Mystery Method, Mind of Mystery, PUA

[alphamale]

i agree with green

[Phateless]

I also respect your opinion and because of this, will read the above book, cover to cover.

 

Cosmo is crap. EOM.

 

lol. Thanks TBF, that's why I love you!

 

There are actually a surprising amount of women on the forums; many of them use game on men. What do you think of that?!

 

I wonder if many of the people ragging on PUA theory and techniques have actually read any of its canonical literature, etc., The Mystery Method.

 

I have my doubts. I've given the "Mystery Method" a read, and I can say in all honesty that it's just a frank discussion of human psychology aimed at helping men project themselves favorably and give women what they manifestly want in early courtship.

 

Nowhere does Mystery advocate dishonesty in dealing with women. In fact, he doesn't advocate trying to seduce women in the early stages of contact, even if the guy's objective is simply a roll in the hay. That's not just moralizing on his part, either. In the Mystery Method, "seduction" comes last, after basic attraction and personal comfort have already been established (and given that, I don't think Mystery's idea of "seduction" would be a match to the normal use of the word).

 

Basically, if you call the girl the next day and she's breathing ice cubes - you've failed the Mystery Method. Great "game" should leave everyone better off.

 

Now, there's no question that you can use Mystery's theory and techniques for evil. But that's true of any useful theory in psychology.

 

Most important (for me), the advice in the The Mystery Method parallels my own experiences. I've never had trouble talking to women or getting dates, and I recognized much of Mystery's advice in my dating behavior. Reading the book wasn't some sort of diabolical revelation. I came away with a greater consciousness of my "game," a useful vocabulary and set of concepts, and a sharpened view of human psychology.

 

You are DEAD-ON. In fact, one of the basic principles of PUA is "Always leave her better than you found her."

 

A truly evil person is probably going to do well with girls any ways and be what PUA reading material refers to as a natural. PUA material is truely aimed at men who are frustrated, you know the guy who can only get a gf by luck or never.

 

Yup. PUA principles aim to emulate those are naturally good with women and just don't know how to explain it. I have a guy friend who is excellent with women, but utterly USELESS when trying to explain to me how he does it.

[alphamale]

I have a guy friend who is excellent with women, but utterly USELESS when trying to explain to me how he does it.

if hes good looking he doesn't have to do much, trust me

[Phateless]

if hes good looking he doesn't have to do much, trust me

 

It's not looks alone. You would love for it be all about looks because then you could relax and think it's not your fault if you have trouble with women.

 

Sorry bro, sack up and take some ownership of your own fate.

 

I used to have NO luck with women and now I consider it a breeze. My looks didn't change much, but my attitude sure did.

[Trialbyfire]

lol. Thanks TBF, that's why I love you!

Back atcha' Phateless!

 

There are actually a surprising amount of women on the forums; many of them use game on men. What do you think of that?!

The gender doesn't matter to me. I also feel that the "dating rule book" or "why men love bitches" for women is crap. Games don't get you a viable relationship. PUA is to catch but the person inside is the one that defines a keeper or not.

 

The only self-help book I feel has even a tiny bit of substance, is "He's just not that into you". Realistically speaking, the text within the book is less meaningful, rather than the title of the book. Basic premise, if a guy does funky things, plays games, withdraws, etc., he's just not that into you. I sincerely don't find it erodes on my self-esteem to know that someone else isn't interested. Better that, than being strung along for an eternity, investing more and more as you go. What a waste of time and emotion.

[Phateless]

Back atcha' Phateless!

 

 

The gender doesn't matter to me. I also feel that the "dating rule book" or "why men love bitches" for women is crap. Games don't get you a viable relationship. PUA is to catch but the person inside is the one that defines a keeper or not.

 

The only self-help book I feel has even a tiny bit of substance, is "He's just not that into you". Realistically speaking, the text within the book is less meaningful, rather than the title of the book. Basic premise, if a guy does funky things, plays games, withdraws, etc., he's just not that into you. I sincerely don't find it erodes on my self-esteem to know that someone else isn't interested. Better that, than being strung along for an eternity, investing more and more as you go. What a waste of time and emotion.

 

I agree that RULES and WHY MEN LOVE BITCHES are both crap, but for different reasons. Those books advocate playing games to jockey for power and control, whereas PUA methodology is just to teach men how to get to know women.

 

If you read the "newbie journals" most guys are very overcome with emotion when they start making genuine connections with women. It's profound and inspiring.

 

There's also a show on VH1 called "The Pickup Artist," which is both entertaining and enlightening. This PUA stuff has profound and emotional meaning for a lot of men. Don't discount it.

[alphamale]

It's not looks alone.

i'm sorry...i should have said if hes good looking AND has a good personality

[sally4sara]

I just can't seen the sense in further promoting the concept that sleeping with anyone who responds to be something that makes a man a better man.

The guys who really need advise don't value themselves enough already to have the confidence to approach women as much as men who do have confidence.

So they are suppose to learn to value themselves more by focusing on bagging practical strangers who wouldn't know the first thing about why the guy is a valuable individual to begin with? I find that counterproductive. The deed that affirms him results in nothing more than high risk behavior. For him to continue learning he must practice; he can't really afford to invest in the one he already netted. On to the next person who will not get to know who he is beyond his penis size. Plus he gets to have that nagging voice in the back saying "she didn't like you because you were not being you; YOU are still a loser".

 

It isn't about what different people THINK the point is behind the books. What it really ends up being is seen on their forums.

And yeah, even without these books and forums you will find slimeballs in men and women of the dating scene. With a book tho, they can say "I was just following the program" and not reflect on the implications of their actions at all.

[alphamale]

these "methods" are hooey....it all comes down to chemistry, its either there or it is not. you can't create it out of thin air.

 

most of these books and tapes are bought by desperate guys who have no where else to turn

[Phateless]

I just can't seen the sense in further promoting the concept that sleeping with anyone who responds to be something that makes a man a better man.

The guys who really need advise don't value themselves enough already to have the confidence to approach women as much as men who do have confidence.

So they are suppose to learn to value themselves more by focusing on bagging practical strangers who wouldn't know the first thing about why the guy is a valuable individual to begin with? I find that counterproductive. The deed that affirms him results in nothing more than high risk behavior. For him to continue learning he must practice; he can't really afford to invest in the one he already netted. On to the next person who will not get to know who he is beyond his penis size. Plus he gets to have that nagging voice in the back saying "she didn't like you because you were not being you; YOU are still a loser".

 

It isn't about what different people THINK the point is behind the books. What it really ends up being is seen on their forums.

And yeah, even without these books and forums you will find slimeballs in men and women of the dating scene. With a book tho, they can say "I was just following the program" and not reflect on the implications of their actions at all.

 

Wrong. Guys gain confidence from finally knowing what to do. Some men, like myself, were born socially retarded. I just didn't understand the protocol.

 

Having a "map" of a social interaction helped me learn to be more likable. It really improved my life. Once you figure out how to relate to people better, you develop confidence because people like you for the real you, once they've had a chance to get to know you.

 

It's less about doing the RIGHT thing, and more about learning HOW NOT TO SCREW IT UP.

 

these "methods" are hooey....it all comes down to chemistry, its either there or it is not. you can't create it out of thin air.

 

most of these books and tapes are bought by desperate guys who have no where else to turn

 

Unless you've read up on it yourself, you are 100% UNQUALIFIED to make any claims to it's effectiveness, or to it's content.

[gypsy_nicky]

I've read the book(s). After seeing them pop up here in discussions.

 

I would agree with the excellent marketing. Strauss is a writer not an academic. The 'techniques' in the book to pick up women are mostly based on pop psych.

 

Strauss up until now is not out of the PUA game, he holds seminars and lectures.

 

I've met a PUA at work though he doesn't tell women. Told me its a numbers game(hit and miss too) and you could tell with this guy that his 'personality' is external not natural. Nice dude though.

[Vertex]

PUA is really just a statistical pushing for high numbers (i.e. more trials) and greater variance. You can either be a total creep and use PUA techniques for... well, misunderstood creepiness. Or you can understand WHY certain PUA techniques work the way they do and see if there's anything positive you can extract to help you out if you are otherwise clueless at approaching women.

[sally4sara]

Wrong.

 

Unless you've read up on it yourself, you are 100% UNQUALIFIED to make any claims to it's effectiveness, or to it's content.

 

I've read up on it and looked at their forums prior to speaking on the subject.

 

I am not talking about how YOU, as benevolently as you were already inclined to do, applied it to your life. I'm talking about the hundreds of people who have bought into it that weigh in on how THEY apply it to their lives. You are one person and while I'm sure other people may have handled it similarly, you are the minority. If you would like to assess the majority, go see their words and accounts of their actions on the book's forums.

This is a method of seeking power. Wishing to have more control over the outcome of our interactions is not automatically a bad thing. But all things intended to give one more power can be used to an ill end.

The bible has some nice stories and common sense advise yet 1000s of its followers wouldn't know a christian act if it invited them into their home and served them the last bits of food it owned.

These books are the same in that sense. And all the disclaimers the authors include don't change the fact that it is usually used for ill intent.

[TheWatcher]

one of my best friends since high school is a guy. he has always been kinda shy. he's good-looking, smart, and successful, but for years he just didn't know how to approach girls. he would say weird or awkward things to them, or the conversation would fall flat. he'd ask my friends and me for advice, but it didn't seem to help much. when he was about 26 he starting reading about NLP. from there he began reading about PUA. he actually started attending meetup groups to learn more about it. he got really good at talking to girls. it was crazy to see this sorta shy guy who had had sex with like 6 girls in his life hooking up left and right. i mean, we were amazed.

 

I suspect your friend wasn't all that shy or awkward around women...If so how was he able to have sex with 6 women ? Also, you make it

seem like 6 is such a low number.

 

Also, the PUA techniques no matter how closely followed will not work for some men.There are some guys (*ahem*) who are so awkward

shy & lacking in self-confidence that they will never be successful with women.These are the same guys people will assume are gay because they're never seen with a woman and have never been known to have a girlfriend.

 

If you have no rapport with women,poor conversational skills and are unable to make them laugh...you will be alone for a very very long time. Reading a few books and visiting a few forums will not change that.

 

Some men are beyond hope.

[littlebittle]

I suspect your friend wasn't all that shy or awkward around women...If so how was he able to have sex with 6 women ? Also, you make it

seem like 6 is such a low number.

 

Also, the PUA techniques no matter how closely followed will not work for some men.There are some guys (*ahem*) who are so awkward

shy & lacking in self-confidence that they will never be successful with women.These are the same guys people will assume are gay because they're never seen with a woman and have never been known to have a girlfriend.

 

If you have no rapport with women,poor conversational skills and are unable to make them laugh...you will be alone for a very very long time. Reading a few books and visiting a few forums will not change that.

 

Some men are beyond hope.

 

with the exception of a high school girlfriend, most of the girls who he had hooked up with were drunken one night stands in college. he was by no means a social pariah, but he definitely needed help relating to women.

 

it's absolutely true that this method wouldn't work for anyone. nowhere did i state or imply that. i gave one example of one person who was helped by this method. please don't read any more into it.

 

also, i would just like to say, although this method won't help everyone (especially anyone who has severe social anxiety), NLP and the PUA methods use very basic psychological concepts that can be helpful and informative for anyone.

 

finally, when trying to accomplish any goal, it's important to have a good attitude and be open to new things. nothing is guaranteed, but it never hurts to have a positive attitude

[Phateless]

Or you can understand WHY certain PUA techniques work the way they do and see if there's anything positive you can extract to help you out if you are otherwise clueless at approaching women.

 

This is what it really comes down to.

[Phateless]

I've read up on it and looked at their forums prior to speaking on the subject.

 

I am not talking about how YOU, as benevolently as you were already inclined to do, applied it to your life. I'm talking about the hundreds of people who have bought into it that weigh in on how THEY apply it to their lives. You are one person and while I'm sure other people may have handled it similarly, you are the minority. If you would like to assess the majority, go see their words and accounts of their actions on the book's forums.

This is a method of seeking power. Wishing to have more control over the outcome of our interactions is not automatically a bad thing. But all things intended to give one more power can be used to an ill end.

The bible has some nice stories and common sense advise yet 1000s of its followers wouldn't know a christian act if it invited them into their home and served them the last bits of food it owned.

These books are the same in that sense. And all the disclaimers the authors include don't change the fact that it is usually used for ill intent.

 

How much time have you spent getting to know it? Did you get a little snapshot view and assume that represents the whole?

 

Anyone could glance at loveshack and think we're all a bunch of angry little people yelling about our exes.

 

I'm on the forums there, and in some cases I've had far better advice there than here. Every time this thread comes up I always feel that PUA is being grossly misrepresented, because this board wants some evil thing to rally around.

[samspade]

who thinks this stuff works? is it worth trying, paying for, time, and doing? what is the age requirements for this stuff to work at its fullest potential?

 

i dont know where else to post this but im just really curious, tnx in advance to whoever gives me their opinions

 

The methods work, but they have to be employed properly. What is most important is that the subject undergo a complete mental and emotional shift. It takes time, practice, and a lot of failures.

 

Most of the people who post on LS are beta males or women, so you won't get informed opinions here on the subject. Read some books and try it for yourself.

[gypsy_nicky]

Also, the PUA techniques no matter how closely followed will not work for some men.There are some guys (*ahem*) who are so awkward

shy & lacking in self-confidence that they will never be successful with women.These are the same guys people will assume are gay because they're never seen with a woman and have never been known to have a girlfriend.

 

If you have no rapport with women,poor conversational skills and are unable to make them laugh...you will be alone for a very very long time. Reading a few books and visiting a few forums will not change that.

 

Some men are beyond hope.

 

Unless they're a 9-10 in the looks department, which is a statistical rarity

[sally4sara]

How much time have you spent getting to know it? Did you get a little snapshot view and assume that represents the whole?

 

Anyone could glance at loveshack and think we're all a bunch of angry little people yelling about our exes.

 

I'm on the forums there, and in some cases I've had far better advice there than here. Every time this thread comes up I always feel that PUA is being grossly misrepresented, because this board wants some evil thing to rally around.

 

I'm glad you were a nice enough person with a strong enough level of integrity to approach it the way you have.

 

I've spent time getting to know it because I have two male friends who were told to go this route. One probably could much the same way you have, but the other is sorta wrong in the head. He would actually get caught up in the advise found on the forums because he already struggles to consider woman as people. His mother died in childbirth and he spent his life getting dragged from one military base to another by his dad till he was old enough to enlist himself. He can't even talk to a woman for longer than 10 minutes before he starts talking about her having his "babbies".

 

If you've gone on one of the many forums intended to accompany the books readers, you know yourself what I say is true. What exactly is the point of the "lay reports" other than to focus on getting laid and share personal intimacies with their community with no respect for the individuals involved. So two people have sex and then one of them posts in on their forums for the rest to decide with no real info whether the guy should continue with her or feel proud? Whether or not the girl slept with him is a worthless slut for sleeping with him or good enough to be a FB.

What exactly is the point of their forum for posting the girls pictures and advising other members of how much time or effort they should invest based only on the girl's appearance. This isn't about teaching a guy to find a partner. It is teaching him to get laid by as many as possible and find validation of it through OTHER MEN. NOT validation in oneself through having found success in a relationship. And NOT keeping in mind that the guy might like the girl very much but be invalidated because a bunch of jerks on a site only thinks she is a 7 or 6 or whatever. Isn't the whole point to make the individual guy feel better about having made the effort and actually building a rapport with a living breathing human woman? How can it be about that when the forums are full of hateful attitudes about women and negating them as real people with feelings? What is that teaching anyone? Some guy breaks out of his shell and is then advised to be someone who really doesn't deserve a chance with a woman.

 

What these guys are still lacking after having found some success in getting laid is that they still don't know how to relate to women in a way that fosters respect and moves toward something real.

 

Many people on LS ARE bitter about their exes.

[meerkat stew]

This isn't about teaching a guy to find a partner. It is teaching him to get laid by as many as possible and find validation of it through OTHER MEN.

 

Just like your two friends, one is normal, one off, base good actors will do good things in their romantic social lives, and base immature or bad actors will do bad things. This is not a function of what techniques they use, but of a character that isn't likely to change. A match can be used to light a lantern in the darkness or burn down a building, what changes is the hand holding it. Same with PUA techniques. If a bad actor isn't using PUA techniques, he's going to get what he wants by lying, raw manipulation or even force, so maybe it's a good thing bad apples have the PUA techniques.

 

And saying again, much of the population and posters to these derivative sites are immature teenaged boys, not too far removed from Beavis and Butthead merely because the topic is sex. Most of what is posted as far as sexual exploits and pictures of women probably never even happened. Is this an indictment of the PUA mainstream, or of childish outliers? An indictment of the social tools in question? or simply of what quality of hand is holding the tool?

[samspade]

Originally Posted by sally4sara

This isn't about teaching a guy to find a partner. It is teaching him to get laid by as many as possible and find validation of it through OTHER MEN.

 

Validation has nothing to do with it. It's about living the life that you want to live. If you're looking for approval or validation, you're going about it wrong...just as one shouldn't worry about DISAPPROVAL from people who think enjoying the company of many women is somehow wrong.

 

Can't turn off the italics.

[Explorer]

I've never read Mystery's book but have seen a couple of his tv episodes where his apprentices were in competition to see who was the best PUA. Don't recall the name. Throughout these episodes I did nod my head a lot confirming many of these things DO work. It's waaaaay deeper than a pickup line; it comes down to fundamental human psychology ..having the ability to create and control a certain perception of yourself. Can be quite artful and not necessarily only used just for creating attraction ..can be used to get anything you want. I can be your living proof that they do work if you disagree.

 

Now, through all the women I've slept with by using "technique", I still feel very empty. Maybe it's because I used these methods and lost touch with my core self. I'm thinking to be comfortable with your TRUE self is most likely much healthier.

 

"We shall never cease from exploration

And the end of all our exploring

Will be to arrive where we started

And know the place for the first time"

T.S. Elliott

 

^ it rings quite true

[sally4sara]

Originally Posted by sally4sara

 

Validation has nothing to do with it. It's about living the life that you want to live. If you're looking for approval or validation, you're going about it wrong...just as one shouldn't worry about DISAPPROVAL from people who think enjoying the company of many women is somehow wrong.

 

Can't turn off the italics.

 

Validation is the whole point behind book. The book is about building the social skills a guy needs to be validated by women. To get women to approve and accept them as a sexually interesting man.

The forums however, are about seeking the validation of other men. Was the woman I slept with hot enough to impress the jerks on the forums? Do I get laid enough to make the guys on the forums think I'm a stud?

 

If a guy didn't care about approval or disapproval, he'd likely have enough confidence in himself that he wouldn't have needed to seek the book out to begin with.

And there is nothing wrong with sharing the company of many women. But thats not what you're talking about. You're talking about screwing as many women as possible. Which leads to useless drama, unplanned pregnancy, and STDs that many guys can't even test for to know they carry all without any of the women really knowing who the guy is at the core. So yeah, there IS something wrong with that. It is fear based. The guy can't invest or build real intimacy that way so his core never gets affirmed. Only the public front he has learned to put on. Only his Meat Market Mask.

[Explorer]

Validation is the whole point behind book. The book is about building the social skills a guy needs to be validated by women. To get women to approve and accept them as a sexually interesting man.

The forums however, are about seeking the validation of other men. Was the woman I slept with hot enough to impress the jerks on the forums? Do I get laid enough to make the guys on the forums think I'm a stud?

 

If a guy didn't care about approval or disapproval, he'd likely have enough confidence in himself that he wouldn't have needed to seek the book out to begin with.

And there is nothing wrong with sharing the company of many women. But thats not what you're talking about. You're talking about screwing as many women as possible. Which leads to useless drama, unplanned pregnancy, and STDs that many guys can't even test for to know they carry all without any of the women really knowing who the guy is at the core. So yeah, there IS something wrong with that. It is fear based. The guy can't invest or build real intimacy that way so his core never gets affirmed. Only the public front he has learned to put on. Only his Meat Market Mask.

 

I think it's more about expected satisfaction than approval from your buds.