What next

[tojaz]

From the Marriage forum.....

Well that was fun. What a complete disaster. Dinner went along fine, well in so much as she was her usual cold, emotionless b__ch. We finally reached a point in the dinner where I told her that I still felt very strongly for her, perhaps a mistake.

 

Anyway, she shut down completely, went inside herself. We ended the dinner and I told her I'd walk home. We came home and conversation got worse from there.

 

Our marriage is finished. We're done. It's honesly good to have it finally over.

 

I'm ready to move on.

 

Tonight we had our "date" as suggested by MC. What a disaster. Check out the marriage forum for more on that.

 

I've hit the end of my rope, I told her so. I'm done.

 

I want out of this marriage once and for all. I'll begin the process on Monday.

 

That's it.

 

Not a lot of detail there W_N, and I see you've swung back to the othe extreme. Not much to give you without the rest of the story, but it sounds like you both let the "date" turn into just another time to get at each other, just in another location.

 

If you are truly done, then so be it, but please don't rush to action based on one lousy experience. At least Report back to the MC so you both can disect the date and see what clues are lying there.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, the date itself went well up until near the end. Then it went to ____. It only got worse when we came home.

 

Some of the things we said last night were very hurtful to each other. Some of them actually needed to be said though.

 

We both agreed this morning to stop the hurt. I'm not sure how we will make out in the end but we are going to try to put the past in the past, while at least making some attempt to deal with it. In addition we'll look forward.

 

Our next MC is tomorrow night. We both are commited to going.

 

For now, I will have some patience. She came to me and that was a huge step for her. I will sit back and take it easy for a while now.

[tojaz]

Well, simple advice thats hard to follow. Call Timeout!

Nothing productive is going to come from being hurtful and in fact drives a much bigger wedge between you. A great help would be to be able to recognize when communication is breaking down and emotion is taking over, and that is the time to stop. Avoids doing more damage.

 

Good luck tomorrow in MC

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, I have been practicing that as much as possible. Today was a very good day. She was warm, and receptive. I kept the conversation light and did not push anything.

 

She works an early shift every second week and she is out of the house by 5:00am and is home early, but normally by 9:00pm she is ready for bed and we get to spend ZERO time together. I told her I would check with my boss and over the summer months I'd go to work an hour early and leave an hour early. We will get a little more time with each other that way.

 

I put back on my wedding ring today and told her that I was doing that. I am hoping she puts hers back on as well, but I'll understand if she doesn't. I think it was hurtful for us both to take them off in the first place and we used them as sort of "weapons of exit". No more of that silliness on either of our sides.

 

I am looking forward to MC tomorrow night, but if it doesn't go the way I hope I will also not overreact. I will be calm cool and collected. I certainly hope we make forward progress.

 

We'll see. I'm still living in the basement for now and I am OK with that for the time being.

[tojaz]

Keep this post and how you felt when you wrote it in mind and read it often.........

Tojaz, I have been practicing that as much as possible. Today was a very good day. She was warm, and receptive. I kept the conversation light and did not push anything.

 

She works an early shift every second week and she is out of the house by 5:00am and is home early, but normally by 9:00pm she is ready for bed and we get to spend ZERO time together. I told her I would check with my boss and over the summer months I'd go to work an hour early and leave an hour early. We will get a little more time with each other that way.

 

I put back on my wedding ring today and told her that I was doing that. I am hoping she puts hers back on as well, but I'll understand if she doesn't. I think it was hurtful for us both to take them off in the first place and we used them as sort of "weapons of exit". No more of that silliness on either of our sides.

 

I am looking forward to MC tomorrow night, but if it doesn't go the way I hope I will also not overreact. I will be calm cool and collected. I certainly hope we make forward progress.

 

We'll see. I'm still living in the basement for now and I am OK with that for the time being.

 

...... when your feeling like writing posts like this! >>>>

 

Tonight we had our "date" as suggested by MC. What a disaster. Check out the marriage forum for more on that.

 

I've hit the end of my rope, I told her so. I'm done.

 

I want out of this marriage once and for all. I'll begin the process on Monday.

 

That's it.

 

Because every time you feel like giving up, its going to make it easier for her to do the same, and it doesn't sound like thats what either of you wants in your hearts, just waiting for your heads to catch up. You have the benefit of seeing this though as she is still blinded by the cloud of emotion, anger and resentment. So unfortunately its going to fall on your shoulders to keep the cool head and keep things on track. Love her like hell on the good days like today, and on the bad days your going to have to love her enough to take the emotional jabs without firing back.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, sage advice there. In fact only about 5 minutes ago I was talking to myself (it's a new habit..) and I said

 

"Remember what she gave you this morning and love her for it".

 

I will take your advice to heart. There will be future setbacks I am sure, but it's up to me to figure out how to deal with them.

 

You are right we both want this to succeed, we FINALLY admitted that to each other this morning. Like you said we just have to wait for our heads to catch up.

[tojaz]

Beautiful man!!! I'm pulling for you! Give us an update after MC tomorrow. Hopefully things flow better with a little more understanding.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

I am hopeful that the MC will be better tonight. It was a tough morning again waking up once again by myself. I had to fight back feelings that would only cause trouble if I let them sit in my head.

 

I did, and now I am here at work. It was a good day yesterday.

[What_Next]

I'm back... Tonight's MC was interesting. Not all that positive for me but I'm getting used to it. The MC was going to give us "homework" but we had already been doing it. Setting aside "us" time, learning to express ourselves, finding the time to communicate etc. He applauded our attempt at the date. He gave us a different take on it.

 

We decided to schedule the next session for 2 weeks from now. I may actually set one for this coming Monday.

 

One of the last things we discussed was that we have been sleeping seperately. He asked that I talk to my wife about the feelings that I have about it. That was a tough task.

 

When the MC session was over I drew very quiet and my wife knew I was upset. The main reason was that I just didn't know how to put my feelings into words without stepping backward.

 

I took a breather when we came home for a few minutes (collected my inner Gunny/Tojaz) but then went upstairs and did just what I should have. Calmly laid out my feelings about sleeping seperately. We almost went sideways but didn't. In the end I gave my wife some suggestions, such as taking it slow, but coming downstairs once in a while or at least trying to reach out to me. She gave her usual "I don't know". It WAS sinking in.

 

I went out on my longest bike ride to date (about 8 miles at least) and thought a little. Just to be calm actually. When I came home I was still a little upset, but I showered and remained calm. I came upstairs again, (I was going to wait for her to come to me, but decided to go up and sit on the couch). Well just before her bedtime she came to me, we briefly kissed (a grandma kiss) and we held each other. One comment she made was that this feels comfortable. My heart sang, but I did not let on too much. We held each for a few more minutes and I sort of whispered sweeet nothings to her.

 

We parted and she went to bed. I am going to be sure to tell her that it made my night that much more easier tomorrow night when we talk. I'll be sure to re-assure her.

 

I find the time right after MC to be hard. My emotions are all over the place and my wife has wanted to "talk". One of the things the MC said was to find the right time to talk, I'll let her know for me that time isn't it.

 

All in all a good day. I am sure there will be ups and downs on a daily basis, but one of the last things I told her while hugging her was that we could get through this, she nodded.

 

My inner Tojaz and my inner Gunny saved me tonight, thanks to you BOTH! You ROCK

[What_Next]

A day later and nothing much has changed. I was home from work today, I just couldn't sleep and would have been a zombie. When she came home from work we talked again. It was a little difficult since she kept saying that "she was not ready" for me to sleep in the same room.

 

I had already told her that I would not wait forever, I am a man, with needs and I won't put my life on hold too long. That did upset her a little.

 

We ended the conversation with not much solved, but at least we are talking. I decided to change up the booking for the MC to this coming Monday. We both agreed that we would be honest and tell him that we need to get a little "more" from the sessions. Up to this point they have not helped all that much and at 150 per session that starts to wear on us.

 

We've decided to continue what we are doing, talking and re-connecting. We will continue to try and spend a little "us" time, maybe just lieing on the couch, holding each other. To reconnect on a physical level. I'm good with that.

 

It's very hard still sleeping downstairs, but it'll have to be what it is for now. If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears on that matter.

 

We have realized that as it stands now most of what we have accomplished has little to do with MC. We'll continue it for a few more sessions, but that's it.

 

Thoughts?

[tojaz]

My inner Tojaz and my inner Gunny saved me tonight, thanks to you BOTH! You ROCK

 

Thats a huge compliment W_N thank you!

 

A day later and nothing much has changed. I was home from work today, I just couldn't sleep and would have been a zombie. When she came home from work we talked again. It was a little difficult since she kept saying that "she was not ready" for me to sleep in the same room.

 

I had already told her that I would not wait forever, I am a man, with needs and I won't put my life on hold too long. That did upset her a little.

 

We ended the conversation with not much solved, but at least we are talking. I decided to change up the booking for the MC to this coming Monday. We both agreed that we would be honest and tell him that we need to get a little "more" from the sessions. Up to this point they have not helped all that much and at 150 per session that starts to wear on us.

 

We've decided to continue what we are doing, talking and re-connecting. We will continue to try and spend a little "us" time, maybe just lieing on the couch, holding each other. To reconnect on a physical level. I'm good with that.

 

It's very hard still sleeping downstairs, but it'll have to be what it is for now. If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears on that matter.

 

We have realized that as it stands now most of what we have accomplished has little to do with MC. We'll continue it for a few more sessions, but that's it.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think your doing quite well What_Next, I would suggest slowing down on the pressure of sharing the room again. It will mean much more to you if you are invited, and it will be real. I speak from experience! I had those same feelings, missing that connection and spoke on them. She appeased me, but it did little good, because it wasn't like I remember, like holding a stranger, or a cold fish. I felt much worse because not only was what i was seeking not there, but it was another instance of me pressuring her. I felt quite guilty. Your trying to save a lifetime... doing time in the basement will be worth that in the long run.

 

As for MC, I am a strong supporter, but i also know it isn't cheap and you have referenced your financials on that topic. MC is valuable in many ways, not the least of which is having an unbiased mediator. I would continue if you are able to. Many counselors are willing to negotiate if you are on hard times, my IC was able to reduce her rates to something I could still afford when I lost my insurance. Doesn't hurt to ask.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Thats a huge compliment W_N thank you!

 

Hey it's deserved Tojaz, LS and you in particular have been a great help to me, sort of an open air MC session.

 

Your trying to save a lifetime... doing time in the basement will be worth that in the long run.

 

Funny you should say that. When I spoke to her yesterday and let her know my feelings on staying down here I told her that I have become to treat this place like a jail cell. I told her I felt like a convict serving time. She didn't quite understand it, but in my own way it does help me get through the nights.

 

As for relaxing on the pressure, that's easy enough. I just let her know that this is not HER choice alone. Even when she decides that she wants me to sleep in the same room as her I might not say yes. That's just the reality. The lack of sex (about 2 months now) is bothering the hell out of me, but I'll have to learn how to accept that for now, only for now.

 

As for MC, I am a strong supporter, but i also know it isn't cheap and you have referenced your financials on that topic. MC is valuable in many ways, not the least of which is having an unbiased mediator.

 

Well in all honesty we are not getting much out of it. So far it has cost us $450 and we really haven't learned anything we could not have on our own. We are going to tell the MC that on Monday night as well. My wife has FINALLY admitted to wanting IC so we'll continue down the MC route for a little while, but then we'll let her do the IC.

 

Today was a good day, she came down to say goodnight and gave me a grandma kiss, but held it longer this time. She told me she was going to bed early and I let her know it was fine by me, I had my ride to do and other things. I then went out and rode really hard again for 90 minutes.

 

She's still not wearing her wedding rings and that annoys me (I had taken mine off for a while but put them back on) but I'll not let on about that.

[tojaz]

Funny you should say that. When I spoke to her yesterday and let her know my feelings on staying down here I told her that I have become to treat this place like a jail cell. I told her I felt like a convict serving time. She didn't quite understand it, but in my own way it does help me get through the nights.

 

As for relaxing on the pressure, that's easy enough. I just let her know that this is not HER choice alone. Even when she decides that she wants me to sleep in the same room as her I might not say yes. That's just the reality. The lack of sex (about 2 months now) is bothering the hell out of me, but I'll have to learn how to accept that for now, only for now.

 

Thats a good way to look at it W_N and your right, shes not holding all the cards either. Just remember that doing anything negative is going to be counter productive. You have to keep in mind that you cannot do anything that will reinforce her negative opinions, and thats not in your eyes, but in hers. Something im sure you would want to do anyway, except know the perception is skewed.

 

You will live without the sex, there are some of us who have gone much, much longer

 

 

 

Well in all honesty we are not getting much out of it. So far it has cost us $450 and we really haven't learned anything we could not have on our own. We are going to tell the MC that on Monday night as well. My wife has FINALLY admitted to wanting IC so we'll continue down the MC route for a little while, but then we'll let her do the IC.

Today was a good day, she came down to say goodnight and gave me a grandma kiss, but held it longer this time. She told me she was going to bed early and I let her know it was fine by me, I had my ride to do and other things. I then went out and rode really hard again for 90 minutes.

 

She's still not wearing her wedding rings and that annoys me (I had taken mine off for a while but put them back on) but I'll not let on about that.

 

MC takes time. The first several sessions are usually an effort to get to know you both and your troubles and are usually just open talk without much more interference. Definitely tell your counselor if your ready for more or if there is something particular you want to work on.

 

Congrats on the good day. Keep in mind what he perspective must be like, what was a small step for you would have been terrifying and hard on her, be sure to thank her for the effort shes putting in, and let her know it makes you feel good to see her try.

 

Keep your ring on! Your married. Sends a clear message to her that you havent given up on her. My ex took hers off the day she refused to participate in MC (in the counselors office!) I kept mine on for months later even though she wasn't there to see it. I can still remember the day I put it away (July 3 but thats another story).

 

Side note on the rings, have you seen "Fireproof"?

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

I haven't seen fireproof Tojaz but I will watch it.

 

I am at home again today, my second day away from work. I just needed a few days to get my head back together.

 

I will take your advice Tojaz. Thanks.

[trippi1432]

WhatNext - you can go to YouTube and put in Fireproof....all of the episodes are right there but you have to watch them as part 1, part 2 and so on...., so you could watch it today while you are home.

 

Just a suggestion.

[What_Next]

Trippi1432, I found the film and have a copy now. I am going to suggest to my wife that we watch it together.

 

Another twist today, my wife called me today around lunch time (we have been doing that for a few weeks now) and the conversation largely surrounded a mutual friend and a facebook posting. My wife uses facebook; I don't. She asked when I would be home and I let her know I was already home as I could not sleep and had nightmares last night.

 

She ended the conversation with "I love you". I am not sure if it was an old habit (well I KNOW it wasn't a habit since we had rarely said that to each other in a long time), or what she meant by it. Perhaps nothing.

 

In either case it's a welcome thing to hear.

 

I will continue what I am doing and we will continue what we are doing.

[tojaz]

I would watch it yourself first What_Next, then if you think it might help, suggest you watch it with your wife.

 

Congrats on the I love you! Bet that felt good.

 

Keep it up!!!!!

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

My wife and I watched the first half of Fireproof on the couch tonight. She was half asleep as she usually is. It was OK. I am expecting the second half to play out a little better.

 

Another day in my jail sentence I suppose.

[What_Next]

This morning I was still thinking about this film. I decided to do some research and there is a wealth of it out there considering this Love Dare. It intrigued me.

 

For example here is a new blog by a couple that are going through it together:

 

http://40daylovedare.blogspot.com/

 

I have decided to give this a try. My wife knows about it as well. I don't pretend to think that this is a 40 day magic bullet, but I do think it might help along the way.

[hurt and devastated]

I spoke with someone on another forum that saved his marriage by following that book. I was actually planning to get it this past Sunday and start using it.

[What_Next]

H_A_D, I definitely suggest you look into it. I will be starting it. Likely on Monday. I did want my wife to at least know about it so she might make sense of my behavior.

 

Each day is up and down, here is an excerpt from an email between my wife and I. This is going to be a very hard time for us. I think if we both commit to the process we can succeed.

 

First her response to me:

 

Sorry ____. Im just not having a good day

 

It is great chatting again for sure whether its email..phone person or text. I guess Im trying to process in my own mind why we stopped. Its hard ..some of the thoughts you now?

 

My response to her:

 

I had asked how your day was going a few times, I had thought it was going well. I guess I still need to learn your signals.

 

I’m not sure we will ever necessarily pinpoint why we stopped. It’s easy to look backward all of the time, but I suggest you don’t do that. Reflection is an exercise that is valuable, but not when it is all consuming. Try and focus on what we are doing now, and what we can continue to do. This isn’t easy, and won’t be, but as long as we continue to talk to each other we can continue to move forward. We have to continue to work hard at ensuring there is no more hurtful behavior. We have to continue to work hard to ensure we learn from our PAST mistakes and build a future. You are starting to go through changes and I can see them. It’s difficult to face, but with our friendship and companionship as a building block you will learn to accept the change.

 

Just know that I am here to support you and go through this journey with you.

 

I hope my phone call helped. It certainly helped me, the sound of your voice right now is one of the sweetest sounds I can hear (well maybe besides you screaming my name…).

 

I’ll see you in a few hours.

[hurt and devastated]

Not trying to hijack your thread here, but is it something that would be effective even though we're living apart now? I read a little excerpt online and know about the "tasks" the book gives you to do every day. If there might be any benefit to it I'm all for trying it.

[What_Next]

I have not gotten into all the tasks yet, but living apart might make some of them difficult. I know there is a forum on the website

 

http://www.lovedarestories.com

 

You might want to enquire there.

[tojaz]

Not trying to hijack your thread here, but is it something that would be effective even though we're living apart now? I read a little excerpt online and know about the "tasks" the book gives you to do every day. If there might be any benefit to it I'm all for trying it.

 

H-a-D There is a lot to learn from the love dare, and a lot that yo can do on your own. I didn't come across Fireproof until after my divorce, but still bought the book after seeing it. (discussed my experience here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t205459/ ) The book is not just about winning your spouse back from the brink of divorce, but about finding ways to be more in tune, more receptive and at times more tolerant. A good lesson for anyone in any relationship. I would definitely give it a look, what have you got to lose other then the price of the book?

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

H_A_D, I definitely suggest you look into it. I will be starting it. Likely on Monday. I did want my wife to at least know about it so she might make sense of my behavior.

 

Each day is up and down, here is an excerpt from an email between my wife and I. This is going to be a very hard time for us. I think if we both commit to the process we can succeed.

 

First her response to me:

 

Sorry ____. Im just not having a good day

 

It is great chatting again for sure whether its email..phone person or text. I guess Im trying to process in my own mind why we stopped. Its hard ..some of the thoughts you now?

 

My response to her:

 

I had asked how your day was going a few times, I had thought it was going well. I guess I still need to learn your signals.

 

I’m not sure we will ever necessarily pinpoint why we stopped. It’s easy to look backward all of the time, but I suggest you don’t do that. Reflection is an exercise that is valuable, but not when it is all consuming. Try and focus on what we are doing now, and what we can continue to do. This isn’t easy, and won’t be, but as long as we continue to talk to each other we can continue to move forward. We have to continue to work hard at ensuring there is no more hurtful behavior. We have to continue to work hard to ensure we learn from our PAST mistakes and build a future. You are starting to go through changes and I can see them. It’s difficult to face, but with our friendship and companionship as a building block you will learn to accept the change.

 

Just know that I am here to support you and go through this journey with you.

 

I hope my phone call helped. It certainly helped me, the sound of your voice right now is one of the sweetest sounds I can hear (well maybe besides you screaming my name…).

 

I’ll see you in a few hours.

 

Very well written response W_N. Couldn't have written it better myself.

 

TOJAZ