Lauriebell82 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Okay so I haven't read the whole thread, but I think I get the gist. First, I feel that referring to your bf's house as your own but not "officially" living there is problematic. You are living there if all your clothes are there and you sleep there every night. You are giving him the "why buy the milk" mentality already..you don't have to have your name on the mailbox for that. (of course not all guys feel that way about living together). Anyway, it's not your place to tell him who he can or can't have over as it is not your house officially. (despite what you call it). However, I think you have leverage over the interruption of plans. That would be annoying. If you completely want leverage over what happens in HIS house, than you will have to move in with him to really have that. My fiance's friends came last weekend and ended up staying at another friend's house and not our apartment. He acknowledges now that this is OUR apartment and he is not going to be a bachelor anymore having tons of guys coming in and out of here. And seriously, be honest you would sooooo love it if he proposed to you for real. I've said the "I'm not ready" ****. It's b.s.
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 . It's true that one needs both. Luck to have both your paths cross and the wisdom to recognize him/her when they do. Thanks,Touche. Yep. Exactly. You're welcome Marlena.
Author Star Gazer Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Anyway, it's not your place to tell him who he can or can't have over as it is not your house officially. (despite what you call it). However, I think you have leverage over the interruption of plans. That would be annoying. If you completely want leverage over what happens in HIS house, than you will have to move in with him to really have that. Yeah, see... I think because this situation in particular was about my work space, what entertainment takes place at his house and the background about that, I made it seem like the problem was about "his" vs. "our" house and what can/cannot be expected in that regard, when it was really me just getting irritated at the unilateral change of plans. At the end of the day, I realized it had nothing to do with the house, or our living arrangements, and everything to do with the fact that he didn't talk to me about changing our plans. I felt like he didn't even consider me... and that hurt my feelings. What complicated matters, is that he didn't think we had plans... I did. He thought we just happened to be hanging out, without any plans. He thought this, due largely in part to his sort of assumption that I live there. In thinking I live there, he didn't think that me being there ipso facto meant we had plans. On the other hand, I thought we had plans to chill together and make dinner later. You can pretty much chalk it up to bad miscommunication at the forefront, largely due to the "on the fence" nature of our living arrangements. As for those living arrangements, I think I may be changing my mind about the cow theory. Obviously, people get engaged who live together first. I suppose I just know of too many people who either waited a LONG time, or are still waiting, for the proposal that it makes me nervous, particularly given how "go with the flow" he is. Unlike your fiance, for example, he doesn't really seem to have a master plan... if you know what I mean. I don't want to be waiting 5, 6, 10 years! And seriously, be honest you would sooooo love it if he proposed to you for real. I've said the "I'm not ready" ****. It's b.s. I don't know how I'd feel, to tell you the truth. If he had done it right - i.e., with a ring, on bended knee - I may have been excited (albeit freaked out at the same time). But a sort of buzzed, half-assed, "We can get married..." tentative suggestion as a solution to a problem that's silly in retrospect didn't exactly excite me.
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I respect your honesty in responding to LB's post SG. I still think it was a real proposal though. Sounds like you're figuring it all out for yourself.
Author Star Gazer Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 I respect your honesty in responding to LB's post SG. Thanks, T. I have to own my part in it too! I felt bad when I got "home," as I guess I left in a huff and that hurt his feelings. I still think it was a real proposal though. Was not! Sounds like you're figuring it all out for yourself. One day at a time. I really do adore him.
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Awww, you guys will be fine. I can tell. Remember I said VIABLE!? Yep. Oh and...soooo WAS!
Lauriebell82 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 You can pretty much chalk it up to bad miscommunication at the forefront, largely due to the "on the fence" nature of our living arrangements. As for those living arrangements, I think I may be changing my mind about the cow theory. Obviously, people get engaged who live together first. I suppose I just know of too many people who either waited a LONG time, or are still waiting, for the proposal that it makes me nervous, particularly given how "go with the flow" he is. Unlike your fiance, for example, he doesn't really seem to have a master plan... if you know what I mean. I don't want to be waiting 5, 6, 10 years! Yeah, understandable. I def. think you need to establish some sort of agreement with whose house is who though. Clear boundaries are def. important in a relationship. IMO though, men don't refuse to marry a woman just because they are already living together. I think it's more of a "he's just not that into you" issue. Despite living arrangements or circumstances, if a man wants to propose, he will find a way to do it. I don't know how I'd feel, to tell you the truth. If he had done it right - i.e., with a ring, on bended knee - I may have been excited (albeit freaked out at the same time). But a sort of buzzed, half-assed, "We can get married..." tentative suggestion as a solution to a problem that's silly in retrospect didn't exactly excite me. Getting married as a solution to a problem wouldn't excite me either. You guys haven't been together that long though in the grand scheme of things, therefore marriage should be on the backburner right now. Learning to work together as a couple takes years IMO. I'll admit, though I wanted to get married right away and very badly, I am glad that we just remained dating while working out issues that come up. Every couple has some things they need to work on, I think they are best done dating before getting to the hard part.
Author Star Gazer Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 IMO though, men don't refuse to marry a woman just because they are already living together. I think it's more of a "he's just not that into you" issue. I really do disagree. For some, it really is about convenience, and a sort of "why fix what isn't broken"/cow thing. I want to avoid that. I also want to avoid what my BF's brother said about his now-fiance. She too, was "on the fence" about living with him, by her own choice (she's traditional). She kept her own apartment, just for appearances-sake, and shuttled clothes and stuff back and forth (like I do/did). He said, and I quote, that he proposed because forcing her to remain on the fence and keeping her inconvenienced in that way "wasn't fair to her." IMO, that's no reason to get married! That's one of the reasons why I'm having a change of heart. Someday, whenever it happens, I want to be proposed to because the guy wants to marry me... not because he feels bad, or pressured. And Touche... was NOT!
Kamille Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 It was dumb luck mixed with a pinch of wisdom from lessons learned, in my case. I wish that for you guys too. Keep the faith, Marlena and Lishy! And me and me! I want some dumb luck mixed with a pinch of wisdom from lessons learned. I sure am working hard at learning my lessons!
Kamille Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Okay, all caught up on the thread now... I don't think it was a proposal, but I think it was deliberate and that it does mean marriage is a definite option for the two of you in his mind. And that this means it would happen sooner rather then later. So, in your shoes, and since it does sound like you want to marry him one day, I would be thrilled that he brought it up. Marriage is on the table now, and he put it there you know? So, while I fully understand you wanting a big romantic proposal, I would recommand recognizing his marriage solution as a step in the marriage direction. It's been said and you KNOW men don't use the word marriage lightly. The fact is, he considers you're it. You both want this in the somewhat near future, so encourage marriage talk, don't dismiss it.
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Why "oy vey"? Never mind. And me and me! I want some dumb luck mixed with a pinch of wisdom from lessons learned. I sure am working hard at learning my lessons! You cutie! Of course you too, Kamille! And SG...was SO!
Kamille Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 You cutie! Of course you too, Kamille! Thanks! Now I feel it! It will so be happening for me! And SG...was SO! LOL! Wanted to add, SG, what I meant by 'don't dismiss it" is this: don't dismiss it just because it doesn't match your idea of how marriage should be talked about. All my friends report that their husbands brought up marriage a bunch of ways and a bunch of times before doing the big proposal. In other words, men don't just wake up one day and go: that's it, I'm buying the ring, renting a helicopter and flying her to a remote beach this minute. They test the water first, see what marriage would mean to the both of you - the way he did. He brought it up in a discussion about the two of you as a couple, at a moment when he wanted you see just how committed he was to you and wanted you to feel that commitment. That, in my book, is big. I just hope you don't let your fears misrecognize that moment.
Touche Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Thanks! Now I feel it! It will so be happening for me! No question, Kamille! LOL! Wanted to add, SG, what I meant by 'don't dismiss it" is this: don't dismiss it just because it doesn't match your idea of how marriage should be talked about. All my friends report that their husbands brought up marriage a bunch of ways and a bunch of times before doing the big proposal. In other words, men don't just wake up one day and go: that's it, I'm buying the ring, renting a helicopter and flying her to a remote beach this minute. They test the water first, see what marriage would mean to the both of you - the way he did. He brought it up in a discussion about the two of you as a couple, at a moment when he wanted you see just how committed he was to you and wanted you to feel that commitment. That, in my book, is big. I just hope you don't let your fears misrecognize that moment. Absolutely, right. No question about it.
Author Star Gazer Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 He brought it up in a discussion about the two of you as a couple, at a moment when he wanted you see just how committed he was to you and wanted you to feel that commitment. That, in my book, is big. I know it is, and it meant a lot to me too. Really, it did.
Isolde Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 But your spouse should come FIRST above all else in this world. Then children. Then your family of origin. I don't have firsthand experience of this, but I really don't think everyone agrees with this. And that's okay. Know your own truth. But there are tons of people who put their children on an equal footing with their spouse; just in different ways.
Touche Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I don't have firsthand experience of this, but I really don't think everyone agrees with this. And that's okay. Know your own truth. But there are tons of people who put their children on an equal footing with their spouse; just in different ways. I get that most don't agree with my point of view. I do know my own truth. It's fine that most put their kids on an equal footing with their spouse. I get that. There are no different ways in my book to see it though. You either put your SO first above all others..or you don't. It's that simple, really.
Lyssa Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Where I am, once you are married - your spouse comes first. Family (parents, siblings) second. Not that that's a bad thing cause everything comes with a balance (or at least, my parents taught me that).
Isolde Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I get that most don't agree with my point of view. I do know my own truth. It's fine that most put their kids on an equal footing with their spouse. I get that. There are no different ways in my book to see it though. You either put your SO first above all others..or you don't. It's that simple, really. Since this is an individual thing, I won't discuss that further. Except, getting back to the original point of this posting: I agree that spouse comes before family of origin but even then, it doesn't usually have to mean that you actually forsake your parents and siblings. IMO, and this is something I DO have firsthand experience with, every strong relationship in life, helps strengthen other relationships, indirectly. Secondly, SG's in a transitional phase where these things need to be negotiated a bit differently than they would in a marriage. This is actually a good thing, because it allows her to work in constructive ways with her SO, before it becomes a huge pressure.
carhill Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 WRT priorities (family vs spouse), it's imperative that both partners be on the same page. BTDT, won't make that mistake again.
Touche Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I agree that spouse comes before family of origin but even then, it doesn't usually have to mean that you actually forsake your parents and siblings. I never said that the fact that your spouse comes before your family of origin means you forsake your parents and siblings. Never. I never said that. We agree.
sb129 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Been lurking on this thread- didn't have much else to contribute other than some of the other great advice thats been given out on here. With all due respect LB, I don't think SGs guy "isn't just that into her"...I think he is VERY "into her". I thought it was a little interesting that some of the advice you gave in that post was advice that you yourself have been given re: "if a man wants to marry you he will make it happen"! Give SG a break- her and her guy haven't been together for that long (long enough to be exclusive, but its still relatively new to be talking lifetime commitment- less than a year)- remember it took over a year for your BF to finally propose after you first started talking about it- and you had been together for more than 2 years. All my friends report that their husbands brought up marriage a bunch of ways and a bunch of times before doing the big proposal. In other words, men don't just wake up one day and go: that's it, I'm buying the ring, renting a helicopter and flying her to a remote beach this minute. They test the water first, see what marriage would mean to the both of you - the way he did. He brought it up in a discussion about the two of you as a couple, at a moment when he wanted you see just how committed he was to you and wanted you to feel that commitment. That, in my book, is big. I just hope you don't let your fears misrecognize that moment. I agree with this too. My H proposed almost exactly a year after we got together- but we were officially living together by that time and had talked about our future together and had made plans together that were about "us". We talked alot about our future and while I was bowled over when he DID propose, it wasn't the shock of the century because we both knew that we wanted to be the other ones future and had discussed it. Sounds like SG is at that kind of crossroads and her guy is simply testing the waters as to whether long term commitment is part of her game plan- a very wise and mature thing to do on his part.
Trialbyfire Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I have to giggle a bit in reference to anyone believing he's just not that into SG. NO MAN puts marriage on the table, if it's not on his mind. I will say that not every man tests the waters. Some take the immediate plunge with no warning. Surprise proposals have happened to me more than once. Having said that, the only way anyone will know if it was a real proposal, is to have been there and seen his expression and delivery, without being emotionally involved. Regardless, if you want this man SG, enable him in this direction.
Lauriebell82 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I wasn't referring directly to SG or her relationship with the "he's just not that into reference." That was a general point I was making. And I know it took my boyfriend a while to be ready for marriage. But he is now and that's what matters. It is interesting that the advice I gave was some that I have been given in the past. I just didnt want to believe it or was in denial, how the heck knows. My fiance made it happen, in a strange way though. Oh another interesting observation.. In one of my past threads everyone commented on how my boyfreind was "testing the waters" and that we moved in together for the wrong reason, he had no interest in marrying me, blah blah blah. But posters are saying the same thing about SG's bf except that it is a good thing and proposing after 7 or 8 months is great. I guess it just goes to show how posters react to different people in similar situations.
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