Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[IceWind]

Ooops sorry I just realized his name is IceWind not IcyWind I kept calling him "Icy" in my last post, my apologies about that.

 

Yeah, I bet you are.

[fishtaco]

Ohh okay, so if a man is viewing porn while dating you, he is just practicing on the possibility of the relationship ending and seeking out new vagina. Well, then please continue using those things and the real woman in your life that was cares for you. That's how real men should treat women after all I guess.

 

How is watching porn a practice of anything?

 

heartbrokenguy: My girlfriend broke up with me, how do I move on and meet new women?

LS_expert: Stay at home and watch a lot of porn.

 

That reminds me of something. With one of my ex's, we were having relationship problems. We were both making compromises to meet each other half way (nothing to do with porn, there are other much more important issues to consider when in a relationship). So I told her that I appreciate all the effort she's been putting into making the compromise work. She came back and got mad at me and said that I would only love her if she does what I want her to do, i.e. the compromise.

 

That totally blind-sided me. I thought I was giving her words of appreciation, because really I was glad we were working on the compromise. But somehow she took it as some negative thing.

 

This is how it is too. Porn is just porn. It's not important. It's just some entertainment. Somehow, another person's perspective just completely takes me by surprise and went in a direction my apparently neanderthal brain cannot comprehend.

 

Anyway, Jersey Shortie, I respect you as a person, but I would never date someone like you. Not because you're not worthy, but because we will simply not be compatible. I'll go look for the girl that I can watch porn with, and you can mace me if I ever try to approach you.

[IceWind]

Good points fish, in the end, these digital flamewars do nothing but just upset people on both ends. Unfortuantly, its just too easy to be an "internet tough guy" and not take peoples crap. *guilty as charged* Miss and Shortie are probably decent face to face people, but we have nothing in common and its easy to bash heads on the web, especially when I would never do it to someones face.

 

Yes in short, this is my way of saying 'I'm sorry" and "Its my fault, not yours"

[Jersey Shortie]

No man whose got a backbone and cajones (i.e. one you really respect) is going to receive and respect ultra-feminist beliefs, especially about porn and strippers.

 

Let each man decide for himself if he wants to look at porn and visit strip clubs. Again, I don't frequent them much - although I certainly would for a special occasion - but if they want to do so on a regular basis, I support them because it lets them kick back, relax and enjoy themselves.

 

 

I hate to break it to you but my beliefs have nothing to do with feminism. Not one word I said even points to feminism. This isn't about not wanting men to be men. This is actually wanting men to be more of a man then I think the current general definition of man seems to allow. What do you think makes a man more of a man? Downloading internet porn or living in the real world and actually engaging with a woman? How many men choose the internet porn? I suspect more then you and other men care to admit to. For exactly the reasons you state. Because it's easier. Because he can hide behind it.

 

I don't think men are embarressed by their porn use because it includes masturbation and the evils of. I think men are embarressed by their porn use, or try damned hard to make it seem like the "good" thing to do, because they understand how passive and emotionless, disconnected, that it makes them. Especially towards women. I think most men in their hearts know that they are using women for their own means. They know that when they put that porn movie in, they not only can get a physical release but no woman will ask something of him, ask him to be something he is afraid he can't be. No one will ever really ask him to be a man while he can feel like one. If you think porn is just about the orgasm, then I think all you have to do is watch a porn movie and the aspects that go into it to HUGELY dissprove that notion. Porn is riddled with male psychologic issues

 

They don't have to face a woman and actually try to be a real man. That they can hide behind their computers and tvs and "feel" like one without really ever having to put the effort in to be one. Is that how men want to be defined? By their porn use? "I'm a guy, of course I look at porn!" Do you think that makes men look good?? That a man is defined by him wanting to sit passively infront of his tv with fantasies of women that don't give rat's ass about him and the one woman that does get's to watch him do it?

 

You said in other posts that porn and strip clubs don't define men yet cleary you believe they do. You defend them on the basis of being man which clearly illustrates that you think they do define a man.

 

I think men do themselves a huge disservice actually. I actually quite enjoy when a guy takes the lead. But taking the lead doesn't mean "his ability to view porn and visit strip clubs". That's not a man with a backbone or cajones. You're right that I would want a man with a backbone. Although I suspect the way we both define that is vastly different. I think alot of women would let their guy lead more if they really felt safe in the idea that he could. What do you think it says to most women that a man rather take the easy, passive way out by sitting behind his computer looking at porn or visiting strip clubs instead of spending that time really engaging with a woman or taking up a hobby? Or simply, not using women for his benefit? It's alot harder to treat a woman with respect then not treat her with it.

 

By the way, my father growing up was an alcholic and workaholic. He was still able to function a normal life on the outside. He went to work and was succesful and worked hard. Years later, he's had some health issues do to the drinking. I suspect for many men, porn has the same affect. I think more men are addicted to it then they can admit to themselves. And that it's been far more damanging then they've realized. At the end of the day what will you say? That you wished you viewed more porn? Or that you actually took the time to learn what real women wanted?

[Woggle]

Men never asked to be liberated by feminists in the first place. The ironic thing is that these pro-feminist men that the women on here claim to love are the ones who get dumped on by women over and over again. My friend who just had his wife cheat on him and leave him used to call me a male chauvinist pig all the time who made other men look bad and look what happend to him. To a feminist an enlightened man is just a tool to be used against other men and discarded when she is done with him. Sooner or later you will do something to anger her and you will end up in the doghouse with the rest of the male gender. I'm sick and tired of women trying to tell men how to be men anyway. They need to worry about their own lives and stop trying to tell men how to live ours.

[Jersey Shortie]

How is watching porn a practice of anything?

 

That was what another guy said and I had qouted it and responded. Next time it might be more helpful to pick up the whole conversation to keep it in context.

 

 

We were both making compromises to meet each other half way (nothing to do with porn, there are other much more important issues to consider when in a relationship).

 

Apparently for the lot of women all over the internet, this board alone you can clearly see, porn is an important and valid issue. Seriously, otherwise you wouldn't even be posting in this topic. So please don't belittle the significance of it when clearly many women are bothered by it. And clearly many men hurt their partners for it.

 

 

So I told her that I appreciate all the effort she's been putting into making the compromise work. She came back and got mad at me and said that I would only love her if she does what I want her to do, i.e. the compromise.

 

That totally blind-sided me. I thought I was giving her words of appreciation, because really I was glad we were working on the compromise. But somehow she took it as some negative thing.

 

This is how it is too. Porn is just porn. It's not important. It's just some entertainment. Somehow, another person's perspective just completely takes me by surprise and went in a direction my apparently neanderthal brain cannot comprehend.

 

Really, the only think I hear you saying is *you* don't consider porn a big deal so it shouldn't be. End of story. How does that really make any sense?

 

In a relationship, it takes two people. She was clearly upset about something and it didn't mean that it wasn't unimportant. Just because you think it is, doesn't mean it is. That's your major flaw in your argument. Obviously she was resentful of you for whatever the compromise was. Whether she should have been or not, I don't know. But I really don't see how *you* thinking something isn't important must mean that it shouldn't be important for her.

 

Anyway, Jersey Shortie, I respect you as a person, but I would never date someone like you. Not because you're not worthy, but because we will simply not be compatible. I'll go look for the girl that I can watch porn with, and you can mace me if I ever try to approach you.

 

I don't doubt that most men will look for a woman that will watch porn with him. That's what men want so they can have the best of both worlds and not really work at really valuing a woman, respecting her or really committing. At the end of the day it's a man's world. I don't think men really care about giving a woman what she needs.

 

You say it's not a big deal but apparently it's a big enough deal for you to not be able to give it up. You're words don't match up with your action. Porn is important to you. Enough so that it would determine who you would or wouldn't date. It makes no logical sense to say porn isn't a big deal or shouldn't be but that you can't give it up or that it's that big of a sway that it would hold you back from dating someone. Porn is a big deal to you. The only one you are kidding about that is yourself.

 

It is to many men today unfortunetly.

[fishtaco]

That was what another guy said and I had qouted it and responded. Next time it might be more helpful to pick up the whole conversation to keep it in context.

 

Yeah that other guy was me. And that wasn't what I said.

 

Anyway, you're in full on internet flamewar mode. I've read may of your posts, you've always been very... nevermind. Anyway, I'm not interested in reading any more of your posts, so I'm going to put you on the ignore list. Nothing personal. I'm sure you don't think much of me either, so this will be a good thing. Good day.

[sally4sara]

Men never asked to be liberated by feminists in the first place.

 

So when a man whats to be a nurse, elementary school teacher, baby sitter, hair stylist, receptionist, dancer, massage therapist, yoga instructor, or similar female gender associated occupation and he is stymied by societal norms forced in his way, you don't find merit in the feminist movement's ability to aid him? Its okay to let him get treated like a gay pedo for not being "manly" in his choice?

 

Would it make you feel better if we all stopped calling it the feminist movement and called it the ERAers. That's all it really is.

[Jersey Shortie]

I guess I just keep hoping that porn really isn't important to men but I keep getting proved wrong with the amount of men that stand up for it. It's discouraging to say the least. Men can't be happy with what their woman alone provides him. He always needs *more*. He always needs to seek out a new girl to look at on some level. What happens when these guys hit 40? 50? Are they STILL going be looking at 20 year olds? Doesn't give a girl much to look forward to. No offense and I don't say this to be mean in away but it is still a Guy's World and often it doesn't feel like there is much place in it for your average girl. When the men in your own life are eager to defend an image on screen then try to get where your coming from.

[Woggle]

So when a man whats to be a nurse, elementary school teacher, baby sitter, hair stylist, receptionist, dancer, massage therapist, yoga instructor, or similar female gender associated occupation and he is stymied by societal norms forced in his way, you don't find merit in the feminist movement's ability to aid him? Its okay to let him get treated like a gay pedo for not being "manly" in his choice?

 

Would it make you feel better if we all stopped calling it the feminist movement and called it the ERAers. That's all it really is.

 

Modern feminism has nothing to do with this. The original women's lib movement was a good thing but it quickly devolved into a hate movement and you have what we have today. No self respecting man would ever support something that is against him.

[Woggle]

I guess I just keep hoping that porn really isn't important to men but I keep getting proved wrong with the amount of men that stand up for it. It's discouraging to say the least. Men can't be happy with what their woman alone provides him. He always needs *more*. He always needs to seek out a new girl to look at on some level. What happens when these guys hit 40? 50? Are they STILL going be looking at 20 year olds? Doesn't give a girl much to look forward to. No offense and I don't say this to be mean in away but it is still a Guy's World and often it doesn't feel like there is much place in it for your average girl. When the men in your own life are eager to defend an image on screen then try to get where your coming from.

 

It's more about freedom than actual porn. For the past 30 years feminists have tried to remake manhood and try to tell men how we should be and what women want from us only to have the rules changed on us once we thought we got it. This is about being sick of being told how to be men and deciding we will do what we want and a woman can take it or leave it. If a woman is against porn that is her right and I am not the man for her but she should never expect me to change just to please her.

[You'reasian]

I hate to break it to you but my beliefs have nothing to do with feminism. Not one word I said even points to feminism. This isn't about not wanting men to be men. This is actually wanting men to be more of a man then I think the current general definition of man seems to allow. What do you think makes a man more of a man? Downloading internet porn or living in the real world and actually engaging with a woman? How many men choose the internet porn? I suspect more then you and other men care to admit to. For exactly the reasons you state. Because it's easier. Because he can hide behind it.?

 

Who says men substitute masturbating to internet porn for going out and meeting a real woman?

 

I don't think men are embarressed by their porn use because it includes masturbation and the evils of. I think men are embarressed by their porn use, or try damned hard to make it seem like the "good" thing to do, because they understand how passive and emotionless, disconnected, that it makes them. Especially towards women. I think most men in their hearts know that they are using women for their own means. They know that when they put that porn movie in, they not only can get a physical release but no woman will ask something of him, ask him to be something he is afraid he can't be. No one will ever really ask him to be a man while he can feel like one. If you think porn is just about the orgasm, then I think all you have to do is watch a porn movie and the aspects that go into it to HUGELY dissprove that notion. Porn is riddled with male psychologic issues

 

They don't have to face a woman and actually try to be a real man. That they can hide behind their computers and tvs and "feel" like one without really ever having to put the effort in to be one. Is that how men want to be defined? By their porn use? "I'm a guy, of course I look at porn!" Do you think that makes men look good?? That a man is defined by him wanting to sit passively infront of his tv with fantasies of women that don't give rat's ass about him and the one woman that does get's to watch him do it? ?

 

Hate to break it to ya, but most guys on here do meet women face to face and have no qualms about it.

 

 

You said in other posts that porn and strip clubs don't define men yet cleary you believe they do. You defend them on the basis of being man which clearly illustrates that you think they do define a man.

 

Wrong again. That's your projection of what you think I said. And yes, you have feminist tendencies.

 

I think men do themselves a huge disservice actually. I actually quite enjoy when a guy takes the lead. But taking the lead doesn't mean "his ability to view porn and visit strip clubs". That's not a man with a backbone or cajones. You're right that I would want a man with a backbone. Although I suspect the way we both define that is vastly different. I think alot of women would let their guy lead more if they really felt safe in the idea that he could. What do you think it says to most women that a man rather take the easy, passive way out by sitting behind his computer looking at porn or visiting strip clubs instead of spending that time really engaging with a woman or taking up a hobby? Or simply, not using women for his benefit? It's alot harder to treat a woman with respect then not treat her with it.

 

You're so caught up on men not treating women with respect and guys just watching porn instead of going out and meeting women. Is that what your guy does?

 

Lots of assumptions.

 

What are my hobbies? How do you know I'm not part of a rowing team, chess club or go bowling?

 

I think more men are addicted to it then they can admit to themselves. And that it's been far more damanging then they've realized. At the end of the day what will you say? That you wished you viewed more porn? Or that you actually took the time to learn what real women wanted?

 

A real woman is going to meet me face to face and tell me what she wants. While she talks, I'll listen. If what she says jives with how she lives and what her actions show, then she's def. got my attention.

[mr.dream merchant]

Yeah that other guy was me. And that wasn't what I said.

 

Anyway, you're in full on internet flamewar mode. I've read may of your posts, you've always been very... nevermind. Anyway, I'm not interested in reading any more of your posts, so I'm going to put you on the ignore list. Nothing personal. I'm sure you don't think much of me either, so this will be a good thing. Good day.

 

How can I put her on the ignore list to? I don't get anything but a sigh of false hope for humanity and gender compromise when I read her posts. :S Dunno where to find the option. But on the flip side, daaaaaamn, I didn't think this thread would still be alive and kickin. Porn and strip clubs aren't a substitute for anything. And once again, if your man let things at a strip club get physical that's on him. Every man who has a SO and steps foot inside a strip club shouldn't be labeled negatively because there's a few bad apples in the bunch. I'm fully capable of stepping into a strip club and leaving untouched, no sitting in a dark corner with some hot stripper rubbing her tits in my face.

[Els]

JS, why do you keep skimming over my posts?

 

I'm a living example that porn (and everything related) is NOT for the sole pleasure of men, and NOT bad for all women. It is NOT just men who look, and it is NOT just women who are the 'victims'.

 

You don't want your man to look at porn and that's your prerogative, but extrapolating that to porn just being all around BAD, putting down women, making men less of a man to watch it, etc, is really just wrong.

 

I think that those who call you insecure, having issues, etc, for disliking porn are wrong. But why can you not accept the fact that there is no black and white in this, that the ones watching porn are not always the ones in the wrong, that other people are different?

 

Btw, Missconduct, I agree with most of your post. However, as Jersey feels so very strongly about it, I disagree that she should just go with a man who wants to watch porn -- she would end up trying to change him, he would resist, and it would all go downhill from there. There's no harm in waiting for the man who doesn't watch -- and there are quite a few. My ex, for instance. And a few of my religious friends.

[Els]

How can I put her on the ignore list to? I don't get anything but a sigh of false hope for humanity and gender compromise when I read her posts. :S Dunno where to find the option. But on the flip side, daaaaaamn, I didn't think this thread would still be alive and kickin. Porn and strip clubs aren't a substitute for anything. And once again, if your man let things at a strip club get physical that's on him. Every man who has a SO and steps foot inside a strip club shouldn't be labeled negatively because there's a few bad apples in the bunch. I'm fully capable of stepping into a strip club and leaving untouched, no sitting in a dark corner with some hot stripper rubbing her tits in my face.

 

I see so much contradiction in your post history, it makes me go . Weren't you the one who felt insecure when your gf took up a job at a place that has SOME MALES WORKING THERE?!

[You'reasian]

porn (and everything related) is NOT for the sole pleasure of men, and NOT bad for all women. It is NOT just men who look, and it is NOT just women who are the 'victims'.

 

 

Been saying the same thing.

 

In her world, only men look at porn and consume adult products

[Trialbyfire]

This thread continues to be fraught full of extremism. I have to laugh at the usage of the term feminism, like it's the ultimate evil in the world.

 

Feminism has nothing to do with individual insecurities. It has to do with gender equality, which doesn't mean that one gender controls the other, like thought and emotion police.

 

If you're feeling insecure in a relationship due to actions of your partner, then go find someone who's going to be the type of partner you want.

 

If your insecurities are self-created, time to examine and fix, before inflicting yourself on someone else.

[Els]

This thread continues to be fraught full of extremism. I have to laugh at the usage of the term feminism, like it's the ultimate evil in the world.

 

Feminism has nothing to do with individual insecurities. It has to do with gender equality, which doesn't mean that one gender controls the other, like thought and emotion police.

 

If you're feeling insecure in a relationship due to actions of your partner, then go find someone who's going to be the type of partner you want.

 

If your insecurities are self-created, time to examine and fix, before inflicting yourself on someone else.

 

Agreed. Feminism is, in the purest sense, women having the freedom to choose to do/be whatever they want to do/be without needing to bow to stereotypes or the decisions of men. It is not a derogatory term, and it has nothing to do with a woman's stand on porn, for chrissakes.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Not, but you may ask your girlfriend to wear those thigh highs that you just saw in the porno or try a new position.

 

And that's bad how?

 

Here's what I don't get. Less than 24 hours ago, my wife and I went to a strip joint. We went with a male friend of ours who is having marital problems completely unrelated to porn, strippers, or anything else germane to this thread.

 

All of us had a good time. We had a few drinks, we watched some dancers, we flirted with the barmaids, and we exchanged email addresses.

 

Towards the end of the night, my male friend and I bought a lap dance for my wife from one of the girls. During the dance, one of the other dancers went to see what was happening and she came back to report that "Your wife isn't getting a lap-dance, she's GIVING one." Nice. Wish I could have been there.

 

Did her actions indicate she doesn't love me? Hmm, don't think so as she went home with me, we had some really amazing sex, and she is currently sleeping in our bed waiting for me. Does the fact that she found another human sexually attractive mean that she is not attracted to me? Well, based on her subsequent actions, I'm gonna go with a great big hell no to that.

 

So what is the bottom line?

 

All of us, male, female, or otherwise, are, and will continue to be, attracted to, turned on by, and generally interested in the sexuality of other humans. A relationship that is true, one that is pure, one that is real, recognizes that, accepts that, and thrives in it's presence. I do not understand your mentality that you will be the only sexual turnon in your SO's life, despite the real world.

[Jersey Shortie]

Miss Conduct:

 

So my point is learn to accept the reasons why men need this kind of escape, and learn to understand how it is something that is separate from what he feels for you. Learn to not see it as such a threatening thing. I think that will ultimately help you much more in the long run rather than trying to look for the other way around, which is for men to come on board with your way of thinking and to only have eyes for you. Men don't only have eyes for their women, men all look, as do we. You just need to get used to that. Otherwise you will never ever be happy in a relationship. It is a natural tendency and you simply can't do anything to change that so why try?

 

 

Well, at the end of the day, I could never live my life as you suggested. To me that seems like a dull, passionless existence that seems to be about pandering to what a man wants and ignoring your own desires and needs as a woman. Something I think many women end up doing for years and then end up bitter and resentful down the line and then men wonder why she left him after 20+ years of marriage.

 

If a man doesn't want to make any concessions in a relationship and behave like he is single, then he doesn't need to get into a relationship. It's that simple. He wants variety, he wants interchangibility. That's fine. But why get into a relationship and then turn around and use these things as justification for other behaviors that go against the committed relationship? Isn't that kind of silly?

 

That's what gets me. The selfishness. The not wanting to adapt themselves. I am sorry but I don't accept that *I* have to *learn* to accept certain things that I don't think are right in a relationship. If women just accpeted the status qou as men wanted it, we would still be stuck in the 1950s. And while not perfect, at least it ain't the 1950s anymore.

 

The main point of contension I have with this is that you seem to expect the woman to make the concessions and "learn" to adapt to his needs over what a woman's needs can be. What do you ask of men? What do you ask of them to learn to accept and take one on the chin for the team? What do men ask of themselves?

 

Men don't need porn. They don't need to escape to an alternate reality where all the men are studs that have sex with implanted cheerleaders. Only men insecure in their own sexuality need to do that. We always talk about women's insecurities about porn but I men are even more insecure then women.

 

The fact is, I am not asking men to be less of a man. I am asking them to be more of a man. I am asking them to step away from their computers and live an engaged life. Not a disconnected one.

 

Men are visual and men might still look at other women but I would hope he would want to use self control more times then not since *he* willingly made the choice to be in a monogomous relationship with me. I don't expect perfection but I certinaly don't accept the theory that "oh they are men, so by default it's okay if they do x,y and z".

 

 

 

 

JS, why do you keep skimming over my posts?

 

I'm a living example that porn (and everything related) is NOT for the sole pleasure of men, and NOT bad for all women. It is NOT just men who look, and it is NOT just women who are the 'victims'

.

 

I don't skim your posts. At the end of the day, I am trying to have romantic relationships with men, not women. As I told you before, I am fully aware there are women that do look at porn. I don't speak for them. but I don't find them to be the majority either. I think most women end up being more the 'victim" in these cases due to our inherient natures when it comes to porn. Porn being more male oriented. There are more porn posts around here about women struggling with the issue then not.

 

You don't want your man to look at porn and that's your prerogative, but extrapolating that to porn just being all around BAD, putting down women, making men less of a man to watch it, etc, is really just wrong.

 

Well, I do believe porn is all around bad and puts women down. I see no socialogical positive from pornography. The image porn projects of women isn't a positive one. And with the amount that is around today through the internet, and the amount of kids that see it sooner then before, it's quite scary. And I do personally believe watching porn makes you less closer to the type of man I think men can be. Why is that so wrong? I am not saying men are less for watching it as human beings or don't deserve respect of kindness. I think men have the possiblity of being truly great. I infact think porn holds them back themselves. Perhpas I am the only real hopeful and positive opinion of men here. I do fully believe that porn makes men feel like men without actually requiring anything of them to really be men.

 

 

I think that those who call you insecure, having issues, etc, for disliking porn are wrong. But why can you not accept the fact that there is no black and white in this, that the ones watching porn are not always the ones in the wrong, that other people are different?

 

Well, I don't think the issue is black and white actually. I get why men like sex. I get why men like looking at women. That doesn't mean I think that's a good excuse for them to be doing so. I love when men flirt with me and buy me drinks. Doesn't mean I think I should let that behavior come about if I have a boyfriend.

 

The medium of what porn is today is so twisted and bleeped up that it goes beyond. People will claim otherwise but if you really evaulate a porn movie on more then what is going on infront of your face, there are all kinds of other visual, pyscological and physical clues that tell a whole other story about a harsh reality most people don't care to look to deeply at.

 

I think what really gets me is the amount of men that defend the porn at all costs yet say it's not important. Hello Contradiction. It's clearly way more improtant to men then they can even admit to themselves. That in itself is sad.

[Scottdmw]

I agree with Jersie in so much as I think that when men use porn it somewhat degrades their ability to relate to real women. I say somewhat--obviously men who use porn still do manage to relate to real women too in most cases. But I do think there is an element of learned expectation after watching porn that the real woman you go on to interact with is going to fulfil your needs without much effort on your part.

 

As a man I do try my best to avoid porn because I feel like it's not really healthy for me. A good analogy is eating a steady diet of sugar and ice cream (porn) rather than healthy and well-balanced food (real relationship). Sure, a little refined sugar isn't going to kill you, but it's never good for you, and the more you have the more it harms you. Worse, for me at least porn is way more addicting than sugar or ice cream, so maybe it's really a better analogy with smoking or something.

 

That said, I do also think women are feeding this problem too. Here's a post from another thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t183959/

 

This is from a woman applying to be a phone sex girl. She has an interesting snippet on "industry practice" regarding "self promotion":

 

This is industry slang for making profiles on social networking sites and friending guys, messaging them, getting them interested, and then dropping the "Oh, it's a pay call". It's also going into online chats and being generally charming and suggestive, cybering with guys and then going, "Oh I want to hear your voice!"

 

 

So, there are guys who are on social networking sites looking for friends, and "self-promoting" phone sex girls go looking for them, pretending to be their friend, and basically luring them into phone sex. The same thing happens with visual porn on MySpace for example--I used to get one fake "friend" request per day from these type of women promoting their private porn sites.

 

These are women who are using men's weakness for porn to make money, and actually going looking for men who might otherwise have stayed away. It sure seems like they are contributing to the problem.

 

My point is that it's not so simple that porn is men's problem. I would say that at the end of the day men are the ones who must be responsible for avoiding it, but if women want to help they could try to help discourage each other from feeding the problem.

 

 

Scott

[Jersey Shortie]

I agree with Jersie in so much as I think that when men use porn it somewhat degrades their ability to relate to real women. I say somewhat--obviously men who use porn still do manage to relate to real women too in most cases. But I do think there is an element of learned expectation after watching porn that the real woman you go on to interact with is going to fulfil your needs without much effort on your part.

 

This I agree with. This is also a big reason why I dislike the whole "it's jsut fantasy" comments. It's not *just* fantasy. It's gone deeper then that at a billion dollar profit. Men like to encourage their women to do the things they see in porn sometimes. Men still respond to the "fantasy" as if it was *real*. It's not *just * fantasy.

 

 

As a man I do try my best to avoid porn because I feel like it's not really healthy for me. A good analogy is eating a steady diet of sugar and ice cream (porn) rather than healthy and well-balanced food (real relationship). Sure, a little refined sugar isn't going to kill you, but it's never good for you, and the more you have the more it harms you. Worse, for me at least porn is way more addicting than sugar or ice cream, so maybe it's really a better analogy with smoking or something.

 

I've said similar things. I love cheesecake and bacon,egg and cheese sandwiches. But if I ate it nearly as much as the average guy views porn. I'd be a big. I like those things, they taste good and give me short term satisfaction but they are ultimately, not good for me. I view porn the same way. How people can think *most * people have their porn use under control when most of america is either fat, in dept or absues some sort of substance, is beyond me. Most people over indulge in porn. Just as most people over indulge in food. But somehow it's unacceptable to be fat but it's okay to be fat on porn so to speak.

 

 

My point is that it's not so simple that porn is men's problem. I would say that at the end of the day men are the ones who must be responsible for avoiding it, but if women want to help they could try to help discourage each other from feeding the problem.

 

I agree with this Scott but how many men have women that solicite sex, phone or otherwise on the internet compared to men that seek it out? Women are running around doing porn to the extent men are viewing it. I am not saying we have no responsiblity but in most cases the man is seeking out the porn and his wife/gf probably isn't doing porn.

[AAlike]

I guess I just keep hoping that porn really isn't important to men but I keep getting proved wrong with the amount of men that stand up for it. It's discouraging to say the least.

 

 

geez, you go away for a day or two...haha...

 

again, I disagree - I think that the stance that most men here are taking are that only YOU are placing the importance on it. No one here is on this huge pro-porn crusade saying how important it is in their life - rather they are reacting to the notion that them doing something that is essentially regarded as normal is actually some expression of sexism and subjugation. In all honesty I really wouldn't care if you told me that I could never watch another porno in my life (and if my GF was bothered by it, I would certainly chuck it at her request without thinking twice - although I can't imagine dating someone that was threatened by it). However, I certainly take issue with the implication that BECAUSE of my one-a-month porn viewing, which, ideally I simply use in order to make masturbation slightly more efficient and could certainly do without, that I am sending an implicit message that my girlfriend is somehow inadequate. that, quite frankly, is crap.

 

Men can't be happy with what their woman alone provides him. He always needs *more*. He always needs to seek out a new girl to look at on some level.

 

And this is the leap in logic that we take umbrage with. the porn itself is not the issue...let me see if I can better explain. this is not a "feminist" issue at all as others have suggested.

 

In an earlier post I said something to the effect of "you have an issue with male sexuality" - let me now officially retract that statement, since I'm not trying to start some corny "battle of the sexes," and change it to "I think that you are misinterpreting innate male sexuality." I made a silly joke about "I love my girlfriend to death but still will appreciate a nice rack" or something, and you said that it was indicative of a "wink wink, nudge nudge, boys will be boys" mentality. I see why you say this but that is not why I brought up the point - the point is that it is factual. Let's put it this way - I think Paris Hilton is essentially the most detestable creature on the planet - however, if she got naked in front of me, I'd probably get aroused, whether I wanted to or not, even if it violated essentially everything that I stood for.

 

The reason that I use that example is that for men there is a clear delineation between instinctual visual stimulization versus intimacy that women do not have, or even if some do it is not as pronounced and primal (hence the difference in male vs. female strip clubs where the males are not just naked, they're always "sexy cop" or "sexy pool boy" or whatever - it's about a whole package - not just the package (ZING!)).

 

So for men, we've been getting aroused from all sorts of visual stimuli since we turned 12 - it's completely mundane for us at this juncture. The statement that I hear so often on here - "men like variety" - is very misleading. The more accurate statement would be "men like a variety of visual stimuli." so all of this hyperanalysis of porn that you're doing, it's lost on us - it doesn't play nearly the role for us that you think that it does. you say things like we "NEED" porn, we "CAN'T" be happy without it - those are terms that you apply to an addict, not a normal guy - so of course we are going to take a WTF type stance.

 

you can say "well I want a guy that will not get aroused by anyone but me" which seems to be your MO here - that's fine, but I hate to tell you that that guy is either lying to you or is suppressing his natural urges so much that he's probably going to feel trapped. you take away his porn, he'll probably start having impure thoughts about the weathergirl, or Oprah, or the cashier at the grocery store, whatever. I'm sorry that this is such a tough thing for you to get over, and I hope you do, I really do, because you're fighting what is essentially a completely futile battle, shortie.

 

When the men in your own life are eager to defend an image on screen then try to get where your coming from.

 

i'll say it again, I don't think that those men are necessarily defending their porn so much as their own innate sexual nature and their integrity.

[AAlike]

 

As a man I do try my best to avoid porn because I feel like it's not really healthy for me. A good analogy is eating a steady diet of sugar and ice cream (porn) rather than healthy and well-balanced food (real relationship). Sure, a little refined sugar isn't going to kill you, but it's never good for you, and the more you have the more it harms you. Worse, for me at least porn is way more addicting than sugar or ice cream, so maybe it's really a better analogy with smoking or something.

 

 

I do agree that for those that have an addictive personality that getting too into porn can make them unfit for a relationship - however, that can also happen with gambling, drinking, drugs, video games, even work - the problem in that instance is not the porn it's the addictive personality. if you know that porn is a potential addiction for you, then you are probably doing a good thing by staying away from it.

 

but keep in mind that porn is not "harmful" for most guys.

[Scottdmw]

I do agree that for those that have an addictive personality that getting too into porn can make them unfit for a relationship - however, that can also happen with gambling, drinking, drugs, video games, even work - the problem in that instance is not the porn it's the addictive personality. if you know that porn is a potential addiction for you, then you are probably doing a good thing by staying away from it.

 

but keep in mind that porn is not "harmful" for most guys.

 

You say it's not harmful but a lot of women on this site say it _is_ harmful. Who should we believe? Remember, every alcoholic will tell you he can stop drinking anytime he wants and it's no big deal.

 

Scott