So, I was asked for an update..

[pureinheart]

First of all (((((((((FA)))))))))) and about 5000 more where that came from.

 

FA, I have to tell you, and ofcourse you've read my issues with my exMM/(who knows, he just might be my H someday) you have really helped me understand better the sitch he was in and how he might have been thinking and feeling.

 

He doesn't talk much about feelings because he's been hurt real bad, but even my daughter said, "mom, I know **** really loves you".

 

I say this is because I have read you replies/posts and you are intelligent, caring, loving and compassionate person....I respect that and respect what you have to say about your man and how you defend him and you would not do that if he were a horrible person.

 

My words have been twisted much and it is irritating, although if you can, just blow it off because it's not worth it.

 

I was appaulled at a new thread posted this morning by a new lady just coming to the forum.....I did not have time to respond much, although asked her the question I did for a reason because I saw the thread in/and going in a bad direction.

 

I didn't have time because I was going to a family gathering as we had lost a family member. This is not an unusual occurrance as the family is very big. My family has endured much tragedy, so much that it is incomprehendable.

 

This leads me to say that life is short...you my precious have been through much also, it is why you walk in the compassion that you do...you are a gem, and your MM I bet is a great guy....

[pureinheart]

P.S. FA....you have really helped me to forgive exMM, thank you:)

[Fallen Angel]

Of course they don't fit because you are in Denial.

 

I don't need a tissue to wipe my nose... YOU will be the one in need of a tissue, I guarantee it. *shrug*

 

Good Luck to you..you need it.

 

I am not in denial, I am very much aware of the facts of my situation, as I actually live it, you read what OTHER PEOPLE are saying about my situation, things that have no basis in fact, and think you have a clue. You have none.

 

And I was asking if you needed the tissue, not to wipe the snot from your nose, but the sh*t from having your nose so far up her ass... lmao. (people really aren't that perceptive after all about what people are saying, huh?)

[skywriter]

Fallen Angel,

 

Your A dynamic is different in that your MM has reached out to make you feel more of an important part of his life. From what I have read in your post he attempts to give you more emotional support than most.

 

He communicates with you moreso than most. These are very important aspects that should be noted. In my case and others I'm sure this would make a difference, at least short term, anyway.

 

Eventually, as sure as life will go on, there will be some need that he cannot fill, just like any relationship, and we cross those bridges as we get to them.

[bittersweet memories]

I am not in denial, I am very much aware of the facts of my situation, as I actually live it, you read what OTHER PEOPLE are saying about my situation, things that have no basis in fact, and think you have a clue. You have none.

 

And I was asking if you needed the tissue, not to wipe the snot from your nose, but the sh*t from having your nose so far up her ass... lmao. (people really aren't that perceptive after all about what people are saying, huh?)

 

I know exactly what you meant regarding the tissue remark. Oh Please! Thats the best you can do. Many of us agree with posters with good points. Whats new?

 

Again you are in serious denial .. You will live and learn.

 

Like I said YOU will be the one in need of a tissue one day..that I promise.

[NoIDidn't]

I know it is said over and over again that we don't know "him" or "his" motives, but I think the desire to not pay child support OR spousal support is HUGE is MOST men.

 

I knew a guy that married a girl (distance friend, the girl) just so he wouldn't have to pay child support. It happens.

 

I have lots of anecdotal stories of men that did just about ANY-and-EVERYTHING to avoid paying childsupport to the mothers of their children. It happens.

 

I understand feeling or wanting to feel that that isn't the case, but it seems like it fits. A man that works 16 hours, is hardly ever home taking care of his own home isn't likely going to want to shell out money to that household once he leaves it. He already isn't very invested in it to begin with. So why would he want to financially support it?

 

To think that he would never do that or that it isn't part of his rationale in not leaving just yet, or waiting until his child is older is not being objective, IMO. Its possible that it very much is part of his motivation for not leaving.

[Fallen Angel]

I know it is said over and over again that we don't know "him" or "his" motives, but I think the desire to not pay child support OR spousal support is HUGE is MOST men.

 

I knew a guy that married a girl (distance friend, the girl) just so he wouldn't have to pay child support. It happens.

 

I have lots of anecdotal stories of men that did just about ANY-and-EVERYTHING to avoid paying childsupport to the mothers of their children. It happens.

 

I understand feeling or wanting to feel that that isn't the case, but it seems like it fits. A man that works 16 hours, is hardly ever home taking care of his own home isn't likely going to want to shell out money to that household once he leaves it. He already isn't very invested in it to begin with. So why would he want to financially support it?

 

To think that he would never do that or that it isn't part of his rationale in not leaving just yet, or waiting until his child is older is not being objective, IMO. Its possible that it very much is part of his motivation for not leaving.

 

i assure you that he would get off cheaper with court ordered support than what he puts out now.. he could pay for a different place to live, pay child support and lose half his retirement pay, and still come out ahead.. lmao..

 

One of the things his wife like to do when she gets upset with him (especially about me, ie after fights about the phone bill, his unpaid time away from home etc) is to go shopping.. Get a call from husband's OW's ex husband telling you about the affair, Buy a house.... see that the affair is still ongoing by way of the phone bill, buy a car... see it is still going on three more months down the road, buy another car...

 

No, you all can read into it things that are not there all you want, I know the truth of this one, and while I agree that many a man stays because it is 'cheaper to keep her' that is simply not the case in my affair.

[OWoman]

i assure you that he would get off cheaper with court ordered support than what he puts out now.. he could pay for a different place to live, pay child support and lose half his retirement pay, and still come out ahead.. lmao..

 

Same happened here.

[NoIDidn't]

i assure you that he would get off cheaper with court ordered support than what he puts out now.. he could pay for a different place to live, pay child support and lose half his retirement pay, and still come out ahead.. lmao..

 

One of the things his wife like to do when she gets upset with him (especially about me, ie after fights about the phone bill, his unpaid time away from home etc) is to go shopping.. Get a call from husband's OW's ex husband telling you about the affair, Buy a house.... see that the affair is still ongoing by way of the phone bill, buy a car... see it is still going on three more months down the road, buy another car...

 

No, you all can read into it things that are not there all you want, I know the truth of this one, and while I agree that many a man stays because it is 'cheaper to keep her' that is simply not the case in my affair.

 

I don't understand why you take everything so personally? I posted that it was possible. I didn't say it was fact, but you accuse me of "read[ing] into things". Go back to my post. The very first sentence speaks of "most men", not even YOUR MM.

 

If you are going to take everything personally and post things that paint this affair (and yourself by extension) in a very unflattering light in defense of yourself, I am not going to be able to continue in this thread. I am not interested in seeing how low a person is willing to go in defense of love or whatever else they believe in.

[Fallen Angel]

I don't understand why you take everything so personally? I posted that it was possible. I didn't say it was fact' date=' but you accuse me of "read[ing'] into things". Go back to my post. The very first sentence speaks of "most men", not even YOUR MM.

 

If you are going to take everything personally and post things that paint this affair (and yourself by extension) in a very unflattering light in defense of yourself, I am not going to be able to continue in this thread. I am not interested in seeing how low a person is willing to go in defense of love or whatever else they believe in.

 

I am taking it personally because this thread is about MY AFFAIR, therefore about MYSELF and MY MM. You can speak in generalities all you want to, but everyone knows you are aiming your words at me. I have stated facts several times, but you still keep trying to twist the facts to fit the way you think the storyline should go.. that is how I see it.. and i am just calling it like I see it.

 

As to seeing "how low a person is willing to go" I would like to know just what you mean by that. I have done nothing but state facts about my relationship. What exactly is it that i am doing that is "low" in your eyes?

[awkward]

 

As to seeing "how low a person is willing to go" I would like to know just what you mean by that. I have done nothing but state facts about my relationship. What exactly is it that i am doing that is "low" in your eyes?

 

I am certainly not NID, but I see the same thing. With every argument/defense you make your MM look like a bigger cad. Ah you don't see it. We're not invested in your relationship so it's easy for us not to see things he does as a commitment to love because that's not what they are. You want to believe so you do. For instance, he is a great father and won't leave the marriage because of his son. Yet he willing to throw his daughter under the bus for fear of her discovering that the affair continues. He doesn't want to miss time with his son ..... yet this same man sometimes works 16 hours a day, plays husband to you and father to your children. How does he find the time? When he is with you, he is not with his son. His wife, from what you wrote in your last post, I'm pretty sure MM is gaslighting her probably as much as he is you. Married people buy homes, cars, etc.. Now those planning on an imminent divorce, notsomuch. I would bet a thousand dollars that MM told her it's over with you, that he loves her, and gaslights her about the phone bill. I doubt that she knows that he is 'staying for the kids'.

 

You have taken on the attitude of it's you against everyone else on this board. It's not about what advice can help you anymore. It's how you can defend each post. I understand you feel attacked. I think some of it is because the truth hurts. Go back and read some of your earlier posts.

 

Wouldn't you rather discuss the facts as you know them and try to get support, than spend all your time on here defending MM? I feel sad for you because I am watching you go down the same road as many before you. Nothing can stop it. It's a train wreck waiting to happen. People will warn you but it won't stop you. He is not a knight in shining armor and he will not save you.

 

Do your IRL friends believe the stuff MM tells you?

 

Your MM is a liar. Can you accept that?

[Fallen Angel]

I am certainly not NID, but I see the same thing. With every argument/defense you make your MM look like a bigger cad. Ah you don't see it. We're not invested in your relationship so it's easy for us not to see things he does as a commitment to love because that's not what they are. You want to believe so you do. For instance, he is a great father and won't leave the marriage because of his son. Yet he willing to throw his daughter under the bus for fear of her discovering that the affair continues. He doesn't want to miss time with his son ..... yet this same man sometimes works 16 hours a day, plays husband to you and father to your children. How does he find the time? When he is with you, he is not with his son. His wife, from what you wrote in your last post, I'm pretty sure MM is gaslighting her probably as much as he is you. Married people buy homes, cars, etc.. Now those planning on an imminent divorce, notsomuch. I would bet a thousand dollars that MM told her it's over with you, that he loves her, and gaslights her about the phone bill. I doubt that she knows that he is 'staying for the kids'.

 

You have taken on the attitude of it's you against everyone else on this board. It's not about what advice can help you anymore. It's how you can defend each post. I understand you feel attacked. I think some of it is because the truth hurts. Go back and read some of your earlier posts.

 

Wouldn't you rather discuss the facts as you know them and try to get support, than spend all your time on here defending MM? I feel sad for you because I am watching you go down the same road as many before you. Nothing can stop it. It's a train wreck waiting to happen. People will warn you but it won't stop you. He is not a knight in shining armor and he will not save you.

 

Do your IRL friends believe the stuff MM tells you?

 

Your MM is a liar. Can you accept that?

 

Once again, you prove my point. What I said is SHE goes on buying sprees.. he was out of town working for two weeks and came back to find his house was on the market, and she had put in a bid on a house, paperwork was all drawn up, and signed by all parties except him, awaiting his signature.

 

The cars she bought, same way.. paper work done.... all that was left was for him to sign the dotted line, and since he intends to be in his marriage for at least another three years, he signed. What is so hard to understand about that? Does that mean he intends to spend forever there? No. Would him refusing to sign have meant he intended to leave? No.

 

As to this "gaslighting" about the phone bill... LMAO, are you presuming she is an idiot? That is the only way anyone could "gaslight" anyone else about something as concrete as a black and white hard copy of a list of calls with time, date, and length stamps on them.

 

As to "the truth" hurting, perhaps. However with the things you all have been saying, that is not the case, because the scenarios you are painting do not jive with the facts as I am witnessing them happen first hand.

 

Again, I see the truth, I live the truth.. you take the FACTS and attempt to twist them to fit the scenario you have built in your head about the way "it always goes". Sorry, I don't buy your scenarios, I live in the truth.

 

I will DEFEND him against your statement that he wants to 'throw his daughter under the bus" where the hell did that come from? That is what I mean about you twisting facts. There is nothing wrong with him expecting a full grown woman who works a now full time job, and has a child of her own, who has lived rent/bill/food free for more than two years to get out and stand on her own two feet. How is that "throwing her under a bus" for God's sake? That was just a comment made from ignorance.

 

If you want me to listen to what you have to say to me, then at least take the time to read what is being said and stick to the facts as they are presented instead of trying to crucify either myself or MY MM. Whatever your issues are are yours, but if you want to talk about mine, then know what it is you are talking about, otherwise your words are wasted on me.

[ladydesigner]

FA I understand where a lot of posters are coming from and like you said they do not understand YOUR situation. You can only experience that for yourself. If it ends well for you and he ends up being with you then that is one situation if it doesn't end well then it doesn't. We live and we learn that is what life's all about. No A is easy and all of us pay a price. Hopefully your outcome will be a happy one, but either way someone will get hurt.

[awkward]

Once again, you prove my point. What I said is SHE goes on buying sprees.. he was out of town working for two weeks and came back to find his house was on the market, and she had put in a bid on a house, paperwork was all drawn up, and signed by all parties except him, awaiting his signature.

 

The cars she bought, same way.. paper work done.... all that was left was for him to sign the dotted line, and since he intends to be in his marriage for at least another three years, he signed. What is so hard to understand about that? Does that mean he intends to spend forever there? No. Would him refusing to sign have meant he intended to leave? No.

 

This is what he tells you. That doesn't make it true. It could be the way it went down but maybe not. Maybe he felt guilty about getting caught cheating. Maybe it's not in his benefit to tell you exactly what happened because you might dump him. Who knows for sure?

 

As to this "gaslighting" about the phone bill... LMAO, are you presuming she is an idiot? That is the only way anyone could "gaslight" anyone else about something as concrete as a black and white hard copy of a list of calls with time, date, and length stamps on them.

 

I am not presuming she is an idiot. I don't even know if she has seen the phone bills. Does he tell you they fight over the phone bills or did you see them fighting? Maybe he got a new family plan after D-day and kept the old cell phone for contact with you. Maybe she doesn't want to see it and doesn't look. Maybe MM is lying to both you and her. Again who knows for sure? He obviously travels for work which makes hiding the affair easier. She could be an idiot. She could also be very smart, getting her ducks in a row, etc.

 

As to "the truth" hurting, perhaps. However with the things you all have been saying, that is not the case, because the scenarios you are painting do not jive with the facts as I am witnessing them happen first hand.

 

Again, I see the truth, I live the truth.. you take the FACTS and attempt to twist them to fit the scenario you have built in your head about the way "it always goes". Sorry, I don't buy your scenarios, I live in the truth.

 

Again, I don't live your life. I am not in your relationship. All I am saying is to open your eyes to other perspectives. There are OW on this forum that can help you. It isn't a fight. It's just shared experiences to help you. Maybe your MM is different. Clearly there have been a few. But what if he isn't? What if he is a typical cake eater? Your family is involved in this relationship. You would be foolish to believe everything he tells you because you know he is a liar. Unless he backs up his words with action, then it is just words.

 

 

I will DEFEND him against your statement that he wants to 'throw his daughter under the bus" where the hell did that come from? That is what I mean about you twisting facts. There is nothing wrong with him expecting a full grown woman who works a now full time job, and has a child of her own, who has lived rent/bill/food free for more than two years to get out and stand on her own two feet. How is that "throwing her under a bus" for God's sake? That was just a comment made from ignorance.

 

No it's not ignorance. It is another perspective. You explained the facts as you know them (what he tells you). I gave you my opinion. It's the same with the child he doesn't want to leave. But he does leave the child. Quite often. When he is in your house, cooking dinner with you, playing with your children, etc. he is not at home with his child that he won't leave his marriage for. It's just another perspective. I don't know if it is true. But it doesn't make sense for his reason for not divorcing.

 

 

If you want me to listen to what you have to say to me, then at least take the time to read what is being said and stick to the facts as they are presented instead of trying to crucify either myself or MY MM. Whatever your issues are are yours, but if you want to talk about mine, then know what it is you are talking about, otherwise your words are wasted on me.

 

That's fair. I will have to reread some of your posts to see if I got it wrong. But I am not trying to crucify you or your MM. I am only here to provide another perspective. Maybe it will help or maybe it won't.

 

I remember the day I found LS. My first thought was well if he does it to her, he will do it to you. I have much more compassion for the other woman than my first day here. I have seen their pain. It's very sad for those that didn't get what they expected. I am not opposed to a MM choosing to divorce and finding true happiness. But I don't have ANY compassion for a MM that strings two women along causing a world of pain in their selfish acts. I don't have any issues or hangups with infidelity. Most of what I learned was right here in this very forum.

 

If you don't want my perspective, just say so. I won't post in your threads if that is your wish.

 

ETA: If I was your friend IRL I would be telling you the same things. I would be crying with you and hugging you. But I wouldn't encourage you to believe everything he tells you. I guess that's all I wanted to add.

Edited January 19, 2010 by awkward

[awkward]

As to "the truth" hurting, perhaps. However with the things you all have been saying, that is not the case, because the scenarios you are painting do not jive with the facts as I am witnessing them happen first hand.

 

Again, I see the truth, I live the truth.. you take the FACTS and attempt to twist them to fit the scenario you have built in your head about the way "it always goes". Sorry, I don't buy your scenarios, I live in the truth.

 

I will DEFEND him against your statement that he wants to 'throw his daughter under the bus" where the hell did that come from? That is what I mean about you twisting facts. There is nothing wrong with him expecting a full grown woman who works a now full time job, and has a child of her own, who has lived rent/bill/food free for more than two years to get out and stand on her own two feet. How is that "throwing her under a bus" for God's sake? That was just a comment made from ignorance.

 

If you want me to listen to what you have to say to me, then at least take the time to read what is being said and stick to the facts as they are presented instead of trying to crucify either myself or MY MM. Whatever your issues are are yours, but if you want to talk about mine, then know what it is you are talking about, otherwise your words are wasted on me.

 

I reread it twice. I marked it in bold below. It's not ignorance on my part. It is just another perspective. A different opinion than yours. The way you stated the facts about his daughter, whom was effected by infidelity which just makes it sadder, makes it look like she is getting in the way of him keeping his affair with you a secret. Maybe she doesn't have a good opinion of cheaters and he is afraid that she will think less of him.

 

But he is conflict avoidant, and he harbours this old school belief that he can not be a great father if he is living somewhere away from his child. His wife does not keep his balls in a jar per se, but I do get the feeling that he just 'goes with the flow' to keep the peace at home. An example of this is that one of his daughters moved back home some time ago, after her own marriage ended because her husband was cheating on her. (That is one thing I have never been able to understand about him, his double standard about how furious he was that his son-in-law cheated on his daughter.. *shakes head from the headache his duplicity of thought causes me*)

 

He was happy to help her and his grandchild, but it has been some time now, and he thinks she has had ample time to get her self together and be back on the road to self-suffciency.. apparently his wife does not agree. But rather than start a big fight (though I have heard about a few small arguments about it) he just lets it go, and withdraws further from the 'family' as a unit, because of his anger at his daughter for her 'invasions' in his privacy (he gets very upset when her presence makes his time with me on the phone or online more difficult to achieve) and his wife's refusal to even discuss setting some sort of boundary to the length of time his daughter can stay and not make any effort to be a 'grown up' again.

 

I guess it may turn out that I am a fool, but I really do believe him that the reason he is there is his youngest child. He tells me that he can not imagine a future without me, and i have told him that I will not be his mistress for a lifetime. perhaps I will wait til his child is grown, perhaps I can not/will not.. but he knows that in order to have me 'forever' which is what he claims to want, that he will have to make a move eventually. Only time can tell...

[Fallen Angel]

I reread it twice. I marked it in bold below. It's not ignorance on my part. It is just another perspective. A different opinion than yours. The way you stated the facts about his daughter, whom was effected by infidelity which just makes it sadder, makes it look like she is getting in the way of him keeping his affair with you a secret. Maybe she doesn't have a good opinion of cheaters and he is afraid that she will think less of him.

 

That did not answer the question, the question I posed to you was how was this 'throwing her under the bus" which is what YOU ACCUSED HIM OF?

 

You act as though him wanting a grown woman to move out of his house and live her own life makes him a bad person.. how about this, how about YOU pay to support her and her child.. how about YOU clean up after her... Pay for her gasoline, food, and deal with her interrupting you doing whatever it is you want to be doing.. be it engage in your affair or read a book.

She was old enough to get married, have a child etc etc.. she is old enough to stand on her own feet.. don't you think? (Oh, and she has a college degree he paid for, not as though she has no skills)

 

Honestly.. every time I make a point and prove that you are trying to alter the facts to fit your scenario, you change the topic, or avoid answering directly to the point I made... lmao.. and you call My MM a liar and manipulator?? You are trying to be a master manipulator, and perhaps it has worked for you with other OW, but I am not here asking for your approval of my affair, i don't need nor desire your friendship, so you can not manipulate me...

 

Perhaps you should move on to women who are on much shakier ground than I am, I am strong in my faith in his love for me.. he proves it everyday, you can't shake that faith. *shrug* Good Night...

[whichwayisup]

(though I have heard about a few small arguments about it) he just lets it go, and withdraws further from the 'family' as a unit, because of his anger at his daughter for her 'invasions' in his privacy (he gets very upset when her presence makes his time with me on the phone or online more difficult to achieve)

 

Do you not see how screwed up this is? HE is irritated/angry with his daughter for being in his presence as it interfers with HIS time with you? And do you not see that 'one day' his daughter will NOT be OK with her father being cozy with you and your kids, treating them so well, better than he treats his own flesh and blood? A, I know you are so inlove, he makes you happy, but it's like you have blinders on and can't see how sick this really is. He is putting you and your kids above his own kids, his daughter.. It's sad and one day he is going to feel the kickback of all this when she will want nothing to do with him. Doesn't matter how old she is..

[Chingaling]

Do you not see how screwed up this is? HE is irritated/angry with his daughter for being in his presence as it interfers with HIS time with you? And do you not see that 'one day' his daughter will NOT be OK with her father being cozy with you and your kids, treating them so well, better than he treats his own flesh and blood? A, I know you are so inlove, he makes you happy, but it's like you have blinders on and can't see how sick this really is. He is putting you and your kids above his own kids, his daughter.. It's sad and one day he is going to feel the kickback of all this when she will want nothing to do with him. Doesn't matter how old she is..

 

OFTLOG! Speaking from experience, it is more likely that a father would be more upset with a grown daughter who has returned home with her child, works full-time and doesn't either contribute to the household or make an effort to get her own place and stand on her own two feet. And just as likely that a mother would enjoy having her daughter and grandchild with her, especially if mom didn't have to worry about putting the bacon on the table for the extended family's enjoyment.

 

As parents it is our job to raise our children to be able to stand on their own two feet. No parent would ever see their child out on the street without opening their doors, however in exchange it would be great to see that they do not overextend their stay or take advantage. These days it is not abnormal to see grown children returning to their parents' home with children of their own for a short while until they can re-launch themselves, but some grown children are not motivated to move forward or move out, since living with mom & dad is so much easier - free child care, lovely home, and much cheaper (i.e nothing) which leaves a fair bit of disposable income to spend on themselves.

 

You can take my word for it that having a daughter come home with a child or two (or three) can be difficult - especially if one parent consistently puts the daughter's needs over that of her spouse. It doesn't always make for the best long term solution. If, however, the same daughter some day realizes that her father is not happy in his marriage to her mother, she may be mature enough to draw on her own experiences, and have empathy for her father. He has been good enough to take her in - why would she turn her back on him???

 

Frankly, I think that you have contorted the OP's comment to suit your own agenda. She is content with her situation. She knows the score. She is very frank in her assessment of her life. She loves the guy, and he evidently cares for her. She knows who she is. She has empathy. She is humble.

 

Infidelity and affairs of the heart have been going on since the beginning of time. It's not that hard to understand. The heart wants what the heart wants.

[bentnotbroken]

OFTLOG! Speaking from experience, it is more likely that a father would be more upset with a grown daughter who has returned home with her child, works full-time and doesn't either contribute to the household or make an effort to get her own place and stand on her own two feet. And just as likely that a mother would enjoy having her daughter and grandchild with her, especially if mom didn't have to worry about putting the bacon on the table for the extended family's enjoyment.

 

As parents it is our job to raise our children to be able to stand on their own two feet. No parent would ever see their child out on the street without opening their doors, however in exchange it would be great to see that they do not overextend their stay or take advantage. These days it is not abnormal to see grown children returning to their parents' home with children of their own for a short while until they can re-launch themselves, but some grown children are not motivated to move forward or move out, since living with mom & dad is so much easier - free child care, lovely home, and much cheaper (i.e nothing) which leaves a fair bit of disposable income to spend on themselves.

 

You can take my word for it that having a daughter come home with a child or two (or three) can be difficult - especially if one parent consistently puts the daughter's needs over that of her spouse. It doesn't always make for the best long term solution. If, however, the same daughter some day realizes that her father is not happy in his marriage to her mother, she may be mature enough to draw on her own experiences, and have empathy for her father. He has been good enough to take her in - why would she turn her back on him???

 

Frankly, I think that you have contorted the OP's comment to suit your own agenda. She is content with her situation. She knows the score. She is very frank in her assessment of her life. She loves the guy, and he evidently cares for her. She knows who she is. She has empathy. She is humble.

 

Infidelity and affairs of the heart have been going on since the beginning of time. It's not that hard to understand. The heart wants what the heart wants.

 

 

And the brain should never function to let you know when something just isn't right. Damn brain, what are you good for?

[pureinheart]

i assure you that he would get off cheaper with court ordered support than what he puts out now.. he could pay for a different place to live, pay child support and lose half his retirement pay, and still come out ahead.. lmao..

 

One of the things his wife like to do when she gets upset with him (especially about me, ie after fights about the phone bill, his unpaid time away from home etc) is to go shopping.. Get a call from husband's OW's ex husband telling you about the affair, Buy a house.... see that the affair is still ongoing by way of the phone bill, buy a car... see it is still going on three more months down the road, buy another car...

 

No, you all can read into it things that are not there all you want, I know the truth of this one, and while I agree that many a man stays because it is 'cheaper to keep her' that is simply not the case in my affair.

 

Actually, he doesnot have to loose any of his retirement. I am not sure if it is because she pissed off the judge by lying, although he got the better end of the deal...lost none of his retirement, and he did not have to make up for that in any other way, like paying her something in lue of.

[Fallen Angel]

Actually, he doesnot have to loose any of his retirement. I am not sure if it is because she pissed off the judge by lying, although he got the better end of the deal...lost none of his retirement, and he did not have to make up for that in any other way, like paying her something in lue of.

 

He is retired military, she automatically gets half of his retirement pay. It is not up to a judge, it is just how it is.

 

Though what she gets from his current 401k in his new job, that would be up to a judge i suppose.

[awkward]

That did not answer the question, the question I posed to you was how was this 'throwing her under the bus" which is what YOU ACCUSED HIM OF?

 

Again, the information that you're providing here is what he tells you. Him throwing her under the bus is my opinion. This is the third time I am explaining it to you. He doesn't want his daughter in his way so he can keep cheating. You've said it twice now so I don't think I am mistaken.

 

I don't know why DD isn't moving out. Maybe she wants to support her mom emotionally since her dad is a liar and a cheater. He spends a lot of time traveling and a lot of time at your house with you and your kids. But I don't know the reason because I can't ask your MM, his BS, or his daughter.

 

What I am asking you is, how would you feel if this was your daughter? Suppose MM decided to have an affair while married to you. How would you feel to discover that your husband was upset because your daughter gets in the way of him cheating?

 

For some reason you seem to have a lot of clarity when giving others advice. But when it comes to your situation, it is only one way. The way he tells you it is. You get very defensive of anything not in that neat little box, even if it his own words.

 

You act as though him wanting a grown woman to move out of his house and live her own life makes him a bad person.. how about this, how about YOU pay to support her and her child.. how about YOU clean up after her... Pay for her gasoline, food, and deal with her interrupting you doing whatever it is you want to be doing.. be it engage in your affair or read a book.

She was old enough to get married, have a child etc etc.. she is old enough to stand on her own feet.. don't you think? (Oh, and she has a college degree he paid for, not as though she has no skills)

 

Wanting your child to move out and live their life doesn't make someone a bad person. Wanting your child to move out so you won't get caught cheating makes you a sick, cold-hearted person. Maybe it is time for her to move out. I don't know because I don't live in their house. It is their marriage and their family. Usually families make these types of decisions together. Again, just because he tells you that his wife refuses to set boundaries doesn't make it true. Why doesn't he ask DD to move out?

 

I am not her mother so of course I won't support her. I don't know how old she is so I don't know if she is old enough to stand on her own feet. I don't know anything about her so how could I know what she can and cannot do?

 

Honestly.. every time I make a point and prove that you are trying to alter the facts to fit your scenario, you change the topic, or avoid answering directly to the point I made... lmao.. and you call My MM a liar and manipulator?? You are trying to be a master manipulator, and perhaps it has worked for you with other OW

 

I am not trying to alter facts. I said that maybe his marriage and his family aren't the way that he tells you they are. We are basing our opinions on things MM tells you. I have been on topic in every post I've made in this thread. I didn't change the topic although maybe you are upset about me wondering why your children are involved with him. Am I the only one who thinks that is foolish? Not one person or friend has told you that isn't a good idea? I haven't avoided any of your questions and admit that I do call your MM a liar because he is a liar. I did not call him a manipulator. And I am definitely not trying to manipulate you. I don't even know where that came from.

 

but I am not here asking for your approval of my affair, i don't need nor desire your friendship, so you can not manipulate me...

 

I don't think anyone is here seeking approval nor friendship. Your MM is not what you want him to be and that's not my fault.

 

It's apparent that any advice or support that I offer here isn't going to help you. I wish you luck and hope you get your MM.

[Fallen Angel]

Awkward,

 

I went back through your posts to try to figure out your story...

 

Oddly enough you do not seem to have one, yet you haunt the OW/OM boards passing out judgments on OW/OM and MM/MW.

 

I wonder, why is it that you are here offering your 'advice and insight' to someone who obviously does not want your advice and insight (I am speaking of myself here. I can not, nor would I, speak for other OW/OM), rather than over on infidelity where you can offer support instead of judgement?

 

In my opinion, the things you are saying are ridiculous. The scenarios you paint are foolish, and I am getting nothing from our continued back and forth. You obviously have nothing of value to offer me, by way of insight, as you claim to have never been either BW or OW. Thank you for your time, but I think it is pointless for you and I to continue in this dialogue. Have a great day.

[awkward]

It's not that odd that I don't have a story. I don't know what the statistics are but there really are some who don't cheat. Also, I don't "haunt" the OW forum. I don't even read most threads. Generally I read a thread and post in it. Then I follow that thread. I don't have tons of posts nor do I visit daily unless I am active in a thread.

 

Since you are curious I will explain how I got here and why I am still here. I was reading an unrelated forum where there was a thread with a discussion about something in this forum. I clicked on the link and arrived here in the OW/OM forum. If I had landed in Infidelity I probably wouldn't still be here posting on LS but at that time there was a lot of stuff going on here. There was an OW posting about her pregnancy and a BW posting about a similar story like they were part of the same triangle. (Later I realized it was all probably fabricated.) There was also a man posting about his wife cheating. Someone or maybe several posters, discovered who the the OM was and outed him IRL. The BH was pissed about it and eventually the thread was locked or deleted. It was really crazy. I posted in a few of the other forums but the OW/OM forum was where all the fascinating threads were at the time.

 

Then I read a few other threads and followed them. Lakeside was getting ready to move to his MW's city. His story was incredible with the risks he was taking and I was interested enough to follow the developments. Later I read a few more threads and started to see the OW/OM as a real person with real pain. I did start out as a rubbernecker, but I've grown since that. There have been some real gut wrenching stories and it's natural to have sympathy for the person and their situation. I think the majority of my posts were in KG's threads. She had a way of expressing her pain that made you want to hug her and stop her before she ruined her life. Since I've been here I've learned to have compassion for the OW/OM. I've been happy for those that it worked out for and sad for others when it didn't.

 

As for why I don't post in the infidelity forum, I guess it's because I rarely read there. Most of the time I am catching up with other threads that I've read in this forum. Then I read a new thread and sometimes post in it. Maybe my advice/support would be more welcome over there as I don't have a lot of sympathy for the cake eating MM/MW that want both a spouse and an AP. However, I don't think that makes me different than most people whether they've BTDT or not. Some MM/MW do the right thing whether it is to stay married and get help or leave their marriage and get help. What I've learned here in this forum is that those MM/MW are few and far between. Most of the time either the AP or the BS has to cut the ties to end the pain.

 

I feel that my advice/support helps some people here. If I didn't, I would not still be here. Sometimes having an opinion from someone outside the triangle helps and is of value. In some cases it doesn't help. I am the first to admit that my perspective might not help in some cases and that someone would be better off with support from somebody that has BTDT. Sometimes all somebody needs is a hug and you don't have to be a BW/OW to offer that. I realized too late that I wasn't contributing anything of value to your thread and that all we were doing was butting heads. I have no desire to continue to do that and won't respond further.

[Got it]

Fallen,

 

At the end of the day his reasons for not leaving aren't important. If you are happy with him, your relationship with him, then that is it. You have no reason to justify your reasoning to anyone else.