Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[soserious1]

Men never asked to be liberated by feminists in the first place. The ironic thing is that these pro-feminist men that the women on here claim to love are the ones who get dumped on by women over and over again. My friend who just had his wife cheat on him and leave him used to call me a male chauvinist pig all the time who made other men look bad and look what happend to him. To a feminist an enlightened man is just a tool to be used against other men and discarded when she is done with him. Sooner or later you will do something to anger her and you will end up in the doghouse with the rest of the male gender. I'm sick and tired of women trying to tell men how to be men anyway. They need to worry about their own lives and stop trying to tell men how to live ours.

 

I have no problem with that, men tend to get REALLY angry though when you tell them that you've got no interest in sharing your paycheck with them, cooking, cleaning for them and no interest in remaining sexually faithful to them.

 

 

Men are entirely free to live their own lives as they see fit... but so am I

[AAlike]

You say it's not harmful but a lot of women on this site say it _is_ harmful. Who should we believe? Remember, every alcoholic will tell you he can stop drinking anytime he wants and it's no big deal.

 

Scott

 

and every addict will tell you that it's not the vice, it's the addict him/herself.

 

porn is no more inherently harmful than any of the other things that I mentioned. people get addicted to sex too - does that mean that sex is harmful?

[sxyNYCcpl]

You say it's not harmful but a lot of women on this site say it _is_ harmful.

 

Unless your own personal morality is built upon the foundation of super-strict sexual rules, because of religious considerations or for whatever reason, having a problem with occasional, non-compulsive use of erotic imagery is indicative of either an overly controlling personality, or more commonly the reaction of someone's insecurities. If you do hold such strict moral codes, it's best that you find someone of similar values because if you don't, occasional porn use will end up being just a little problem amongst a sea of big ones.

 

Yes, if it's compulsive, if it's out of control, if it's being used in LIEU of sexual activity with one's SO, those are all problems. But the same could be said of ANY activity, no matter how common or benign. Collecting coins, if compulsive, out of control, and causing unwanted sexual droughts is also a problem, but the coins are not at fault.

 

Who should we believe? Remember, every alcoholic will tell you he can stop drinking anytime he wants and it's no big deal.

 

True, but every non-alcoholic who drinks would say the same thing and be telling the truth. So denial, in and of itself, can not be used as evidence of an underlying problem.

 

I'm still waiting for JS to respond to my posting from yesterday, I really am curious why it would be bad to ask your SO to wear thigh-highs or try a new position if knowledge of such things came from porn. The underlying problem with the porn-is-always-evil-no-matter-what crowd is that the fundamental assumption one must believe to think that is flawed. That assumption is that your SO/lover/spouse/whatever will be 100% fixated on you for 100% of their sexuality 100% of the time, and that simply runs contrary to human nature. That has not, is not, and will never be true of any human being. Period.

[Jersey Shortie]

geez, you go away for a day or two...haha...

 

Try not to be too upset when it happens. I know the seperation of my angst filled posts causes you to have JerseyShortie withdrawl but be strong.

 

again, I disagree - I think that the stance that most men here are taking are that only YOU are placing the importance on it.

 

That's rather untrue and you know it. If something truly isn't important to you, you don't spend your time looking at it, defending it or encouraging other's to use it. I'm not a Jew and I don't believe in what the Jewish belief system does. It would be ridiculous to say that I go to temple once a week, that I engage in some Jewish holidays "once in awhile" and then spend my time defending it to others and turning around and saying it's not important to me when it's clear tha ton some level, it is.

 

There is a huge gap between men saying it's not important yet defending it to the death, or hiding it from their partners, or down playing it's importance in their lives. Something I think the majority of men do infact do. I don't think men do it on purpose all the time, I think men are hyper- sensitive to their own dependecy on porn.

 

No one here is on this huge pro-porn crusade saying how important it is in their life -

 

Not in the words you predescribed. But it's clear that it is important to men and their sexuality based on the way men treat it in a discussion. ANd how men behave in the real world when it comes to porn.

 

....rather they are reacting to the notion that them doing something that is essentially regarded as normal is actually some expression of sexism and subjugation.

 

Sex is normal. Masturbation is normal. Being attracted to other members of the opposite sex is normal. The medium of what porn is is not normal. It IS full of sexism and subjugation. You are really going to tell me you can't see that? Come on, I think most men are intelligent enough to see how the women in porn are treated in a sexist subjugated way.

 

 

In all honesty I really wouldn't care if you told me that I could never watch another porno in my life (and if my GF was bothered by it, I would certainly chuck it at her request without thinking twice - although I can't imagine dating someone that was threatened by it).

 

Easy for you to say when you don't know what it's like to be a woman when your boyfriend is staring at all these images of surgically enhanced, photoshopped women in porn or Maxim or the million other avenues men take to satisfy themselves "visually". Men seem to forget one basic need for women. And it seems like men are more eager to satisfy the attention whoring ways of other women then make their own partner sexy.

 

However, I certainly take issue with the implication that BECAUSE of my one-a-month porn viewing, which, ideally I simply use in order to make masturbation slightly more efficient and could certainly do without, that I am sending an implicit message that my girlfriend is somehow inadequate. that, quite frankly, is crap.

 

It's the message alot of women take with them when confronted with their partners porn use. Just because you think it' crap, doesn't mean it is. Really, you aren't faced with such an extreme hypersexual and sexist medium that builds men up to over the top examples of manhood that your girlfriend is making sure to get a regular dose of. You forget about all the messages women receive about their looks and bodies and how hard we do fight those stereotypes of ideals. Only to find that our own boyfriends and husbands buy right into the exact stereotypes we try hard to fight against.

 

 

this is not a "feminist" issue at all as others have suggested.

 

I don't think it's a feminist issue either.

 

 

In an earlier post I said something to the effect of "you have an issue with male sexuality" - let me now officially retract that statement, since I'm not trying to start some corny "battle of the sexes," and change it to "I think that you are misinterpreting innate male sexuality."

 

That is a more fair statement and I do appreicate you retracting youre previous comment. I actually would agree that I don't understand male sexuality or men. But that clearly works both ways. And the excuse "Well I am a man" to defend something that I think is crappy behavior doesn't work in really trying to work with the other gender.

 

 

The reason that I use that example is that for men there is a clear delineation between instinctual visual stimulization versus intimacy that women do not have, or even if some do it is not as pronounced and primal

 

That doesn't mean it's okay that men go about their day trying to self gratify every little whim of fancy of visual desire they please. I get it, it's been said a million times a day. Men are "visual". But how does that justfy seeking out other women indirectly when a man willingly puts himself in a spot to be committed to one woman? Why should it make a woman feel better that her man wants to get action on the side from porn because of his "visual desires" and expect her to spread her legs for him too? I really love cheese cake, doesn't mean i go out and eat it any time I feel a little twinge to do so. I'd be fat. I use self control for the greater outcome. Are men not able to use self control? Or is it that they just don't really want to because ultimately it's too difficult.

 

So for men, we've been getting aroused from all sorts of visual stimuli since we turned 12 - it's completely mundane for us at this juncture. The statement that I hear so often on here - "men like variety" - is very misleading. The more accurate statement would be "men like a variety of visual stimuli."

 

 

It's the same thing. Men want the emotional stability and love from a girlfriend and the benefits of getting any kind of outside fantasy stimulation from x number of girls he can. Why even bother being in a relationship with one woman? Do you not get how discouraging it is that a man is always on the hunt for *new* visual stimuli. Why should that make a woman feel like being open to her partner? It doesn't for alot of women.

 

so all of this hyperanalysis of porn that you're doing, it's lost on us - it doesn't play nearly the role for us that you think that it does. you say things like we "NEED" porn, we "CAN'T" be happy without it - those are terms that you apply to an addict, not a normal guy - so of course we are going to take a WTF type stance.

 

I think porn plays a deeper rule in men's lives then they care to really be honest about. If you really look at porn, it is riddled with deep pyschological issues of men towards women. I think more men are addicted to porn on some level then they care to admit. What is the "normal guy" anyway? With the boon of the internet it's become so ingrained in men and boys lives i don't even think you can really classify what is normal and that men today aren't addicted to it on some level. We live i na nation where people over eat, over spend and do alot of things "over time". You think porn is different? Wrong. It's probably even mroe ingrained because it's something yo ucan get online behind closed doors.

 

 

you can say "well I want a guy that will not get aroused by anyone but me" which seems to be your MO here - that's fine, but I hate to tell you that that guy is either lying to you or is suppressing his natural urges so much that he's probably going to feel trapped.

 

I don't expect him to never be aroused by another person. I expect more self control them most men want to give their own partner.

 

you take away his porn, he'll probably start having impure thoughts about the weathergirl, or Oprah, or the cashier at the grocery store, whatever. I'm sorry that this is such a tough thing for you to get over, and I hope you do, I really do, because you're fighting what is essentially a completely futile battle, shortie.

 

 

Come on, men already have impure thoughts about all of the above mentioned. Women can't win. If it's not the girl in porn it is the weather girl because it's better to be a man's fantasy then his reality. All that matters is a man statisfies his sexual desires. That's number one for most men. Despite what a girlfriend/wife might do. He still will be thinking about banging other women. But it doesn't matter..your the man right? That's what matters.

[Jersey Shortie]

I'm still waiting for JS to respond to my posting from yesterday, I really am curious why it would be bad to ask your SO to wear thigh-highs or try a new position if knowledge of such things came from porn. The underlying problem with the porn-is-always-evil-no-matter-what crowd is that the fundamental assumption one must believe to think that is flawed.

 

 

Why don't you try reading my whole post in reference to this topic? You took one small part and ran with it. Men often justfy porn as being okay because it's "fantasy". Implying they dont want it to be real. Yet there are a hell of alot of men out there that want their partner to *do* the fantasy. It's not just a "fantasy". It's a fantasy that men want to make a reality. It's not harmless. Men want women to look like the fantasy. It's affected people's perceptions of sex and if you don't think it's affected men's perceptions of women, you are naive.

[AAlike]

 

I'm still waiting for JS to respond to my posting from yesterday, I really am curious why it would be bad to ask your SO to wear thigh-highs or try a new position if knowledge of such things came from porn. The underlying problem with the porn-is-always-evil-no-matter-what crowd is that the fundamental assumption one must believe to think that is flawed. That assumption is that your SO/lover/spouse/whatever will be 100% fixated on you for 100% of their sexuality 100% of the time, and that simply runs contrary to human nature. That has not, is not, and will never be true of any human being. Period.

 

give this guy a prize...

[Jersey Shortie]

100%? I don't even think men can fixate on their partners 20% of the time with all the outside sexual stimulation they want to defend. Many Men are apparently drones to their computers when it comes to sexuality. But that's a real man right? one who sits infront of his computer with his penis in his hand and a dopy look on his face..that's what sexuality is about..that's excitment..that's living right?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Men often justfy porn as being okay because it's "fantasy". Implying they dont want it to be real. Yet there are a hell of alot of men out there that want their partner to *do* the fantasy. It's not just a "fantasy". It's a fantasy that men want to make a reality.

 

I've asked you this 100 times and you never answered before. Perhaps 101 is the charm.

 

Which parts do you routinely find "men" want their partner to *do* that you find offensive? There are so many aspects to what gets labeled as "porn" that your blanket statements simply don't apply.

 

Don't like doggie style? Find oral sex degrading? Or perhaps your partner wants to try an orgy? A little BDSM? What if he is the one who wants to be tied up? Or perhaps you find the idea that sex can occur at places other than a bedroom as grounds for offense? What is it that grinds your goat so much?

 

Or is it the clothing? Do you find high-heels anti-woman? Thongs are the root of all evil?

 

Some *do* want their life to emulate porn. I am one of those, and my life is frequently kinkier than many actual porn movies. Mostly for this reason, I rarely view porn because compared to my reality, it's fairly boring. However, I recognize that I am in the minority about such things, and as such I have gone out of my way to find a partner who is on the same page. On the other hand, you are looking for someone who DOES NOT EXIST.

 

It's not harmless. Men want women to look like the fantasy. It's affected people's perceptions of sex and if you don't think it's affected men's perceptions of women, you are naive.

 

More blanket nonsense. HOW has it affected men's perception of women? HOW is that bad? Does it also affect women's perception of men?

 

It's bad to recognize that women can be sexual creatures, too? And that they can actually enjoy it and become empowered in their own lives because of it?

[a4a]

I've asked you this 100 times and you never answered before. Perhaps 101 is the charm.

 

Which parts do you routinely find "men" want their partner to *do* that you find offensive? There are so many aspects to what gets labeled as "porn" that your blanket statements simply don't apply.

 

Don't like doggie style? Find oral sex degrading? Or perhaps your partner wants to try an orgy? A little BDSM? What if he is the one who wants to be tied up? Or perhaps you find the idea that sex can occur at places other than a bedroom as grounds for offense? What is it that grinds your goat so much?

 

Or is it the clothing? Do you find high-heels anti-woman? Thongs are the root of all evil?

 

Some *do* want their life to emulate porn. I am one of those, and my life is frequently kinkier than many actual porn movies. Mostly for this reason, I rarely view porn because compared to my reality, it's fairly boring. However, I recognize that I am in the minority about such things, and as such I have gone out of my way to find a partner who is on the same page. On the other hand, you are looking for someone who DOES NOT EXIST.

 

 

 

More blanket nonsense. HOW has it affected men's perception of women? HOW is that bad? Does it also affect women's perception of men?

 

It's bad to recognize that women can be sexual creatures, too? And that they can actually enjoy it and become empowered in their own lives because of it?[/QUOTE]

 

 

Bravo Bravo......... and I might dig getting tied up and tickled with a feather.... is that demeaning?

[a4a]

I got it!

 

porn teaches men to only see women as sex objects and their only worth their weight in boobies.

 

I am so sorry men are so stupid and that porn was able to lead them astray like this. All men must be mindless to fall for such a thing.

 

Before porn men never would have looked at a chick and thought "wonder what it would be like to hit that?"

[soserious1]

I got it!

 

porn teaches men to only see women as sex objects and their only worth their weight in boobies.

 

I am so sorry men are so stupid and that porn was able to lead them astray like this. All men must be mindless to fall for such a thing.

 

Before porn men never would have looked at a chick and thought "wonder what it would be like to hit that?"

 

You know I have no problem with the idea that men see and are visually aroused by a ton of different women. I have no problem with the idea that over time the thought of sex with me will become less and less appealing to a man because we've become too familar.

 

What bothers me is that women are expected to uphold a higher level of behavior in order to keep that tired old social concept known as "monogamy" rolling. We're supposed to turn a blind eye to the porn, strip clubs, ogling women in the streets and we're supposed to also praise men because they've managed to not accidently have their Johnson's fall into another woman.

 

To all of that I say why bother ? Why do men get offended when a woman declines to enter a sexual exclusive relationship ? Why do men get mad when women openly tell them that they do not desire monogamy ?

 

I don't want to be exclusive with another man, I don't want what feels like a huge lie to me.This seems to anger guys, they want porn, strip clubs and a mealy mouthed lil'l wifey keeping the home fires burning all the while praising him for the "huge sacrifice"he's making in being physically faithful to her"

 

Why isn't freedom enough for guys? If a wide variety of stimulation is important to you, why not avoid the sham of committed relationships?

[Jersey Shortie]

I've asked you this 100 times and you never answered before. Perhaps 101 is the charm.

 

Sweetie, I have answered your question before. You just don't like the answer I give you.

 

 

Don't like doggie style? Find oral sex degrading? Or perhaps your partner wants to try an orgy? A little BDSM? What if he is the one who wants to be tied up? Or perhaps you find the idea that sex can occur at places other than a bedroom as grounds for offense? What is it that grinds your goat so much?

 

Or is it the clothing? Do you find high-heels anti-woman? Thongs are the root of all evil?

 

You've missed the point I was making. Which really has little to do what a partner asks and has to do with the fact that alot of men justify porn use by saying it's "fantasy", "it's not real", " I don't want that"..when clearly they do when they ask a partner to engage in any number or sex acts they saw in porn. Defending porn by saying "it's just fantasy" is clearly mote with the amount of men that actually take it the level of wanting to make it reality. It's not just "fantasy". It's something men want to be real. There is this big consession people try to make that porn is "fantasy" and that real life is "reality". But often, men are more then happy to make the "fantasy" the reality. Thus wiping out any claims that it's just fantasy, it's not real and that they don't really want it. Does this apply to you? clearly not since you seem to be a just about anything goes man. That's fine. But it does apply to many other people.

 

 

On the other hand, you are looking for someone who DOES NOT EXIST.

 

I'm looking for a man to be a man and not want to hide behind his computer to live out his life. That doesn't exist?

 

More blanket nonsense. HOW has it affected men's perception of women? HOW is that bad? Does it also affect women's perception of men?

 

Spare me. You throw around general comments all the time but that's okay right? When men freely think it's okay to call any woman, in a porn movie or not, derogatory names, it's affected men's perception of women. How many men hold themselves on a pedestal, yet condemn the very women they get pleasure from? All you have to do is look at the level of misogny that can often appear in porn to see a perception that is deeply pyschological. Porn reflects what men desire. It's a window into those dark parts and frankly, it's clear that alot of men don't really value women. It does men no service either. It makes me seem like self centered women-hating brutes.

 

 

It's bad to recognize that women can be sexual creatures, too? And that they can actually enjoy it and become empowered in their own lives because of it?

 

Firstly, porn has nothing to do with celebrating a woman's individual sexality and everything to do with showing women acting more like men and responding more like men to sex. It's about men wanting women to act more like them when it comes to sex but with boobs and ass. That's not recongnizing women are sexual creatures in their own right. THat's wanting the other gender to cater to your own personal desires.

 

Secondly, porn doesn't empower women. Most women that o porn do so because they have limited options. Most, not all. Porn isn't about empowering women. if it was, men would be more eager to really celebrate women and their sexuality as it is as a woman, not how men want it to be in a fantasy.

 

 

 

 

I got it!

 

porn teaches men to only see women as sex objects and their only worth their weight in boobies.

 

I am so sorry men are so stupid and that porn was able to lead them astray like this. All men must be mindless to fall for such a thing.

 

Before porn men never would have looked at a chick and thought "wonder what it would be like to hit that?"

 

Oh your being silly, no one ever said anything like that. :laugh Be realistic. More and more young boys see porn earlier and are seeing much more graphic stuff then their fathers. It has and will continue to influence boys who turn into men. I never said men were stupid. But I am realistic about what long term advertising does and why it works so effectively.

[You'reasian]

I have no problem with that, men tend to get REALLY angry though when you tell them that you've got no interest in sharing your paycheck with them, cooking, cleaning for them and no interest in remaining sexually faithful to them.

 

 

Men are entirely free to live their own lives as they see fit... but so am I

 

I earn my own paycheck, cook better than most women , clean up after myself (except the weekend maybe) and have some decent hobbies.

 

makes me feel strange yet greatly appreciative when a woman doesn't mind cooking or cleaning, yet women in other parts of the world are ok taking the lead in these areas.

[You'reasian]

 

I'm looking for a man to be a man and not want to hide behind his computer to live out his life. That doesn't exist?

 

I look for women who like men

 

Wanna race in a triathlon?

 

Seeing that I hide behind a computer with no hobbies and don't live out my life, I'm expecting you to school this skinny, lil computer geek of an asian dude

[sxyNYCcpl]

You've missed the point I was making. Which really has little to do what a partner asks and has to do with the fact that alot of men justify porn use by saying it's "fantasy", "it's not real", " I don't want that"..when clearly they do when they ask a partner to engage in any number or sex acts they saw in porn.

 

I really haven't seen that argument made very often, despite my participation in multiple threads on the subject. Regardless, my question/point still stands. You are accusing those who DO use this argument of being disingenuous because the truth is they really *do* want to incorporate things they've seen in porn into their reality. My question, then, is what things is it that, generally, they really do want to incorporate into their own reality despite their denials, and why is that bad.

 

But often, men are more then happy to make the "fantasy" the reality. Thus wiping out any claims that it's just fantasy, it's not real and that they don't really want it.

 

Again, which part? You generalize the word "porn" to the point of meaninglessness. Is Playboy porn? Are naughty pictures of naked "regular" women taken by their SOs and put online (WITH their permission) porn? Does it require actual sex? Is sexually explicit imagery that consists of nothing but women, photographed or filmed by women, directed by women, and financially benefiting only women count? You speak of "porn" as though everything is Max Hardcore.

 

He's a scumbag, and his "work" is pathetic and unworthy of consumption, but mainstream porn is not Max Hardcore.

 

I'm looking for a man to be a man and not want to hide behind his computer to live out his life. That doesn't exist?

 

Sure it does. But that doesn't describe the average porn user, not even close.

 

When men freely think it's okay to call any woman, in a porn movie or not, derogatory names, it's affected men's perception of women.

 

As I've said, I don't really watch that much porn, and when I do it tends to be still pictures (I prefer so-called "amateur" porn, people taking pictures of their real lives and sharing them) and still pictures don't generally include audio, but even when I do watch video it rarely (if ever) includes such degradation. So what is it you're watching? Either you or me has a bad definition of what "mainstream" means.

 

Porn reflects what men desire. It's a window into those dark parts and frankly, it's clear that alot of men don't really value women.

 

Not from the (admitedlly limited) porn that I watch. You really, really need to define exactly what you mean by "porn".

 

Firstly, porn has nothing to do with celebrating a woman's individual sexality and everything to do with showing women acting more like men and responding more like men to sex. It's about men wanting women to act more like them when it comes to sex but with boobs and ass. That's not recongnizing women are sexual creatures in their own right. THat's wanting the other gender to cater to your own personal desires.

 

That's a whole different conversation, as it is my belief that women ARE more like men when it comes to sex than our collective experience would tend to indicate, but that we as a society TEACH them to suppress that because "good girls don't". I'm happy to go down that road if you like, but as I said it's an entirely different train of thought.

[IrishCarBomb]

I'm surprised this thread is even still going... Round 'n' round we go!!

[Sam Spade]

 

That's a whole different conversation, as it is my belief that women ARE more like men when it comes to sex than our collective experience would tend to indicate.

 

 

Finally some words of sanity here. It cracks me up to see women pictured as these pure innocent creatures preyed upon by ruthless men :rolleyes:.

Women like to F.U.C.K. just as much as guys do, and as soon as they are in a serious, comfortable relationship they do. And this includes curiosity and consumption of variety of forms of sexual stimulation, including porn.

 

Enough with the self- and other-inflicted guilt and the control tendencies .

[Trialbyfire]

I'm surprised this thread is even still going... Round 'n' round we go!!

I'm hearing the piano theme song for The Sting. Play on by rote.

[You'reasian]

Finally some words of sanity here. It cracks me up to see women pictured as these pure innocent creatures preyed upon by ruthless men :rolleyes:.

 

Women like to F.U.C.K. just as much as guys do, and as soon as they are in a serious, comfortable relationship they do. And this includes curiosity and consumption of variety of forms of sexual stimulation, including porn.

 

 

.......Exactly.

[IrishCarBomb]

I'm hearing the piano theme song for The Sting. Play on by rote.

 

Good times!

 

[Trialbyfire]

Good times!

 

Crazy!

 

At the end, I was expecting the entire piano to collapse in itself, with a little trail of smoke coming out the top!

 

Reminds me of this thread, where everyone just gets more and more worked up.

[soserious1]

I earn my own paycheck, cook better than most women , clean up after myself (except the weekend maybe) and have some decent hobbies.

 

makes me feel strange yet greatly appreciative when a woman doesn't mind cooking or cleaning, yet women in other parts of the world are ok taking the lead in these areas.

 

Somehow the thought of "taking the lead" in scrubbing the toilet a man uses i while he sits at his computer filling his eyes with porn doesn't appeal to me, sitting at home rocking a cranky baby while he's down at the strip club with his boys doesn't do much for me either. Having to then heap praise on said man because he's making such a HUGE sacrifice because he didn't actually physically cheat on me just strikes me as so much BS.

 

I'd much rather live alone, be responsible for my own fiscal needs and for my own daily living needs, getting together with men just for no- strings companionship and sex, no cooking, no cleaning and no promises of monogamy required from either of us. This way of life would at least be an honest one and would be respectful of men's built in need to seek a wide variety of sexual stimuli while also conserving women's energy to focus on meeting their own needs.

[Scottdmw]

Somehow the thought of "taking the lead" in scrubbing the toilet a man uses i while he sits at his computer filling his eyes with porn doesn't appeal to me, sitting at home rocking a cranky baby while he's down at the strip club with his boys doesn't do much for me either. Having to then heap praise on said man because he's making such a HUGE sacrifice because he didn't actually physically cheat on me just strikes me as so much BS.

 

I'd much rather live alone, be responsible for my own fiscal needs and for my own daily living needs, getting together with men just for no- strings companionship and sex, no cooking, no cleaning and no promises of monogamy required from either of us. This way of life would at least be an honest one and would be respectful of men's built in need to seek a wide variety of sexual stimuli while also conserving women's energy to focus on meeting their own needs.

 

 

It's understandable you would feel that way, confronted by men who want to do the porn/strip clubs/pursue other women thing. Why would you want to do as you suggest and sacrifice for a man who is only out to please himself?

 

I believe men and women in a love relationship should sacrifice for each other.

 

I also believe that, although the picture you paint about no-strings relationships is rosy, it doesn't correspond with human nature. People having sex tend to get very attached to each other. Not always and not always right away, but most people will eventually. Look up the biochemistry of sex sometime and read about bonding that takes place. If you still don't believe, check out the "breaking up" section of Loveshack sometime and read about the hundreds of heartbroken people trying for years to recover from the end of a sexual relationship. Tell me they would still have felt that way if they hadn't had sex.

 

Then there is the question of children. For people that decide to have children, they need to make a committment to be together so the child is raised in a stable environment by his/her biological parents if possible. Not to say other living arrangements can never work, but on average a child's biological parents will care and sacrifice more, because we are built to care for our genetic offspring.

 

Given all this, I stay away from porn because it does make many women feel very jealous and insecure. I don't want to get into it now and then be stuck with a porn habit if/when I get married. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for my future spouse. I don't think I have a particularly addictive personality, but I know it's been quite difficult for me to stay away from porn. I challenge the men on this site who claim they could stop to do so for a while and prove to themselves they really can, if it's not such a big deal.

 

Now, before anyone gets too defensive about all this, I will emphasize this is how I choose to live, and the above challenge aside am not interested in trying to force my beliefs on others.

 

Scott

[You'reasian]

Somehow the thought of "taking the lead" in scrubbing the toilet a man uses i while he sits at his computer filling his eyes with porn doesn't appeal to me, sitting at home rocking a cranky baby while he's down at the strip club with his boys doesn't do much for me either. Having to then heap praise on said man because he's making such a HUGE sacrifice because he didn't actually physically cheat on me just strikes me as so much BS..

 

Ultimately, you chose the man you want to be with, ss.

 

You've polarized house duty as an all or nothing - with women doing all of the work. Find a guy that doesn't care about sharing some of the load. He starts the laundry and takes care of the cars, while you take care of the floors and windows - or vice versa.

 

Unfortunately, the above willingness of any man to share these responsibilities isn't revealed over one or two dates... and if he doesn't give you the instant zing, why bother - right?

[soserious1]

Ultimately, you chose the man you want to be with, ss.

 

You've polarized house duty as an all or nothing - with women doing all of the work. Find a guy that doesn't care about sharing some of the load. He starts the laundry and takes care of the cars, while you take care of the floors and windows - or vice versa.

 

Unfortunately, the above willingness of any man to share these responsibilities isn't revealed over one or two dates... and if he doesn't give you the instant zing, why bother - right?

 

When you are young the various activities of the opposite sex are an endless sort of wonderment, you hang on everything they say or do, totally spell bound.

 

Then you get older and realize that,lol, you just don't give a fsck as long as whatever they do doesn't cost you or negatively impact on your life.

 

I'm not interested in another so called monogamous relationship, I think it's not natural and just leads to a ton of BS and lies.