awkward Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 My children love My MM and he loves My children. I do not think I am doing harm to my children by allowing them to love and be loved by a man, who would never let them see him drunk, would never tell my children that they are mistakes, that they are stupid, that they are worthless. He DOES help them with homework sometimes, he DOES tell them he will do things (he promised my daughter some sharks teeth for a speech she was giving, and he made the hour and a half drive, just to drop them off to her, and had to turn around and drive for four hours back in the opposite direction to go to work.) and he actuallu follows through with what he says he will do, he DOES sit and play games with us.. dominos, yahtzee, uno.. whatever. He DOES invite the kids to come into my room so we cn all kick back and watch a movie together. They see him treat me lovingly. They see him speak softly to me. They see him help me with the dishes, cooking dinner, folding clothes. They see him touch me gently. They see him hold my hand. They see him NEVER cuss in their presence, and say please and thank you.. always. They see him speak to me respectfully, even when we disagree. They see him make me smile and laugh. They have seen more from him, about how a man should treat children he cares about, and how a man should treat a woman he loves, than they saw in 15 years of me being with their father. They know he is "just mommy's boyfriend" and they are old enough to understand that it may not be permanent, but why would I deprive them the love of ANYONE who is willing to step up and love them? I thank you for your concern, but I would not be willing to deny my children the pleasure that they get from his company, or him the pleasure he gets from their company. You have made some good points and the opposite of that would be horrendous. I can tell that your children's well being is important to you. My answer to the bolded part above is because it is just temporary. That is a pretty big reason. When it ends not only will you hurt, but your kids will hurt too. I wish you and your family happiness. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm sure your MM treats your kids well..That isn't what the issue really is. He's married and playing "house" with you and your kids. WHILE he has a family and a wife at home. It just isn't right, it's inappropriate due to the circumstances. And, no I'm not judging.. Just be aware that one day your kids may find out 'who' this guy is, and they may ask you questions about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 You have made some good points and the opposite of that would be horrendous. I can tell that your children's well being is important to you. My answer to the bolded part above is because it is just temporary. That is a pretty big reason. When it ends not only will you hurt, but your kids will hurt too. I wish you and your family happiness. The truth of the matter is that most relationships people experience in their lives are 'just temporary'. The friends you make in school, your first loves, your best friend who lives next door. You grow up, you move away, very few of those relationships last a lifetime, but you cherish the time you had with those people, and the love you recieve from them while they are a part of your life carries with you forever. I just can not agree that being 'temporary' is a reason to not love or to refuse love that is being offered. I'm sure your MM treats your kids well..That isn't what the issue really is. He's married and playing "house" with you and your kids. WHILE he has a family and a wife at home. It just isn't right, it's inappropriate due to the circumstances. And, no I'm not judging.. Just be aware that one day your kids may find out 'who' this guy is, and they may ask you questions about it. I am assuming you mean that they will find out he is married. They already know. At least, the two older children do. My now ex-H told them. My middle child asked My MM about it one day. Asked him why he dates me when he is married. We were both stunned. My MM responded by telling her that it is because he loves me very much, but he has obligations that he needs to see to, a child of his own that he is responsible to/for. He told her that sometimes life doesn't work in the order that most people think it should, that in a perfect world, he would have met me before he married, or after he divorced, but that was not the way it happened with us. And that if it had happened that way, that he would not have his children, that he had with his wife, and I would not have my children that I had with my now ex-H, and that those are the children we were both supposed to have. Was it a perfect answer? NO. But, how else do you answer that? Truth is, I have spoken with my children about how they feel about my relationship with My MM, and they said that they love him, and they love me, and they are just glad to see that I am finally smiling and happy. They understand that we love each other, and are just in a tough spot. Link to post Share on other sites
Hazyhead Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 FA - I have always been touched by your posts, I wonder how you see it going? For me, I can only be optimistic to a certain extent - deep down I know the truth but my heart fights it. Do you not sometimes worry that there will be a breaking point that will do more damage to you than walking away and taking the pain now? I ask because that's been a worry of mine, and yet I've found it so difficult to act upon it. In a way the negativity has me thinking of a lose/lose situation and picking a touch choice is so hard. (((hugs FA))) Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I am assuming you mean that they will find out he is married. They already know. At least, the two older children do. My now ex-H told them. My middle child asked My MM about it one day. Asked him why he dates me when he is married. We were both stunned. My MM responded by telling her that it is because he loves me very much, but he has obligations that he needs to see to, a child of his own that he is responsible to/for. He told her that sometimes life doesn't work in the order that most people think it should, that in a perfect world, he would have met me before he married, or after he divorced, but that was not the way it happened with us. And that if it had happened that way, that he would not have his children, that he had with his wife, and I would not have my children that I had with my now ex-H, and that those are the children we were both supposed to have. Was it a perfect answer? NO. But, how else do you answer that? Truth is, I have spoken with my children about how they feel about my relationship with My MM, and they said that they love him, and they love me, and they are just glad to see that I am finally smiling and happy. They understand that we love each other, and are just in a tough spot. Wow, to me that was a perfect answer! Link to post Share on other sites
datura_noir Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I don't know if anyone else sees this, but has it ever occurred to you that he's (or any MM who claims to be staying for the kids) not "sticking around in his M until his child is raised" because he is such a great dad, but because he doesn't want to have to pay CS? And he knows he'll be entering a home where his finances are needed to support your children? It seems to me he is trying to come out of this as clean as a whistle, so he won't be paying his W any monthly money, and he can slide seamlessly into his life with you. Link to post Share on other sites
awkward Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 The truth of the matter is that most relationships people experience in their lives are 'just temporary'. The friends you make in school, your first loves, your best friend who lives next door. You grow up, you move away, very few of those relationships last a lifetime, but you cherish the time you had with those people, and the love you recieve from them while they are a part of your life carries with you forever. I just can not agree that being 'temporary' is a reason to not love or to refuse love that is being offered. I agree that many relationships are just temporary. I disagree that MM should be part of the family. But it obvious that you have given this a lot of thought and it works for your family. And I thank you for not taking my comments as an attack on you and discussing this aspect of your relationship as I am sure there are other women lurking around here that are in a similar situation. I am assuming you mean that they will find out he is married. They already know. At least, the two older children do. My now ex-H told them. My middle child asked My MM about it one day. Asked him why he dates me when he is married. We were both stunned. My MM responded by telling her that it is because he loves me very much, but he has obligations that he needs to see to, a child of his own that he is responsible to/for. He told her that sometimes life doesn't work in the order that most people think it should, that in a perfect world, he would have met me before he married, or after he divorced, but that was not the way it happened with us. And that if it had happened that way, that he would not have his children, that he had with his wife, and I would not have my children that I had with my now ex-H, and that those are the children we were both supposed to have. Was it a perfect answer? NO. But, how else do you answer that? Truth is, I have spoken with my children about how they feel about my relationship with My MM, and they said that they love him, and they love me, and they are just glad to see that I am finally smiling and happy. They understand that we love each other, and are just in a tough spot. I think it was a pretty good answer given the circumstances. I can think of a lot of things that could happen in the future that might come back and bite you, but I don't think you need to hear those types of things right now. Good luck to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 I don't know if anyone else sees this, but has it ever occurred to you that he's (or any MM who claims to be staying for the kids) not "sticking around in his M until his child is raised" because he is such a great dad, but because he doesn't want to have to pay CS? And he knows he'll be entering a home where his finances are needed to support your children? It seems to me he is trying to come out of this as clean as a whistle, so he won't be paying his W any monthly money, and he can slide seamlessly into his life with you. Absolutely not! My MM works a hard honest days work, often 16 or more hours a day, on call 24/7 to provide VERY WELL for his family. He spent 22 years in the military, and when he retired from the military he went right in to a well paying job in the civillian world. He likes to work, he has always provided, and he would have no problem giving his child whatever he wants/needs. And that would include not feeling a moment of anger at court ordered child support. If you knew him, that thought would never cross your mind. How about this instead.. seeing how wonderful and lovingly he treats MY children, that is an indicator of the fact that he treats his own children wonderfully, and lovingly, and he just really is a great dad that wants to be an intregal part of his child's life. Why do you want to assume the worst about someone, when all indicators point to the worst NOT being the reality of the situation? Link to post Share on other sites
Chingaling Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I don't know if anyone else sees this, but has it ever occurred to you that he's (or any MM who claims to be staying for the kids) not "sticking around in his M until his child is raised" because he is such a great dad, but because he doesn't want to have to pay CS? And he knows he'll be entering a home where his finances are needed to support your children? It seems to me he is trying to come out of this as clean as a whistle, so he won't be paying his W any monthly money, and he can slide seamlessly into his life with you. I somehow doubt (in FA's situation specifically, seeing as he is as good with her and her children as he can be) that the fear of a monthly child support payment would be the primary reason for MM to stay with his W. Perhaps the reason he stays is because he really is a nice guy and doesn't want to hurt his wife or his child for what he may think of as his own selfishness. I personally feel that MM in a long-term affair stay with their families out of a soul-crushing sense of guilt at the thought of putting their own desires ahead of the family unit. My opinion is that while many MM would like to leave their marriages for their AP they feel guiltier than if they wanted out of their marriage for reasons completely unrelated to their affairs. Link to post Share on other sites
awkward Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I personally feel that MM in a long-term affair stay with their families out of a soul-crushing sense of guilt at the thought of putting their own desires ahead of the family unit. Are they not putting their own needs/desires above their families by having an affair in the first place? I give credit to the MM that makes a choice, either the OW or the BS, but to the ones who hurt both the OW and BS by not making a choice. IMO those men are selfish. They want it all. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Why do you want to assume the worst about someone, when all indicators point to the worst NOT being the reality of the situation? Beats me, but there is a LOT of that going on here on LS. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Beats me, but there is a LOT of that going on here on LS. Yes... sadly there is *sigh* And I am told I do not have to defend My MM, yet people seem to want to turn him into a monster. He is not a monster. He is a man torn.... between love of his family, and love of me (and my family).... If he were the monster people are trying to make him out to be, he certainly would not have involved himself with me. I am in love, emotionally draining on him while he tries to meet my emotional needs, I have three children he has embraced and loves...I am not an easy mistress. I make demands on his time, I make demands on his love, I make demands that he never make a promise he won't keep... a monster who just doesn't want to pay support would find someone to just f*ck once in awhile... they would not basically head a second family. Ceratinly they would not be helping to provide both monitarily and emotionally for a whole second family unit. If that was his reasoning, just some sex on the side, for having me in his life, he certainly would have moved on to much greener pastures by now, as my pasture is brown and in need of some serious tending... *tending that he has taken on his own shoulders.... Link to post Share on other sites
datura_noir Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Well, let's break this down- He works 16 hrs a day...give 4 hrs for sleep (if he is a person who gets by on that), one hour for shower/sh&*t/shave, up to two hours conversing w/you....that leaves him with 2 hours of his own time, not assessing the yard, household duties, eating a meal and doing his laundry(which you said he does himself), and I'm thinkin'... Nevermind. Link to post Share on other sites
datura_noir Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 BTW, have you ever heard of the KISA (Knight in shining Armour Syndrome)? Some men are prone to this type of behavior, when they see a single mom struggling, and want to be the hero. My husband fit the bill....the OW fit it, too. Are you looking at this from all angles? Do you know the dynamics of your "dance" with him? I just want you to be clear, and not to have an idealised view of things. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Well, let's break this down- He works 16 hrs a day...give 4 hrs for sleep (if he is a person who gets by on that), one hour for shower/sh&*t/shave, up to two hours conversing w/you....that leaves him with 2 hours of his own time, not assessing the yard, household duties, eating a meal and doing his laundry(which you said he does himself), and I'm thinkin'... Nevermind. LOL... i assure you that he does indeed often work 16 hours a day, and often that leaves him very little time for doing much other than working, but yes he makes time for me, even if that means he only gets two hours of sleep... In fact, he will get upset if he has told me to 'just call and wake me up if you want to talk' and I do not call that night just to chit chat.. because i love him and want him to get some rest, and he wants to talk to me instead... he does get days off occasionally though, he uses those days to do laundry, the yard work etc etc.. Link to post Share on other sites
awkward Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 He is not a monster. He is a man torn.... between love of his family, and love of me (and my family).... I don't think he is a monster. But a man torn .... maybe or maybe not. He doesn't choose because he doesn't have to. You are generally happy with this relationship (but it would be nice to have all of him type happiness). He is happy with this relationship. I don't know how the BS feels about it, maybe she is happy with her relationship with him. There are a lot of women that are happy being the OW. They don't need more. When they start wanting more, that's when the unhappiness or in a few cases more happiness begins. Some are afraid to make him choose because they might not choose them (because of the kids, the finances, the house, the lifestyle, whatever reason that applies to them specifically). Some don't want him to choose at all. Some made the MM choose and ended up in a pretty good relationship with him. If you believe that he is still married because of his children then that is all that matters. You are the one that knows him, not us. Whether any of us believe it or not doesn't matter. You can defend him if you'd like, but unless his actions prove otherwise, it doesn't matter how much you defend him. He still looks like a cake eater to many people here and probably a lot of your IRL friends. Why is that? Because people can say anything, but it is what they do that shows you what it is that they want. A lot of people believe that. Then again, others here believe that the MM does stay for the kids. My point is, it doesn't matter what we think. The only thing that matters is what is true. You are the one living your life, not us. If he divorces and marries you, there will be people here supporting you. If it all ends, there will be people here supporting you. If it all stays the same, you can still get support here. There will always be people that give advice that you don't want to hear, thankfully you can choose to ignore it. But if it hurts (and I don't mean namecalling), then perhaps you need to examine it when you are ready. I believe that you had a D-day although I am not certain. If you did, then it looks like the BS made her choice too for whatever reason she gives. Maybe she is staying for the kids too. I'm curious about the "in love" rationalization. Does the BS believe that her husband is in love with you? Does he tell her that he isn't in love with her? or Does he tell her that he loves her and that his relationship with you is over? Those answers would likely tell you a lot about their relationship and whether either one/or both is staying for the kids. If you could be a fly on the wall then you'd know for sure. If my husband was in love with someone else or just not in love with me anymore, I'd divorce. Even when our son was young, I still would have divorced. He would have still been a good father to our son, just not my husband. My husband not loving ME would be a complete deal breaker. I can't even imagine either one of us not loving each other or being in love with someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
bittersweet memories Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Like I said in another thread, the more you reveal about him the worse things look for you concerning him. I hope my opinion doesn't cause you to stop posting in fear of my opinion or that of others, but its the truth. This (below) conflicts so much with other things you say he's said and done: He's conflict avoidant, but he puts his foot down and tells his W that he will basically do whatever he wants to do? That isn't going with the flow type behavior. That is in your face defiance and disrespect. I have a name for him, and its not conflict-avoidant, its deceitful. Conflict avoiders don't create conflicts to run from. This man does. This made me chuckle. He wants his daughter to leave so she won't discover his affair. LOL. No wonder you get headaches dealing with his duplicity. But again, this isn't due to some sort of conflict avoiding. Its because he doesn't want to be found out again, and least of all explain it to his daughter. And, yes, this is my opinion of his actions. Stop calling yourself names. It may well be that in your denial of what is right in front of you, that you are being foolish. But I wouldn't call you a fool. There are so many red flags here, its not even funny. I hope you decide to look out for yourself. He's not doing it, at all. He won't even truly look after his own family. He's concerned about his child living away from him, but he spends the night with you knowing that his child is safely with his W. Isn't he away from his child in that instance?What would be any different if he got divorced? The child would be safely with his then, ex-W. Do you not see THIS duplicity? So many red flags. Too many to point out. The life is slowly being sapped out of you too. Wow...Excellent Point!! Link to post Share on other sites
bittersweet memories Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 One more... In most states (I assume you are in the US, though you may not be, of course), I believe that over a certain age (but certainly by age 15), the child gets to choose which parent to live with. If they are as close as your MM says, would his son not choose to live with him? In which case, of course, he could have the best of both worlds as he desires. Whatever HE chooses, you need to keep in mind that your life is also made up of your choices. None of us here want to see you unhappy year after year. Sometime love is enough, but if you're unhappy, than maybe it's not enough, not really. (((hugs))) Very True...actually I believe its age 13 when the courts give the child the choice. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Sadly, when his wife realizes he's living a double life, he will pay.. He is worried about CS now? Just wait until the truth comes out. I feel for you FA, and I would hate it if your heart gets broken.. Just be aware of what's going on around you.. right now all may seem OK, but as you know from reading others situations here on LS, you know how quickly things can do a 180 and go really bad... Link to post Share on other sites
bittersweet memories Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I am assuming you mean that they will find out he is married. They already know. At least, the two older children do. My now ex-H told them. My middle child asked My MM about it one day. Asked him why he dates me when he is married. We were both stunned. . WOW...just wow. Poor Kids! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 WOW...just wow. Poor Kids! POOR KIDS?? Are you insinuating for one single minute that I am not being a good mom?? I freaking DARE YOU to accuse me of not being a good mom to my kids... BRING IT!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Sadly, when his wife realizes he's living a double life, he will pay.. He is worried about CS now? Just wait until the truth comes out. I feel for you FA, and I would hate it if your heart gets broken.. Just be aware of what's going on around you.. right now all may seem OK, but as you know from reading others situations here on LS, you know how quickly things can do a 180 and go really bad... ummm. again,, NO he is NOT worried about paying child support, wow, you people just twist things to fit the way you want them to be huh?? lmaoooooooooooo Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Very True...actually I believe its age 13 when the courts give the child the choice. Actually, you obviously have no clue what you are speaking about. i was recently divorced, and I DO KNOW FOR FACT how the legal system works in regards to divorce, and the childrens wishes. Perhaps you should have a fact or two about that which you speak, BEFORE you speak. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Wow...Excellent Point!! and gotta say, i am curious as to what the excellent point was? as there were several that she attempted to get across in that post, none of which fit My and My MM's relationship with each other, or the kids... HMMM.. again, people making up stories, rather than listening to the facts, and you come in yes, yesing everyone.. lmao.. need a tissue to wipe your nose?? Link to post Share on other sites
bittersweet memories Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) and gotta say, i am curious as to what the excellent point was? as there were several that she attempted to get across in that post, none of which fit My and My MM's relationship with each other, or the kids... HMMM.. again, people making up stories, rather than listening to the facts, and you come in yes, yesing everyone.. lmao.. need a tissue to wipe your nose?? Of course they don't fit because you are in Denial. I don't need a tissue to wipe my nose... YOU will be the one in need of a tissue, I guarantee it. *shrug* Good Luck to you..you need it. Edited January 18, 2010 by bittersweet memories Link to post Share on other sites
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