Getting A Woman That Has A Boyfriend?

[Mad Max]

None of these women I'm describing are "low quality," but if that is an intolerable level of lying for you, you certainly have the right to nix them.

 

 

There are little white lies, and saying you have a boyfriend when you don't and lying about your status is not a little white lie. That is intentionally deceiving someone. Quality people do not intentionally deceive people.

 

 

Understand that many women do not have the same "straight line" black and white view of honesty that men have, and it doesn't necessarily make them "bad people." Women dye their hair, use makeup, fib about their age, weight, etc. There is often more deception in a woman's appearance than reality, and they don't see the BF bomb as a lie.

 

 

Dying your hair and using makeup isn't intentionally deceiving people, nor does it have the potential to hurt anyone. The BF bomb is a lie. If I pursued a girl and told her I was single when I really wasn't, someone I don't think she would take too kindly to that.

 

If a girl can't simply tell me she's single, then she's not worth it. Small lies lead to bigger lies.

[carhill]

Understand that many women do not have the same "straight line" black and white view of honesty that men have, and it doesn't necessarily make them "bad people."

Definitely not 'bad', but rather merely incompatible, for myself. Many factors play from the inception of any relationship, romantic and otherwise, and each of us bring our unique perspectives. For another man, she may be perfect. By myself not wasting her time, this allows her to find the type of man with whom she is compatible, and vice-versa. It all works out

[Jeff M Stevens]

If she's going to lie about her relationship status, she's either:

 

1. Not interested

2. Not wrapped all that tight

 

Either way...no thanks!

[Jeff M Stevens]

...has low integrity

 

NO

Thanks!

[sanskrit]

There are little white lies, and saying you have a boyfriend when you don't and lying about your status is not a little white lie.

 

My point is that many of the women who do this do in fact believe it's no different than a little white lie. They don't use the BF bomb on friends of friends at parties, but when out in bars or clubs or just out generally and among complete strangers. They will justify it by memories of obnoxious guys met out and about who just wouldn't go away and leave them alone, or even guys who were drunk and made them fear for their safety.

 

Now I agree that this doesn't happen as much as women claim it does generally, but it does happen. So in the end, they justify the white lie as part of their screening mechanism for guys until he shows himself to be no threat, jackass or buzzkill, then they may ease off a bit or take off the "fake ring" so to speak. The women who resort to fake engagement rings were very attractive and constantly getting come-ons from strange men, even in traffic, guys trying to throw their business cards into their cars. Few men know what that level of attention is like and what we might resort to as a defense mechanism.

 

1. Watch what women do, not what they say (sound familiar, Jeff?) and this is basically a permit for some fibbing about various things that men just have to get used to as part of dating.

 

2. Don't instantly walk away when a strange, newly met woman tosses out the BF line. Talk to her a bit, and you will often find that the BF "disappears" somewhere at some point in the conversation. Attractive women -always- have a guy they can reasonably say is a "BF" in their lives, either an ex or one of several guys they have dated recently or are trying to get her to date them exclusively. So it's a debatable that she is definitely lying. The types of women who are desirable have attention coming in from other sources, and some of that could be reasonably qualified as a "BF."

 

When I was younger, I had lots of hard and fast rules about women and character traits. I wouldn't date a woman who ever lied about anything, age, weight, BF, nothing. I wouldn't date a woman who had ever been on antidepressants or had any emotional problems whatsoever. Had lots of these disqualifiers, and sure enough, I was disqualifying a gigantic chunk of women who were not "bad" people.

 

Today in our modern culture, you are either 1) a natural whom women throw themselves at 2) a normal guy with way too many disqualifiers who will have to put in superhuman amounts of effort to meet a woman who doesn't hit at least one of these disqualifiers or 3) Learn to live and let live as opposed to being harshly judgmental on the front end and learn that a woman's "stranger meeting" persona may be very different from her everyday personality.

[Mad Max]

My point is that many of the women who do this do in fact believe it's no different than a little white lie. They don't use the BF bomb on friends of friends at parties, but when out in bars or clubs or just out generally and among complete strangers. They will justify it by memories of obnoxious guys met out and about who just wouldn't go away and leave them alone, or even guys who were drunk and made them fear for their safety.

 

Now I agree that this doesn't happen as much as women claim it does generally, but it does happen. So in the end, they justify the white lie as part of their screening mechanism for guys until he shows himself to be no threat, jackass or buzzkill, then they may ease off a bit or take off the "fake ring" so to speak. The women who resort to fake engagement rings were very attractive and constantly getting come-ons from strange men, even in traffic, guys trying to throw their business cards into their cars. Few men know what that level of attention is like and what we might resort to as a defense mechanism.

 

1. Watch what women do, not what they say (sound familiar, Jeff?) and this is basically a permit for some fibbing about various things that men just have to get used to as part of dating.

 

2. Don't instantly walk away when a strange, newly met woman tosses out the BF line. Talk to her a bit, and you will often find that the BF "disappears" somewhere at some point in the conversation. Attractive women -always- have a guy they can reasonably say is a "BF" in their lives, either an ex or one of several guys they have dated recently or are trying to get her to date them exclusively. So it's a debatable that she is definitely lying. The types of women who are desirable have attention coming in from other sources, and some of that could be reasonably qualified as a "BF."

 

When I was younger, I had lots of hard and fast rules about women and character traits. I wouldn't date a woman who ever lied about anything, age, weight, BF, nothing. I wouldn't date a woman who had ever been on antidepressants or had any emotional problems whatsoever. Had lots of these disqualifiers, and sure enough, I was disqualifying a gigantic chunk of women who were not "bad" people.

 

Today in our modern culture, you are either 1) a natural whom women throw themselves at 2) a normal guy with way too many disqualifiers who will have to put in superhuman amounts of effort to meet a woman who doesn't hit at least one of these disqualifiers or 3) Learn to live and let live as opposed to being harshly judgmental on the front end and learn that a woman's "stranger meeting" persona may be very different from her everyday personality.

 

 

 

So going by your logic, I can say I have a girlfriend when I really don't and it's okay. Somehow, if I were to do that, most women wouldn't take too kindly to that. Sorry, but if you're going to lie to me right off the bat, you're not a good person. You lack integrity, morals, and self-esteem to lie that easily and that early. I don't lie and I will not tolerate a liar. Simple solution = tell the truth. I don't give a sh*t how attractive you are. Lying about your status and lying that early is unacceptable.

 

I've had women throw themselves at me. Did I lie about my status or anything else? No. Why? Because I have integrity. If you think it's okay to lie to me like that and that early, then I think it's okay for me to dump your ass on the spot.

[Jeff M Stevens]

I say that a woman that instantly throws out significant other gaga at you has low interest level in you. Women help you when they like you and when they throw boyfriend/husband gaga at you then you have to figure that you didn't pass the initial physical attraction test.

 

I say that any normal woman that is truly interested does not want to risk chasing you away.

[sanskrit]

If she's going to lie about her relationship status, she's either:

 

1. Not interested

2. Not wrapped all that tight

 

Either way...no thanks!

 

Reconcile the above with Doc Love's (and very common otherwise) maxim, "Watch what women do, not what they say" then, specifically, doesn't this maxim allow that women often rationalize things and say things they don't really mean in the early stages of dating? Yet if that's a maxim, by the logic expressed in this thread, all women whom it applies to are low quality and lack integrity? I don't agree.

 

If a woman comes on an internet forum and posts in a thread of male qualities that she wants:

 

1. Intelligence

2. Sense of humor

3. Emotional health

4. Kindness

 

and then goes out and sleeps with me, someone possessing none of the above, the very next night, does that mean she is necessarily "no integrity" or "low quality?" No. It just means she found me attractive and that I created an atmosphere that made sex "OK" and not a stigma for her.

 

And to preempt, those "seduction" skills are the exact same skills that need be used at the start of any successful relationship. "Challenge" = "Seduction" i.e. "building attraction level" in a woman, regardless of whether the seduction is consummated with sex immediately or not.

[carhill]

Since I'm technically still married but have been living separately for 18 months, pending a final divorce, I asked the question of LS women whether I should list myself as married, separated or divorced when establishing and online profile. The overwhelming answer was to be honest about my relationship status (I presume this to mean online and IRL) and, further, that they would not consider dating me based on that status.

 

Is there is a double standard at work here, in that women are allowed more wiggle room about the honesty with which they present themselves wrt relationship status? Personally, I say 'no', we're equals. I, or another man, can *choose* to pursue a date/relationship with them if they are not advertised as single and available but they should be held to the same bar by which the overwhelming majority of bright feminine minds here hold men to, that they be honest about their relationship status.

 

FWIW, as it appears to be the fashion now, 'it's complicated' means 'unavailable' to me. Wearing an obvious solitaire on one's marriage finger is equally indicative of 'unavailable. I've fed enough egos in one life ignoring that kind of stuff, thanks.

[sanskrit]

So going by your logic, I can say I have a girlfriend when I really don't and it's okay. Somehow, if I were to do that, most women wouldn't take too kindly to that.

 

Let's say every time you went out in public or at night, you had a handful or more of women pressing themselves on you, begging for your phone number, trying to buy you drinks, following you out of clubs and into the street, pestering you, being drunken buzzkills. A very small number of these women you might date, but it takes awhile to be sure. What do you do, accept the attention and allow some goober to then think she has you on "lockdown" for the rest of the night? or start in with BF lie and see how she does in the face of that? It's a sad fact, but in our modern culture, the vast majority of people, let alone hot women out at night, don't think they owe complete strangers -anything- not courtesy, not honesty, nothing. Ruling people out on that will miss lots of opportunities with otherwise good folks.

 

And a more direct response. Do you have female acquaintances? Have you ever kissed them or gone to a movie with them despite no relationship forthcoming? Are you dating women but not exclusively? Any one of these or other types can be reasonably rationalized into a "GF" and it's not fair to say conclusively that you would be lying outright by claiming a woman you had a date with was a GF or not. Fact is many of us with normal social lives would answer the question "Do you have a BF/GF?" with "Hmm, it's complicated," or "Well I'm seeing people, but not sure whether I have a BF/GF."

[Mad Max]

Let's say every time you went out in public or at night, you had a handful or more of women pressing themselves on you, begging for your phone number, trying to buy you drinks, following you out of clubs and into the street, pestering you, being drunken buzzkills. A very small number of these women you might date, but it takes awhile to be sure. What do you do, accept the attention and allow some goober to then think she has you on "lockdown" for the rest of the night? or start in with BF lie and see how she does in the face of that? It's a sad fact, but in our modern culture, the vast majority of people, let alone hot women out at night, don't think they owe complete strangers -anything- not courtesy, not honesty, nothing. Ruling people out on that will miss lots of opportunities with otherwise good folks.

 

 

Simply put, I tell them I'm not interested. I don't use a fake girlfriend line or anything like that. I'm completely honest. I may come across as a bit of an ass and I may be a lot of things, but dishonest is not one of them.

 

 

And a more direct response. Do you have female acquaintances? Have you ever kissed them or gone to a movie with them despite no relationship forthcoming? Are you dating women but not exclusively? Any one of these or other types can be reasonably rationalized into a "GF" and it's not fair to say conclusively that you would be lying outright by claiming a woman you had a date with was a GF or not. Fact is many of us with normal social lives would answer the question "Do you have a BF/GF?" with "Hmm, it's complicated," or "Well I'm seeing people, but not sure whether I have a BF/GF."

 

 

I do have female acquaintances. No, I don't kiss them or go to movies with them. I only date one woman at a time and actually stopped seeing a woman awhile back because I found out she was sleeping with someone else at the same time. Simply put, if anyone asks if I have a GF, I'm honest. I either say "Yes I do", "No I don't", or "No, but I am seeing someone". Bottom line is I am HONEST with whatever the situation is and don't deceive people. The difference between me and the women you mentioned earlier is I'm honest, have integrity, and self-respect. The women you mentioned are NOT quality and DO NOT have integrity.

[carhill]

Fact is many of us with normal social lives would answer the question "Do you have a BF/GF?" with "Hmm, it's complicated," or "Well I'm seeing people, but not sure whether I have a BF/GF."

 

Again, pretty simple:

 

If I'm in an exclusive, monogamous sexual relationship, I say that, shortened 'I have a girlfriend'.

 

If I'm single and dating people but am not committed nor having sex, I say that 'I'm dating some ladies but am not committed to anyone'

 

If I'm married, 'I'm married'

 

If I'm separated, as is currently the case, I tell women 'I'm separated'.

 

It's not really rocket science. And yes, I've had to push away some whom I know to be unavailable. It goes with the territory of having many female acquaintances. IME, pursuing or getting with a woman who, apparently, whether in reality or not, has a boyfriend, fiance or husband has been historically, uniformly, a negative relationship experience. At some point, one has to see the common denominator, and that's in the mirror. It ain't the ladies. They're doin' fine and getting exactly what they want.

[sanskrit]

Women help you when they like you

 

Couldn't agree more with the above, but the corollary "they don't help you, and will resort to anything to c-block you, until they know you, even just a little" is equally true IME. Remember that my replies in this thread are solely based on average guys (not "naturals") meeting women out in public, usually at night. But that's how LOTS of people meet the opposite sex.

 

Granted, if a woman you go to church with work with, are in a charity with or have known for some time makes up a fake BF, yes absolutely, that is dishonest, she has low integrity and low interest level.

[sanskrit]

Again, pretty simple:

 

If I'm in an exclusive, monogamous sexual relationship, I say that, shortened 'I have a girlfriend'.

 

If I'm single and dating people but am not committed nor having sex, I say that 'I'm dating some ladies but am not committed to anyone'

 

If I'm married, 'I'm married'

 

If I'm separated, as is currently the case, I tell women 'I'm separated'.

 

It's not really rocket science. And yes, I've had to push away some whom I know to be unavailable. It goes with the territory of having many female acquaintances. IME, pursuing or getting with a woman who, apparently, whether in reality or not, has a boyfriend, fiance or husband has been historically, uniformly, a negative relationship experience. At some point, one has to see the common denominator, and that's in the mirror. It ain't the ladies. They're doin' fine and getting exactly what they want.

 

I think you and Max are substituting typical male experience with typical female experience. Ask the average man, "Do you have a GF?" He may answer "No," "Yes," or "dating but not exclusively," and that No or playing the field is not going to change the disposition of the woman to him much if at all. She still likes him or doesn't, or has some "ring hunting pathology" that makes her more attracted to taken men.

 

OTOH, a guy asks "Do you have a BF," a woman may answer "No," "Yes," "I'm dating but not exclusively," the guy, or a majority of guys will take the "No" and the "playing the field," as green lights to pour on more attention, to press her harder, be more and more intrusive, etc. If she starts with "I have a BF," and that really means, "I slept with an ex a month ago," or "I had a date this week," she is not technically lying, but has maintained an immense degree of control over the interaction should she wish to terminate it.

 

Once more, my comments are meant for meeting strangers out, not previously known women. If you walk away the minute you hear as simple "BF bomb" from a strange woman out, you may be walking away prematurely. Moreover, and haven't mentioned this yet, many women met out are meeting other women. Hang around and you might meet three new women instead of one.

[carhill]

Alternatively, to support the hypothesis in favor of pursuing apparently attached people, there are many anecdotes on LS of people who believe that any unmarried person is fair game for pursuit, and, for some, that pursuit even extends to married people, and successful relationships have resulted from those pursuits and partnerships. IMO, the important component is *compatibility*. If those two people are compatible, and this includes aspects of how they interrelate and reveal/hide parts of their lives, then they are, presuming parity in other areas, compatible for a healthy relationship. I do know people like this. They have a grasp of the nuances of human interaction and how to manage and influence it that I will never have. It's not in my psychology to see human interaction the way they do. I accept this, now. Formerly, I did not, to my peril.

 

So, while the advice to pursue and persevere may be healthy for another man, it is not for me. I've managed to date, have relationships and become married and the common denominator (I just realized!) in all those dynamics was that they were with women who were honest about their relationship status, and were 'single'. It's been the unhealthy, unsatisfying, dramatic ones, a few chronicled here on LS, which began with dishonest disclosure, generally the opposite of 'I have a boyfriend/husband'. It's been, variously, a pathway to receptacle and/or OM status. As outlined in the OP, I've been in #1 and #2 (no pun intended ) enough to know 'there's your sign!'. 'It's complicated'

[sanskrit]

Simply put, I tell them I'm not interested. I don't use a fake girlfriend line or anything like that. I'm completely honest. I may come across as a bit of an ass and I may be a lot of things, but dishonest is not one of them.

 

Simply put, and I do not say this insultingly, there is very little chance you have ever experienced the level of female attention out at night that compares to the level of male attention the average female gets, and if you have, it's likely been a rare occurence. Attractive women are always dealing with interest from strange men, and for every one you see hitting on them in bars, there are 3-10 banging on her phone with calls and texts at all times. At this level of incoming attention, I give them a pass to use the BF line out meeting strangers, and react to it accordingly as just another test.

 

When you meet a woman, you will be treated colored by her last experience with a strange man hitting on her. That could have been ten minutes ago, or an hour or a day. And what's going through her head is "another one? hope this guy isn't like the last dumb doofus who wouldn't go away." And there's no way for her to know until you talk for a bit.

 

Last week at the gym, I was working out near a couple. No idea whether they are BF/GF, but it was apparent that the girl is just marking time with this guy. I got to listen to their conversation for over 30 minutes, and it was basically her talking on and on, and the guy supplicating to her and kissing her ass, when he even had a moment to get a word in edgewise. He was adding nothing to the conversation, yet hovering on her cloyingly. The very opposite of challenge. Now, those two may actually be BF/GF, but I am certain the girl is looking, as this guy presents no challenge to her whatsoever. What's more, it was plain by her tone that he bores her to death and she does not love him. If she says she "has a BF" when meeting someone out, she is being totally honest, but she is so very ready to jump ship.

Edited October 2, 2010 by sanskrit

[carhill]

OP, I totally missed this in my responses, but, in your original post, what is the focus of the male in this situation? IMO, that has a lot to do with perspective. If he's looking for someone to spend some time with, have a little fun with and perhaps bang a few times, I've found women with boyfriends and husbands (or those who present themselves as such) are usually good for some fun times and a bit of drama to keep the adrenaline flowing. However, and this is what likely colors my responses, I consistently look for LTR's and/or being in a marital relationship and have no real interest in casual sex or having an erstwhile dinner companion. To me, the 'feel' of what the other men are describing in a quite positive and convincing way is just wrong for what I want in a LTR/marital partner. They, however, might revel in that challenge and managing the relationship on the ragged edge. Life experience has taught me that people's basic personalities don't change. Ethics/morals/beliefs all remain relatively constant, IMO and IME. IME, having been rejected many times by attractive and successful women whom I presume did and do get many offers, I found, the more attractive and successful, the more likely the woman was to be straight-up honest... 'I'm not interested in you in that way' or 'I don't see anything romantic between us'. Heard that plenty of times, probably more than I would admit IRL. The words often stung, but I respected the speaker of them for their honesty. Their response told me I had chosen right in who I pursued. And yes, there were some whom I had repeat performances with because I woundn't take no for an answer.

 

On LS, we often have discussed women who are 'Ms. Right' versus 'Ms. Right now'. Any delineation from the OP regarding that dynamic? You did say this:

 

Again, for just a dating situation, I'm not putting myself in harm's way!

 

If this is indeed 'just a dating situation', then I will retract my commentary. Casual dating with no interest in a LTR or marriage is a totally different realm of interaction.

[sanskrit]

Something else, want to move this discussion to a more proactive light. What do you do when a strange woman drops a "BF bomb" on you out? Ignore it and proceed to talk to her. DON'T talk about the BF or relationship, just continue your conversation as if she hadn't said it. If you are good at talking to women, she finds you attractive, and she was screening, she will give you the same positive signs any other woman would. Give her enough time to recant or back out of the BF statement, then ask for her number or continue towards whatever conclusion you are seeking.

 

Above all, most importantly, do not "glom" on her, press her in any way or be at all aggressive, just charming and flirtatious, no compliments, no buying drinks, no pressure of any kind whatsoever. Even walk off and talk to someone else for awhile, turn away from her entirely, say you need to leave soon and look at your watch. If she repeats "I have a BF" after the privilege of your conversation for awhile, take her at her word and maybe ask about single friends, as they are often on their way to you and meeting her as you speak. Never squander a social opportunity. This is the difference between all the men it seems who have this "one girl" they are all focused on and miserable over, and the ones who have lots of options. They maximize every social opportunity.

 

Another anecdote about dealing with taken women. I went out about a two years ago, solo as usual, and saw a group of very well-dressed, very good-looking women, extraordinary actually, could have all been actresses or models. The "queen bee" had a gigantic ring on, and so I went straight to her and flirted with her mercilessly. She said, "I'm married," and my reply was "I know this, but as you are obviously the 'madam' here, I better suck up to you first." She howled laughing and stuck to me the rest of the night, and I had instant street cred with all her friends, and since she was very good looking, had social value with every woman in the bar who had no idea I was not her husband. Met a woman that night I ended up dating a few times due to not just "walking away" when hearing objections from taken women. Learned a big lesson and met some cool new people. The more one can turn off the typical left brained "go out, meet women, get phone numbers (or laid)," thought process, the more opportunity one can uncover. Be like McGuyver out at night, work with the tools you have at hand and have fun with it.

 

And one final thing related to the above. One exception to the "don't buy women drinks" rule is with a group of 2-3 hot married women out on "girl's night." Don't open with the drinks, you have to prove you are a complete gentleman seeking some fun, not hitting on them, just flirting and kicking back. Once you have all of them entertained and they are responsive and none of them are acting bitchy towards you, then buy the drinks. You will instantly become their "project" to set up for the night, as these types are always looking for some vicarious experience. You will never be treated better by strange women out in your life than in the company of 2-3 hot married women who obviously like you, and it's well worth that round of drinks, which they will usually repay also.

 

Not strictly topical, the above, but worth mentioning that it's not always about "getting the woman who has a BF," but often using social skills to maximize every introduction.

[sanskrit]

If it's work and not fun, you aren't doing it right. I had a blast doing the things I have described in this thread. The reason they call it "game" is that if you approach it as anything other than a fun game, you have already lost because you have your ego involved.

 

The goal is not to get a phone number or two or have one woman willing to go home with you after lots of begging and ass kissing, but to have a really good time, and in having that good time, have all of them after you, every single one in the place, even the ones there with guys. Then the cherry on top is when the best looking woman in the place comes all the way across the room from a corner where she was being fawned on by 5 guys taller and better looking than you, takes your phone out of your hand, and puts her number in it with no introductions. Then as you are leaving, she turns up beside you out of nowhere, comes up and says, "hey is there somewhere we can go make out?"

 

That's what taking a little time and effort to be nice to married/taken women can do for you, as stated before, meeting women is never easier, never any less work, than when you are in the company of good looking married women. Oh, and I am no model, not wealthy, 5'10-11" and not at all a pickup artist type, so it does actually take a bit of effort for a guy like me to set this kind of thing up.

 

But if -that's- work, I'm a workafrickinholic.

[Mad Max]

Simply put, and I do not say this insultingly, there is very little chance you have ever experienced the level of female attention out at night that compares to the level of male attention the average female gets, and if you have, it's likely been a rare occurence. Attractive women are always dealing with interest from strange men, and for every one you see hitting on them in bars, there are 3-10 banging on her phone with calls and texts at all times. At this level of incoming attention, I give them a pass to use the BF line out meeting strangers, and react to it accordingly as just another test.

 

When you meet a woman, you will be treated colored by her last experience with a strange man hitting on her. That could have been ten minutes ago, or an hour or a day. And what's going through her head is "another one? hope this guy isn't like the last dumb doofus who wouldn't go away." And there's no way for her to know until you talk for a bit.

 

Last week at the gym, I was working out near a couple. No idea whether they are BF/GF, but it was apparent that the girl is just marking time with this guy. I got to listen to their conversation for over 30 minutes, and it was basically her talking on and on, and the guy supplicating to her and kissing her ass, when he even had a moment to get a word in edgewise. He was adding nothing to the conversation, yet hovering on her cloyingly. The very opposite of challenge. Now, those two may actually be BF/GF, but I am certain the girl is looking, as this guy presents no challenge to her whatsoever. What's more, it was plain by her tone that he bores her to death and she does not love him. If she says she "has a BF" when meeting someone out, she is being totally honest, but she is so very ready to jump ship.

 

 

I don't give a sh*t how attractive she is. Either be honest, or get lost. As for the guy, if he's really as bad as you say she is, then she should just dump him on the spot. Stringing him along makes her look worse.

[CLC2008]

If you're out somewhere and approach someone, no woman (or man for that matter) owes the other further explanation beyond what they're given.

[sanskrit]

As for the guy, if he's really as bad as you say she is, then she should just dump him on the spot. Stringing him along makes her look worse.

 

I don't know anything about that couple, even if they are a couple. Was just using it as an example of a case where a woman may actually have a BF and wants to be done with him.

 

Max, your posts reveal a very black and white view of this issue, and while I agree that is appropriate in some cases, IMO it is not when first meeting strangers. After all, a woman can have a BF and break up with him the very next day. She can have a BF and then he gets caught cheating the very next day. She can have a BF who breaks up with her and she is still holding onto false hope, maybe even months later. She can have a guy she slept with two weeks ago whom she would like to be a BF, but he is starting to fade on her. She can wake up to a phone call out of the blue that her BF is moving or has moved. There is lots of gray area in this topic.

[dispatch3d]

Here's the thing, girls with boyfriends that aren't happy hit on guys way more than single girls do. They are more forward, talkative, etc. and easier to "game". I definitely don't prefer girls with boyfriends, or would even look at it as a good thing/positive (cause I wouldn't), I just notice that they flirt wayyyy more with me than single girls.

 

I'm talking obvious flirting not just talking to me.

 

So a big part of this is that it's sometimes/frequently easier to get with an unhappy girl who has a boyfriend than with a single girl. So uhhh yeah. What can you do?

 

I obviously would never "attempt" to break up a couple. That's kinda blah. I mean, if you're open to starting things with girls who have boyfriends, why go for the ones who aren't that interested? Especially considering everything I said in the first paragraph.

[Seamless74]

seriously lots of good points on both sides of the discussion.. Buts let just be real Some guys are pathological liars in the dating department some girls are as well.. Some guys like Mad Max have integrity some girls have integrity..... Its really just the human condition... If its supposed to happen its gonna happen regardless...

[tami-chan]

Would you rather that a woman says she does not have BF and find out she does or she says she does and then she reveals to you she actually does not have one?

 

That said, sometimes, I wear a cocktail ring (diamonds) on my left ring finger when I go out. It is, of course NOT an engagement ring but many men do not know that and assume it must be. Does that mean I am lying? BTW, certain cultures wear their wedding ring/engagement ring on the right ring finger.