Alexanda Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 What I want to know, is why guys think this happens ONLY to THEM?? Same goes for being a nice GIRL...when I started applying your same overall principles to dating I finally got the respect I deserved. Prior to that, I was NICE and was treated BADLY. Actually goes for platonic relationships too. Never give strangers more trust, affection, or loyalty than they have proven they DESERVE. Most people get burned when they break this rule.. Damn right! I especially agree with the last two sentences.
Author Jeff M Stevens Posted September 22, 2010 Author Posted September 22, 2010 Sanskrit I agree with you that there is a different dynamic for women and men. You are right that men have to be the aggressor and women hold what we call "the rejection card." We generally have to approach, ask them out, take them out and then build the relationship. Not that women can't be "rejected" but as the aggressor a man can be turned down a lot easier. Having said all that, I do stand by my statements that being too nice can apply to women too. Women can be walked on as well if they let themselves be a doormat. That's all I was agreeing with. I'm totally feeling what you're saying but I wasn't trying to say that women and men have the same roles in relationships, just that having self-respect and healthy self-esteem is good for either sex I don't give advice to women about men as a general rule so I'm loathe to comment on what is good for women but again, self-respect and healthy self-esteem seem to be pretty universal qualities we can all aspire too Alexanda Here's another thing you might like. "In life, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate." Sometimes people are so happy to be with the other person, in any kind of relationship, that they give up too much of themselves. They are always in a weak negotiating position. We always teach guys on the show to not be in that position with women they're dating but it can really apply to any situation. Friendship, business, family...etc. I don't mean we need to dominate the other person. I mean we need to be on equal footing with the other person.
Sphere Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Every woman I have dated has always wanted me to take the lead and I was actually ditched by one of the sweetest girls I've met because I didn't take the lead in a relationship. Interesting, and it is at odds with the common view that most women want to be as dominant or more dominant then the man in a relationship. I've had many an argument about this on here with Sassykitten and Zengirl and what they say is at grave odds with what I've experienced.
carhill Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 OP, looking forward to reading your perspective on individual issues here, which are posted aplenty. LS is as much about support as it is methodology, and you sound like a person who can be a great asset in that regard. I didn't see it asked or stated, but have you been married? If so, how did/does that go? Any perspective you can offer on that front, as there are often threads in which husbands lament the loss of their spouse's love and attraction due to the boringly familiar devoted and loving husband? Perhaps that's an area you can focus on here, though it might conflict with your business goals, since the basic tenets of your advice could be formed to work for married men as well. Something to consider. Your perspective on negotiation is well-taken. For *some* nice guys (and nice girls, too), the first aspect of that path is learning to care less; to elementally change their emotional setpoint wrt romantic (and other) relationships. This is not to infer to not care, but rather to care in a balanced and healthy way, cognizant of one's own needs, and accepting that one cannot control how another behaves or feels, and to accept it without prejudice, mindful of their personal boundaries. Lastly, as a friendly suggestion, the site frowns upon including commercial links in one's signature, profile and posts, especially those where one personally profits. Your user name is easily searched, so people desiring more personalized information can find your site on the internet, and I'd hate to see your good advice wiped away because of a violation of the TOS. Thanks for your perspective and looking forward to future advice.
Don Ho Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Jeff. In a way you're correct about men being the aggressor, because we're men and that's part of our nature, but IMO, what a guy should really want are women that chase him; women that do the pursuing and the asking. It's always up to the woman to let a guy know that she's interested. Sure a guy has to put it out there, but like I've always said, if a woman is interested she WILL let a guy know. Just like it's up to the woman after a few months to ask the guy if he wants to be her BF. If a guy chooses women that chase or are interested in him, instead of chasing "hot" women that he "can't live without" or just is "totally in love with", a guy will be MUCH better off. A guy can chase a "9-10" and do all the dumb stuff that the AFC does to win her over and buy her attention (likely with little success) OR a guy can have a "7" chasing him and wanting him. Sure, every guy wants a 9 or 10, but IMO, it's better to have an attractive woman that has a high interest level instead of a hot woman that has less interest.
Author Jeff M Stevens Posted September 22, 2010 Author Posted September 22, 2010 Sphere Women want a gentleman. A guy that does the traditional male thing and is the aggressor but is also not too wimpy or too macho. He is a guy that knows the guy's role and he is a strong man that can pull it off without dominating her or being too wimpy. Carhill As far as marriage goes, what I've learned from my business partner is that guys need to do maintenance with their wives as far as dating them at least once a week, not being needy, clingy, macho, couch potato-like or any other negative, and not changing from the guy they fell in love with. However, the crux of what I tend to focus on in my articles and on these forums is to help guys identify early on in the dating scenario whether or not they have a keeper or not and if they do have a keeper how to SLOWLY build a relationship with her as time goes on. As far as my personal situation goes, I try not to discuss it. I don't mean to sound as if I'm being standoffish because you asked a fair question in an honorable way but on the show and in any written advice, my business partner and I have generally stayed away from talking about ourselves. Let's just say I have had my dating experiences and leave it at that I will tell you that my business partner gives marriage advice but it is something I generally stay away from because I've laser focused on the dating aspect as I've described above. I learned and focused on the dating stuff from him so I'm very comfortable in writing articles about that as well as offering forum advice. As far as marriage advice goes, he would be better than me at doing that as he's been in the game nearly 40 years and does it all the time. It's not something I'm totally comfortable with. I can offer snippets as I did above based on what I've heard from him but I don't feel as comfortable in that realm as I do with what I've focused on (dating). I do agree with your take on negotiation. I think you're right on. As far as not putting a link in my signature, I removed that...I only identify myself as a co-host of a show. Is that all right? I don't want to get banned! Did I fairly answer your questions and respond in a way that you would find satisfying? I do want to be an asset to these forums and GREATLY appreciate your post to me that I perceived as very kind and designed to help me Don Ho Right on. We teach guys to be a "challenge" so that women feel as if they need to chase. As guys we are expected to be the aggressor but we can turn that around by laying back and not giving too much of ourselves so women have to know us slowly instead of rushing in to rejection!
carhill Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 OP, on the challenge, support and advice front, here's a good place to start: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t246756/ BTW, your commercial link is still in your profile; at least it's visible to me. One aspect of LS that you might be currently unaware is that of how some members use the alert button to affect your ability to post here. Obvious violations of the TOS, like attacking other posters, off-topic postings (my excursion here is an example), and including commercial links as I mentioned above, can be used by such persons to 'get rid of you' if they've a mind to. Since your advice will likely venture into the controversial, and you don't yet have PM privileges, I wanted to let you know this. Perhaps, if I had received this type of dating advice 30 years ago, my relationship and marital experiences would have been markedly different. Can an old dog learn new 'tricks'? Time will tell
Author Jeff M Stevens Posted September 22, 2010 Author Posted September 22, 2010 Carhill, Thanks for your advice and yes an old dog can learn new tricks. I can tell you that many guys have turned things around using our advice. We get a ton of "you changed my life" letters and guys are genuinely happy. Here's another thing to...we get letters from WOMEN who are happy we do what we do. We teach guys to treat women with respect, affection and romance, use humor and not to make her mama or the psychiatrist in a relationship. We also teach them not to be too wimpy or too macho. Good women that are honest with themselves love this advice. By the way, they do allow you to put a home page link in the profile and they do allow for links in the profile....I mean there are spaces for them...per your advice I have removed my link but in reading this: [sIZE=2]You may not post or transmit charity requests, petitions for signatures, chain letters or letters relating to pyramid schemes. You may not post or transmit any advertising, promotional materials or any other solicitation of other users of the Service for goods or services except in those areas (e.g., a classified bulletin board) that are designated for such purpose.[/sIZE] ...I understand I am not allowed to solicit but the link I did post is my home page as I do co-host the show and I don't tell people to visit or even try to sell them anything. In fact, our show is free of charge if you listen live on Friday nights. I don't want to get banned but also I don't want to go to far the other way. In my posts I never tell people to visit the show (never would) and it is a free show. Would that be a different case? I respect your advice and thoughts and am just asking. Until I hear from you, I'll keep the links removed but I'd like to know what you think based on what I just wrote Thanks!
GooseChaser Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 OP, on the challenge, support and advice front, here's a good place to start: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t246756/ BTW, your commercial link is still in your profile; at least it's visible to me. One aspect of LS that you might be currently unaware is that of how some members use the alert button to affect your ability to post here. Obvious violations of the TOS, like attacking other posters, off-topic postings (my excursion here is an example), and including commercial links as I mentioned above, can be used by such persons to 'get rid of you' if they've a mind to. Since your advice will likely venture into the controversial, and you don't yet have PM privileges, I wanted to let you know this. Perhaps, if I had received this type of dating advice 30 years ago, my relationship and marital experiences would have been markedly different. Can an old dog learn new 'tricks'? Time will tell The internet can really have a great effect on us that way, can't it? It's great being able to come to a place like this sorta anonymously and read about these things, and then be able to ask your own questions too!
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