Questions for both sides

[SidLyon]

You are correct and I do apologize for the "lovely" vs "wonderful"

 

But I still find it amazing that while you don't know me, you don't know him or the relationship at all, that you can admittedly assume that I am "pining" or that you know in any way shape or form that I am a "misconceived" about MY relationship.

 

Oh dear - first I was speaking hypothetically - was that not obvious? and I was actually hypothetically referring to many OW who regularly question/assume (just read the OW discussion board) that their MMs are pining for them. I made no assumptions at all about you "pining" - whatever gave you the impression that I did? Can I respectfully suggest you read my posts before accusing me of saying something I didn't.

 

That I find is the primary problem, while you insist I must be pining and in the same pot as all the other women thrown under a bus and not remotely understand or be open to the idea that not ALL men go back for the reasons you believe, that MANY (not all) do choose to go back for a number of reasons and that the idea of that for most BS is horrifying ( I do understand that)

 

Err I insisted on nothing about you pining - is English not your first language - I don't want to give you a hard time if it's not. I'm fully aware of why many men might choose to stay with their wives and throw OW "under the bus" - this is a colloquial expression I'd never heard of before but seems an apt analogy.

 

Yes, this is when I get my back up.... I have never specifically said to you, " I know you are just a BS who's husband went back for the wrong reasons, yada yada" and I find it extremely offensive that when you respond you specifically speak to me as if you know ANYTHING regarding my situation, it is arrogant beyond belief.

 

No you seem to be making the most offensive assumptions about me and even to the point of misquoting me and completely reversing what I've said.

 

I have not said to anyone here that there situation is not as they see it, yet because you don't like my position you continue to suggest that in MY situation, you are in the know.

 

Where did I continually suggest this please?

 

Yes, offensive and arrogant and unfortunate if BS choose to believe they fully know a relationship that they were not involved in..

 

I think there are a number of patterns in the BW/MM/OW triangle. My own H has admitted that our triangle followed a shamefully predictable pattern. It wouldn't surprise me if yours did too -but of course I don't know that for sure - certainly I'm not insisting on it.

 

S

[Sanafa]

I was especially frustrated that you seem to be of the view that your MM has returned to his wife perhaps because of children, finances or whatever and has thrown you under the bus while still pining for you and considering you to be his real soulmate. This is a common misconception by abandoned OW; and is just as unrealistic a view as any BW who believes that her H never really cared for the OW.

 

English is my first language,

 

But I question if it is yours?

 

I misquoted a WORD nothing more, please don't suggest otherwise. I am not mincing words, but all means if you have a different meaning of YOU/YOUR please share.

[SidLyon]

English is my first language,

 

But I question if it is yours?

 

I misquoted a WORD nothing more, please don't suggest otherwise. I am not mincing words, but all means if you have a different meaning of YOU/YOUR please share.

 

So are you now agreeing that I wasn't insisting that you were pining? Much of your previous post was devoted to having a go at me because of your mistake. You also misquoted more than just one word. Also internet netiquette says capitalising words is the equivalent of shouting. Shall I assume that you're a shouter too? I wouldn't want to insist on it despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

Yes your beliefs do frustrate me, that is certainly the truth. And yes these are common misconceptions of OW (speaking generically). Yes I suspect you are misconceived too (or perhaps just deceived like many other BW/OW) - but you are right I don't know and have not insisted on it despite your insistence that I have.

 

S

[Sanafa]

So are you now agreeing that I wasn't insisting that you were pining? Much of your previous post was devoted to having a go at me because of your mistake. You also misquoted more than just one word. Also internet netiquette saying capitalising words is the equivalent of shouting. Shall I assume that you're a shouter too? I wouldn't want to insist on it despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

Yes your beliefs do frustrate me, that is certainly the truth. And yes these are common misconceptions of OW (speaking generically). Yes I suspect you are misconceived too (or perhaps just deceived like many other BW/OW) - but you are right I don't know and have not insisted on it despite your insistence that I have.

 

S

 

Capitalizing is also used for emphasis. However, I see we are getting nowhere.

 

You suggested you did nothing of the sort when referring to my MM or Me, or our relationship, however, speaking to someone versus " in my opinion" clearly shows that is not the case. I only referenced you once with the " lovely/wonderful" comment, anything else was not in response to you, perhaps you need to understand that.

 

I misquoted a word, and only a word.

 

And I am really unsure as to why my views on my relationship would frustrate you? In all seriousness, I am sure you have better things to spend your energy on.

 

And again

 

I have never suggested I know anything about you, nor have I stereotyped you

" I suspect you are misconceived too (or perhaps just deceived like many other BW/OW) - but you are right I don't know and have not insisted on it despite your insistence that I have."

 

And I suspect you are a BS who can't fathom that there was more to the Affair than what you husband shared. ( now, I imagine that comment is frustrating?, I am sure it is, terrible when people assume or put you into some preconceived category_

[NoIDidn't]

Ahh, more misquoting....figures.

[Sanafa]

Ahh' date=' more misquoting....figures.[/quote']

 

Pot calling kettle black

 

Go away, I truly do not wish to participate with you and have politely asked that you refrain.

 

Now I am asking yet again..... entertain yourself elsewhere or I know...spend sometime OFF the computer.

[SidLyon]

Capitalizing is also used for emphasis. However, I see we are getting nowhere.

 

You suggested you did nothing of the sort when referring to my MM or Me, or our relationship, however, speaking to someone versus " in my opinion" clearly shows that is not the case. I only referenced you once with the " lovely/wonderful" comment, anything else was not in response to you, perhaps you need to understand that.

 

I misquoted a word, and only a word.

 

And I am really unsure as to why my views on my relationship would frustrate you? In all seriousness, I am sure you have better things to spend your energy on.

 

And again

 

I have never suggested I know anything about you, nor have I stereotyped you

 

" I suspect you are misconceived too (or perhaps just deceived like many other BW/OW) - but you are right I don't know and have not insisted on it despite your insistence that I have."

 

And I suspect you are a BS who can't fathom that there was more to the Affair than what you husband shared. ( now, I imagine that comment is frustrating?, I am sure it is, terrible when people assume or put you into some preconceived category_

 

We will just have to have these mutual suspicions about each other won't we?

 

S

 

PS You are not the only person who resorts to suggesting that other people might have better things to do than be on this board reacting to and responding to other people's posts. Does anybody besides me see the irony of this?

[Sanafa]

We will just have to have these mutual suspicions about each other won't we?

 

S

 

PS You are not the only person who resorts to suggesting that other people might have better things to do than be on this board reacting to and responding to other people's posts. Does anybody besides me see the irony of this?

 

 

You may but I am not sure how... I check here a couple times a day......in fact many responses will go hours before I am actually here to respond.

 

Unlike NID...who's posts are consistent and nonstop throughout the two forums.

[NoIDidn't]

We will just have to have these mutual suspicions about each other won't we?

 

S

 

PS You are not the only person who resorts to suggesting that other people might have better things to do than be on this board reacting to and responding to other people's posts. Does anybody besides me see the irony of this?

 

Of course not. You are not the only person to see the irony in it. LOL.

 

There is LOTS of irony in her posts. Lots. :laugh:

[NoIDidn't]

You may but I am not sure how... I check here a couple times a day......in fact many responses will go hours before I am actually here to respond.

 

Unlike NID...who's posts are consistent and nonstop throughout the two forums.

 

Why do you care how many forums I post in? Is that supposed to be some sort of dig? You should try harder. You really make this too easy.

[Sanafa]

Why do you care how many forums I post in? Is that supposed to be some sort of dig? You should try harder. You really make this too easy.

 

No, a dig would mean there was no reality to it and I was grasping.

 

Listen, seriously, if I wanted to dig I would, trust me, and you would certainly be deserving since I have politely asked you several times to refrain from participating with me, or directly at me.

 

The fact that you continue even when being asked to refrain ( lots to do and see here) speaks volumes of your neediness.... not charming in any capacity.

 

I have not referenced or quoted you in any other area.... I would greatly appreciate it if you showed some class and honored my request to do the same.

[bentnotbroken]

No, a dig would mean there was no reality to it and I was grasping.

 

Listen, seriously, if I wanted to dig I would, trust me, and you would certainly be deserving since I have politely asked you several times to refrain from participating with me, or directly at me.

 

The fact that you continue even when being asked to refrain ( lots to do and see here) speaks volumes of your neediness.... not charming in any capacity.

 

I have not referenced or quoted you in any other area.... I would greatly appreciate it if you showed some class and honored my request to do the same.

 

 

 

If it's that's important hit the dang ignore button. Sheesshh........

[SidLyon]

No, a dig would mean there was no reality to it and I was grasping.

 

Listen, seriously, if I wanted to dig I would, trust me, and you would certainly be deserving since I have politely asked you several times to refrain from participating with me, or directly at me.

 

The fact that you continue even when being asked to refrain ( lots to do and see here) speaks volumes of your neediness.... not charming in any capacity.

 

I have not referenced or quoted you in any other area.... I would greatly appreciate it if you showed some class and honored my request to do the same.

 

This is ridiculous. Why on earth did you start a post seeking answers from "both sides" only to ask someone who disagreed with you to stop disagreeing with you. It is quite legitimate for me or anyone else to ask you not to directly misquote us.

 

Contrary to your assertion it is not just you using the word "lovely" rather than "wonderful". That at least was understandable. You then devoted virtually a whole post saying how offensive you found it for me to suggest you were pining for your MM when it wasn't even what I said. When I called you out you continued to insist it was just one word you misquoted.

 

As far as I'm aware this is a public forum and all are welcome to respond subject to whatever terms are imposed by the moderator. My personal view is that it's not up to individual posters to dictate who can respond. A respectful request is acceptable I'm sure; provided you understand that there's no obligation on anybody to comply with your request. But if you accompany said request with veiled insults or implications that you are somehow more classy than others then most people will not take you seriously.

 

S

[Sanafa]

This is ridiculous. Why on earth did you start a post seeking answers from "both sides" only to ask someone who disagreed with you to stop disagreeing with you. It is quite legitimate for me or anyone else to ask you not to directly misquote us.

 

Contrary to your assertion it is not just you using the word "lovely" rather than "wonderful". That at least was understandable. You then devoted virtually a whole post saying how offensive you found it for me to suggest you were pining for your MM when it wasn't even what I said. When I called you out you continued to insist it was just one word you misquoted.

 

As far as I'm aware this is a public forum and all are welcome to respond subject to whatever terms are imposed by the moderator. My personal view is that it's not up to individual posters to dictate who can respond. A respectful request is acceptable I'm sure; provided you understand that there's no obligation on anybody to comply with your request. But if you accompany said request with veiled insults or implications that you are somehow more classy than others then most people will not take you seriously.

 

S

 

As far as the misquoting, you posted in reference to one, I responded to that... .as for the pinning, you are correct you suggest I though he was... again, assumptions but ironic that you want me to apologize yet won't admit that you specifically referred to me in your posts when you tried to suggest you were being hypothetical:rolleyes:

 

 

Because it is inconvenient you need to suggest that I disagree with anyone with altering viewpoints, not the case and in fact in this particular thread not even close. I appreciate when people share respectfully " In my opinon/situation" and avoid " You/Your's/ Suspect and Assuming... all arrogance and I do not apologize for suggesting that the first time.

 

NID, doesn't have a "viewpoint" other than patting others on the back and confirming a nodding head for acceptance. I am also well aware this is a public board, but we are not 10 ( or maybe some are and that is the problem). She is welcome to post, however I do have the right to ask that she refrain from referring to ME.

 

And yes, I did walk away from her far classier than what was returned... I certainly don't need your approval to know that.

[SidLyon]

As far as the misquoting, you posted in reference to one, I responded to that... .as for the pinning, you are correct you suggest I though he was... again, assumptions but ironic that you want me to apologize yet won't admit that you specifically referred to me in your posts when you tried to suggest you were being hypothetical:rolleyes:

You can't help it can you? Where did I say I want you to apologise? As it happens you are completely wrong - an erroneous assumption you have made.

 

Because it is inconvenient you need to suggest that I disagree with anyone with altering viewpoints, not the case and in fact in this particular thread not even close. I appreciate when people share respectfully " In my opinon/situation" and avoid " You/Your's/ Suspect and Assuming... all arrogance and I do not apologize for suggesting that the first time.

 

NID, doesn't have a "viewpoint" other than patting others on the back and confirming a nodding head for acceptance. I am also well aware this is a public board, but we are not 10 ( or maybe some are and that is the problem). She is welcome to post, however I do have the right to ask that she refrain from referring to ME.

 

And yes, I did walk away from her far classier than what was returned... I certainly don't need your approval to know that.

 

Oh and it's my belief that it is not classy to have an affair with somebody else's husband. I know nothing of you and how classy you are but I can categorically state your actions were not classy - period (I know how you just hate it). I am willing to engage in polite conversation with you and any OW without being personally insulting (well not too much). That will never change how I feel about women who have affairs with other women's husbands. It's been the worst experience of my life - nothing has ever happened before that made me want to die or to kill myself. I could hurl every insult in the book at OW generally but there's no point. Some will have worked out from their own experiences what they were complicit in putting another woman/family through. Others will insist it's not their responsibility and that the MM was somehow being honourable - thereby allowing some of that perceived honour to rub off onto them. Nothing I say will ever convey to such an OW how contemptible and despicable she is in my opinion.

 

 

S

[Calins]

WTF??? What part of MARRIED dont you understand?

 

Was there no other single men out in the streets to sleep with? cause clearly from what you wrote your not sorry for doing what your doing. So if you caught a STD or got the stuffing beat out of you you'd learn then?

 

..and no im not bitter but very logical and it makes no sense for a woman to go with a married man and think it's a relationship to be proud of while he's still with his wife. That's just plain wrong...

 

and that's where i stand.

Give me a break.... she's not married... he is.

 

C

[Sanafa]

Oh and it's my belief that it is not classy to have an affair with somebody else's husband. I know nothing of you and how classy you are but I can categorically state your actions were not classy - period (I know how you just hate it). I am willing to engage in polite conversation with you and any OW without being personally insulting (well not too much). That will never change how I feel about women who have affairs with other women's husbands. It's been the worst experience of my life - nothing has ever happened before that made me want to die or to kill myself. I could hurl every insult in the book at OW generally but there's no point. Some will have worked out from their own experiences what they were complicit in putting another woman/family through. Others will insist it's not their responsibility and that the MM was somehow being honourable - thereby allowing some of that perceived honour to rub off onto them. Nothing I say will ever convey to such an OW how contemptible and despicable she is in my opinion.

 

 

S

 

That is honest and fair as far as I am concerned. I am not proud of my choices at all, but I do wonder if the OW is (and rightly so) seen in such contempt how anyone could forgive the W/H for the betrayal that in reality they had the control over.

 

And before you assume, I am not against reconciliation but when one holds so much venom for one participant I do wonder how it is possible to not hold the same for the other participant, who in fact knew and cared about the person they hurt and was solely responsible for risking the family core.

[whichwayisup]

how anyone could forgive the W/H for the betrayal that in reality they had the control over.

 

Are you saying that the husband or wife of cheating spouse should have had more control over them so they wouldn't cheat?

 

Cheating is a choice and most of the time it has nothing to do with the BS, it's mostly all about the CS and their own issues inside of them that makes them cheat. Whether it be an ego feed, or some needs not being met in the marriage so they go looking for it elsewhere, either way, one cannot blame the BS in a WS's choice (and it is a choice) to cheat.

[Sanafa]

Are you saying that the husband or wife of cheating spouse should have had more control over them so they wouldn't cheat?

 

Cheating is a choice and most of the time it has nothing to do with the BS, it's mostly all about the CS and their own issues inside of them that makes them cheat. Whether it be an ego feed, or some needs not being met in the marriage so they go looking for it elsewhere, either way, one cannot blame the BS in a WS's choice (and it is a choice) to cheat.

 

No no....not at all

 

What I said was in reference to Syd saying she found the OW contemptible and despicable. Basically, how can you blame one and feel such contempt and hate/anger and not feel the same for the WS who is responsible for risking the family core and causing the same pain the OW has.

 

No suggestion the BS has any ability to control a WS behaviour.

[tami-chan]

And kudos to you for making that life for your daughter. I, of course, never said your opinion didn't count, I said it changed the dynamic, as of course it does. The fact that your were both BS and OW does change the dynamic. It also is fairly common on these boards. As you know, the description fits me as well.

 

Oh no I didn't say you said my opinion didn't count and even if you did I would not take offense....but thanks for the kudos! I tried..'all I could do..

 

However, people being people tend to relate more to one group than they do the other, especially when there is a large disparity in the opinions of both. I do not know what causes the choice. I used to think a person related more to what they were the last, but as I said I don't really know why one relates more to one than the other - but it is human nature to do so. You tend to relate more to OW, I tend to relate more to BS.

 

I do not really know if I relate more to the OW vis-a-vis the BS. I think along the way, I realized (and this is only for myself, mind you) that most relationships are complex because people are complex and that I can't hate the other person because of my husband's choices....

 

The fact, however, that you chose to stay with your husband for your daughter, despite his philandering does not in any way mean that is the reason for all or even most reconciliations. I don't know that I would even call your eventual living arrangement a reconciliation.

 

No..not by any stretch of the imagination....we were(still are) partners in parenting a child-it was a stable home, quiet, calm and cordial. Which is more than I can say about many tumultuous homes where parents are "fighting" to save their marriages and tension is palpable. Our partnership was intact-it was all that mattered at that time.

 

The fact that yours was not is sad

 

But you should not be sad....because it was what I decided to do at that time. It will only be sad if I fought to "win" back my husband...I did not have to fight to win him back. I did not even asked my husband to stop cheating or else. Why? he is not a child, he did not need to be told .I stayed in my marriage for my own reasons and he did for his. And for all the decisions we both made, we both will have to be responsible for the fall-out ( and there were/are). A reconciliation was not why I stayed in the marriage.

 

the fact that most OW either cannot see (or do not want to see) the possibility is unfortunate. (As a matter of fact, many BS cannot see the possibility either.)

 

Anything is possible. My xOM/MM is now divorced and wants to marry me, albeit ,I was not the reason for their divorce. I am also sure that at some point there must have been a woman in my H's life who meant more to him (he might even been in love with) and why not? The heart has a huge capacity to love more than one person.

 

That many OW think they can come to the infidelity section and be disrespectful but expect BS to be respectful in the OW section is hypocritical - and the same is true in the other direction.

 

Well..it happens from both sides. Maybe if we all limit our responses to whatever the OP is asking or reason for coming? Maybe there won't be any bashing? Say, if an OW comes to the OW board and asks "Can anyone give me tips to keep my MM?"---maybe if one does not have any tip then one must not post? or if a BS comes to the Infidelity Board and asks "H thinks he is in love with OW, I know he is in a FOG, HELP"---then anybody who cannot post a help tip must not post? But....how interesting would the boards be?

[whichwayisup]

Okay, maybe it was the way you worded it, or it's just me!

 

I think it's allowed for a BS to feel anger at the OW or OM. And, anyone who believes that anger isn't 100 times stronger for the WS is foolin' themselves... The anger gets spread around.

 

It could be the same when an OW gets angry at the BS when the MM decides to go back home. The OW puts alot of her anger, frustration pain, whatever on the wife, like the wife manipulated and held a gun to the MM's head so he could come back home. Many OW have anger towards the wife after D-Day. It's kind of the samething, in some sense don't you think? If your logic is true, then an OW should have no anger or resentment towards the wife, it should be only directed at the MM.

 

(Sorry if my wording is off tonight, have had a migraine for 2 days so I may not make alot of sense at times.)

[SidLyon]

That is honest and fair as far as I am concerned. I am not proud of my choices at all, but I do wonder if the OW is (and rightly so) seen in such contempt how anyone could forgive the W/H for the betrayal that in reality they had the control over.

 

And before you assume, I am not against reconciliation but when one holds so much venom for one participant I do wonder how it is possible to not hold the same for the other participant, who in fact knew and cared about the person they hurt and was solely responsible for risking the family core.

 

Because it is as I said, the OW that I hold in contempt and despise.

 

I love my H (surprise surprise) and rightly or wrongly I have separated out his actions (contemptible and despicable yes) from him. However I don't love the OW. I am not living with her and have met her just once. I owe her no good feelings in order to get on with my life.

 

This is very convenient for marital reconciliation because it allow me to project all my nasty feelings onto her - and guess what she also gets all those feelings that perhaps rightly belong with him. In other words a double whammy for the OW.

 

The reverse question can be directed at OW too. Why do they not direct all the negative thoughts at the MM rather than choosing to perceive that somehow his W has an unreasonable hold over him - in at least one case there is an OW doing this who openly acknowledges that the BW doesn't even know of the A.

 

On the OW board day after day they are tearing themselves apart because they are having this "soulmate" relationship with a MM who will not leave his wife. D-day arrives and often but not always the A ends (colloquially known as "throwing the OW under the bus").

 

In the case of a long running A I don't think any BW is naive enough to think there were not real feelings for the OW by their own H's but nevertheless many H's still want to stay married. Only speaking for myself my H literally begged and pleaded with me to not end our marriage. It was a surreal experience for me as I was just shell-shocked in finding out that my H had an A with Oksana for so many years; and yet here he was in a position (of begging me) that I had never in my wildest dreams expected to see him in.

 

Yes it was he that had made the commitment to me and he who had broken it. By rights as you suggest it should have been impossible for me to want to stay with him while harbouring so many negative feelings for the OW. But as I think many BWs will attest to, logic and rationality don't enter into it at such a time. It is not easy reconciling with my H because of the lies and betrayal but it is easy to project all those negative feelings to the OW (who doesn't actually get to experience them because we have no contact). It's my belief that somehow this aids marital reconciliation that these negative things are not directed at my H. For example I might have a general rant about what a horrible person Oksana is, and at the end I say to him "you too". We actually have a laugh about it because we both know what we are doing and how illogical it is. These rants are subsiding and our marriage is getting better and she is none the wiser.

 

I do take issue with your comment that he was solely responsible for the risks. In my opinion they were both complicit and both knew of the risk - just my view of the world but I do think that OW have a responsibility to the wife and I also think that this view that they don't have any responsibility is at least in part responsible for the fact that OW allow themselves to engage in As with MM.

 

S

[whichwayisup]

The reverse question can be directed at OW too. Why do they not direct all the negative thoughts at the MM rather than choosing to perceive that somehow his W has an unreasonable hold over him - in at least one case there is an OW doing this who openly acknowledges that the BW doesn't even know of the A.

 

Hey Sid, we posted this at the same time..

[Sanafa]

Okay, maybe it was the way you worded it, or it's just me!

 

I think it's allowed for a BS to feel anger at the OW or OM. And, anyone who believes that anger isn't 100 times stronger for the WS is foolin' themselves... The anger gets spread around.

 

It could be the same when an OW gets angry at the BS when the MM decides to go back home. The OW puts alot of her anger, frustration pain, whatever on the wife, like the wife manipulated and held a gun to the MM's head so he could come back home. Many OW have anger towards the wife after D-Day. It's kind of the samething, in some sense don't you think? If your logic is true, then an OW should have no anger or resentment towards the wife, it should be only directed at the MM.

 

(Sorry if my wording is off tonight, have had a migraine for 2 days so I may not make alot of sense at times.)

 

 

No and I agree.... and maybe no one will believe me, but I have said it .... In the initial 2 days of "NC" .... he got an earful.

 

I honestly don't have any anger towards her, and why would I? I am not sure if we were the norm, we didn't discuss her, I wouldn't go to her home even when asked and he did not spend hours telling me how terrible she was.

 

I do see a lot of anger towards the wife, and that may be a grieving process and who knows in a few months maybe I will hate her.... although I doubt it. He on other hand, while we didn't not end badly, I was royal pissed for a couple days and again part of the NC process...

 

Syd... (sorry don't want to quote here)

 

I do agree that the OW woman has to take responsibility and I *think most do, as I said the first 2 weeks was all about guilt and pain for her, not for me or him. I was responsible for the choice I made and I don't buy the " OW didn't make the commitment" either.... but I do think again, if it was me.... my anger would sit with the H..... I didn't marry the OW and while I could * hope she would honor a marriage.... she has no obligation to.... the H/W does however and much like I put my anger on the on person who deserved it - the H.... I would do the same as a BS...

[SidLyon]

Hey Sid, we posted this at the same time..

 

Yes great minds 'n all that.