SadandConfusedWA Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Sounds like my kinda guy (no homo). And its those "average" girls who will be the most appreciative of a guy like him... I find it really cute when you add "no homo"
zengirl Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I was in a similar situation. When I was overweight I was part of a group of girls I loved hanging around with at uni and who I had great conversations with. In a matter of a year I lost a ton of weight, wore makeup, got better haircuts and clothes, got happier in general, and they shunned me but never told me why. At the same time though I started getting heaps more male attention. Eventually I just had to make new friends. Thing is, I don't think my personality changed, except that I was happier in general. Therefore, when I see someone who I think is hot based on their natural looks and not considering their clothes or bling, I have no idea what they will be like until they start talking. I'm going to bet the happiness played its role too. Unhappy people generally can't stand to be around happy people unless they have serious emotional ties to them. (Not saying both don't happen on occasion, but that to me is more universally true than less attractive people having some issue being around more attractive people.) I've never felt any issues with being both smart and pretty, though I don't think I realized I was pretty until I was almost finished with college and wasn't able to even call myself pretty until this year. Then again, I find beauty itself to be surprisingly difficult to pin down as an aesthetic concept. Maybe I'm just too abstract. I do run into issues when I do something that's more "sexy" (wearing showier clothes, going-out heels, etc) or "glam" (loads of make-up, etc), but I think that's a different thing. But, really, I would say it's the rare individual who's had an issue with me because I was smart, pretty, thin, or any combination of the the three. Now, when I became really happy with myself. That pissed some people off to no end! I still find myself in situations where I'm this mirror people use to reflect their own pain. It's weird.
gypsy_nicky Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I think it's jealousy, and it's something I remember feeling when looking at gorgeous women before I got into shape. Plus, it's easy to assume that an attractive person is a complete airhead with nothing to offer except for their looks. Hence the throwing people off guard part. By the way, you do look a lot like one of my best friends in Georgia! True. Its also usually from your own gender where jealousy takes place.
a_woman Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Sounds like my kinda guy (no homo). And its those "average" girls who will be the most appreciative of a guy like him... maybe.... I'm slightly suspicious of men who date below their league. I've seen friends do that regularly and it seemed to me that they wanted women who were grateful for the attention.
Author Gallaxia Posted August 5, 2010 Author Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) Unfortunately, jealousy is a huge part of friendships between women. It's not healthy. I had a similar experience of losing friends when I got healthier, and sometimes it can make it harder to make new female friends. Making male friends and keeping gay ones is easy! That said, making female friends seems to automatically become so much easier whenever I'm in a relationship, maybe because a lot of them feel threatened otherwise. Yep. And even so, they'll "keep a close eye" on you. Speaking of crazy comments...if one more of my parents colleagues ask me "when's the wedding date?" or "who's the lucky girl?" at the ripe age of 21, I just tell them "it just hasn't happened yet" (though I'm usually thinking why do they expect me to be married/contemplating it right now?) I guess I'm supposed to be tied down right now, planning a marriage..jeez. Not only are they crazy, but they're also depressing. They're forgetting it's a different generation. We're marrying a bit later. We're trying to do/experience more things for personal fulfillment before the marriage & kids. I think 21 is just too young. I've never felt any issues with being both smart and pretty Now, when I became really happy with myself. That pissed some people off to no end! I still find myself in situations where I'm this mirror people use to reflect their own pain. It's weird. Can I ask what country you're in? Edited August 5, 2010 by Gallaxia
zengirl Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Can I ask what country you're in? Korea now, which, yes, most of the Korean girls are pretty. So, it's a bit different. (Then again, I'd say the Westerners are a very different separate subset.) But I'm from the U.S. and have spent most of my life there.
Sphere Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I've dated some incredibly good looking women and only a few of them had really bad attitudes and personalities. They showed their true colours after date two and never heard from me again. You get some beautiful women with fantastic personalities and others with not such good personalities, yet I guarantee that the ones with horrid attitudes will attract more male attention.
meerkat stew Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 maybe.... I'm slightly suspicious of men who date below their league. I've seen friends do that regularly and it seemed to me that they wanted women who were grateful for the attention. Men date who says yes, above league, below league, whatever, men date the women who agree to go out with them. And since there are lots of women out there who will only date what they consider "up" in many cases "way up" this makes maintaining any dating parity, if that could even be done, especially problematic.
a_woman Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Men date who says yes, above league, below league, whatever, men date the women who agree to go out with them. And since there are lots of women out there who will only date what they consider "up" in many cases "way up" this makes maintaining any dating parity, if that could even be done, especially problematic. I'm in the UK so I meant dating as in a 'relationship' rather than the casual dating that's so prevalent in the States. I take your point of course but when it's consistent, I'm suspicious nevertheless.
BubbleFreak Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 You get some beautiful women with fantastic personalities and others with not such good personalities, yet I guarantee that the ones with horrid attitudes will attract more male attention. Why is that?
BubbleFreak Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I'm going to bet the happiness played its role too. Unhappy people generally can't stand to be around happy people... I think you've got a good point.
Sphere Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I'm in the UK so I meant dating as in a 'relationship' rather than the casual dating that's so prevalent in the States. I take your point of course but when it's consistent, I'm suspicious nevertheless. I'm from the UK too and dating to me does not equate to a relationship. Dating is dating, a relationship is a relationship as expressed in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Sphere Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Why is that? It's simple, these women know how to attract male attention. They're more sexually charged, they're more dominant. They know they're good looking and they'll use it to manipulate men who are stupid enough to have anything to do with them. Of course there lots and lots of men for them to screw over as they are inundated with man after man. These females are the same side of the coin as what women call "players".
USMCHokie Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 maybe.... I'm slightly suspicious of men who date below their league. I've seen friends do that regularly and it seemed to me that they wanted women who were grateful for the attention. But to those who don't think as "highly" of themselves, they aren't actually dating below their league...they are dating right where they think they should be dating... But you are right, there are certainly some guys who prey on girls "below their league" because they think it's easier to take advantage of them.
meerkat stew Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I'm in the UK so I meant dating as in a 'relationship' rather than the casual dating that's so prevalent in the States. I take your point of course but when it's consistent, I'm suspicious nevertheless. Same thing for relationships. Men tend to adapt their expectations to women who accept them whether it's early dating or staying in relationships. Moreover, how are we to know when anyone is truly "dating up" or "dating down" based on appearance alone? Don't want to turn this into another gender-baiting thread, or rather a U.S. gender baiting thread, and had typed more, but that's all I'll say on that.
zengirl Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Same thing for relationships. Men tend to adapt their expectations to women who accept them whether it's early dating or staying in relationships. Moreover, how are we to know when anyone is truly "dating up" or "dating down" based on appearance alone? Don't want to turn this into another gender-baiting thread, or rather a U.S. gender baiting thread, and had typed more, but that's all I'll say on that. I think you should take gender out of it entirely. I may not agree with everything you say, but I think the bolded portion is a really good point. How do you know what "league" anyone is in? Or what "league" they think they're in? These "leagues" are generally pretty murky.
Sphere Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 There's no such thing as a league table, it's all in ones head. I have seen some of the most average looking men with some gorgeous women and if you peer through the window closely, you'll notice that the man has his house in order. He'll have a car, he'll have a good job, he'll have hobbies, interests and passions in life, he'll have a good social circle and importantly, he'll be happy and comfortable with his life and who he is, so in his woman's eyes, he went from being average to being the complete package, therefore highly attractive. Men who believe in league tables and settle are men with little or no value and their value can only be determined by them and no one else. Yet they seem to think women control their value and sense of self worth and this is not the case, just like men do not hold a woman's value or self worth only she does.
Shakz Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Personally, I try not to place expectations upon people when I'm seeing them for the first time. But there are times where you see a gorgeously dressed woman or really sexy guy and it's something about how they hold themselves that just screams 'mean'. The kind that makes you feel uncomfortable around their presence.. almost like a threat. It could just be their face though Then there are others who look so cute that you're content within their beautiful presence. I think just how they hold themselves really sets up how they'll be preceived. Regardless of their hot exterior. Kinda like an alpha vs omega thing. It is really more about perception than expectation. I have had enough experience to know that a beautiful woman or a handsome man is no more or less kind or cruel than someone less attractive. But an attractive person generally knows they are attractive and will often exude a confidence that less attractive people percieve as "mean" or arrogant, simply because they could not imagine behaving in such a manner. Some attractive people however, if you really compared them physically to someone off the street, aren't really as objectively good-looking as you thought. But the force of their personality creates a perception of beauty in the minds of those around them that transcends their actual physical appearance. It's all about how a person percieves themselves, and how that perception is translated into action.
GoodOnPaper Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) There's no such thing as a league table, it's all in ones head. I have seen some of the most average looking men with some gorgeous women and if you peer through the window closely, you'll notice that the man has his house in order. He'll have a car, he'll have a good job, he'll have hobbies, interests and passions in life, he'll have a good social circle and importantly, he'll be happy and comfortable with his life and who he is, so in his woman's eyes, he went from being average to being the complete package, therefore highly attractive. Men who believe in league tables and settle are men with little or no value and their value can only be determined by them and no one else. Yet they seem to think women control their value and sense of self worth and this is not the case, just like men do not hold a woman's value or self worth only she does. The implicit assumption in this "it's all in your head" business is that the name of the game is to land the hottest woman possible. If you can, you're a winner, if you can't, you are a loser, "nice guy", AFC, etc. Is this really the right game to be playing? Tying back to the OP, I have always assumed that the better looking a woman is, the better at sex she is. Is it possible to have better sex with someone below-average looking but with whom you are more compatible? (If so, that information would have been highly useful to me 25 years ago . . .) I also think that everyone is fueled by external validation to pretty much the same degree. It's just that very attractive people don't "feel" the validation because they can take it for granted. I do this myself when it comes to education level. I chuckle to myself when I see people on LS fret about their own education level or that of their partner or potential partner. For me, getting a PhD was a piece of cake and I am now in a job that I can't be fired from -- and all of this did not help with my dating/relationship/sex life one iota. Edited August 5, 2010 by GoodOnPaper copy/paste problems
SassyKitten Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Speaking of crazy comments...if one more of my parents colleagues ask me "when's the wedding date?" or "who's the lucky girl?" at the ripe age of 21, I just tell them "it just hasn't happened yet" (though I'm usually thinking why do they expect me to be married/contemplating it right now?) I guess I'm supposed to be tied down right now, planning a marriage..jeez. Not only are they crazy, but they're also depressing. I think that's the South for you. People get married so young it's ridiculous, don't be ashamed with needing to live your life on your own terms first and allowing yourself to be picky about who gets to be the most important person in your life for the rest of your life! True. Its also usually from your own gender where jealousy takes place. That's what I meant. I wasn't aware though that men sense this same kind of jealousy from their own gender. Yep. And even so, they'll "keep a close eye" on you. Precisely!
sumdude Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 TTying back to the OP, I have always assumed that the better looking a woman is, the better at sex she is. Is it possible to have better sex with someone below-average looking but with whom you are more compatible? (If so, that information would have been highly useful to me 25 years ago . . .) . He$$ no, how physically attrative someone is has nothing to do with how good a lover they are.. or how intelligent, caring or trustworthy.ut doesn Someone born with really good looks and maintains them doesn't have to work as hard to find someone. Applies to men and women but more so to women since men are still expected to do the approaching. Outside of the 10s in the world who don't get approached much because they seem unobtainable the more attractive women get hit on a lot and have had to develop a bit of a defense mechanism to weed out the men they perceive as unworthy. They have so many options and a certain confidence because they can be picky.
sumdude Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 That's what I meant. I wasn't aware though that men sense this same kind of jealousy from their own gender. Oh absolutely! If one guy in a group has had a lot of success with women and others don't there can be resentmant.
zengirl Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 The implicit assumption in this "it's all in your head" business is that the name of the game is to land the hottest woman possible. If you can, you're a winner, if you can't, you are a loser, "nice guy", AFC, etc. Is this really the right game to be playing? That sounds like the fast track to unhappiness to me. Tying back to the OP, I have always assumed that the better looking a woman is, the better at sex she is. Is it possible to have better sex with someone below-average looking but with whom you are more compatible? (If so, that information would have been highly useful to me 25 years ago . . .) I don't really know about sex with women, but the best lover I've ever had was not the best looking. By far. I think a lot of it is about compatibility (physical, emotional, and mental). I also think that everyone is fueled by external validation to pretty much the same degree. It's just that very attractive people don't "feel" the validation because they can take it for granted. I do this myself when it comes to education level. I chuckle to myself when I see people on LS fret about their own education level or that of their partner or potential partner. For me, getting a PhD was a piece of cake and I am now in a job that I can't be fired from -- and all of this did not help with my dating/relationship/sex life one iota. Interesting thoughts. I disagree that everyone is fueled by external validation to the same degree, but I agree that it affects everyone. I think there is a balance between internal and external validation, and some people fall more on either side.
GoodOnPaper Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I don't really know about sex with women, but the best lover I've ever had was not the best looking. I'm not surprised. With guys, the technique factor is very important and that doesn't necessarily correlate with attractiveness -- although you could argue that more attractive guys are more likely to develop good technique because of more sex opportunities. What makes a woman good in bed -- at least IMO -- are responsiveness and lack of inhibition, qualities that are highly dependent on self body-image, which in turn, I would expect to correlate quite well with attractiveness.
zengirl Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I'm not surprised. With guys, the technique factor is very important and that doesn't necessarily correlate with attractiveness -- although you could argue that more attractive guys are more likely to develop good technique because of more sex opportunities. What makes a woman good in bed -- at least IMO -- are responsiveness and lack of inhibition, qualities that are highly dependent on self body-image, which in turn, I would expect to correlate quite well with attractiveness. But some of the prettiest girls I know absolutely hate their bodies! So, you're saying it correlates more with self-image. (That makes some sense. Though not entirely. I believe there is technique in sex for a gal as well. It may not be required to make it happen, but it plays into many situations.)
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