Enchanted Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I disagree with that. I've had 2 GREAT relationships. and both times, while everything was perfect, they asked why such a great guy like myself, would want to be with such a mediocre woman like them. I think it happens MORE when things are going good for people. Maybe they sit back and realize how good they have it, how lucky they are to have found a perfect match, and it causes them to think they are not worth such happiness. Well, that's not exactly the same thing. They were not saying that they hated all men and that you had some sneaky underhanded evil inside of you that you were hiding behind with this act of kindness, like Woggle thinks. They were just insecure and feeling like you were too good for them. They were feeling bad about themselves, not about all men in general.
zengirl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) If you don't trust an entire gender of folks, your life is fairly exhausting. I'd say that what the woman cautions against includes that. This is true. You realize that was sarcasm, right? They disagree with her because she is being sympathetic to men. I really, mostly, saw the article as a woman's magazine tripe, not really being sympathetic to men, so much as giving "inspirational daily advice" to women. The advice isn't bad, but it could certainly apply to both genders. And be better written. It's basically just a watered down tenet of Taoism she's suggesting. Been around for 100s of years. Edited July 18, 2010 by zengirl
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 You are admitting that you are a misogynist then. Go to any counselor and they will tell you that that is an unrealistic and unhealthy way of viewing the world. All of us have been hurt by people we are attracted to. All of us have seen them do horrible things. All of us have been vulnerable with them and then been treated like crap. Romantic relationships cause more pain and drama than regular friendships because they are deeper. It hurts worse when they go wrong. This is what happens whether you are attracted to either guys or girls. I'm not going to lie. I've had moments in life where I wanted to distrust and hate all men, but I got over it because just because I've seen certain men do bad things, it doesn't mean that they are ALL that way. And I especially don't understand why you don't get this. You have a wife who is treated you well and you still think so poorly of women? Usually this only happens when people are in bad relationships, not when they are in good ones. Cut him some slack on this. I've been on this site for a long, long time and I have seen him improve. Most guys who have really deep issues with women... it starts and ends with their mom. Being burned by an ex or two is not enough to cause that kind of deep scarring.
Enchanted Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Cut him some slack on this. I've been on this site for a long, long time and I have seen him improve. Most guys who have really deep issues with women... it starts and ends with their mom. Being burned by an ex or two is not enough to cause that kind of deep scarring. Yea, I could see that being the case.
Woggle Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I do have a good wife but I have seen good women do a 180% at the drop of a hat. I don't hate women but I certainly do have problems trusting them and every time I start to think maybe women are not so bad and maybe I am the one with the problem I see something or read something that proves me right. I trust my wife more than I have ever trusted or probably ever will trust any woman but I am mindful of what often happens to men who think they have a great marriage.
sweetjasmine Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I did address the actual arguments. I said any man who has ever been in a relationship where he felt he could never do anything right can relate to this. Women have a habit when they find a good man to pick apart every single tiny little fault he has and blow everything out of proportion. Point me to a thread on here where a good number of men actually took the men's side. Women stick together like hornets no matter who is actually right or wrong. I specifically said my arguments/criticisms of the article. You didn't address those. I think you primarily argued that being prepared for relationship disasters is an Ok, natural thing for women to do... while what the author was talking about should apply to both genders. You also took issue with the idea that women are "conditioned". I'm just trying to paraphrase your argument.... so I may be off a bit. That's part of it. I'll try to summarize: The author asks whether insecurities and past issues are to blame for the way women self-sabotage in relationships. She says they aren't, and the real cause of this tendency is the way women are conditioned to be ready for failure. I think that's absolute BS because: - insecurity, past issues, and low self-esteem actually are the reasons why people self-sabotage -- a person with healthy self-esteem isn't going to think, "He actually likes me - there must be some kind of catch! It's too good to be true! Who could possibly like me?" A person who's secure isn't going to be thinking, "Oh jeez, what if this? What if that? What if what if what if?" and they're not going to be tearing their hair out and searching for any possible problem. - "women have been conditioned..." -- she asserts this without arguing for it or providing any evidence. Are men not taught to be prepared for problems? Are men not taught to worry about the future? Are men not taught to be one step ahead and prepared for what may come? - learning to be prepared for potential problems doesn't automatically result in the paralyzing fear of anything that might be good and the permanent paranoid suspicions of "there must be something wrong, something's wrong, it can't be that everything is fine" We should all be able to admit that these "societal" influences push men and women to act and think in certain ways. This author is using that as a premise for the article, and though she doesn't back it up... I don't think she is wrong in making that assumption. So you agree that women are conditioned to fear failure to the point where they can't enjoy anything? Do you think men are taught to worry about the future and be one step ahead in case something goes wrong? Or are they taught to enjoy the present and not worry about the future? The bottom line is that the basis of self-sabotaging behavior is insecurity and low self-esteem. People who are secure and sure of themselves aren't so afraid of what could possibly go wrong that they paralyze themselves and make themselves incapable of enjoying a good thing. People who are secure don't fixate on what's wrong and on every possible little thing that could maybe somehow perhaps sometime go wrong.
zengirl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 every time I start to think maybe women are not so bad and maybe I am the one with the problem I see something or read something that proves me right. If you want to see horrible things in the world, there are plenty of horrors to see. If you want to see good things in the world, you will see good things. The only person you're hurting is yourself, really, and you're the one causing all your suffering. Mistrusting an entire gender isn't smart or healthy. It's ironic that you'd post in this thread, about the problems women have, when your mistrust is actually rather similar and another way you're blocking blessings, just as the author describes. Way to illustrate that both genders can block blessings.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 That's part of it. I'll try to summarize: The author asks whether insecurities and past issues are to blame for the way women self-sabotage in relationships. She says they aren't, and the real cause of this tendency is the way women are conditioned to be ready for failure. I think that's absolute BS because: - insecurity, past issues, and low self-esteem actually are the reasons why people self-sabotage -- a person with healthy self-esteem isn't going to think, "He actually likes me - there must be some kind of catch! It's too good to be true! Who could possibly like me?" A person who's secure isn't going to be thinking, "Oh jeez, what if this? What if that? What if what if what if?" and they're not going to be tearing their hair out and searching for any possible problem. The article is about these women who search for faults in their men... not themselves. Wouldn't it make more sense that this issue be caused by women expecting unrealistic things from their men rather than women feeling insecure? It makes much more sense to me that these women are searching for faults constantly in the hope that they can fix their men/relationship and make it "perfect". Yet in doing that they fail to enjoy the positives. So you agree that women are conditioned to fear failure to the point where they can't enjoy anything? Do you think men are taught to worry about the future and be one step ahead in case something goes wrong? Or are they taught to enjoy the present and not worry about the future? The bottom line is that the basis of self-sabotaging behavior is insecurity and low self-esteem. People who are secure and sure of themselves aren't so afraid of what could possibly go wrong that they paralyze themselves and make themselves incapable of enjoying a good thing. People who are secure don't fixate on what's wrong and on every possible little thing that could maybe somehow perhaps sometime go wrong. List off the things that are expected of women in a relationship. Yup... it's a really short list. Most expectations placed on women are about motherhood. Now think of the typical list required of men in a relationship... yeah... it's nearly endless. I don't believe that your correct in your assumption that it is insecurity which is driving this type of thinking. Otherwise they would be paralyzed by finding problems within themselves... not within their men. I am fairly sure this is caused by crazy high expectations for their relationships. Perhaps driven by the idea that having the perfect relationship will make them happy.
zengirl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 The article specifically says that her worrying and blessing-blocking isn't exclusive to relationships. It uses that as an example, but states quite clearly, it wasn't the only aspect of her life she did that in. Also, she wasn't picking at aspects of her guy -- she was worrying, "Don't worry, he'll make you cry" soon enough, worrying about when the relationship would go sour, not picking at how unsuccessful, unattractive, etc, he was. To me, those are different issues from people being too picky in dating (admittedly, an issue all its own -- not confined to either gender).
alyssatranswarrior Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 And I think there's nothing wrong with trying to defend your gender from negative stereotypes. If someone is stating something that is wrong about your gender, then you should definitely argue with it. The point is in many women (not all), these are "realistic" stereotypes. The women are sabotaging things with men they felt they always wanted, and insecurities make them ruin those relationships and settle into bad ones with worse men who they feel like they should be with, because its not a rosy type of unearned happiness they get with them. It's not stating something wrong in the female gender, its pointing out a prospect of change for those women who block their own happiness. Perfectly valid. "this is what happens with women who block their blessings, this is why it happens, now you know and can understand why you end up alone and can't understand why" So, enchantedgirl, you don't share those females perspectives or experiences and don't see it as truism. FINE. Move on then, you are not obliged to crusade under a female banner and invalidate other women with your opinion over and over. We get it, you aren't that girl. It's OK.
wierdmunky Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 wow. way to delineate an inspirational story. i thought it was just a cute anecdotal aimed for women who might have this problem. so either no one does, or everyone is blocking the blessings
Enchanted Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 The point is in many women (not all), these are "realistic" stereotypes. The women are sabotaging things with men they felt they always wanted, and insecurities make them ruin those relationships and settle into bad ones with worse men who they feel like they should be with, because its not a rosy type of unearned happiness they get with them. It's not stating something wrong in the female gender, its pointing out a prospect of change for those women who block their own happiness. Perfectly valid. "this is what happens with women who block their blessings, this is why it happens, now you know and can understand why you end up alone and can't understand why" So, enchantedgirl, you don't share those females perspectives or experiences and don't see it as truism. FINE. Move on then, you are not obliged to crusade under a female banner and invalidate other women with your opinion over and over. We get it, you aren't that girl. It's OK. If you read my posts, I never said that women don't exist like that. The whole argument has been about the fact that supposedly men don't exist who are like that, too. Both do and although I keep getting told that I'm not accepting blame and not admitting that women can possibly have this fault, I have admitted it several times. On the other hand, the people I was arguing with were having trouble with the idea that men could possibly have this fault, too. And also, a stereotype is something assigned to a group of people as a whole. I am welcome to argue that stereotypes are wrong when they are wrong and when I think they do not even apply to the majority. I did nothing that you said.
sweetjasmine Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 The women are sabotaging things with men they felt they always wanted, and insecurities make them ruin those relationships and settle into bad ones with worse men who they feel like they should be with, because its not a rosy type of unearned happiness they get with them. And right here you say something the author would disagree with: according to her, it's not their insecurities that make them ruin relationships. It's the way they've been conditioned to prepare for any possible problem. Do you agree with that? That's one of the major points I take issue with in the article. Is no one else reading it closely? Are you guys just skimming it and filling in the blanks with what you think she said?
CuriousQDe Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 The article hit me like a ton of bricks. It describes me to a tee. I opened it up on cnn.com, and the funny thing is that in the window next to the article were my word and excel spreadsheet that I am keeping on the guy I am dating I keep notes on everything and do as extensive search as possible on everything. My logic is I want to remember everything we talk about and make an informed decision about the future of the relationship. But the inner me is making sure I am able to catch him in a lie. I mean I cross-reference my blog entries with emails to everything he says and everything I can find on the Internet about him, his children, parents, siblings everyone he's mentioned to me before. I'm that serious a spy. And the thing is, he is a wonderful man, and I have delightful dates with him. I am going to stop this.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 The article hit me like a ton of bricks. It describes me to a tee. I opened it up on cnn.com, and the funny thing is that in the window next to the article were my word and excel spreadsheet that I am keeping on the guy I am dating I keep notes on everything and do as extensive search as possible on everything. My logic is I want to remember everything we talk about and make an informed decision about the future of the relationship. But the inner me is making sure I am able to catch him in a lie. I mean I cross-reference my blog entries with emails to everything he says and everything I can find on the Internet about him, his children, parents, siblings everyone he's mentioned to me before. I'm that serious a spy. And the thing is, he is a wonderful man, and I have delightful dates with him. I am going to stop this. I really hope this whole post is sarcastic.
CuriousQDe Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I really hope this whole post is sarcastic. Nope. I really wish it were. People tell me I'm crazy, but when you've walked in my shoes, as in the last year of my marriage, you would understand.
jamesum Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 I feel sorry for women. They are so insecure that it is hard to imagine. This is the year 2010 and we are not living in Afghanistan where your family will marry you off at 15 to a 60 year old man and you cant get out of it forever. If you distrust men then stop dating. I have an aunt whose father was abusive to his family that her mother died because of it. She is now 30-something and she has only ever dated once in her life. She said her past makes her distrust men. She doesnt hate men but she feels that she is better off by herself without relying on anyone. I say kudos to her. Why be with someone if you cannot trust him? Why not just be by yourself?
Enchanted Girl Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 Nope. I really wish it were. People tell me I'm crazy, but when you've walked in my shoes, as in the last year of my marriage, you would understand. It's good you recognized this and are trying to change it. It sounds like you're afraid to trust and be vulnerable again. Some people let these feelings consume their lives, but if you fight it, then you will be much more likely to develop healthy relationships someday.
Stung Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 So, all women hate women, but their hate for women is only eclipsed by their hatred for men. I get it. I was wondering why I was so angry all the time. Your period probably also has something to do with it.
torranceshipman Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 Eeyore?! Speak for yourself woman As for me, no 'blocked blessings'...I complained about a guy when he deserved the complaints. And my friends and I - after a few glasses of wine - didn't act like you said - we'd move on to talking about a lot of stuff - friends, work, politics, jokes, loads of stuff. The thing is, you are not blocking your blessings when you have high standards and won't compromize on what you want. I didn't compromize, so now, the amazing incredible guy that I always dreamt of is my fiance :D If I'd compromized like half the world told me ('oh you are too picky', 'why are you always single' etc-as if there is something wrong with being single)...then I'd be with the wrong guy. As far as I can see, you should never compromize your standards - don't settle - and ignore someone who assumes that all you have to talk about is men.
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