Why doesn't the husband/wife end the marriage?

[pkn06002]

Of course I didn't ask him, silly! I already know the answer, because if I WERE a nag he would tell ME - in no uncertain terms! We communicate quite honestly.

 

Well good I was worried that you would give him grief based on this thread.

[herenow]

It really should not be in this forum. But most OW/OM will not dare go into the infidelity forum.

 

Really? The infidelity forum is full of OW's voicing their opinion. Personally, I don't have a problem with it at all since the OW is part of the infidelity.

[herenow]

Gee, NID. Who COULD you be talking about? LMAO!!!

 

Completely without provocation, she actually said in one of her nasty posts that she hopes us women, who were prattling on about how good our men were, enjoy sharing them.

 

Well it's clear that she has no problem sharing her men.

[NoIDidn't]

Gee, NID. Who COULD you be talking about? LMAO!!!

 

Completely without provocation, she actually said in one of her nasty posts that she hopes us women, who were prattling on about how good our men were, enjoy sharing them.

 

Quite honestly, I wasn't talking about Lizzie. She is quite different in that regard. She's not out for the love of her life and is very likely to run the other way if one of her MM ever tries to end his marriage for a fulltime R with her. LOL.

 

No, it is a general attitude that some OW have agreed with Lizzie on because the MM in their case didn't turn out to be their knight in shining armor.

 

PKN is very lucky with this time period that he is posting in. When I first started posting here, if a MM showed up and started posting - he wasn't attacked by the BWs (he was understood a little more while not excused for cheating) but by the OWs!!! Big time. More than one left in a jiffy because of the constant "why did you lie to her", "why make promises you know you don't plan to keep", "why even get into an affair if you aren't prepared to leave" and other BS that was thrown at the poor men.

 

So, LOL, I wasn't speaking about anyone in particular. Lizzie and I have had our disagreements (Hi Liz) but I wasn't singling her out for her view this time.

[pkn06002]

Really? The infidelity forum is full of OW's voicing their opinion. Personally, I don't have a problem with it at all since the OW is part of the infidelity.

 

It is????

 

Can you name them?

 

Because other than Taylor and 2Sure who else is there?

 

I am one of the few OM that post over there.

[herenow]

It is????

 

Can you name them?

 

Because other than Taylor and 2Sure who else is there?

 

I am one of the few OM that post over there.

 

Here is a good example:

 

I posted a thread telling my story and giving BW's support. OW's came on that tread telling me that there is no way I could be telling the truth because I was still here posting and I must be lying about the fact that I'm happy.

 

Well, I'm not easily offended, so I just continued to post and still continue to post in hope that my story will help someone.

 

There are many times that OW's come to support threads for BW's and try to convince us that our H's will cheat again or the OW is really the love of his life and he only stays because of the kids. It's up to us to know what is true on our own lives and take the "advice" or opinions on these threads or leave them.

[pkn06002]

Now don't YOU be irrational. "Can you name them?"

 

Who can take the time to run through all the infidelity threads to glean the names of OW/OM posters?

 

Well she said there were a whole bunch so another name or two should be easy.

 

I know that Lizz post over there sometimes.

 

But past those three???

[stampdaddy]

It is????

 

Can you name them?

 

Because other than Taylor and 2Sure who else is there?

 

I am one of the few OM that post over there.

 

I am there.. can you see me?

[pkn06002]

Here is a good example:

 

I posted a thread telling my story and giving BW's support. OW's came on that tread telling me that there is no way I could be telling the truth because I was still here posting and I must be lying about the fact that I'm happy.

 

Well, I'm not easily offended, so I just continued to post and still continue to post in hope that my story will help someone.

 

There are many times that OW's come to support threads for BW's and try to convince us that our H's will cheat again or the OW is really the love of his life and he only stays because of the kids. It's up to us to know what is true on our own lives and take the "advice" or opinions on these threads or leave them.

 

I have seen what you are talking about in this forum but not the infidelity one.

 

Really does not matter everyone should just play nice.

[herenow]

I have seen what you are talking about in this forum but not the infidelity one.

 

Really does not matter everyone should just play nice.

 

OK, I'll try. No promises.

[pkn06002]

I am there.. can you see me?

 

For the MM I just said I am one of the few I did not list names.

 

Smarty

[Gamine]

In my previous post I mentioned that the OW (in my situation) did not know of the regret, remorse, tears or the therapy that followed in the wake of the affair. I realize that I did not mention that the regret, remorse, tears and therapy pertained to my husband. He has confided in me that he has come to despise and truly hate the former OW because he was screwed up emotionally at the time and he believes that she, if she cared about him at all, would have left him alone and wouldn't have preyed on his vulnerabilities at that moment in time.

 

Now he has added her name to the list of people he has hated the most in his lifetime. He admits his responsibility in the whole thing because he is married. She was also married.

 

I now have a man who says that he wakes up every morning feeling totally sad and filled with such remorse over having broken his marriage vow. A proud man, he is only just starting therapy one year later to find out why he would have done such a thing to himself and me. It shows to me that he is very upset about it.

 

He explained to me it was like he was feeling really insecure at the time and she fed him what he needed... which was approval. He wasn't honest with her about himself or his feelings. For if he had been honest, he would have left our home for her. I told him that all I care about is him being happy and if she made him happy he should be with her. I did not make any demands on him, because I wouldn't want a man who wanted someone else.

 

He also describes that it felt like a fantasy to him more than reality. The fantasy was in the sexually charged approval for him offered with no strings. Now he sees it as someone who took advantage of him when he was in a bad place.

 

I realize that I'm probably going to hear all sorts of abuse over this post, however I wanted to share with you the details of what happened with my husband... emotionally and personally... in the wake of the affair.

 

I think we should love who we love. I'm not going to say that I am a 'supporter' of infidelity because I'm not. But what I can say is that I think that people should love who they want to love, yet there may be easier ways of going about it than having to cheat to get what one wants. Marriage is voluntary. The thing that bothered me the most about the affair was that I felt that if he wasn't happy he should have said so and I would have happily let him go. The sneaking around and the drama was totally unnecessary to me. I'm a free spirit and simply because I am his wife doesn't mean that I want to be the ball and chain to anyone. By cheating I was denied the right to find someone who would love me the way I want. That was the thing that was most difficult. There I was with a guy who had problems and was seeing someone else behind my back. He didn't have to go behind my back to have another woman if he wanted that. I would have let him go and by being respectful to me in telling me... I would not have been deprived my liberty in finding someone who would love me the way I want to be loved.

[pkn06002]

The he is free to walk away??? Really what free to pay thousands of dollars for the iffy feeling he had? That is the problem with the all so easy divorce idea.

 

Gamine your husband has blame shifted to the OW. Saying she preyed on him etc... that is a bunch of bull. He was vulnerable and receptive just like I was. I don't blame the OW one bit, it was my choice and my decision. Oh and yes the OW came after me to start things off.

[2sure]

He has confided in me that he has come to despise and truly hate the former OW because he was screwed up emotionally at the time and he believes that she, if she cared about him at all, would have left him alone and wouldn't have preyed on his vulnerabilities at that moment in time.

 

Now he has added her name to the list of people he has hated the most in his lifetime. He admits his responsibility in the whole thing because he is married. She was also married.

 

Gamine - my H and have stuck it out after his infidelity and I can tell you that it has been a journey well worth it. I'm so glad I didnt leave him. It has been a learning experience for both of us.

 

Having traveled that road, along with many other BS on here...Your husband's behavior is not unusual. I would say however, that both you and he seem to see HIM as the victim of his infidelity. To the point that it seems like all OW's fault. I would also be concerned even more that he has a LIST of people he hates MOST. And that OW, who he risked his marriage for is on it . Truly, thats alarming.

[stampdaddy]

I would say however, that both you and he seem to see HIM as the victim of his infidelity. To the point that it seems like all OW's fault. I would also be concerned even more that he has a LIST of people he hates MOST. And that OW, who he risked his marriage for is on it . Truly, thats alarming.

 

I was thinking the same thing... Of course I don't know the whole story, but my goodness.. This is a grown man, with a wife and a family and a job and a house and all the rest of the responsibilities that go along with it. To be blameless for an affair and having in be the OW's COMPLETE fault? How does that REALLY make you feel? Seriously? Do you stand by his side and say "bad OW, bad.. You are very bad girl...?" Just sayin'

[Owl]

The he is free to walk away??? Really what free to pay thousands of dollars for the iffy feeling he had? That is the problem with the all so easy divorce idea.

 

Gamine your husband has blame shifted to the OW. Saying she preyed on him etc... that is a bunch of bull. He was vulnerable and receptive just like I was. I don't blame the OW one bit, it was my choice and my decision. Oh and yes the OW came after me to start things off.

 

You know PK, that's something I don't think that people "get" sometimes.

 

My wife was to blame for her choices and decisions leading up to and during her emotional affair. This includes her lies and deception of me to convince me that nothing was going on.

 

OM was to blame for pursuing her, and for coming up with all kinds of rationalizations and justifications that what they were doing was "ok". He was also to blame for lying and deceiving me...his "friend".

 

Neither was blameless.

 

In order for me to decide to reconcile...I had to learn to forgive my wife. That doesn't mean that she wasn't to blame...that meant I forgave her.

 

There was never any kind of "reconciliation" of my friendship with OM. Ergo...there was never any true requirement for me to forgive him either. I would say that I have forgiven him, at least to some extent. I can look at it and understand why he did the things he did. I don't hold him any real ill will...as long as he remains out of my life and hers. However...if he attempted to muck things up again...all bets are off. (which is why I add the "to some extent" qualifier).

 

And I get your point about the cost of divorce.

 

Which is the more difficult "price" to pay? The dollars spent in divorce proceedings, or the emotional trauma and devestation that is caused by the affair?

 

BS's typically have one view of that...WS's will vary on their answer to that last question, depending on a lot of things.

 

But it's why you get the response you get...make sense?

[pkn06002]

 

And I get your point about the cost of divorce.

 

Which is the more difficult "price" to pay? The dollars spent in divorce proceedings, or the emotional trauma and devestation that is caused by the affair?

 

BS's typically have one view of that...WS's will vary on their answer to that last question, depending on a lot of things.

 

But it's why you get the response you get...make sense?

 

Oh I understand the BS view point on the whole divorce idea. It is a reaction to the whole emotional pain I get that. But to me personally it is a simple answer that just does not hold water.

 

I will admit I am not that emotional of a person so the reason the emotional cost does not really hit me.

[Gamine]

I am financially self sufficient and I bought the home we live in before we were married. So there is no financial concern regarding the impact of divorce. He also does well in his business so money isn't the issue here.

 

I believe that, for some reason, individual words are focused upon without taking the whole into consideration. I shared with you HIS point of view. Blameshifting or not that is his feeling.

 

And, I shared my feeling. I was 35 yrs. old when we married, was beautiful (a model) and had many options. I still do and that is the point.

 

To me, cheating wasn't necessary. In other words, from my point of view he didn't have to cheat to get what he wanted. I wasn't hanging onto him, forcing him to be married to me or engaging in a battle over his affections with the OW. There seems to be a false concept of the WIFE as perhaps a wholly inadequate old dog who has lost her je ne sais quoi and no longer acts like a woman. Who nags, isn't interested in sex, has let herself go, etc..

 

I'm successful, beautiful (inside and out), and care very much about the well being of others. In fact, I put others in need in front of my wants... The thing that bothered me about the infidelity was that it was sort of a game being played by the two of them. I was put into the category of WIFE... the one who he is stuck with.... who doesn't satisfy him etc... Poor him.

My sympathies.

 

No one forced him to marry me or to remain married to me. If I wasn't all that and a bag of chips why not just say so and go for the gusto? Cut me loose so I can live my life and find a man who would love me and who I could love the way I want. Why does the tail wag the dog in this situation? My husband was free to go, after all why would I want to hold him back if I no longer floated his boat?

 

The affair was more of a game than anything played between the two of them... because frankly, why the need to not live in reality? I am about the most imperfect woman on the face of this planet so I wouldn't go and waste anyone's time in saying that I'm this ethereal goddess. I'm just me.

 

The affair denies the spouse the right to choice. If I knew he wasn't into me or the marriage... fine. Let me go. Cut me loose. One time he got me so pissed that I signed up for Match.com I had 60 emails within 12 hours.

 

So, maybe one man's spoils is another man's gain? I don't know... but I just don't see the point in a married guy having an affair if he can do what he wants and divorce when he wants.

 

In the over 13 years we have been married I've never cheated on him... in fact, I have never cheated on any man in my history. If the situation wasn't right for me I moved on. I didn't lie or supplement anything I wasn't getting from the guy I was with. I saw it as "hey, this isn't working for me...so it's time to move on...". When you get down to it there's no reason (we don't have kids) to cheat. I would have driven him to her house if that is what made him happy, because his happiness... and mine... is all that matters.

[Owl]

Oh I understand the BS view point on the whole divorce idea. It is a reaction to the whole emotional pain I get that. But to me personally it is a simple answer that just does not hold water.

 

I will admit I am not that emotional of a person so the reason the emotional cost does not really hit me.

 

There you go.

 

For you...the affair is much less of a "bad option", because it didn't emotionally cost YOU much...at least not when balanced against the financial cost of divorce.

 

That might be a pretty typical mindset of many WS's, when you get right down to it.

 

Out of curiousity...and not attacking you...do you think you're "not being that emotional of a person" may have contributed to the whole situation, alongside your wife's issues as well?

[White Flower]

In my previous post I mentioned that the OW (in my situation) did not know of the regret, remorse, tears or the therapy that followed in the wake of the affair. I realize that I did not mention that the regret, remorse, tears and therapy pertained to my husband. He has confided in me that he has come to despise and truly hate the former OW because he was screwed up emotionally at the time and he believes that she, if she cared about him at all, would have left him alone and wouldn't have preyed on his vulnerabilities at that moment in time.

 

Now he has added her name to the list of people he has hated the most in his lifetime. He admits his responsibility in the whole thing because he is married. She was also married.

 

I now have a man who says that he wakes up every morning feeling totally sad and filled with such remorse over having broken his marriage vow. A proud man, he is only just starting therapy one year later to find out why he would have done such a thing to himself and me. It shows to me that he is very upset about it.

 

He explained to me it was like he was feeling really insecure at the time and she fed him what he needed... which was approval. He wasn't honest with her about himself or his feelings. For if he had been honest, he would have left our home for her. I told him that all I care about is him being happy and if she made him happy he should be with her. I did not make any demands on him, because I wouldn't want a man who wanted someone else.

 

He also describes that it felt like a fantasy to him more than reality. The fantasy was in the sexually charged approval for him offered with no strings. Now he sees it as someone who took advantage of him when he was in a bad place.

 

I realize that I'm probably going to hear all sorts of abuse over this post, however I wanted to share with you the details of what happened with my husband... emotionally and personally... in the wake of the affair.

 

I think we should love who we love. I'm not going to say that I am a 'supporter' of infidelity because I'm not. But what I can say is that I think that people should love who they want to love, yet there may be easier ways of going about it than having to cheat to get what one wants. Marriage is voluntary. The thing that bothered me the most about the affair was that I felt that if he wasn't happy he should have said so and I would have happily let him go. The sneaking around and the drama was totally unnecessary to me. I'm a free spirit and simply because I am his wife doesn't mean that I want to be the ball and chain to anyone. By cheating I was denied the right to find someone who would love me the way I want. That was the thing that was most difficult. There I was with a guy who had problems and was seeing someone else behind my back. He didn't have to go behind my back to have another woman if he wanted that. I would have let him go and by being respectful to me in telling me... I would not have been deprived my liberty in finding someone who would love me the way I want to be loved.

I like the way you see things, Gamine. I feel exactly as you do; if my guy doesn't love me anymore I will set him free. No contract, child, financial matter, whatever anchor will tie him down to me. I need sincerity and it sounds like you do too. That is why it is hard to understand why your H did what he did because if he knew you he would have understood this.

 

Or maybe he actually likes clingy women who control him just a little bit? He could fall into that category. I will look for the Towdipper article for you and post it later.

 

And I agree with others, your H is blameshifting onto the OW. Just a few days ago, my friend who is a former WS told me that his W is doing very well 2 years after D-day. They've rebuilt their M but one thing comes up that he kind of sidesteps. She keeps blaming the whole A on 'that whore who seduced you' which is his W's way of accepting the whole situation. As long as the OW was a ceiling scratching, sex driven fiend then it wasn't her H's fault and they can move on and forget about it.

 

My friend says of course she wasn't a whore and he had every responsibility in the A that the OW had. He knows this is just his W's way of dealing with it because it is easier than accepting that he actually loved the OW and would still be with her if he didn't get caught. Maybe she believes the more she says it, the more her H will be likely to accept the label of the OW and see her as undesirable. But that will never happen.

[pkn06002]

There you go.

 

For you...the affair is much less of a "bad option", because it didn't emotionally cost YOU much...at least not when balanced against the financial cost of divorce.

 

That might be a pretty typical mindset of many WS's, when you get right down to it.

 

Out of curiousity...and not attacking you...do you think you're "not being that emotional of a person" may have contributed to the whole situation, alongside your wife's issues as well?

 

 

Humm you ask an interesting question.

 

I know that emotionally it was easier to enter into the affair because of that fact.

 

Now I will say I did let my guard down and did become emotional in the affair towards the end. Got all caught up in the dream as it were. Got burned as well. (shrug)

 

Now not saying I am not caring. Emotional and caring are two different things for me. It is a bit hard to describe. I have gotten burned in the past when I have been very emotional so I control those feelings very much. Which you can take as being a bit cold. I do have to have a level of trust that has only been meet 3 times to fully open up. No my wife is not one of those three.

[NoIDidn't]

And I agree with others, your H is blameshifting onto the OW. Just a few days ago, my friend who is a former WS told me that his W is doing very well 2 years after D-day. They've rebuilt their M but one thing comes up that he kind of sidesteps. She keeps blaming the whole A on 'that whore who seduced you' which is his W's way of accepting the whole situation. As long as the OW was a ceiling scratching, sex driven fiend then it wasn't her H's fault and they can move on and forget about it.

 

My friend says of course she wasn't a whore and he had every responsibility in the A that the OW had. He knows this is just his W's way of dealing with it because it is easier than accepting that he actually loved the OW and would still be with her if he didn't get caught. Maybe she believes the more she says it, the more her H will be likely to accept the label of the OW and see her as undesirable. But that will never happen.

 

I don't think I'd say that these folks are blame-shifting. The MM that knows some things about the OW that a BW is not privvy to, doesn't make him blameshifting, per se. He is still processing his way through his actions. Its a phase that will pass.

 

And the BW that calls the OW a "whore" that seduced her WH doesn't make her blameshifting either. Let's face it. The OW was trying to seduce him out of the marriage by trying to "love" him more than he and she thought his W did. That is a seduction. I agree though, that the more she says doesn't mean her H is going to believe it. I highly doubt that this marriage is doing well two years out considering he's going behind her talking positively about someone he knows she despises with good reason. It sounds like he gave her the impression that he wanted her to have and is now trying to have his cake and eat it too.

 

I have mixed feelings about blame in general. What good does it do when whatever happened has already happened? Examining the "whys" doesn't mean finding someone or something to blame. It just means finding solutions to the problems that led to them. But what do I know? I have been known to blame people for things that it seemed their obvious hand in them influenced the outcome. <shrugs>

[pkn06002]

Gamine

 

Even though I get what your saying a marriage cannot just be walked away from like any other type of relationship, you know that. So the simple idea of he could just tell you and walk away is pure fantasy. Which is why I have such a hard time when people say that.

[pkn06002]

Then why in the WORLD did you marry her?!

 

Went over that in another thread when Taylor asked the same question.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183175&page=6

 

Post #76

[White Flower]

I don't think I'd say that these folks are blame-shifting. The MM that knows some things about the OW that a BW is not privvy to, doesn't make him blameshifting, per se. He is still processing his way through his actions. Its a phase that will pass.

 

And the BW that calls the OW a "whore" that seduced her WH doesn't make her blameshifting either. Let's face it. The OW was trying to seduce him out of the marriage by trying to "love" him more than he and she thought his W did. That is a seduction. I agree though, that the more she says doesn't mean her H is going to believe it. I highly doubt that this marriage is doing well two years out considering he's going behind her talking positively about someone he knows she despises with good reason. It sounds like he gave her the impression that he wanted her to have and is now trying to have his cake and eat it too.

 

I have mixed feelings about blame in general. What good does it do when whatever happened has already happened? Examining the "whys" doesn't mean finding someone or something to blame. It just means finding solutions to the problems that led to them. But what do I know? I have been known to blame people for things that it seemed their obvious hand in them influenced the outcome. <shrugs>

Agreed that her H is going through the phases of understanding why he did what he did. He may not blame the Ow later on.

 

His M is doing well. I don't see him as going behind her back when he tells me that he doesn't see his exOW as a whore. I think it is a touchy subject at home and it is better left unsaid to her. He probably fears that if he defends the OWs reputation that W will think he still loves her and wants to be with her. Not so. He does not want his cake and eat it too as he is working very hard in counseling to understand how to make himself happy WITHOUT having an A. Most men wouldn't spend two years doing that. And there is nothing wrong with talking about anyone positively if there is nothing negative to talk about. He really feels that his W CHOOSES to believe what she does about the OW because it is EASIER to cope with it that way. As long as the OW was bad, her H is good now that it is over. Of course this is not true, but he keeps quiet because it is her way of dealing with it.