He finally sent the email breaking NC after 13 weeks

[GrayClouds]

This is a drive-by response.

 

 

 

This can apply to a group but not necessarily to an individual.

 

What you are saying here is the old "people never change" BS. Do/can individuals learn, grow and better themselves? Yes. Just look in the mirror, I suspect you believe you are capable of learning and changing, why can't he?

 

I am not saying he or anyone else can not change. But change is active, action oriented, illustrated by new behaviors. For change to happen it requires an understanding why past pattern of behavior were developed, then mindful effort to learn new behavior that our more productive. It requires an understanding of what those behavior biases are, why they historically been used, when these behavior biases are unproductive, and when it is better to use new, less comfortable but more productive behaviors.

 

Only way to determined in a transformation has accrued through evaluating if a person is exhibiting new behavior compared to past, and show constancy with those new behaviors.

 

In this case there has been no sign that any self discovery work has occurred, in fact it appear that he is exhibition the same unproductive behavior that caused him to leave the relationship.

 

His feeling emasculated was the result of his giving up control for comfort. He aligned himself with a strong woman and then blames her for feeling weak.

 

This is a man that walk away from a person who he still clams to love, because it was easier then working on the relationship. Now he communicates he see only her issues and with no personal self discovery. Again he is looking for her to solve his problems rather then saying "these are I the things I have to do to make this relationship better for me", then letting her decide if that works or does not work for her. He wants her to do all the heavy lifting. And it CNCYG nature to want to do the heavy lifting, but at some point he will get angry again because she did.

 

He has not communicated in any way that he sees his passiveness as a contributing factor to his unhappiness. He choose to blame her and the relationship for it. He is expecting his partner to elevated his feeling of inadequacy, rather then looking inside himself and seeing the need for growth.

 

So I not saying he can not change, I am saying he has not illustrated any, and at worst, show a continuation of the same unproductive behavior that initiated the break-up.

Edited March 23, 2010 by GrayClouds

[Pink Cupcakes]

Oh, honey, he's just not that into you anymore. He tells you that you're unattractive, then takes it back.

He told you back in December he sees this as an unsalvageable relationship and compares you to his mother, who he doesn't get along with at all.

Move on.

He wants out in a big way but is afraid to hurt your feelings since you have such a history. He even had his friend help him compose a letter which should just be between you and him. This isn't showing a guy who really loves you, it's showing a guy who absolutely wants to be done with you.

Time to cut all contact.

[Pink Cupcakes]

Oh wow, I just read your post from Dec. 5th.

The deal is he is not attracted or interested in you romantically anymore but is keeping you on the line in case you are needed to financially support him again.

He has been getting by in the meantime financially, but realizes that this may not be the case, so he always has CuriousNYgirl to keep on the line and "get back together with" when he needs financial support.

This guy isn't for you.

He is stringing you along.

Cut all contact and don't let him back in so you can continue to be his sugar momma.

[curiousnycgirl]

Grayclouds you have nailed all of my fears and concerns in one eloquent post.

 

When he first got back in touch he said that he has figured out that his issue was not anger, nor feeling emasculated but rather frustration. To tell you the truth I'm not buying it.

 

I have been holding back and just responding to his notes, ending each one with a question such as what now, in the hope that he would step up on offer a suggestion, anything. But he has not. And now he has finally written that he has no clue - deep heavy sigh. At least I now know that I was not the sole cause of our going down that path!

 

It also took until this last note from him to realize that the first note he sent, which I felt was nothing more than a listing of issues he had with me, was actually his attempt at reconciliation. He thought that providing constructive critism would somehow win me back.

 

I have told him, in writing, that I am not going back to how things were. I will speak to him tonight (he texted back saying he hadn't heard the phone, it was late could we speak tonight) - and see what he has to say. I am not slamming the door, nor am I running to him with open arms.

 

It took a heck of a lot for him to push me so far that I ended it, it's going to take a heck of a lot to get me to trust again.

[curiousnycgirl]

PinkCupcakes I appreciate your concern and your input, but you've gotten some of the facts backwards.

 

I compared him to my mother, who I do not get along with, I am the one who said I didn't know if the relationship was salvagable.

 

I'm not sure about his seeing me as a financial support. I've never paid his bills, only for all the extras we do together (which to tell the truth was not insignificant).

 

I apologize if my posts were not clear - I've been entirely mixed up and confused for the past few months.

[threebyfate]

What will it take to make you believe him?

[curiousnycgirl]

Great question TBF I think he will have to committ to something and actually do it. For example last year he said he would make sure we were together 4 nights a week - but it only lasted for 2 weeks.

 

Truth is only time will heal the wounds, but that time needs to be spent not tearing me to shreds as he was doing in the months leading up to december. It's really that simple. He needs to be nice to me - and I need to be nice to him.

 

Is that so hard?

[threebyfate]

Now you have your talking points. When he tries to accomplish this, will you also be nice back to him?

[curiousnycgirl]

Actually he would be the first to admit I was almost always nice to him. The few times I rose to the bait I walked away - I do NOT like behaving that way.

 

So the answer is yes.

[threebyfate]

I have to expand on my last post. Criticism goes two ways. One person starts the criticism and then, the drama ramps up as emotions get heated. Criticism gets less and less constructive and more geared towards notching off points.

 

So, where you two have to meet, is mid-point. He has to be more assertive/determined and you have to be less aggressive/emotional.

 

Now if he tries to be more assertive, will he be met with more aggression? If you try to be less aggressive, will you be met with his typical relationship laziness?

 

You two need to hammer this out.

 

But one thing's for certain. Any "proof" based relationship is doomed.

[curiousnycgirl]

We may very well be doomed. I trusted him unquestionably and he tore me to shreds. My history in such situations is to take a walk and almost never look back.

 

The only exception to that history is my parents - I walked away for 3 years (they literally had no idea if I was alive or dead) but came back for the benefit of my siblings. To this day my mother knows if she crosses the wrong line I am out of here. That is not a threat - I just cannot take the abuse she foisted on me for the first 2 decades of my life, and I will not stick around for any more of it.

 

The fact that I am even willing to try to reconcile is because I love him. However I am very hurt and very scared (of him hurting me again). It's really that simple. I do not intend to hold that over him, like most of my emotions I will probably say it once and then swallow it - however I cannot be expected to take that kind of verbal abuse for any length of time again. I just cannot do it.

 

I spent 5.5 years trying to meet or exceed his expecations. I spent all that time trying to give him things he wanted, even when he didn't know yet he wanted them. That is just the way I am and I do not regret what I did for him and I know I will do it again. However at this point I am ready to benefit from some reciprocity.

 

Even if there is no reciprocity - I cannot have him verbally tear me to shreds anymore. I may accept not getting as good as I give, but I will not accept being treated the way he did before. It's not fair to do to anyone.

[curiousnycgirl]

Out of curiousity the ball is still in his court to call right? Even though he text messaged me? I responded to his text - so he should be calling me right? I'm not trying to play tit for tat, just trying to understand

[Star Gazer]

CNYCG, I just wanted you to know that I am still here supporting you... I'm just reading, and not responding, because I don't feel like I have any extra words of wisdom that would help you without making you feel...heavy. TBF's doing a great job so far (but so is GC)... so all I can do is echo what they've said.

 

((HUG))

[threebyfate]

Yes, the ball is in his court. Let him meet you halfway.

 

You don't need to put up with abuse. Once again, it's part of your talking points. If he can withhold his criticisms, to the level of constructive criticisms, then it's all good. But there's no way that he can be expected to never criticize you.

 

Btw, so that you know, I feel we're similar personality types. Push, drive, react...NOW! Clear the air, resolve, then forget about it.

 

One thing we both have to be careful of, is this:

I spent 5.5 years trying to meet or exceed his expecations. I spent all that time trying to give him things he wanted, even when he didn't know yet he wanted them.

What we believe is "good for" someone else, might not be what they believe is "good for" them. It really is a component of languages of love.

[curiousnycgirl]

Yes, the ball is in his court. Let him meet you halfway..

 

that's all I ever wanted

 

You don't need to put up with abuse. Once again, it's part of your talking points. If he can withhold his criticisms, to the level of constructive criticisms, then it's all good. But there's no way that he can be expected to never criticize you.

 

I totally agree - I do not mind constructive criticism (although not as a way to win someone back - that one will forever puzzle me). I don't think I was clear enough with what pushed me to end it. He was HORRIBLY mean to me. People who first met us in those months could not understand why we were together since it was so obvious how much he disliked me. People who have known me for a long time were upset at how stresed and unhappy I was - it was really bad.

 

The straw that broke the provervial camel's back was one night when I finally asked what was going on and what was going to happen to us (and I SWEAR that is quoting myself) and he spent the next 20 minutes spewing such venom and hatred at me about how selfish I am and how stupid I am and how dare I buy him a game for Christmas 2 years ago, how dare I buy the bed I bought for my bedroom without consulting him, etc. etc. It was a tremendous slap in my face and a wake up call. I cried my eyes out and he just turned over and fell asleep. I realized then that he was harboring massive anger toward me and that there was nothing I could do to fix things.

 

 

One thing we both have to be careful of, is this:

 

What we believe is "good for" someone else, might not be what they believe is "good for" them. It really is a component of languages of love.

 

I agree - but that is my nature. Why can't I find someone who appreciates it?

[curiousnycgirl]

CNYCG, I just wanted you to know that I am still here supporting you... I'm just reading, and not responding, because I don't feel like I have any extra words of wisdom that would help you without making you feel...heavy. TBF's doing a great job so far (but so is GC)... so all I can do is echo what they've said.

 

((HUG))

 

Thanks Star I appreciate it and love you for it (among many other things of course!).

[GrayClouds]

Now you have your talking points. When he tries to accomplish this, will you also be nice back to him?

 

Talking points???????????????????????????????????

 

As this point words mean nothing, actions should the only point of reference. What has he done to grow from his issues? What has he done understand why he choose his behavior, what make him confident that he will not repeat his mistakes?

 

What actions, not some (semi) nice words, that shows he is committed to making the realtionship work?

 

 

CNYCG please read this whole thread, beside renewed hope (and its a killer) can tell me what makes you believe anything has change:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t212355/

 

5 years and he could not commit to living together, 13 weeks and he still can not define what he wants. You deserve better.

 

Here is one more to re-read

So you want a second chance?

Edited March 24, 2010 by GrayClouds

[threebyfate]

I totally agree - I do not mind constructive criticism (although not as a way to win someone back - that one will forever puzzle me). I don't think I was clear enough with what pushed me to end it. He was HORRIBLY mean to me. People who first met us in those months could not understand why we were together since it was so obvious how much he disliked me. People who have known me for a long time were upset at how stresed and unhappy I was - it was really bad.

 

The straw that broke the provervial camel's back was one night when I finally asked what was going on and what was going to happen to us (and I SWEAR that is quoting myself) and he spent the next 20 minutes spewing such venom and hatred at me about how selfish I am and how stupid I am and how dare I buy him a game for Christmas 2 years ago, how dare I buy the bed I bought for my bedroom without consulting him, etc. etc. It was a tremendous slap in my face and a wake up call. I cried my eyes out and he just turned over and fell asleep. I realized then that he was harboring massive anger toward me and that there was nothing I could do to fix things.

Okay, once again, these are talking points. He has to realize that here's your boundary and when he hits that boundary, there's a consequence to his actions.

 

Fear of loss affects how we react and assert our boundaries.

I agree - but that is my nature. Why can't I find someone who appreciates it?

Perhaps this is a balance. Finding someone who appreciates this but also, finding a way to pull back when someone doesn't want our help. We have to let people who want to do things, accomplish it their way. We also have to let people be who they want to be and realize that if they're not who we want them to be, to find someone who already "is" who we want and need, in our lives.

[GrayClouds]

I agree - but that is my nature. Why can't I find someone who appreciates it?

 

Because your holding on to someone who doesn't?

[curiousnycgirl]

Talking points???????????????????????????????????

 

As this point words mean nothing, actions should the only point of reference. What has he done to grow from his issues? What has he done understand why he choose his behavior, what make him confident that he will not repeat his mistakes?

 

What actions, not some (semi) nice words, that shows he is committed to making the realtionship work?

 

To be fair he cannot put anything into action before we talk, once we talk, then maybe we will give eachother a second chance.

 

 

CNYCG please read this whole thread, beside renewed hope (and its a killer) can tell me what makes you believe anything has change:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t212355/

 

5 years and he could not commit to living together, 13 weeks and he still can not define what he wants. You deserve better.

 

Thankfully I reread it, start to finish, and there was really nothing I had forgotten or glossed over. I agree He's not given me any of the very few things I have asked for - and truth be told, he still might not. Hopefully when we speak I will figure this out.

 

Here is one more to re-read

So you want a second chance?

 

Been doing 1-9 for the most part, although 9 is still shakey, I'm still better than I was 12/1. Nubers 10 through the end - we'll have to see, but everyone please pray for me!

[curiousnycgirl]

Okay, once again, these are talking points. He has to realize that here's your boundary and when he hits that boundary, there's a consequence to his actions.

 

Fear of loss affects how we react and assert our boundaries.

Perhaps this is a balance. Finding someone who appreciates this but also, finding a way to pull back when someone doesn't want our help. We have to let people who want to do things, accomplish it their way. We also have to let people be who they want to be and realize that if they're not who we want them to be, to find someone who already "is" who we want and need, in our lives.

 

All good points TBF - certainly stuff to think about. One would hope we can work on some of this together. If not then we won't be together regardless.

[curiousnycgirl]

Because your holding on to someone who doesn't?

 

Very well said. Perhaps this is my final attempt because I truly think it's worth it? Which may be very foolish, but I feel I have to give it a try.

[GrayClouds]

To be fair he cannot put anything into action before we talk, once we talk, then maybe we will give eachother a second chance.

 

BS! His first email after 3 months could have stated "I pick up a book that gave me some insight into my behavior, I decided to talk to someone to understand myself better. I work at understanding why I blamed my unhappiness on you and the realtionship and I made these changes since the break-up that has really given me confidence."

 

But no it was "here is some suggestion you can do to make me happier". He should be able to communicate his actions of the last 13 month that would allow him to deserve you.

[curiousnycgirl]

BS! His first email after 3 months could have stated "I pick up a book that gave me some insight into my behavior, I decided to talk to someone to understand myself better. I work at understanding why I blamed my unhappiness on you and the realtionship and I made these changes since the break-up that has really given me confidence."

 

But no it was "here is some suggestion you can do to make me happier". He should be able to communicate his actions of the last 13 month that would allow him to deserve you.

 

Really good points, I wish I could be as strong as you are, and I wish I could communicate as effectively.

[curiousnycgirl]

Yes, the ball is in his court. Let him meet you halfway.

 

Hmmmm guess he won't be calling tonight. It's 9:46 and no word. Yup actions speak louder than words, don't they?

 

Gee so glad we've all been agonizing over this - everyone but HIM apparently. UGH