Lets actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market

[muse08]

I would also say, though, that if Hollywood puts pressure on any gender, then it has to be women far more than men. On average, the men in movies are mostly average looking and the women are almost always drop dead gorgeous. Not to mention the never-ending theme of the 'beauty and the beast' storylines. Women get pressure from all directions to look stunning. The emphasis on looks never goes away for us.

 

(cont'd)

...This is such a good point and I wondered if anyone else would realize it. This should give women more of a reason to at least TRY to stick together and empower one another. Hollywood can turn women against one another,b/c it paints such an unrealistic picture of standards for women and especially for some of our young girls.

 

It's not healthy and the pressure is NOT coming from just "other women" as someone mentioned. It's imposed by the media.

 

Although people should know that appearances aren't everything, they are often what start a relationship, realistically speaking. So when men cheat on their gorgeous women and (vice versa, but less...), we know that appearances are not sustaining. Superficial things don't sustain a real relationship. THAT's one crucial thing that I think people need to remember in order to maintain a relationship.

 

IMO, differences attract me more. I am not interested in men who look Hollywood-like. I'm more attracted to guys who have something different about them. I like them to be in relatively good shape, but not too "cut up" and I definitely don't like a PRETTY BOY/METRO SEXUAL/ETC...naaa. Like my men clean, yet a bit rugged.

 

If you want your S.O. to look or be what the media portrays as "it", doesn't it make you feel like you may not have anything rare or special. I like feeling like my guy is rare/ unique/special and not looking like every other guy.He needs to be able to treat me like a princess YES! but he doesn't need to be mr HOLLYWOOD... naaa.

 

MEN HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT regarding women?

Edited December 15, 2009 by muse08

[TheBigQuestion]

Yeah I agree the dating market is completely skewed against men.

 

The vast majority of women I know, tall, fat, short, thin, annoying, whiney, stupid, smart, etc, all have a boyfriend or some kind of love interest. If they don't, it's out of their own choice.

 

Yet most of my male friends, who are decent looking, extremely intelligent, funny, one of them is even tall (he's the only one who comes close to getting girls), and yet they don't have any girls in their life. This is including me, you don't even want to know the hurdles i'm jumping through to just be with one girl who has a billion problems and is not even that amazing looking from anyone else's point of view, and there's a good chance nothing will even come out of this.

 

I have to agree with the idea that 10% of men are getting 90% of the sex. The guys who dedicate themselves to playing women are ruining for us guys who just want to have some companionship and maybe a marriage one day. Unfortunately most women would rather have sex with the cookie cutter 6'2 vain model man numerous times and in vain try to "convert him " into "boyfriend material", over just hanging out with a more than adequate looking guy who satisfies them both sexually and spiritually. I don't care if they deny it, we all know it's the truth.

 

Don't know if there's more women than men, but it sure seems that way. How else can you explain every woman having a love interest, while most guys I meet, even the decent looking, interesting, and charming ones, I know are single, majority of them hopelessly so .

 

Not every guy who is able to easily have sex with women spends his life dedicated primarily or solely to the pursuit of sex. There are still many more "naturals" out there than there are trained pick-up artists. Many of these people do enjoy meaningful relationships but, like anyone else, can have psychological issues that lead to them sabotaging these relationships.

 

Furthermore, it doesn't matter that women would "prefer" to have sex with a 6'2" "hot" guy. What matters is, who do they actually sleep with, and who do they actually date? In general, people get into long-term relationships with those who have a similar degree of physical attractiveness. Keep that in mind.

 

What does this mean for you? Your frustration and lack of confidence with women probably bleeds into your interactions with them. Make changes in your life to become the guy that is able to get a lot of dates and a lot of love interests. It can be done. In other words, man up or shut up. The same goes for all your so-called charming friends. Either learn the game or accept your lot without complaint.

[Ruby Slippers]

So let's say I marry an accountant/lawyer/business owner that works all the time.. How does that add to my life?

It removes some of the responsibility of bread winning and pressure of supporting the household/family from your shoulders. It means that she won't expect you to pay for every meal, trip, gift, and emergency, and will never make you feel like a walking ATM. It means you don't have to worry as much about her leaving you, because she has options and is with you because she wants to be, not because she needs your money. It means you get to interact with a woman who's involved in the world, renewing her learning and expanding her horizons all the time, which makes for great conversation. Just a few that come to mind.

 

Of course these disillusioned women are looking for a man at "their level"..

We are disillusioned because we are trying to support ourselves through our own hard work, initiative, and intelligence, and we desire a man who can be our equal and contribute as much to the relationship as we do? Why, exactly?

 

If the men at "their level" choose more feminine women that have time, it must be because the man is "threatened by her success" Are you kidding me?

So being able to earn your own living and take care of yourself is unfeminine? Funny, because I thought it was only children who were expected not to be able to take care of themselves, rather than female adults as well.

 

Who said men want women who are independent anyway?

I didn't say that. What I did say is that women are gaining more independence, and in fact learning that we MUST attain our independence just to SURVIVE. It would be nice if men could figure this out, love us, and support us for evolving as we have to, as a partner, rather than keep trying to reduce us to T&A and baby-making machines.

 

(I am saying a lot of this to make a statement, as I am currently kind of sort of seeing someone who so far has been nothing but understanding and supportive of me working very hard to run my own business. He told me the other day that I'm the only woman he's ever been involved with that he can't dominate in every area, and it drives him wild. )

[TheBigQuestion]

To Ruby Slippers, I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything, but I'm pretty sure there have been studies done to show that a woman that has achieved high levels of education (which usually means higher levels of income) are in fact more likely to leave a long term relationship or marriage. It's ONLY a correlation, but it is something worth noting. Other than that I'm inclined to agree, and the "frustrated chump" attitude of a lot of guys in this thread is irritating and emasculating (to them) in my opinion.

[Woggle]

Success and indepence are a good thing but not if a woman has the attitude that men are useless and disposable which many independent do have. They I need a man like a fish needs a bicycle mentality and that is just a turnoff to men. A successful woman can be very appealing and attractive but not if she has the misandrist mindset that so many of them which pretty much assures that a marriage will be a long series of battles.

[meerkat stew]

(cont'd)

MEN HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT regarding women?

 

You make some good points, and media is a very bad influence on gender relations for many reasons.

 

Wanted to address one point you make, why are women in Hollywood better looking than the men? Well I agree they are. What you have to remember, though, is that Hollywood is very formulaic in certain respects. There have always been many "clown" type characters in the movies, for example, or "old wise teacher" types, or "business" types and the formula dictates that a vast majority of these non-starring roles are men (this is changing over time). If you take out all those types of characters, and list strictly leading men and women, you will find similar attractiveness levels. Now lots of the leading men are shorter than the 6'2 ideal, but that's because the camera likes short people better than tall.

[TheBigQuestion]

Success and indepence are a good thing but not if a woman has the attitude that men are useless and disposable which many independent do have. They I need a man like a fish needs a bicycle mentality and that is just a turnoff to men. A successful woman can be very appealing and attractive but not if she has the misandrist mindset that so many of them which pretty much assures that a marriage will be a long series of battles.

 

So if you find a woman like this, just toss her aside and forget about her. What's the big deal?

[Woggle]

So if you find a woman like this, just toss her aside and forget about her. What's the big deal?

 

The problem is that many of these women don't show their true colors until you have dated them for a while.

 

I am not one to think that successful and independent women are bad catches. My wife could be considered that but she actually likes men and does not view us as the enemy. My ex only worked at a temp agency for some of our marriage and she was a nightmare so a houswife does not make a better partner.

[Ruby Slippers]

To Ruby Slippers, I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything, but I'm pretty sure there have been studies done to show that a woman that has achieved high levels of education (which usually means higher levels of income) are in fact more likely to leave a long term relationship or marriage. It's ONLY a correlation, but it is something worth noting.

Yes, and I need more information. Maybe this study looked at women who had been married since 20, grew a lot as they educated themselves, and really did outgrow those marriages. That's a very different scenario than, say, a late-20s or mid-30s guy meeting a woman around the same age, a woman who is solidly on the education and career track, and beginning a new relationship with her. The former example illustrates a woman who started out with no options and ended up with many, whereas the latter describes a woman who has had options for years.

 

Other than that I'm inclined to agree, and the "frustrated chump" attitude of a lot of guys in this thread is irritating and emasculating (to them) in my opinion.

I have finally figured out that about 75% of the adolescent rage on this board comes from frustrated, unhappy men.

[AD1980]

I think both sides are to blame..

 

I think in terms of women allot of women have entitlement sydnrome and think they deserve the best even if they dont bring that themselves..

 

I think some women instead of just letting things play out and see what person they connect with have a laundry list of wants as if therye a lotto ticket that they have to cash in

 

Instead of going with he flow of life and maybe falling in love with somebody whos missing a few of their million things on a laundry list from a man physically emotionally financially whatever they already cut off the majorty of the dating scene before they start..

[AD1980]

(cont'd)

...This is such a good point and I wondered if anyone else would realize it. This should give women more of a reason to at least TRY to stick together and empower one another. Hollywood can turn women against one another,b/c it paints such an unrealistic picture of standards for women and especially for some of our young girls.

 

It's not healthy and the pressure is NOT coming from just "other women" as someone mentioned. It's imposed by the media.

 

Although people should know that appearances aren't everything, they are often what start a relationship, realistically speaking. So when men cheat on their gorgeous women and (vice versa, but less...), we know that appearances are not sustaining. Superficial things don't sustain a real relationship. THAT's one crucial thing that I think people need to remember in order to maintain a relationship.

 

IMO, differences attract me more. I am not interested in men who look Hollywood-like. I'm more attracted to guys who have something different about them. I like them to be in relatively good shape, but not too "cut up" and I definitely don't like a PRETTY BOY/METRO SEXUAL/ETC...naaa. Like my men clean, yet a bit rugged.

 

If you want your S.O. to look or be what the media portrays as "it", doesn't it make you feel like you may not have anything rare or special. I like feeling like my guy is rare/ unique/special and not looking like every other guy.He needs to be able to treat me like a princess YES! but he doesn't need to be mr HOLLYWOOD... naaa.

 

MEN HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT regarding women?

 

Sorry but i dont buy that the media and men are the reason women are so nuerotic about their looks and that they have to compete with these fantasies on tv..Women do it to themselves..

 

Allot of times i think its fishing for compliments..

 

You cant tell me a pretty or somewhat attractive girl who gets hit on allot and complemented by Men and Women at some point doesnt realize shes at least somewhat attractive i think the problem is she wants to be more attractive then most women...Its competition..

 

If you get enough compliments in your life on your looks and your s/o thinks you are attractive that should be enough to validate you but for most women it isnt,why isthat?

 

Women feel the need to be universally attractive being attractive to a decent amount of people isnt enough for women..

 

Dont get me wrong theyre are women with self esteem issues who need help but i think allot of women who do it are hiding behind lack of self esteem and are really self absorbed narcisists..

[Chicago_Guy]

I think part of the problem is the gender gap is narrowing, in terms of education, accomplishment, and income. I have a number of driven and successful female friends who have a hard time meeting men who are on their level. I am also interviewing a lot of female business owners these days for my work, and they are all saying the same thing: it's hard to meet men on your level, and when you do, they are often threatened by your success or are not OK with the amount of time and energy you have to invest to be successful.

 

The double standards definitely go both ways. Men want women to be strong, independent, and capable, but they also want us to have ample time to take care of them and baby them a little. You can't have it all.

 

Things are changing, and it's hard for a lot of people to deal with.

 

One observation I have made about a lot of professionally successful women is that they are often very self-centered and negative, or at least the lawyers and accountants whom I have met have been like this.

[b52s]

2. Men do not display in volume enough. How many women are you talking to every week? Start small, go to the mall and talk to shop girls. Go to the dog park and talk to women there. Go to... you get the idea. If your display is limited to bars and nightlife, you are working against the current. Nightlife in current U.S. culture is hideously slanted against normal guys and slanted towards drug dealers, faux musicians, jobless scenesters, PUAs, etc.

 

Believe me, I've done this when social networking websites didn't exist.

 

I actually live near a mall that's pretty much "dead" in the afternoon on the weekdays....heck, sometimes on the weekends, and tried to become a "regular" at some of the shops these cuties work.

 

Anyhow, most women I've discovered, don't like being approached while reading a book at a bookstore, magazine rack or even the cafe court for "company" for someone to join them in a meal.

 

I've tried this, and they have this very angst look on their face of "Why in the WORLD is this person talking to me?! I don't know him, I better get the mace ready or be ready to dial 911"

 

They aren't thinking of your skillz or charm....they have one thing on their mind, and that is one foot facing the exit of the establishment. LOL

 

Of course, that's my geographic location, it's more of a rural area...and most women have boyfriends....typically they wind up stuck with the same HighSchool sweetheart ...and don't know how to be single probably.

 

One time, there was this cute jewelry store clerk just leaning on a d isplay, twiddling her thumbs....it was dead, no customers around the area....and I approach her with some small talk.

 

She laughs and goes, "Um...did someone SEND you over here?!"

 

Apparently, mall workers tend to play jokes on each other I guess...and the woman thought I was a practical joke sent her way, and not an actual guy who want to get to know her.

 

But now with these organized events and social networking gatherings.....it's become easier to get to know people, rather than the cold turkey approach....Meetup.com is great too, because then you have a REASON to approach women, extend a hand and introduce yourself.

[Miko]

I keep hearing about meetup.com. What's it all about?

[calizaggy]

These are problems I see .. I do not think men have really high standards..

 

As for myself, I would like a woman who..

 

1. Is not obese(66% are overweight, 33% clinically obese)

2. Does not have kids

3. Is not depressed/bipolar/have anxiety all the time or on psychotropic drugs (about 15-25 million women)

4. Is not in massive debt, ultra materialstic, spendaholic..

5. is not an alcoholic, or on other drugs.

 

Just eliminating the above women leaves men with a small % of choices.

 

Just a plain jane normal woman (that does not exhibit 1-5) has become a novelty in our society. And of course this novelty woman realizes this, and might spend her 20's in school, working, playing the field, and not even wanting to settle down until she finds a guy that meets her outrageous expectations..Often times she will not, and just stays single.

 

Are my expectations so picky? I did not include she must have a great career, must be a great cook, have a perfect body etc. Just a normal woman has become rare in American society.

[espec10001]

The dating world is poor currently because we are moving farther and farther away from nature. All our technology we have made to help us do things easier has had the opposite effect: we have become less human, less feeling, and more focused on the material realm.

 

Humanity is going through a trial right now, a stern lesson is being taught. You cannot take the nature out of humanity, you cannot destroy all the plant life on this planet, you cannot force people to do things against their will without some backlash.

 

We must seek the new horizons, the Spiritual and higher realms, beyond the physical. The physical world is but a passing, nothing in it lasts. But the Spirit, the essence that makes us human, never dies. It is humankind's duty now to restore the Garden of Eden on Earth.

 

Let me try to put it in a clearer perspective. If you wish to think outside the box, think in the circle. The Earth revolves. The seasons, they revolve. Time, is a revolution. Our understanding of the Universe starts with a recognition that all is a cycle. Some cycles are short, like night and day, while others, like the cycle of seasons, take longer. This has all happened before, and it will happen again, and again, and again, until we quit the material and seek the spiritual. This cannot happen until the Garden of Eden is restored on Earth.

 

Men have their part to play, but women must also understand their important role in a revolution. Will the women say YES to the men who say NO?

[Miko]

These are problems I see .. I do not think men have really high standards..

As for myself, I would like a woman who..

1. Is not obese(66% are overweight, 33% clinically obese)

2. Does not have kids

3. Is not depressed/bipolar/have anxiety all the time or on psychotropic drugs (about 15-25 million women)

4. Is not in massive debt, ultra materialstic, spendaholic..

5. is not an alcoholic, or on other drugs.

 

I think this is the problem. First of all, seriously try to find a PERSON, let alone one of a particular sex, that doesn't have ANY of these things at some level. I don't want any of those things either, to the extreme, but we, men AND women tend to scram as soon as we see the slightest hint of a "sign" of any of these things. We project stereotypes based on specific behaviors which do not necessarily mean that there's a real issue but we're sometimes jaded by our spendaholic ex so we think every woman that goes shopping once in a while is a freak like our last one. We're over cautions to a fault. Seriously, no one's perfect and I don't think I would call it "settling" to date someone who is not perfect in every way because you know you're probably as f**cked up as the next person. Show me someone "normal" and I'll show you a boring a$$ person.

[silic0ntoad]

Interesting POV from everyone... Although it seems pretty male dominant... Not too many females here ripping on guys.

 

I think everything has credence. Really. Why? Because the men on this forum are from a collection of areas. Some are succesful daters, some are not. Honestly, if men all around the world are saying the same thing, it must be at least plausible.

 

As far as society changing, I agree. I think society as a whole is on a swift downward spiral. "Single" women is the largest growing population the world over. Childbirth is at record lows in Europe and other parts of the world. Look it up. It's all true.

 

Onto the dating scene in the US. Part of the problem? Definately the "Go Girl" Feminism. I've seen it alot of times. A guy approaches a girl. Girl turns him down. Girl's friends all make fun of said gentleman, thus empowering girl to turn people down. It's ridiculous. I see it all the time. My brother's girlfriend and I are tight, and I've known her and all her girls for years and years. They do this at the bar ALL the time.

 

The sense of entitlement is another huge factor. Sure, men believe they are entitled to a loving, caring, and what they deem, sexy wife who will be faithful, honest, and supportive. Is that not fair? Women want the same, but never give the guy a chance if they don't make xxxx dollars, drive a beemer, own a nice place/rent a nice place etc.

 

As far as societal standards being harsh on women, cut me a break. Women now are not portrayed as they were ten years ago. Watch TV. The women all run the show. Men are expected to not be what they are; they are expected to be supportive, submissive, dominant, aggressive, passive, perfect, faithful, financially exceptional, have excellent looks, the list goes on and on.

 

I am currently talking to a girl who asked me on the second date how much money I make. She acted like she was running the show. I put my foot down and told her my line, now she won't leave me alone. I'm in control, and it's kind of funny because this girl is a control freak. I think it kills her that I dictate when we will meet up, how often we talk, etc.

 

It's a situation that's a rarity these days I think.

 

IDK this new age hippie bullsh*t thought pattern needs to stop. People need to realise: WE ARE HUMAN. Everything we do is meaningless. Posessions, money, cars, etc. It never lasts. It's all worthless and meaningless.

 

But having someone. Accepting them for who they are. Being emotionally connected.

 

That's worth something. I think people put the objects and everything else before that. And that's the problem.

[Miko]

I am currently talking to a girl who asked me on the second date how much money I make. She acted like she was running the show. I put my foot down and told her my line, now she won't leave me alone. I'm in control, and it's kind of funny because this girl is a control freak. I think it kills her that I dictate when we will meet up, how often we talk, etc.

 

Sounds like a disasterous person. Might be fun for a bit though.

[silic0ntoad]

Sounds like a disasterous person. Might be fun for a bit though.

 

She's a wreck. Always telling me how sh*tty her life is. I love it. I am not connected in any way at all, and she is clingy as hell. I don't feel bad simply because I already told her it won't work, and we could be friends (I've known her circle of friends for ages, so friendship works for me in this case) She actually makes more money then me, is a good looking girl, but man does she have issues! It is amusing though.

 

But really, in all honesty, I am so over dating. I have all but given up. I am good at talking to women, but all of them turn out to be so superficial that I bail on them. I am not ashamed of my income or lifestyle. But that's my own. I just had a girl the other night tell me if we got together I wouldn't be allowed to were Curve. I asked why. She said "It's too cheap for my tastes. I'd buy you good stuff."

 

WTF?!?! It's like, are you serious? In my life, this is my chocolate factory. I wear what I want, when I want, as often as I want. I don't buy expensive stuff because I think it smells awful. I like to smell good, but I won't spend $75 for a small bottle of french cologne ROFL.

[calizaggy]

Miko, point taken..

 

I was more or less talking about extremes.. I have a cute single neighbor that is about 80k in debt for getting her masters in sociology.. She is 27 and jobless. She also feels she "deserves" a big home, new car, and wants a family..I guess it has not occured to her that she put herself in quite a hole, but she is waiting for that guy to come bail her out. After all she is cute and has a vagina.

 

 

Overall, that is the mentality I see. Women feel entitled to the things they see on television..

[jw90063]

Just from reading the title of this thread, one of the first things that came to mind was "the problem with the dating market is ONLINE dating".

[sumdude]

Just from reading the title of this thread, one of the first things that came to mind was "the problem with the dating market is ONLINE dating".

 

"I found love on DateMax!"

 

I've been trying the online thing for a bit and it feels like I'm car shopping.

[jw90063]

"I found love on DateMax!"

 

I've been trying the online thing for a bit and it feels like I'm car shopping.

 

What in the world is datemax. I've never heard of it before.

[phineas]

Oh man. If you've got a cute kid, you've already got one foot in the door. An easy conversation starter.

 

When conversating with these ladies, I purposely refer to my W as "his mother". Never use the word "wife", just to see where it goes. Get lots of offers for dates, drinks, etc, but I just politely decline.

 

But for regular guys, I see that unless your 6'1", and a GQ model, forget it. Or maybe if you drive a BMW or Mercedes.

 

Two of the cutest kids.

YES! my soon to be Ex is always refered to as His or Their mother.

They always tell me what good places their taking their kids to play & when. LOL!

 

Too bad i've got so little time & money right now i'm not really interested in dateing.

 

I think i'm a regular guy.

 

I'm 5' 8" & balding. With a little bit of a gut. But i've been hitting the weights hard & that is slowly decreasing.

 

And, the kicker is they all have good jobs so their probably not looking for a suger daddy which is my biggest concern.