight problem. She did, and he may prove to be the love of her life.

 

I once dated one of the most wonderful men I have ever met --- prior to meeting me, he gave up drugs, alcohol, even caffeine and became a vegetarian, got into therapy and made a complete transformation of himself, after bottoming out. Did it concern me when he first told me? Yes, it did. But I went with my gut, and he was totally committed to his sobriety and never turned back, he was the most giving, gentle, nice, kind amazing man, I could not believe he had ever lived in a world of substance abuse and shame. It did not work out, but not b/c of any of his issues, we just had different life goals at the time, and we parted as friends.

 

I subscribe to the idea that your experiences will hopefully make you a more compassionate person, not a bitter or jaded person. That we can all learn from some of our painful experiences and yes, our mistakes. Just need to keep the compassion in check, when you see the red flags coming ... and the red flags might be seen 100 miles away for some of us, and not be seen at all by others. Many people are successfully and happily married to people who have damaged pasts, you love who you love, it's a matter of degree, compatibility and overall goals.

 

Keep your heart open.

 

Enjoy your day as well, as I have to get on with mine! Snow is coming!

[LifeIsGreat]

Most definitely!!! Someones past does not equal their future (if they do something about it). I am not the same person I was 5 years ago, and I would not want someone holding my past against me either.

 

I think there is a difference between "red" flags and "yellow" flags. To me a red flag is a NO. A red flag may be a woman you meet who is in a r/l with someone else, yet is willling to sleep with you. It may be someone who shoots up heroine on your first date. You get the idea.

 

Yellow flags are small things to watch for, but its ok to progress with the relationship and see how they play out. Maybe she's a bit mean to a clerk. She gets a bit upset and yells at you once.

 

I have learned you can tell alot about someone by how they talk about ex's. If everything waas always the ex's fault- this is an "orange" flag to me.

[strangeways]

I subscribe to the idea that your experiences will hopefully make you a more compassionate person, not a bitter or jaded person. That we can all learn from some of our painful experiences and yes, our mistakes. Just need to keep the compassion in check, when you see the red flags coming ... and the red flags might be seen 100 miles away for some of us, and not be seen at all by others. Many people are successfully and happily married to people who have damaged pasts, you love who you love, it's a matter of degree, compatibility and overall goals.

 

 

Agree completely.

 

It's interesting thinking about my ex, the emotion she seemed to lack more than any other was empathy. She really didn't understand how her actions could effect someone so much or really have any understanding of why other people felt the way they did. I guess emapthy is something you get taught as child and she never was taught it.