Do you guys like this kind of porn?

[Jersey Shortie]

Yeah, I thought you were a woman.

 

And I am not in agreement that grown men are completely unaffected by the things they see in pornography. How many times do men see things in porn and then want their gfs to do it? Alot. If men weren't affected by the things they see in porn, things wouldn't have esculated to what you admit when you say you see more things of women being abused just so a man can get off.

 

It blows being a woman in this day and age. Men apparently think we are crap and deserve to be abused. Must be great as a man knowing you can degrade an entire gender and get off to it. And at the end of it, you can turn off tha tporn movie and pretend you give a damn about your wife or girlfriend or daughter and giving women respect.

[Els]

Oh, Jersey. Men have been abusing women since the first neanderthal ever clubbed a female on the head and dragged her back to the cave. We have it no harder in this day and age.

[Jersey Shortie]

When you seen an increase in porn that likes to degrade and humilate women, don't sit there and pretend there isn't a problem. And taking kitchy stereotypical comments to make light of a discussion is easy to see through. But believe me. I get it. Most men don't care because they don't value women much to begin with anyway. Guess the joke is on all those women out there that think their husbands and boyfriends respect them when at the end of the night they are maturbating to women being abused.

[Els]

Interesting. What's your take on women who masturbate to female dominatrix scenes then?

[Mahatma]

Yeah, I thought you were a woman.

 

And I am not in agreement that grown men are completely unaffected by the things they see in pornography.

 

I am not necessarily saying that. I am just saying that for sure the younger crowd is being negatively affected.

 

The others are right in saying women have been degraded since the beginning of time. However... it seems to me like it is more now than it was 10 or 15 years ago. I am only 19 so that is about as far back as I can look. Someone who is older should be able to see the change over time even more.

 

You can't really say whether the porn is the cause of that, or if it is the result.

[blair08]

"Someone who is just starting to be introduced to the world of sex sees this porn, and thinks it is the norm.... especially when it is in the majority of porn clips now".

 

I agree with this. To me, porn is not what is used to be. I remember watching porn a long time ago, and you did NOT see alot of the things you see now days. Honestly, I think its gotten worse. And yeah I have watched porn with my hubby before but only certain kinds, I'm not into seeing some of the things people do to one another these days. Perhaps some women in porn these days have really lowered their standards and suffer from really low self worth.

[Des]

What makes a man? Not one who likes to hurt women, I'll tell you that. Maybe in today's society, men feel so little within themselves, they get off on seeing women abused and belittled.

 

I'll go ahead and get this out of the way. Masculinity, shmasculinity. A socially conditioned concept. There is no "real" or "fake" man, just your idea of an ideal man, one who thinks, feels, and behaves to your liking. That has gotten so old, and it only works on insecure men. Biologically, I a male. End of story.

 

I am just really stunned by the amount of men here that are into the kind of porn discussed here and I think that this is only going to keep progressing to be much more worse and even much more accepted.

 

It may become more accepted over time, as everything does. But people felt the same way about regular old deep throat porn back when it was much more "taboo". Today everyone knows of it, and it didn't lead to the demoralization of society or the worlds end. Sure, it may continue to become the fantasy of more men, and more common to see in porn, but whether or not it will be accepted in the real world, will be up to women.

 

Men no longer want to protect women. Apparently they want to see them gagged and slapped around. What does that say about you and the other men that enjoy that?

 

You are equating ones sexuality to the rest of their person. Most men still seek to protect women from real harm. Which is apart from what a consenting couple do in the bedroom to turn each other on, or what a man finds arousing to watch in the sense of fantasy. I don't feel the women in these video's need "protecting" from themselves and their own consent - You've consistently come up with ways to twist your argument into sounding like we're discussing actual rape and abuse.

 

But hey? Women don't deserve respect or kindness right? We just deserve to be smacked around and gagged. That's the message. That must be what "real" men do.

 

Who said anything about anyone "deserving" anything? You're obviously receiving a message that I've somehow missed.

 

If these kind of videos have esculated to the point where more and more men like to hurt women in the process of sex, rather then bring her pleasure, I don't see this going anywehre good.

 

Well, it isn't about "hurting" women, as you put it. You make it out to be more than it is, you're only taking it for what it appears to be on the surface. A woman wouldn't allow a man to do something to her if it was really hurting her, and a man wouldn't like to think he's really hurting her, either. This is more akin to Chinese water torture than it is a stoning, ya know. What do you think about some of the other more traditional BDSM/dom/sub practices that actually involve pain?

 

Don't sit there and pretend that everything is all good and men are healthy and that this is just a case of sub/dom play and it's all good. It's not It's scarey.

 

Care to explain why it's not? Is it because leather and chains aren't involved? Maybe it is, and this is what scares you. Seeing this sub/dom concept come out from the fringe and being exposed to a more mainstream audience. Seeing it become the "norm" in seemingly non-fetish porn, which may lead to it becoming more "the norm" outside of porn. I do think that you make a few good points here and there, and I understand this one. Porn is bringing to light this idea, and therfor more men and women are exposed to it and turned on by it. But so what? People will do as they please, again, no one is being forced to do anything, and their private lives are their business.

 

Now you can prattle on about it just being "sex" and "all men do it". But if all men do it, that's not exactly saying aything to be proud of. And no, holding a womans nose to cut off her air supply isn't sex and that's not about domination. That's about humilation.

 

I don't remember saying all men do it? It's a form of breath play really, I see it as part of the domination aspect.

 

you have probably spent ALOT of time looking at porn and have a VERY warped idea of women. You are probably even a little bitter , misgnoistic, and think you are a better human being then women.

 

My idea of women isn't warped at all, I perceive them the same as anyone else. I have nothing against them, I treat everyone equally regardless of sex on a daily basis. If anything, I have more respect and admiration for most women than I do men. In this case, you've got to appreciate a woman who is so willing to turn on and satisfy a man sexually.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I think a lot of the older guys responding, yes this kind of porn is harmless to you because it isn't affecting your already established view of women.

 

But if you look down to teenagers and children, they ARE being affected. I sometimes pay visits to a school and talk with the children; the boys and girls seperately. We were allowed to question them about sex.

 

Boys naturally at a young age like to bully and pick on girls anyway, but some of them had pretty savage and brutal opinions about women ranging from comments such as equal rights between men and women means that men should be able to hit women, (which I think negates the point of equal rights, the point is that no-one should be hit, not that everyone should be hit equally hard), condoms are not needed during sex and are boring, never going out with a girl if she refused to take the pill or have an implant, basically COMPLETE refusal of condoms, and when asked about the use of the female...'mothers and fun' lol the whole angel/whore epidemic.

 

However it is when you speak about sex that you learn so much. I am 20, I speak a lot about this with people my own age and younger. Of course many people have a healthy view of sex, and maybe I am prudish but I think its changing. If you see what people wear to clubs, how the men speak to girls in clubs (9 out of 10 clubbing experiences I have end in some kind of verbal threat/assault/attack i.e. give me your number or i'll hit you, gimme a kiss on the cheak or i'll hit you), the drinking games, the pole dancing - the whole thing, maybe its not my scene but its horrible! Also I will add violence to girls has increased. A local nightclub of mine (quite a nice area) regularly ends in not only drunk guys attracking each other, but a guy punching/slapping a girl on her own outside. This is now quite common. In fact just outside a supermarket the other day I saw a teenage boy punch a woman - again - nice area.

 

I am isolating negative examples BUT the point is, I didn't use to see this, my parents didn't use to see this, why are we seeing this now? Its not SOLELY pornographys fault, but sex is a mature part now of our culture and society so it seeps down to every level and like it or not porn culture affects the way men and women now dress, wear make-up, dance and look.

[Des]

I think a lot of the older guys responding, yes this kind of porn is harmless to you because it isn't affecting your already established view of women.

 

Well, I'm the same age as you. I don't feel this kind of porn has effected my view of women. I think it's going a bit far to suggest that if an impressionable teenage boy is exposed to it he will not see the difference of reality vs porn, and that he will go through his whole life treating women as sexual objects. He would never make it in this world like that. He would become an outcast to society.

 

If you see what people wear to clubs, how the men speak to girls in clubs (9 out of 10 clubbing experiences I have end in some kind of verbal threat/assault/attack i.e. give me your number or i'll hit you, gimme a kiss on the cheak or i'll hit you), the drinking games, the pole dancing - the whole thing, maybe its not my scene but its horrible! Also I will add violence to girls has increased. A local nightclub of mine (quite a nice area) regularly ends in not only drunk guys attracking each other, but a guy punching/slapping a girl on her own outside. This is now quite common. In fact just outside a supermarket the other day I saw a teenage boy punch a woman - again - nice area.

 

I don't think those examples are unique to any specific time or place. Men have always hit women, they've hit on women, they've assaulted or otherwise attacked them, drunk or sober. The scenes you're talking about have existed since before your time. You didn't see these things before because your eyes were not open to them, you were young. You must be hanging around with the some of wrong crowds, is all I can say. While I will agree that violence in a general sense is on the rise, and we are becoming more desensitized to it, I don't think pornography is to blame for you seeing drunken fights at a bar or women trying to draw attention to themselves. Can't say I've ever seen a guy attack a woman before, personally.

 

Its not SOLELY pornographys fault, but sex is a mature part now of our culture and society so it seeps down to every level and like it or not porn culture affects the way men and women now dress, wear make-up, dance and look.

 

But then again, we come from a very prudish background... at least, in terms of North America, specifically the United States. Others are, and have been more sexually open than most of us. Though I will agree about our culture becoming more "pornified" in ways. I have to say, no offense, the way some young women dress and appear "causally" these days, I find to be unnecessarily provocative and suggestive.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Des

[Jersey Shortie]

Mahatma:

I am not necessarily saying that. I am just saying that for sure the younger crowd is being negatively affected.

 

Okay, you already commented on what you felt about the younger crowd. What about grown men? Since you aren't necessarily saying that grown men aren't being affected. Otherwise, why would this porn even get made in the first place when it's grown legal men making it. And men often want women to do more acts or dress like things they see in porn.

 

And as a grown adult men, do you want to see young boys grown up with a mentality about sex and women that is often depicted in porn films? Because I got to tell you, it's not going to be women alone that are going to have a heavy impact how young boys view women. It's going to be with the help of how grown men view women too.

 

The others are right in saying women have been degraded since the beginning of time. However... it seems to me like it is more now than it was 10 or 15 years ago. I am only 19 so that is about as far back as I can look. Someone who is older should be able to see the change over time even more.

 

You can't really say whether the porn is the cause of that, or if it is the result.

 

I never said women haven't been degraded since teh beginning of time. Is that kind of sentence said to make it okay to degrade women? I am just baffled. It's easy for men to sit there and say "oh well, women always have been and always will be degraded" when are aren't a woman. As a woman, it's very hard and confusing because you want men to love and respect you but if this is men's atittutdes toward women, what the heck are we suppose to do?

 

I think porn is both the cause and the result. I think men feel less masculine today and inferior and take it out on women in porn, in some cases. And instead of doing the things that will really make men be men and feel like men, they take the short cut to something that makes them feel like a man for the two seconds it takes to get off to the never ending spread legged women on the internet.

[Jersey Shortie]

I'll go ahead and get this out of the way. Masculinity, shmasculinity. A socially conditioned concept. There is no "real" or "fake" man, just your idea of an ideal man, one who thinks, feels, and behaves to your liking. That has gotten so old, and it only works on insecure men. Biologically, I a male. End of story.

 

Of course biologically you are a male. But being a male and having true masculinity are two different things. And no, it's not a socially conditioned concept. It's even a concept that men hold for themselves on the things that either make them feel more of or less of a man. And that's true for women as well.

 

It may become more accepted over time, as everything does. But people felt the same way about regular old deep throat porn back when it was much more "taboo". Today everyone knows of it, and it didn't lead to the demoralization of society or the worlds end. Sure, it may continue to become the fantasy of more men, and more common to see in porn, but whether or not it will be accepted in the real world, will be up to women

.

 

Except I don't think the idea of being able to "deep throat" is meant to be demoralizing to women. The idea of hitting, slapping, holding her nose and making her chocke or vomit is. Do men even want to bring sexual pelasure to women anymore? Because hate to break your heart guys, but not one of these acts have anything to do with bringing women sexual pleasure. Ergo, these acts are all for your benefit turning the woman into a something that is less then nothing. As for what is to become accpeted in the real world, that is up to women and MEN. So spare me your idealogy of zero responsiblity for what you as a man allow to happen. What happens to society is both up to men and women. And men and women teach girls and boys how to act. So if you want to raise generations of boys who think it's normal to hit, spit and choke women..what is next? Punching? Giving black eyes? holding their nose until they pass out? If things like this are esculating, how much more will the esculate?

 

 

 

You are equating ones sexuality to the rest of their person. Most men still seek to protect women from real harm. Which is apart from what a consenting couple do in the bedroom to turn each other on, or what a man finds arousing to watch in the sense of fantasy. I don't feel the women in these video's need "protecting" from themselves and their own consent - You've consistently come up with ways to twist your argument into sounding like we're discussing actual rape and abuse.

 

I said nothing about rape. And we are talking about abuse. No one here is going to say that these movies aren't abusive.

 

I never said these women didn't agree to do what they are doing. But maybe the didn't. How many things in porn movies happen by the fly? Not everything is probably planned. one minute the girl just thinks she is giving a bj. the next thing she knows is she is getting her face spit on and her nose pinched. Do you honestly think that's something that is always dicussed before every movie? ANd hey, they did sign the waver already so they can still market the video. If you don't think that happens alot, you are ignorant about the world of porn and you buy into the fantasy.

 

As for what is considered "protecting" women and what is "real" hard, I don't think protecting women is just based on some physical act. And I don't think "real" harm only comes in the form of guns and atttacking bears.

 

There are many ways you can protect women. And many different kinds of "harm". Some harm is more obvious then othrs. porn's harm is far more insideous. And men today that rather maturbate to something that dehumanzies women, or exploit women, then protect them. At least that's how it seems today.

 

Who said anything about anyone "deserving" anything? You're obviously receiving a message that I've somehow missed.

 

Well that's just it, we don't deserve respect as women. And I get that message every day from men. And that's why it's been so hard for me lately to feel like I can form a connection with a man even though I really want to. Men just don't think women deserve respect or have any value beyond t&a.

 

 

But so what? People will do as they please, again, no one is being forced to do anything, and their private lives are their business.

 

Well no offense but it's real easy for you as aman to sit there and shrug your shoulders when it's not women making a billiong dollar industry based on your humilation. And when you want men to respect you but you clearly see that they don't see women in general as anything more then sperm recepticals.

 

I don't remember saying all men do it? It's a form of breath play really, I see it as part of the domination aspect.

 

That's because men are better then women and women are worthless.

 

. In this case, you've got to appreciate a woman who is so willing to turn on and satisfy a man sexually.

 

And that's all that matters. Because all that matters is that you as a man, and all the men out ther are satisified sexually. It doesn't matter wht the price is or what part women play in that as long as they make it happen in making a man satisified.

[Jersey Shortie]

Though I will agree about our culture becoming more "pornified" in ways. I have to say, no offense, the way some young women dress and appear "causally" these days, I find to be unnecessarily provocative and suggestive.

 

Why do you think women dress so "causually" these days? Because they want to feel sexy. They want attention and they want men to like them. What do men like? Well, men don't pay as much attention to nice girls wearing turtle necks and nice slacks. Men like nice bodies and pretty faces. They also like boobs and butts and they really like porn. They also really pay attention to girls who show off their bodies. See, he just checked out that girl in the mini skirt and halter top. If I dress like that, he will pay attention to me and maybe think I am pretty. Gee, maybe I hsould dress to show off the things men like and then maybe they will pay attention to me and maybe one will even want to get to know me....that's the general process of what goes on in a womans head when she wants to dress sexy and show off. She does it because she sees what men pay attention to, and then dressed to impress.

[ADF]

That's what I am saying too Mahatam. But not guys ever seem to want to address that.

 

 

 

So what? What does this have to do with anything I was saying?

 

Well, since this was a discussion about porn, I thought censorship might be relevant. It usually is. But I guess not to you.

 

 

 

How do you know how much of porn is the "over-whelming majority". enough is out there that we are able to carry on a more then few page thread where more then several men have admitted to liking this exact kind of porn. Is violent porn really a niche market or is it becoming bigger and bigger? It's been said by porn produces themselves that the demand for more graphic porn because stronger and stronger. The mere fact that we are even discussing this type of porn is proof enough that someamount of men are infact conditioning themselves to respond to something that is pretty disturbting. And i suspect that will only get worse considering the level of young kids today that have access to the internet and the increase in these kind of things.

 

I know because porn is a multi-billion dollar a year business, and violent porn is a tiny segment of what is available. If you doubt this, take a walk down to local adult book/video store. You'll see what a tiny percentage of the total inventory the kind of porn you are describing is.

 

 

 

 

It SHOULD offend you. That's how porn projects men too, not just "anti-porn Crusaders". (I do love though that if your anti-porn, pro-porn users love to make you sound like your a nut job just because you think there is someting wrong with porn). Anytime I have seen a porn the men do apear brutish, dominate, not worried about the woman or her pleasure. Oh sure she is moaning like a train wreck but there is nothing there that is about bringing real pleasure to women. You should be offended. But you should als obe offended at how porn protrays men.

 

But we men--at least for the most part--are not offended by it. We are not offended because we know porn has nothing to do with real life. I don't form my ideas about human relations from watching porn. Practically no one does.

 

 

 

Is it? Is that why so man ywomen struggle with coming home and seeing their man zoned out infront of the tv or internet or so many lie about their porn use and "sneak it" or that porn is a billion dollar industry where more men today, more then ever before in history spend time viewing it?

 

Here's a fact: ALL MEN LOOK AT PORN. All men. The ones who "sneak" it ought to stop letting people shame them for what a perfectly normal, harmless interest in erotica. I have the right to decide for myself what to read, what to view and what to think, and I will not surrender that right to anyone. Not even you.

 

 

 

I think there is more thetn a "small subset of men for whom porn is a problem'. Porn has become somethign that you can now get in the privacy of your home, that you don't have to pay for or be held accountable for. Porn is a much bigger probelm then you or other men want to admit to themselves. This country isn't just fat on bad food. And to think that we are a anation that can't control our food intake but can control our porn intake is absurd. I infact think porn is a deeper set issue for the fact that its now cheap, free, and easy to get on levels that it was never before. Infact, talk to any relationship councelor or physcologists and they wil ltell you that they have seen an increase in relationships dysfuctions due to porn in the last 10 years.

 

I repeat: it is none of your (or anyone else's) business what people read, look at, or think.

 

 

 

well consider that most of the nation is obese, and porn has no physical affects and is free and easily hidden in the privacy of your home, I think it's a bigger threat then are fat country.

 

What threat? That guys are watching porn and being driven to masturbate. If you see that as some kind of social "problem" you've led a very sheltered life.

[Jersey Shortie]

What threat? That guys are watching porn and being driven to masturbate. If you see that as some kind of social "problem" you've led a very sheltered life.

 

If you don't see it as a social problem, you're the one living the sheltered life.

[Mahatma]

Okay, you already commented on what you felt about the younger crowd. What about grown men? Since you aren't necessarily saying that grown men aren't being affected. Otherwise, why would this porn even get made in the first place when it's grown legal men making it. And men often want women to do more acts or dress like things they see in porn.

 

And as a grown adult men, do you want to see young boys grown up with a mentality about sex and women that is often depicted in porn films? Because I got to tell you, it's not going to be women alone that are going to have a heavy impact how young boys view women. It's going to be with the help of how grown men view women too.

 

 

 

I never said women haven't been degraded since teh beginning of time. Is that kind of sentence said to make it okay to degrade women? I am just baffled. It's easy for men to sit there and say "oh well, women always have been and always will be degraded" when are aren't a woman. As a woman, it's very hard and confusing because you want men to love and respect you but if this is men's atittutdes toward women, what the heck are we suppose to do?

 

I think porn is both the cause and the result. I think men feel less masculine today and inferior and take it out on women in porn, in some cases. And instead of doing the things that will really make men be men and feel like men, they take the short cut to something that makes them feel like a man for the two seconds it takes to get off to the never ending spread legged women on the internet.

 

1 - Grown men aren't affected the same way or at the same rate (given that they have already established their sex norm). Still though, if a guy watches enough hardcore porn, it WILL start to sway his thoughts about sex. This can be swayed back again the same way though. With younger guys, if their base idea of sex was this hardcore sex, then it will be much more difficult to change. I can identify the difference between fake porn (where the girl is ACTING like she likes it) and the porn where the girl really is enjoying herself (at least she is not in serious pain).

 

2 - No. Not much else to say about that. I do not want to see guys do what they are starting to see in porn.

 

3 - I completely disagree that THIS is the reason for hardcore porn. Hardcore porn sells because it is raunchy. Guys are dominant, they like to see domination.

 

If you train yourself to get off on domination instead of sex, then watching regular sex will not do it. As time goes on, the domination must increase. At first all you need is a little spanking and hair pulling. Next you need some head grabbing oral. Next you need the forceful gagging oral. Next the throwing up.... etc.

 

 

Another point I would like to make that does not really relate to the rest is this:

 

I think cheating is completely wrong. I would never cheat, and I would break up with my girlfriend if she cheated. However, the whole cheating porn, "sharing wife" porn, girl's friend and all that turns me on. I understand that it is wrong in reality though. If a young guy watches porn where some guy is having sex with his girlfriend's friend, and he starts to become infatuated with that, then this becomes his norm. If I watch it, it does not become my norm because I understand it is wrong.

[Jersey Shortie]

I just see alot of justifications for something you and alot of men like. You're a man right? Of course you like viewing porn. Young women with perfect bodies are the epitome of what all men want. No matter if they already have a woman, no matter her age, or body. What matters is your a man and you have the option and accessablity to view as much porn as you deem will make you happy.

 

It doesn't come at your expense. It comes at the expense of women who think men care to respect them and care to love them and care to remain true to the relationship. The message is that women, quite honestly, are nothing. This is the reaccuring message. Women in general are just sperm recepticals as how men see fit to use. And women shuold be happy with the small scraps of favors men throw their way. And hey, women don't deserve to be respected, they deserve to be degraded, dehumanined and dominated because they are *just* women and it's been happening since the dawn of time.

 

That's your core message. Except you do think it affects young boys but fail to want to acknowledge how it has affected grown men. Men well into their 40s and 50s that didn't grow up with computers develop a love for porn as well. But again, women are nothing. Replacable. Interchangable. Only worth their ability for a man to get off too. We deserve to be called nameds. Smacked around. Choked. Gag. And that's all okay because men want to exert their dominace and it should come at hte cost of women. Not at the cost of men. So thank God that you were made a man and live in a world that caters to you. You men like to complain about how hard you have it but you have no idea what it's like trying to trust men and have respect for them when men continue to show you they have no rsepect for you as a woman. Because you are clearly jsut a thing to be used and discarded.

[Des]

Of course biologically you are a male. But being a male and having true masculinity are two different things. And no, it's not a socially conditioned concept. It's even a concept that men hold for themselves on the things that either make them feel more of or less of a man. And that's true for women as well.

 

It's a concept, that's all, one I don't prescribe myself to. I don't sit around dwelling on it, ever. It doesn't much matter to me what anyone thinks "makes a man". It seems so silly to me.

 

Except I don't think the idea of being able to "deep throat" is meant to be demoralizing to women.

 

not one of these acts have anything to do with bringing women sexual pleasure. Ergo, these acts are all for your benefit turning the woman into a something that is less then nothing.

 

As for what is to become accpeted in the real world, that is up to women and MEN. So spare me your idealogy of zero responsiblity for what you as a man allow to happen.

 

But some women do find deep throating to be demeaning towards women. Usually the more radical ones, like yourself.

 

Deep throat in itself, is not meant to bring pleasure to women either. And apparently, you're missing the whole part about the dom/sub aspect that you dismissed with no reasoning earlier.

 

You are wildly misinterpreting what I am trying to say here. All I'm saying is, men will see it in porn, it will turn them on, it might become a fantasy and desire to do it in the real world. But the women will decide whether or not it is done, they will find it either acceptable or unacceptable. Without their participation it doesn't take place, it doesn't become accepted or the norm in the real world, outside of fantasy.

 

How many things in porn movies happen by the fly? Not everything is probably planned. one minute the girl just thinks she is giving a bj. the next thing she knows is she is getting her face spit on and her nose pinched. Do you honestly think that's something that is always dicussed before every movie?

 

I'd say most know what it is all about before hand, maybe not discussed, but they know if they are at all familiar with the nature of the porn industry. Regular bj movies barely exist in porn anymore, and rarely does "regular" deep throat either. In today's porn, the majority of anything bj or deep throat pretty much implies forced deep throat and gagging. Hence why you can't google "deep throat" porn these days without every other result emphasizing the gagging aspect.

 

Well that's just it, we don't deserve respect as women. And I get that message every day from men. And that's why it's been so hard for me lately to feel like I can form a connection with a man even though I really want to. Men just don't think women deserve respect or have any value beyond t&a.

 

Sorry to hear that. You obviously have a lot of bottled up anger towards men that you come here to vent, as it seems the majority of your posts have to do with their every fault and shortcoming as a species. You have to realize how radical your thinking is, considering almost no one agrees with all of your crazy generalizations and opinions as you slam men in every thread for every single reason imaginable. Have you ever considered dating women?

 

That's because men are better then women and women are worthless.

 

I'm starting to think you actually feel that way. Though I know you're implying "all men think ___ ", which you know isn't the case.

 

And that's all that matters. Because all that matters is that you as a man, and all the men out ther are satisified sexually. It doesn't matter wht the price is or what part women play in that as long as they make it happen in making a man satisified.

 

Your radical is going off again. Did I say that was all that mattered? Nope, that was you to the rescue with your negative spin.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Des

[Mahatma]

Jersey, apparently you are not reading what I have said. I did say it effects both. I was trying to agree with you, but you are just bent on disagreeing with everyone.

 

It does affect older guys too, I was just saying it was more serious for younger men.

[Jersey Shortie]

But some women do find deep throating to be demeaning towards women. Usually the more radical ones, like yourself.

 

Let me ask you something Des. Why do you think I am radical? Because I am stunned that there is porn out there that alot of men get off to that is about hitting and choking women? And that's not "radical"? Or that's a good kind of "radical" and how dare someone like me find that completely dysfunctional without it having to mean I am "radical" or have "hang-ups". That's a ridiculous assertion to make.

 

 

Deep throat in itself, is not meant to bring pleasure to women either. And apparently, you're missing the whole part about the dom/sub aspect that you dismissed with no reasoning earlier.

 

Yeap. So men get off on sexual acts that aren't meant to and don't bring any sexual pleasure to women. That sums it up. And I am not missing the whole dom/sub aspect. You want to overide the serious of the issue and not address the humilation of women because men get pleasure from it. No man in his right mind would stand for men to be so hugely debased on a billiong dollar industry that women got off to reuglarly. But you know what? Women don't want to call men names and treat them like they are worthless while they are mastubating. That's something men seem to liek to do. Oh but that's right, men *really do* resepct women. Right. I guess respect is when a man lets you in the same room with him to use you as a recepcitcal.

 

You are wildly misinterpreting what I am trying to say here. All I'm saying is, men will see it in porn, it will turn them on, it might become a fantasy and desire to do it in the real world. But the women will decide whether or not it is done, they will find it either acceptable or unacceptable. Without their participation it doesn't take place, it doesn't become accepted or the norm in the real world, outside of fantasy.

 

Women have their part. I don't argue that. But the equation we have here is everyday men are getting ideas from porn, something based on "fantasy" that is suppose to be extreme then conjuling or asking their partners to do these things. That's the equation. And women will do it because maybe it does turn them on, or maybe they think it should and they just want to make their partner happy. But please do a survey and ask how many women want to be choked, spit on or made to be nothing and I can't think of most women that would be happy with any man wanting to treat her that way. And that's just it, men are seeing these images and they are turning it into expectations for what should be done in the bedroom. And that's plain scarey.

 

I'd say most know what it is all about before hand, maybe not discussed, but they know if they are at all familiar with the nature of the porn industry. Regular bj movies barely exist in porn anymore, and rarely does "regular" deep throat either. In today's porn, the majority of anything bj or deep throat pretty much implies forced deep throat and gagging. Hence why you can't google "deep throat" porn these days without every other result emphasizing the gagging aspect.

 

You are proving my point for me if that's the truth. That says something about men who are the majority of porn consumers and their views on women. Women don't deserve to be anything but something to be gaggin, chocked and used. What you should said, proves my point.

 

 

Sorry to hear that. You obviously have a lot of bottled up anger towards men that you come here to vent, as it seems the majority of your posts have to do with their every fault and shortcoming as a species. You have to realize how radical your thinking is, considering almost no one agrees with all of your crazy generalizations and opinions as you slam men in every thread for every single reason imaginable. Have you ever considered dating women?

 

You would have bottled up anger yourself if you lived in a world where men wanted to and enjoyed choking, spitting on, hitting and pinching a girls nose just so he could get off. And you want to talk about anger? Porn films are FILLED with male anger and domination towards women. These acts aren't done out of rsepect or kindness or happiness. They are done out of misygnoy.

 

My thinking is radical because I think it's completely f-ed in the head that this is becoming the norm????????? WHAT? Are you crazy? Seriously. And I am slaming men? why? Because I am disturbed that there is a trend to hardcore graphic porn that is meant to humilate and use women? But I am the one slamming men? What a load of BS Des. Seriously. Huge load of bs you are tryign to sell there. You want to point the finger at me and say I am radical and angry and slamming men? What about the movies you described/ Those are angry, and radical and slamming towards women. But that's okay right? Because you get to masturbate to it so that makes it okay. It's okay to call women four letter words and spit in their faces but it's not okay to question what men are like today because of what their increasing porn concsumption has become? You aren't making much sense here Des. And my"anger" , isn't so much anger but just disappointment and saddness that men view women like we are worthless and deserve to be nothing but sperm recepitcals and that if we feel upset about it or question men for it, we are someone how "radical" or "prudes". You're logic isn't fair and it's quite wrong. You feel slighted by my comments here about men because I question them and how they reall yfeel about women? Try living with a billion dollar industry that's all about how you don't measure up as a woman, how you have to have implants, be 18 and now apparently have to take a dick deep in your throat until you puke on yourself to be sexy. You want to talk about something that humilates and degrads a gender and is "slamming " towards a gender. Lets talk about that. Don't you dare slam me because I am upset about what I see here or what I see men defending for themselves and what men are infact becoming, as YOU yourself said, with all this porn consumption. That just really sits in m ycraw that you dare try to tell me that I am in the wrong and making men look bad when I am just stating the facts and question how men really feel about women for it.

 

 

I'm starting to think you actually feel that way. Though I know you're implying "all men think ___ ", which you know isn't the case.

 

I do. Men think they are better then women. It sucks and it doesn't bare alot of kindness to women but that's clearly the case because men are powerful and strong and women are meant to take their spit, smacks and other abuse they want to heep on them for their seuxal pleasure. So hey you win Des. You and the other guys. you are a man and you are wonderful and women? They are just here to take your sperm and be quite. Right? That's what a male fantasy is after all. That's all men want women to be. That's what men deeply desire. That's what's reflected in porn. Men are better then women, and this makes men happy and they can keep smacking, spitting and hitting women to get off. Yay!

 

 

Your radical is going off again. Did I say that was all that mattered? Nope, that was you to the rescue with your negative spin.

 

I love you keep calling me radical and you have yet to acknowledge the etreme nature of the porn we are talking about as "radical". Or you awnt to pretend it's positive or doesn't matter. If you were a woman you wouldn't feel that way. You have no idea how hard it is trying to trust men and love them to only see how they really feel about women reflected in things like porn, the things they choose to defend and hold up to the eptiome of male desire.

 

Mahatama

Jersey, apparently you are not reading what I have said. I did say it effects both. I was trying to agree with you, but you are just bent on disagreeing with everyone.

 

It does affect older guys too, I was just saying it was more serious for younger men.

 

My understanding from your posts was that it was okay for grown men to view whatever they wanted even if it was humilating to women and that they might be affected by it but they are grown men so it's still okay.

[Jersey Shortie]

I really dont' get it. What is so hard for you men to understand why it's hurtful and painful to realize that there is an increasing demand for porn that is all about treating women liek the are worthless. And these aren't acts designed to bring women pleasure. These are acts designed to just humilate and use. What do you expect? How do you want women to feel? Happy? Glad that you at least aren't kicking us in the teeth? How bad do things have to get before men say "enough"? When women start getting black and blue eyes in porn and that starts turning men on? It doesn't seem like we are too far from that. Don't women have enough to worry about about your expectations? Isn't bad enough that there are already pornified streotypes that women try to fit into with fake boobs and having to remain the perfect age. Now we are suppose to respect men oro think men respect us when men want to see us spit on and choked? I don't get it. How the heck to you think women shuold feel living in this kind of world where the men in their own lives are suppose to be loving and rsepecting them and they are really getting off on women being spit on and hit. It really just makes no sense to me and it's commpletely breaking my spirit down here. This kind of porn sucks the life out of you even discussing it. I can't imagine what it does to those of you who view it. It's just so heartbreaking. And the thing is, most of you guys just don't care. Because you will continue to masturbate to what you want and you don't care what the price women pay for it.

[Juniper22]

Well to me, there is a difference between acting out some forms of dom/sub types of sexual roles, and enjoying it, than some who DO NOT enjoy it.

 

There are many women I've seen that look like they DO NOT enjoy it. I've seen some women who try real hard to look like they are when really they are probably not.

 

Please shove your fist up my (whatever) and stretch it beyond its means.

Please shove your d*ck down my throat, until I gag, can't breathe, and almost throw up on you. Please shove weird objects up my tail end and play tag team with about 5 different men. Because I have very low self worth, I think very little of myself and that is why I get involved in these kinds of movies/relationships and with these kinds of people. becasue they think little of themselves as well."

 

Thats what runs through my mind when I've seen SOME of those women in certain kinds of porn. And yeah you're right it is their choice. Choices based on low self worth.

 

[Des]

Well to me, there is a difference between acting out some forms of dom/sub types of sexual roles, and enjoying it, than some who DO NOT enjoy it.

 

There are many women I've seen that look like they DO NOT enjoy it. I've seen some women who try real hard to look like they are when really they are probably not.

 

I too have seen a few instances where it was obvious the woman was hating it, and just wanted it to stop. I don't enjoy seeing that. It makes me wonder too, why they would shoot something like that with a woman who was hating it, and why she wouldn't just say "enough".

 

However, I believe there a big difference between that, and the majority of porn. Although some would argue, that is the majority of porn. That I have to disagree with.

[Jersey Shortie]

Please shove your fist up my (whatever) and stretch it beyond its means.

Please shove your d*ck down my throat, until I gag, can't breathe, and almost throw up on you. Please shove weird objects up my tail end and play tag team with about 5 different men. Because I have very low self worth, I think very little of myself and that is why I get involved in these kinds of movies/relationships and with these kinds of people. becasue they think little of themselves as well."

 

Thats what runs through my mind when I've seen SOME of those women in certain kinds of porn. And yeah you're right it is their choice. Choices based on low self worth.

 

I would add that also the men that can do these things and get off on them have low self worth too. Obviously men and women don't always feel a lack of self worth in the same ways. So men who feel the need to dominate and humilate women so dishumanly, have a lacking of feelings of self worth too.

 

And again, I will repeat because this comment ALWAYS gets ignored. It comes down to the basic message that women are nothing and deserve nothing but to be used and tossed aside. But hey ithat's good right guys? You don't have to deal with ANY media industry that display YOU as a man so freaking disheartenigly, degradingly, and dishumanly, as the porn industry often and easliy displays women. So what does it say about men? And what does it say about women? And how men feel about women? Because to me, the message time and time again is women are worthless and aren't as good as men and deserve to be slapped, choked and spit on. What's next? Punched , kicked? If these things have esculated to a point where it use to just be bjs being given now it's all about choking the girl, what's next guys? Please do tell. How many men here would like to see themselves treated and depicted in the same manner women are in porn? Seriously. I dare ANY man to answer that and not this bs "well there is porn where men are domianted". That's not the NORM. How women men feel if it was? And if it was your wives and girlfriends and daughters and sisters and mothers that were sitting around getting off on men being nothing, being worthless, being dispresected repeatidly. I think these are questions that no man is going to dare to answer. But I hope that someone takes the time to answer each and every question I answered here directly, no shmmooosing and trying to defend porn again. How would YOU as a man feel if the women in your life thought men deserved to be slapped, spit on used, choked and mocked?

 

And I will ASK AGAIN, how the heck do you expect women to feel or think of men seeing how men like to see women treated? SHould we be happy that atleast you are beating us to death? Should we be happy that you like demeaning women? SHOuld we really trust that you respect women? Come on guys, why don't you try being honest with yourselves.

[Ross PK]

Oh yay a porn topic, ha!

 

I wasn't sure what to title this, I almost put, "Is this the new porn?" But, chose not too, because its probably nothing new.

 

Anyway I'm not a huge fan of it, BUT I do watch it sometimes with the guy I'm seeing. So before we go any further, lets get it clear that no where did I say I didn't hate it, nor love it. So no on need to come on here saying, "Well since you don't like porn," but yes, there are some I enjoy better than other kinds.

 

Anyway the guy I'm seeing, we were watching some the other evening together. Alot of what he has been going to, and showing me, are women who are gagging, I mean like almost throwing up gagging, giving BJ's. The other thing I notice is, where men are not only smacking them in the face, but on the boobs as well. Just hit them on the boobs hard like they are just a piece of fatty tissue! The bad part is some of these women are clearly trying to enjoy it, but you can tell they aren't. Maybe they are so high they are not even aware of whats going on. Seen many that look like that as well.

 

Now on to the next part. Yes I know alot of its "acting" and have seen the ones that "act" but some of these people look like they are really serious with their hitting in the faces and boobs. And I'm not meaning a little pop. Some of these thing I have seen I get a bad erie feeling about. Others don't seem so bad. Its like you can tell who is acting and who might be taking it a little to far.

 

So is the gagging till almost throwing up, boob and face smacking the new "in" thing? How many of you men are into this?

 

I asked the guy I was seeing if he was into this that he was watching? He said "maybe" I said well guess what, if you hold my head, to the point of where I can't pull away and at least breathe and I was gagging really bad until I almost got sick if I gave you a BJ, or smacked my boobs or face, you'd be picking your teeth up off the ground!

 

I don't like those kinds of things in porn either, I also don't like seeing women spit on a guy's **** or another woman's *****, and I don't like anal. I just find all these things to be a complete turn off. I guess since I'm a guy that might make me weird. But I'm not saying they're wrong, and I'm not a prude, I'd really love to experiment in the bedroom and have sex a lot if I had the opportunity.

[Des]

Let me ask you something Des. Why do you think I am radical?

 

Because the majority of your posts that I've seen, *not just this thread*, are mostly of radical, negative outlandish opinions and assertions of men, no matter what the discussion is about. You sound not unlike a typical "modern feminist" in the way that you speak of men and find error in every aspect, often giving your view on how they "should" behave, in society. You take things and blow them way out of proportion to somehow indicate that everything points back to men thinking "women are nothing". Crazy talk.

 

You've made it clear that you are strictly anti-porn, that you think men watching porn, getting off to it, or otherwise fantasizing, no matter what kind of porn, is entirely dysfunctional and is leading to the breakdown of society. You think men watch porn to prove they are men. That is radical.

 

So men get off on sexual acts that aren't meant to and don't bring any sexual pleasure to women. That sums it up. And I am not missing the whole dom/sub aspect. You want to overide the serious of the issue

 

Yes, bjs, deep throat, whatever you want to call it, was it ever an act intended to bring sexual pleasure to the woman? Guys shouldn't enjoy deep throat because it's a one sided pleasure? And how am I overriding the seriousness of the issue, by explaining how this is dom/sub play and not "abuse" for the sake of hating women?

 

No man in his right mind would stand for men to be so hugely debased on a billiong dollar industry that women got off to reuglarly.

 

If female domination in porn would get big with women, it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

And women will do it because maybe it does turn them on, or maybe they think it should and they just want to make their partner happy.

 

And there's something wrong with women doing it for those reasons?

 

And that's just it, men are seeing these images and they are turning it into expectations for what should be done in the bedroom.

 

*and women. I would agree with you if men actually "expected" it, or thought it "should" be done in bedroom. But that is entirely false. Instead, men don't expect it, and only see it something they could try, given the consent of their partner. I've heard of women showing interest in it too, it's not just men.

 

You are proving my point for me if that's the truth. That says something about men who are the majority of porn consumers and their views on women. Women don't deserve to be anything but something to be gaggin, chocked and used. What you should said, proves my point.

 

I was just speaking about the porn that's out there. You are taking the existence of such porn, to somehow mean that all men hate women or think they're "just for" this or that. More crazy talk.

 

Porn films are FILLED with male anger and domination towards women. These acts aren't done out of rsepect or kindness or happiness. They are done out of misygnoy.

 

Why do you take it personally? Porn is not meant to be taken personally or seriously on that kind of level. This porn involves no real anger or distaste for women, it is nothing against them personally in terms of the real world. It's role playing, fantasy... It is male domination in the sense of the sex itself, and the "attitude" in which it is approached. Any anger is false, only thrown in to spice it up.

 

I do.

 

It sucks and it doesn't bare alot of kindness to women but that's clearly the case because men are powerful and strong and women are meant to take their spit, smacks and other abuse.

 

you are a man and you are wonderful and women? They are just here to take your sperm and be quite. Right? That's what a male fantasy is after all. That's all men want women to be. That's what men deeply desire.

 

Well I disagree with you, women aren't inferior to men. So what if men are "strong" or can assume a dominant position in a sexual act? The same can be said for women.

 

... and more crazy talk.

 

I love you keep calling me radical and you have yet to acknowledge the etreme nature of the porn we are talking about as "radical". Or you awnt to pretend it's positive or doesn't matter.

 

I've already acknowledged it, and most people don't have such a reaction to it as you seem to. Most women don't go on long rants about how all men must hate women because this type of porn exists.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Des