Lets actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market

[OpenGL]

I think we (well, at least all the men on here) can all agree as of right now entry into the dating market is extremely broken. There are some fundamental problems that lock out a lot of men from entering the dating market due to the "social floor", for lack of a better term, being set so high these days.

 

For example, I was talking to my parents last weekend as to why I am still single and haven't brought home a woman for them to meet in years. They are not even that old, late 40's, and were clueless the current situation in the dating market. They were astonished how I could be such a smart and successful guy and not very eligible bachelor at the age of 27. I told them about the game and where I stand in the current dating market, they were very confused as to why I couldn't just talk to women at the bookstore or supermarket (LOL). I mean, they had *no* idea that normal people can't just walk up to girls and talk to them these days without getting your eyes rolled at you or just plain being ignored. They also were under the impression that online dating works and tried to tell me I should try that :laugh:.

 

So that's the background, lets get on to my original post. This is where women can chime in too. So does anybody want to take a stab at what is wrong with the dating market (for men) and why it is so heavily skewed against eligible males entering the market? Here are my two theories, stated very simply:

 

1. Male/Female ratio from 18-35 is heavily skewed, at least 5:1 or more.

2. Hollywood culture giving unrealistic impressions on how males are suppose to look, therefor the the floor for being "good looking" is unrealistically high. Girls buy into Hollywood a lot more than guys do.

3. De-facto polygamy becoming socially acceptable.

 

I think (3) is the main factor for the huge difference between the dating market now and 20 years ago. I believe (2) is fairly influential too.

[betamanlet]

I live in DC, and this is what all my dates seem like, so much so I've stopped trying. She makes zero effort, I'm never good enough, she's full of herself.. oh yes, and is late, and b lames me.

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/04/AR2009120403218.html

Edited December 15, 2009 by betamanlet

[Miko]

I think hollywood is a factor. It makes us pickier aesthetically, which while does force people to try to look better, may still end up leaving each individual with fewer choices than without. It also creates infinite number of usually false 'mini-stereotypes' based on minute little actions, phrases, idiosyncrasies. I think there's a ton of small things on top of a couple big ones.

[kizik]

I think we've made princesses out of our young women and given them false, unearned entitlement. Instead of giving a brave guy some common courtesy, a lot will lay on the bee-otch attitude, and some even openly scoff at guys who approach them.

 

And I think the reason people love the show "Mad Men" is because we secretly long for clear gender roles, which were a lot easier to define in the '50s.

[melodymatters]

Good question !

 

I think it's too MANY choices ! I mean remember back in high school, there were always a FEW people you interacted with on an almost daily basis that you thought were cute.

 

Or back when we all lived in small towns, you knew everybody, and you met your cousins friend at a dance or something and BAM, you were an item.

 

Now everybody moves, everybody has the internet, everyone was raised with this sense of entitlement, meeting a nice average person is now called "settling", etc !!!!

[Awesome Username]

This is VERY related to where you live. You giving the 5:1 ratio leads me to believe that you probably live in a city.

 

In big cities, women are closed off and "to themselves" a lot more than they are in the suburbs or otherwise. The reason for this is safety. A women who stands and talks to a random guy has a good chance of being followed home if she doesn't have a car, so she has to be extra careful about who she is dealing with. Not to mention, people who are constantly surrounded by other strangers all the time NOTICE less around them - another defense mechanism against cognitive overload.

 

If you focus on a place where women are relaxed and aren't in a rush to do something, you're more likely to have a chance to talk to a girl without it seeming awkward.

 

Also, in our parents' day, there was no internet. There were no indoor video games. Hell, there were only a few channels on the TV. In order for you to not lose your sanity, you had to LEAVE THE HOUSE. A lot of people sit at home and watch TV because no matter what your mood is, there is something on that you can watch; The same thing applies to video games.

 

The result is that less people get out, and more people can sit at home and be satisfied chatting online or whatever. There are simply less hangout places than there were when they were younger, and there is a very wide generation gap.

[mem11363]

Where did you get that ratio of 5 to 1 from? It is not even close to right. What do YOU think are the main reasons women don't respond to you?

 

PS as you age and earn more the market inverts completely.

 

 

I think we (well, at least all the men on here) can all agree as of right now entry into the dating market is extremely broken. There are some fundamental problems that lock out a lot of men from entering the dating market due to the "social floor", for lack of a better term, being set so high these days.

 

For example, I was talking to my parents last weekend as to why I am still single and haven't brought home a woman for them to meet in years. They are not even that old, late 40's, and were clueless the current situation in the dating market. They were astonished how I could be such a smart and successful guy and not very eligible bachelor at the age of 27. I told them about the game and where I stand in the current dating market, they were very confused as to why I couldn't just talk to women at the bookstore or supermarket (LOL). I mean, they had *no* idea that normal people can't just walk up to girls and talk to them these days without getting your eyes rolled at you or just plain being ignored. They also were under the impression that online dating works and tried to tell me I should try that :laugh:.

 

So that's the background, lets get on to my original post. This is where women can chime in too. So does anybody want to take a stab at what is wrong with the dating market (for men) and why it is so heavily skewed against eligible males entering the market? Here are my two theories, stated very simply:

 

1. Male/Female ratio from 18-35 is heavily skewed, at least 5:1 or more.

2. Hollywood culture giving unrealistic impressions on how males are suppose to look, therefor the the floor for being "good looking" is unrealistically high. Girls buy into Hollywood a lot more than guys do.

3. De-facto polygamy becoming socially acceptable.

 

I think (3) is the main factor for the huge difference between the dating market now and 20 years ago. I believe (2) is fairly influential too.

[phineas]

PS as you age and earn more the market inverts completely.

 

I agree with this. i'm about to ding 38 & separated.

I can't take 3 1/2 yr old anywhere without single mothers chatting me up.

 

some of them are pretty hot also.

 

It cracks me up because I don't hit on them & eventually they always seem to work my "wife" who is not there into the convo.

 

It's like they can sense i'm available.

[meerkat stew]

Problems in the dating market for men in modern U.S. culture.

 

1. Men do not work on their display enough. 10% of men get 90% of sex, and the first steps for getting sex are identical to the first steps for getting a GF. Men refuse to move themselves as far as possible towards the 10% via being in excellent shape, clothing, grooming, cologne, flirtation/seduction/convo skills, social value, thinking this somehow "cheapens" them or necessarily makes them into a d-bag. All it does is make you into a man with options. Is it unfair that men have to work much much harder than women currently? Yes. Does that unfairness matter? No. It's just a given reality to be overcome. Most of the unfairness is due to hordes of guys of all ages out there who make the pursuit of sex their only goal in life. You can't compete with these guys unless you learn from them.

 

2. Men do not display in volume enough. How many women are you talking to every week? Start small, go to the mall and talk to shop girls. Go to the dog park and talk to women there. Go to... you get the idea. If your display is limited to bars and nightlife, you are working against the current. Nightlife in current U.S. culture is hideously slanted against normal guys and slanted towards drug dealers, faux musicians, jobless scenesters, PUAs, etc.

 

3. Women have been coddled by a feministic culture backlash from older days for the last 30 years into incredibly unrealistic expectations, and expect to maintain all the double standards of the past that are favorable to them while simultaneously completely discarding the double standards of the past that are unfavorable to them.

 

Ladies before you rant in response to this, answer one question please. On the average U.S. woman's (NOT your) next first date, if her date wants to go dutch, will she a) accept it cheerfully as a sign that he considers her an equal? or b) come here and make a thread about how "cheap" her last date was? Be honest. And no one wants to hear about how non-materialistic YOU are, or how many penniless waifs YOU have dated, as those things are utterly irrelevant.

[Woggle]

I can't put my finger on it but it is just shot.

[bac]

For girls a relationship is just about an emotional connection. So, if you communicate with girls, focus on her emotional needs. That is all is needed to fulfull your physical/possibly emotional needs.

First, Look at her/ internalize what you see and think of what she feels at the moment. Do not think about your own looks, competition of other men and especially polygamia. But, think about a girl's feelings. Try to talk with her and give her what she wants on emotional level.

[kizik]

Women have been coddled by a feministic culture backlash from older days for the last 30 years into incredibly unrealistic expectations, and expect to maintain all the double standards of the past that are favorable to them while simultaneously completely discarding the double standards of the past that are unfavorable to them.

 

This

 

+1

 

....................

[meerkat stew]

Try to talk with her and give her what she wants on emotional level.

 

Road to friendzone. Instead approach her with an honest, respectful and warm sexual interest. The only thing a guy should worry about on an emotional level with a woman -initially- is stimulating her raw attraction. The rest should be saved for when a relationship is actually in place or forming up well.

[Woggle]

It is a combination of princess syndrome and you go girl feminism that has created this entitlement mentality in women. They don't realize that respect and admiration should come from how a person conducts themselves instead of just being born female. No man owes a woman anything. I must say though that men helped create this monster by constantly catering to women's whims.

[Awesome Username]

Road to friendzone. Instead approach her with an honest, respectful and warm sexual interest. The only thing a guy should worry about on an emotional level with a woman -initially- is stimulating her raw attraction. The rest should be saved for when a relationship is actually in place or forming up well.

 

If the first thing out of a guy's mouth is sexual interest, he's in the no-zone. Maybe this is just me.

[seibert253]

I agree with this. i'm about to ding 38 & separated.

I can't take 3 1/2 yr old anywhere without single mothers chatting me up.

 

some of them are pretty hot also.

 

It cracks me up because I don't hit on them & eventually they always seem to work my "wife" who is not there into the convo.

 

It's like they can sense i'm available.

 

Oh man. If you've got a cute kid, you've already got one foot in the door. An easy conversation starter.

 

When conversating with these ladies, I purposely refer to my W as "his mother". Never use the word "wife", just to see where it goes. Get lots of offers for dates, drinks, etc, but I just politely decline.

 

But for regular guys, I see that unless your 6'1", and a GQ model, forget it. Or maybe if you drive a BMW or Mercedes.

[alphamale]

For example, I was talking to my parents last weekend as to why I am still single and haven't brought home a woman for them to meet in years. They are not even that old, late 40's, .

i'd better not post here as i'm turning 45 in a few months...

[Woggle]

Things even seemed different in the 90s when I was in high school. The stuff I hear about these days that goes on in schools seems alien to me and I graduated in 1997.

[Angel1111]

Maybe it's a southern thing but I have rarely seen women like you're describing - being snobbish when approached and not thinking that an average successful guy isn't good enough.

 

I would also say, though, that if Hollywood puts pressure on any gender, then it has to be women far more than men. On average, the men in movies are mostly average looking and the women are almost always drop dead gorgeous. Not to mention the never-ending theme of the 'beauty and the beast' storylines. Women get pressure from all directions to look stunning. The emphasis on looks never goes away for us.

[alphamale]

Women get pressure from all directions to look stunning. The emphasis on looks never goes away for us.

most of that "pressure" comes from other women

[Awesome Username]

Maybe it's a southern thing but I have rarely seen women like you're describing - being snobbish when approached and not thinking that an average successful guy isn't good enough.

 

I would also say, though, that if Hollywood puts pressure on any gender, then it has to be women far more than men. On average, the men in movies are mostly average looking and the women are almost always drop dead gorgeous. Not to mention the never-ending theme of the 'beauty and the beast' storylines. Women get pressure from all directions to look stunning. The emphasis on looks never goes away for us.

 

I completely agree with this.

 

And yes, women in the South are generally more old-fashioned and easier to approach. They are also better at flirting in general.

 

Big city and women on the coast have a real fear of strange men, so it is often externalized as rudeness or being rushed.

[kizik]

Maybe the problem with the dating market, as the OP puts it, is that everyone sees themselves as 'the best' and as another poster here said, if they choose someone who isn't a '10,' all of a sudden they've 'settled.'

 

It's one thing to know you're attractive and to shoot for the best of your gender opposite, but people - male and female alike - adopt an attitude that they're God's gift; this creates ego and entitlement; and it just makes for an arrogant, sexier-than-thou atmosphere sometimes, on the parts of men AND women.

[ADF]

Well, one thing we know it can't be is number 2, because the ratio of men to women in that age range is nowhere near 5:1. It is pretty close to 1:1, actually. It sounds to me like you are posting your individual frustration as part of some large social trend. It isn't.

[Brady_to_Moss]

Maybe the problem with the dating market, as the OP puts it, is that everyone sees themselves as 'the best' and as another poster here said, if they choose someone who isn't a '10,' all of a sudden they've 'settled.'

 

 

This isn't the problem with me or my guy friends i know, but i know a goo ammount of girls that are like this. I know i am far from perfect, but 80% of people have yet to figure this out. More girls that guys might i add.

[meerkat stew]

If the first thing out of a guy's mouth is sexual interest, he's in the no-zone. Maybe this is just me.

 

Not what I'm talking about. Not suggesting men walk up and spout a crude, sexual come-on, nothing of the sort. It's all about attitude. Men have been cowed into being ashamed of their sexual desire. Men are described sexually as predators, rapists, child molesters, stalkers, players, dogs, pigs etc. ad infinitum in modern culture to a point where they are ashamed of their natural, healthy desire for sex. This causes them massive internal conflict and disillusionment in forming normal sexual relationships with women. It thoroughly erodes confidence, the mighty "C" word that most women claim to want and respect.

 

Women respect and feel much more attraction for me when I exhibit the traits of a confident man who approaches them as a masculine, sexual man, not an apologetic beggar, hat in hand, supplicating, looking for a handout. At least in the initial attraction that leads to sex and/or dating relationships, women respond to being led and seduced. We can call it passion, flirtation, seduction, whatever, it just works that way best for me and all the men I know who have success getting dates, relationships and sex.