Eve Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 So im not implying anyone is racist. I just was wondering why people would discriminate against someone for something they cant help. Your hair texture is as much out of your control as your skin color. Employers are more likely to employ someone who has simular characteristics to themselves. I dont have time to dig out the study at present. Hence the whole race relations thing within employment law. Take care, Eve xx Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 A bantu knot is not natural. It's a form of hairstyle. It's like wondering why a caucasian person can't progress within the corporate world with a mohawk haircut or glowing, lime green hair. It's not about straight or curly, although curly tends to look less conservative and sleek. It's about hairSTYLE and conservatism. Another example is, say someone wears a shirt and shorts to work. Someone else wears an elegant suit. The two are equal in all other ways, including intelligence, looks, business savvy, etc. The person in the suit, is more likely to be promoted, if that's the image the corporation wants to present to the world. It is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Or a piercing, or visible tattoos etc etc etc. Appearance matters in many places of work. It is what it is, and it won't change.Its not racism, its business. Link to post Share on other sites
spookie Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I'm so glad I work for a company that values substance over image. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I'm so glad I work for a company that values substance over image.Are you telling me that you can wear skin tight leopard skin clothing to work and no one would bat an eye? What does your upper management wear? Link to post Share on other sites
spookie Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Are you telling me that you can wear skin tight leopard skin clothing to work and no one would bat an eye? What does your upper management wear? Oh come on... there's no need to throw down examples of extremes. Yah, I'd probably be reprimanded if I wore my skin tight leopard tube top to work.... but I can safely assume piercings and visible tattoos are ok. There are lots of people in high-up and "fast-track" positions who have them. People, upper management included, also aren't anal about hair, or looking glam and polished. There's one woman in upper management who dresses like a clown each day... no joke. I mean, she does the collared shirt and trousers business casual thing, but the colors are always so bright and clashing I can only assume she is kidding.... Maybe it's the midwest, where standards for beauty are lower. Maybe the standards overall are lower cause we're not a corporation. I dunno. I let my curly hair air-dry at the office each day and so far everyone loves me.... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Oh come on... there's no need to throw down examples of extremes. Yah, I'd probably be reprimanded if I wore my skin tight leopard tube top to work.... but I can safely assume piercings and visible tattoos are ok. There are lots of people in high-up and "fast-track" positions who have them. People, upper management included, also aren't anal about hair, or looking glam and polished. There's one woman in upper management who dresses like a clown each day... no joke. I mean, she does the collared shirt and trousers business casual thing, but the colors are always so bright and clashing I can only assume she is kidding.... Maybe it's the midwest, where standards for beauty are lower. Maybe the standards overall are lower cause we're not a corporation. I dunno. I let my curly hair air-dry at the office each day and so far everyone loves me....Then don't jump into a thread and state that your company values substance over image, without any frame of reference. To me, your statement reads that sky's the limit which isn't true. They also have a tolerance level for acceptable professional image. Each firm has a tolerance level. To what degree and how high you want to go, is reliant on the you and the industry you belong to. If you want to err on any side, err on the side of conservative, unless your industry isn't conservative and encourages more wild forms of dressing. For example, the entertainment industry. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TwinkletOes26 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 tbf but a person who wears a mohawk and shorts to work CHOOSES to wear them. I didnt choose to have kinky hair. Curly hair is less conservative? Thats a new one lol...why is it that i see curlies walking around offices everyday? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 tbf but a person who wears a mohawk and shorts to work CHOOSES to wear them. I didnt choose to have kinky hair. Curly hair is less conservative? Thats a new one lol...why is it that i see curlies walking around offices everyday?We were talking about bantu knots, now you've gone back to curly hair. I didn't choose to have curly hair but was willing to tone it down for the office, so I didn't look like someone fresh from a night of wild sex. It was my choice to wear my wavy hair long. It's possibly your choice to wear your hair in bantu knots. These are hairstyles, thus choices, not something you're born with. If you have wild hair, you can tie it back or not wear it in a bantu knot. Is this too much for a company to ask for? Does that make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm so glad I work for a company that values substance over image. But you don't. See examples above. All sucessful companies value "substance" over "image" to a degree- its the substance that keeps them going. but IMAGE can be just as important, and again, successful companies get to choose the image they want to portray, and can hire accordingly. The two are often critically interlinked.... for some companies it may be more obvious than others. Really successful companies will have the luxury of having many applicants for their jobs, so they will be able to pick and choose their employees based on BOTH their substance AND their image- so they fit into the company. And thats their right as an employer. Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Maybe its just those of us who have been in the workforce for a number years who get it? I own my own subcontracting company, and I know from experience that the wrong employee can be diabolical for your business. And image can play a huge part. I subcontract to a company that has similar philosophies and image to my own. Everyones a winner. Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Erased Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm so glad I work for a company that values substance over image. I'm glad I work for a company that values both. It looks more professional to our investors and clients and anyone else that comes into the office. Yes it's annoying to conform etc etc but if it helps us to make that little bit more money, to be that much better than our competitors, so be it. So I wear suits and I do my hair and makeup. I'd rather people focus on the work I do than the fact that I'm wearing jeans and my hair looks a crazy mess. TwinkletOes, if your boss doesn't have a problem with your hair, I'd say it is more than appropriate. If it wasn't they would have said something by now. Not all companies expect the same thing from their employees and you're young enough to get away with a lot more than the higher ups. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TwinkletOes26 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 We were talking about bantu knots, now you've gone back to curly hair. I didn't choose to have curly hair but was willing to tone it down for the office, so I didn't look like someone fresh from a night of wild sex. It was my choice to wear my wavy hair long. It's possibly your choice to wear your hair in bantu knots. These are hairstyles, thus choices, not something you're born with. If you have wild hair, you can tie it back or not wear it in a bantu knot. Is this too much for a company to ask for? Does that make sense? LOL maybe we misunderstand LOL i dont wear the bantu knots out in public LOL LOL i wear the result out which is a curly style. The ladys hair in the clip's end result was not wild at all of course you can calm curly hair down with lots of silione and hair spray (trust me ive done it) LOL...i keep refering to curky hair bc thats what result when you take the bantu knots down...ill up load a pic of it on me tomorrow when the ones i have in my hair now dry .... Link to post Share on other sites
Author TwinkletOes26 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 Citizen my friend works with a law office and she says there are lots of aa women who wear thei hair natural. Maybe its cos she lives in an area with a lot of middle and upper middle class aa.... Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Erased Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Citizen my friend works with a law office and she says there are lots of aa women who wear thei hair natural. Maybe its cos she lives in an area with a lot of middle and upper middle class aa.... Perhaps it's the area. It must be very rare for a law office to be not strictly corporate. You should see our lawyers that come in or reps from PWC during tax time. I wish I had the money to dress like that everyday. I should add that our PR manager has curly hair. It's in a kind of bob and very styled, she looks great. *jealous face* Link to post Share on other sites
Author TwinkletOes26 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 i try to do heat less styles bc aa hair esp if its relaxed is very dry and breaks easily so the less heat the better. Heat is the only way to get it straight.I know there are ways to calm curly hair down lol.Come to think of it my dr has curly hair its always styled so very pretty Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Erased Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 i try to do heat less styles bc aa hair esp if its relaxed is very dry and breaks easily so the less heat the better. Heat is the only way to get it straight.I know there are ways to calm curly hair down lol.Come to think of it my dr has curly hair its always styled so very pretty I know our hair isn't the same but invest in a GHD. It's the only straightener that doesn't damage the heck out of my hair if I use it everyday. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TwinkletOes26 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 I know our hair isn't the same but invest in a GHD. It's the only straightener that doesn't damage the heck out of my hair if I use it everyday. oh trust i have one;)and i used it everyday for a month .....massive breakage lost 2 inches of hair:(...thats the bad part aa hair cant take a ton of heat. Its the most fragile hair type even though it doesnt look like it lol....i wear my hair curly but i make sure to tame it and keep it under control silicone is my friend LOL Link to post Share on other sites
Jilly Bean Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Twinkle - I feel for you. If I were a black woman, I would want to wear a total afro, with a pick in it, too! Honestly, I thought that look from the 70's was so fabulous, and so flattering. It does suck that you can't go au natural in the workplace. What about wearing a wig to work? Link to post Share on other sites
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 So are you supposed to actually wear bantu knots out in public because in the video, it appears to be the styling aid for the curls at the end, which look cute on her. It's like wearing rollers? So she was wearing rollers out in public out to eat before the video? Link to post Share on other sites
Rudderless Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 But you don't. Really successful companies will have the luxury of having many applicants for their jobs, so they will be able to pick and choose their employees based on BOTH their substance AND their image- so they fit into the company. And thats their right as an employer. Yeah but really successful AND frikkin cool companies like google don't even bother with image and hire the core important staff based on ninja abilities in their field. http://blog.marcelotoledo.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/image007.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
Rudderless Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm so glad I work for a company that values substance over image. I concur and I don't know what's so objectionable about what you've said. These sorts of companies are relaxed environments where you can show up with your hair out of place and it's just the norm. They're fantastically productive environments and great places to work, even better if you have a pool table, sofa area, places where people can relax and chat about work. Tech companies tend to model themselves like this. The place I worked in my early 20's, the employees were given free reign, and a piece of the company. I earned a lot of equity in the company and made enough to retire from it before I got into my late 20's. I much prefer this to your average workplace where the employee is sat at a desk, does a handful of hours of unfocused work and logs onto the internet all day with a high turnover of staff. It's boring and soulless. The first company I worked for was like that and I got out as quick as I could. The sad thing is of course, that most companies want you to have no equity in the company, no percentage reward for the money you make for them, and to act like a drone that dresses and acts in a certain way. They also want you to believe that "they" notice if you do a good job, but the truth is there is no "they" noticing. Hence, you get people passed over for promotion as in the opening post. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TwinkletOes26 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 pink some people do ..i have once just cos i was going out that night and we needed to go to the mall to pick up new dresses.People just thought i was being afrocentric LOL:lmao::lmao:......but yea you r suppose to take them down and your hair is curly. I can understand why bantu knots themselves wouldnt be apropriate lol Link to post Share on other sites
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Oh I could see how you could do that, it looks kind of 'funky' but not as bad as if you wore rollers out. On a plane I saw a really pretty young woman recently except she had really long dreadlocks. She was blond. It totally ruined her looks. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 pink some people do ..i have once just cos i was going out that night and we needed to go to the mall to pick up new dresses.People just thought i was being afrocentric LOL:lmao::lmao:......but yea you r suppose to take them down and your hair is curly. I can understand why bantu knots themselves wouldnt be apropriate lol Ohhh, you take the knots out! I only saw the first part of that clip and thought you meant going to work like that, which is why I said it was a "young" style. So I went back and look at the rest of the video. The spiral curls the bantu knots create are pretty, and if you don't then style your hair in the various sticking-out ponytails she suggest, you'll be fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts