Natural Hair in the workplace

[TwinkletOes26]

Ohhh, you take the knots out! I only saw the first part of that clip and thought you meant going to work like that, which is why I said it was a "young" style.

 

So I went back and look at the rest of the video. The spiral curls the bantu knots create are pretty, and if you don't then style your hair in the various sticking-out ponytails she suggest, you'll be fine.

 

 

ok LOL i was wondering if yall didnt get what i was talking about. I thought you left them like that too when i first heard about them...all you ladies should try it its not just for ethnic women....i told yall i learned this technique from a blond hair blue eyed girl on youtube.Then i later found out bantu knots was what the aa community calls them lol...but try them one weekend your hair is curly with no heat. Just make sure to spray with hair spray so they stay better. LOADS of anti frizz stuff if your hair frizzes up a lot

[sb129]

Yeah but really successful AND frikkin cool companies like google don't even bother with image and hire the core important staff based on ninja abilities in their field.

 

 

Lol.

 

They aren't the majority though are they?

 

Seriously though, it depends on your field.

 

Most people end up in fields that don't require them to change their image that much from what they would normally look like, because certain fields attract certain kinds of people.

And alot of the training you get before you start in said field helps you realise what sort of image you are required to have.

[Rudderless]

Lol.

 

They aren't the majority though are they?

 

Seriously though, it depends on your field.

 

Most people end up in fields that don't require them to change their image that much from what they would normally look like, because certain fields attract certain kinds of people.

And alot of the training you get before you start in said field helps you realise what sort of image you are required to have.

 

Yep you're right, if your company has to have an image for it's clients then it's a good idea to be presentable. If your clients are internet users and you never see them well... hiring a brilliant computer scientist with an image is like trying to hire a spaceship for the day.

 

First tech company I worked for wanted everyone to work in a suit. They went under... go figure.

[laRubiaBonita]

well at first glance- i would take someone in a suit more seriously than someone in jeans and a t-shirt in a corporate setting.

 

that is just the first impression, which some people cannot get over, especially if the people do not know the other person except for by look.

 

it depends on the job though....

[Els]

Exactly you need to be a pretty person to make it in corporate north america. The discrimination is not just against black people with long hair, but against everyone who is not pretty.

 

I was wondering when he'd show up.

[MissJoness]

A bantu knot is not natural. It's a form of hairstyle. It's like wondering why a caucasian person can't progress within the corporate world with a mohawk haircut or glowing, lime green hair.

 

It's not about straight or curly, although curly tends to look less conservative and sleek. It's about hairSTYLE and conservatism.

 

Another example is, say someone wears a shirt and shorts to work. Someone else wears an elegant suit. The two are equal in all other ways, including intelligence, looks, business savvy, etc. The person in the suit, is more likely to be promoted, if that's the image the corporation wants to present to the world. It is what it is.

Do you know how damaging chemical relaxers are to minorities with tightly coiled hair? Tightly coiled hair/curly hair are TWO totally different textures. Caucasion hair that is wavy/curly can be straightened easier than one who has 4a/b coarse textured hair. Relaxers cause the hair to break off/fall off. So black women have to go nearly bald just to keep up with those who are born with naturally finer textured hair

[Star Gazer]

maybe its just those of us who have been in the workforce for a number years who get it?

 

bingo!!!!!

[2sure]

To say that some women are more successful professionally because of their hairstyle is racist...it has nothing to do with race.

 

The hairstyle you have, the way you dress, your body decor, the bag you carry...are all parts of an image you have chosen to project.

 

You may choose a natural image, a polished image, an ethnic image, a republican image, a green image, a geek image ....whatever the hell you want.

 

BUT. You will have more success professionally if the image of yourself you have created matches what is generally accepted in your chosen field of employment.

 

If a person with , for example, multiple visible tattoos is picked over for a person with no visible tattoos for say, a position as director of customer service for a senior citizen based insurance company.....

 

Calling it unfair or racist that the employer is catering to its own market isnt going to get you the job. To say the least.

 

Likewise, someone with no make-up and a pony tail would likely be chosen over a person with full on make-up , a blow out , and a coach briefcase for a position with a nutrition co.

 

Market yourself and your image for the position you want. Job seekers need to offer the complete package - skills, education, and image.

[TwinkletOes26]

Do you know how damaging chemical relaxers are to minorities with tightly coiled hair? Tightly coiled hair/curly hair are TWO totally different textures. Caucasion hair that is wavy/curly can be straightened easier than one who has 4a/b coarse textured hair. Relaxers cause the hair to break off/fall off. So black women have to go nearly bald just to keep up with those who are born with naturally finer textured hair

 

thank you..thats why i dont understand why someone would throw a fit is a black woman wore her natural hair texture. Prime example of why corporate america needs more diversity in upper management. Not just minorities women as well.

[TwinkletOes26]

To say that some women are more successful professionally because of their hairstyle is racist...it has nothing to do with race.

 

The hairstyle you have, the way you dress, your body decor, the bag you carry...are all parts of an image you have chosen to project.

 

You may choose a natural image, a polished image, an ethnic image, a republican image, a green image, a geek image ....whatever the hell you want.

 

BUT. You will have more success professionally if the image of yourself you have created matches what is generally accepted in your chosen field of employment.

 

If a person with , for example, multiple visible tattoos is picked over for a person with no visible tattoos for say, a position as director of customer service for a senior citizen based insurance company.....

 

Calling it unfair or racist that the employer is catering to its own market isnt going to get you the job. To say the least.

 

Likewise, someone with no make-up and a pony tail would likely be chosen over a person with full on make-up , a blow out , and a coach briefcase for a position with a nutrition co.

 

Market yourself and your image for the position you want. Job seekers need to offer the complete package - skills, education, and image.

 

Yes but the woman with a blow out probably has a loose hair texture than i do. You can make natural aa hair look nice and neat. Its just doesnt look caucasian bc its not caucasian hair. The irritation comes from the idea that caucasian hair is the ideal and that everyone should have it bc its the best. When its not no hair texture is better its just what is. Thats what part of the issue is.

[EarthGirl]

To say that some women are more successful professionally because of their hairstyle is racist...it has nothing to do with race.

 

The hairstyle you have, the way you dress, your body decor, the bag you carry...are all parts of an image you have chosen to project.

 

You may choose a natural image, a polished image, an ethnic image, a republican image, a green image, a geek image ....whatever the hell you want.

 

BUT. You will have more success professionally if the image of yourself you have created matches what is generally accepted in your chosen field of employment.

 

If a person with , for example, multiple visible tattoos is picked over for a person with no visible tattoos for say, a position as director of customer service for a senior citizen based insurance company.....

 

Calling it unfair or racist that the employer is catering to its own market isnt going to get you the job. To say the least.

 

Likewise, someone with no make-up and a pony tail would likely be chosen over a person with full on make-up , a blow out , and a coach briefcase for a position with a nutrition co.

 

Market yourself and your image for the position you want. Job seekers need to offer the complete package - skills, education, and image.

 

It is ok I guess for certain companies to appreciate someone with a more laid back look, even retro or hippie, whatever...cause they may be a laid back company with a "cool" or natural image...That just makes sense. Likewise a very high profile financial or real estate company or something may prefer their employees to be more "polished"...to be goodlooking but to not dress provocatively etc...Some companies let their employees wear jeans or sweats, cause they just don't care, but it's natural that there are certain situations in our society where people need to be dressed appropriately and somewhat formal. That all makes sense, wether it's "right" or not is another matter, but it's certainly not against the law and it's understandable.

 

The problem is WHAT do you consider "appropriate" or "formal". There is actually no scientific basis for someone to say that straight hair looks more professional than curly hair..again excluding any jobs where hair needs to be pulled back for safety reasons. There IS no reason except your own narrow perception and probably your own background and culture.

 

Being that for black women with a certain texture to their hair it is obviously a lot of trouble to make their hair straight, which is not it's natural state...Ms. Jones even told us that relaxing hair frequently can cause some black women to lose their hair.

 

Do you really think it's fair to ask a person who was born one way, the way God made them..to change simply because God made someone else a different way, and because of your background and culture it is considered more "professional looking".

 

The issue really is of some groups of people wether in the business world or not, considering straighter more caucasion looking hair the default...when really there IS no default, there are just different types of hair period. If a woman, whatever race she is, comes in to work with curly but neat and well groomed hair or if she chooses to wear her hair in an ethnic style that is not distracting to anybody...it's just kind of bizarre and wrong for a superior to tell her that she needs to change what God gave her and be someone that she's not.

 

The reason it is racism is simply because black people have a distinctly different kind of hair than most of us caucasions. Some caucasions have really curly, course, and sometimes frizzy hair..sometimes people of celtic descent will have huge red fro's really, or blonde or brunette ones, even though others have completely straight and fine hair...some people of Jewish descent have really curly hair. And some white people struggle enormously trying to straighten their hair too and fit in, if they feel they or someone they want to approve of them would prefer them with straight hair. But even so, from what I've heard it is especially difficult to deal with African hair, at least when trying to mold it into something that looks just like caucasion hair.

 

So it's racism because it is basically saying that -the way God made you is not good enough, we want you to conform to the way God made US.

 

Like I said I am not one to shout racism often, not because I don't believe in equality but because I like to think through things. I am white and I don't have a chip on my shoulder, nor any valid reason to have one ...at least about anything having to do with racial discrimination. I have other chips, but nothing to do with this.

 

But I just don't understand how anyone can say that this is NOT racism.

[EarthGirl]

Yes but the woman with a blow out probably has a loose hair texture than i do. You can make natural aa hair look nice and neat. Its just doesnt look caucasian bc its not caucasian hair. The irritation comes from the idea that caucasian hair is the ideal and that everyone should have it bc its the best. When its not no hair texture is better its just what is. Thats what part of the issue is.

 

Well said. That is exactly what I'm saying, Twinkle, only you said it more succinctly than I did. I'm sorry I must have skipped over your last post or else we were posting at the same time.

 

It's great if a black woman WANTS to have straight hair. And it does not mean she is not proud of being a black woman. I'm not sure about this but I've heard (late night informercials and stuff-I have trouble with insomnia) that products for relaxing and straightening hair are getting better these days. But that is not the point, the point is also...besides the race stuff..that grown people, both women and men, should get to do with their own body (which includes hair) what they want, even at their job...excluding wearing things that are inappropriate or dangerous for their particular job.

 

It's true that there are certain conventions and traditions in certain businesses and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Beyond keeping good hygene and not dressing too skimpy, certain cultures within our culture have their own expectations. Of course if I needed to hire a lawyer or something, I would not be comfortable if he came in to meet me wearing a pair of cut off jeans and a Tie died T-shirt. I just think that there are lines that can be crossed unfortunately that should not be crossed...If you're a fashion model then your boss gets to tell you what hair cut to have...otherwise the hair on your own head is your own business.

[Isolde]

I've seen AA women wear their hair in a couple ways that looked professional while still retaining their natural texture:

 

*Thin braids gathered into a ponytail or twisted up

*A rather short (couple inches long) curly style

*Loosely relaxed (not stick straight) hair worn half-up or up

 

I'm sure you can find a compromise that works for you.

[TwinkletOes26]

isolde yes those styles you speak of are what people called textlax...where you dont straighten completely but you striaghten enough to loosen the curl pattern. Now this can be done but once you have relaxed you hair straight you have to cut it off and start all over again b4 you can do that. I have my hair relaxed bc I personally like it...i just was shocked that in 2009 a black woman who wore her hair naturally even if it was well kempt would be in jepordy career wise smdh.

 

I agree if a woman walks into a law firm with a huge afro with purple on the tips then yes thats unprofessional BUT if she chooses to braid it down into a nice neat style thats not distracting i dont see what the issue is.

 

Again i think it goes back to this idea that straight hair is better than curly coiled hair. Not just me that thinks this but curly haired caucasian women so as well. In fact i read a stat that said 70% of us (human beings that is) have curly hair. So youd think that a hair pattern thats so common would be more accepted.

 

I also think it is bc white males are largly who run things still. Since most curly haired men cut their hair super short they dont think about it.Same thing as why its so hard for a women to get off early from work to pick her kids up from daycare. The middle aged white male(male in general) doesnt think about this bc he may make enough money where his wife doesnt have to work. So things like this dont come up in his life.

 

I think everyone needs a dose of walk in some ones elses shoes for a day tis all. ~steps off soapbox~

[sb129]

[quote=2sure;2340373

 

BUT. You will have more success professionally if the image of yourself you have created matches what is generally accepted in your chosen field of employment.

Calling it unfair or racist that the employer is catering to its own market isnt going to get you the job. To say the least.

Market yourself and your image for the position you want. Job seekers need to offer the complete package - skills, education, and image.

 

You nailed it 2sure.

 

Nobody is saying employers expect people to make their hair do anything "unnatural".

 

Just looking neat and tidy would be enough I would think.

[TwinkletOes26]

You nailed it 2sure.

 

Nobody is saying employers expect people to make their hair do anything "unnatural".

 

Just looking neat and tidy would be enough I would think.

 

I agree neat and tidy is a must for work. Some people sadly are of the belief that you arent polished unless your hair is straight. I mean is this ladys hair unprofessional

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.womensbeautylife.com/albums/Hair-styles-for-older-woman/older_African_American_women_hairstyle_with_natural_crop.jpg&imgrefurl=http://womensbeautylife.com/gallery/Hair-styles-for-older-woman/older_African_American_women_hairstyle_with_natural_crop&usg=__DyZ25HG8i6UDeEPHyJXEjkLRr48=&h=343&w=309&sz=24&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=bCBmAMXEZyqpzM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnatural%2Bhairstyles%2Bfor%2Bblack%2Bwomen%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

 

or her which btw is what the result of the bantu knots are suppose to be

 

http://www.2009haircuts.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/42.jpeg

 

I think both are nice and neat wouldnt you all agree?

[sb129]

I like both hairstyles.

 

They are infinitely better than some I have seen of AA women who straighten their hair and plaster it to their head.

Or worse, wear wigs!

[moo]

It's actually not a reach. It is true. When I was in business school, all the women were required to take their braids out, because potential employers would see them as "too ethnic."

 

They said you can put the braids back after you get hired. People feel more comfortable hiring people just like them. Rough, hair with tight curls...okay, I'll say it...nappy hair makes many Caucasians uncomfortable.

[TwinkletOes26]

It's actually not a reach. It is true. When I was in business school, all the women were required to take their braids out, because potential employers would see them as "too ethnic."

 

They said you can put the braids back after you get hired. People feel more comfortable hiring people just like them. Rough, hair with tight curls...okay, I'll say it...nappy hair makes many Caucasians uncomfortable.

 

 

This is exactly why americans need to have a REAL talk about race and race relations..not this bs "black in america" crap a REAL talk about it. People on both sides seem to be to chicken s%&%t to do so.

 

That is insane. Why would my natural hair make caucasians uncomfortable? What is it a reminder that im not white? I mean my skin coloring isnt enough for you lol? Im sorry to be soap boxy but i just really wish america would progress a little more...and no barack obama isnt enough progress lol. Its a step in the right direction but a step that should have been made DECADES ago.

[Shygirl15]

The irritation comes from the idea that caucasian hair is the ideal and that everyone should have it bc its the best.

Ok, 1st off I never got this impression before.

 

I straighten my hair only to make it easily manageable and decent looking, not otherwise. I find it a bit challenging to come off with a decent, professional look with kinky hair. And I'll be honest; I find kinky hair at workplace to be soo ...out of place. Not sure why, but somehow people with these type of hairstyles scare me a bit.

[EarthGirl]

Ok, 1st off I never got this impression before.

 

I straighten my hair only to make it easily manageable and decent looking, not otherwise. I find it a bit challenging to come off with a decent, professional look with kinky hair. And I'll be honest; I find kinky hair at workplace to be soo ...out of place. Not sure why, but somehow people with these type of hairstyles scare me a bit.

 

that's exactly our point...there's no reason you should be scared unless someone is holding a knife to you or something. This is irrational and I'm sorry but somewhat racist thinking.

 

LOL, I was just thinking that I should totally have my hair done in African braids or something to show support for my black sisters. How do you think they would look on a pasty white girl?

[EarthGirl]

p.s. shygirl, I don't know what race you are, I am not calling you a racist, though people of all races can be racist against other races or even their own. But I certainly would not call you that from that post and just having met you. If you are a black woman, you might also have some psychological reasons in your background for being uncomfortable with what you call kinky hair in other black women or men, which I could not understand.

 

So to clarify, I was not calling YOU racist, just this way of thinking, and did not mean to single you out or attack you.

[sb129]

I have white friends who have crazy hard to control curly hair- they just tie it up or get it cut in a style similar to the younger picture.

 

I really think this is a non issue.

[TwinkletOes26]

Ok, 1st off I never got this impression before.

 

I straighten my hair only to make it easily manageable and decent looking, not otherwise. I find it a bit challenging to come off with a decent, professional look with kinky hair. And I'll be honest; I find kinky hair at workplace to be soo ...out of place. Not sure why, but somehow people with these type of hairstyles scare me a bit.

 

 

WHy would it scare you? It looks out of place because its not caucasian. Again it goes back to my hair no matter how much i do relax it will NEVER looks quite caucasian bc it is not.

 

sb : its not a non issue bc it affects a lot of minorities(mostly women). Im not talking about a huge afro here im talking about the style examples i showed. AGAIN i agree if an aa woman walked in with a huge afro with purple around the edges then yes thats not appropriate BUT it she had it a neat style that just wasnt straight i dont see the issue other than it reminds some people that the person is not white.

 

America makes me shake my head sometimes we can have a multiracial president but we cant get over this race issue ....this is what makes me wanna leave for canada sometimes. I know race is an issue everywhere but some countries are better than others when it comes to this issue.

[2sure]

AA hair must be really hard to style, or obviously this would not be an issue. I still think calling it a race issue is quite a reach. Sleek hair , at the moment, is trendy. I tell my daughter every morning while she is applying products, blow drying, and straightening...that soon Big Hair will come back and she will be all set. So, what is acceptable and the norm is dictated by many variables - the nature of your employer, your own personal style, and fashion trends. AA hair is just a LOT harder to style...I get that now.

 

But. Those little knots...is it me or do they not look like a bunch of door knobs on your head??