How exactly does gay marriage negatively affect traditional marriage?

[calazhage]

Yes Amerikajin, what is Obamas problem? he is against same sex marriage.. And please tell me how I distorted that map..

 

 

Since we live in a world where roughly half the WORLD recognizes so form of same sex marriage, why isn't this happening in those places? .

 

 

OK, let's back track a bit.. In post 436 S4S said the above..And used the word "marriage" Supposedly half the world recognizes same sex marriage. Then a map is posted..

 

This is the map break down.

A. 4 nations recognize same sex MARRIAGE.

B. About 8 additional nations recognize either a gay union or partnership, but it IS NOT a marriage.

C. 4 nations have progressive legislation that may be violated.

 

Now do the math so far..Keep in mind 195 nations on Earth..

 

D. Many more nations simply do not criminalize homos for being gay.

E. About 20 nations put you in jail or fine you for being gay.

F. About 15 nations give you 10 years to life for being gay.

G. About 4 nations KILL you for being gay.

 

No matter how you cut it, using population, number of nations, etc, the amount of societies on Earth that recognize anything gay is a tiny fraction. Only 4, yes 4, allow gay marriage.

 

So that destroys your argument that half the world allows gay marriage, or some type of partnership..

 

Then of course you try to later say you never said the word marriage,said I could not read, and you said partnership.. Nice try. See above. Even if you said "partnership" that is still a tiny % of societies on Earth. NOWHERE NEAR HALF.

 

Debate the evidence instead of attacking me. How did you come up with half the world? Population? land mass? Countries? I know canada looks big on the map but they only have 30 million people and they just started to try the gay marriage thing.

[IrishCarBomb]

You mean to tell me that Burkina Faso bans gay marriage?!?!? We better do it to, because when it all boils down it is about international popularity.

[calazhage]

Yes, Burkino Faso and about 191 out of the other 195 nations on Earth..

[sally4sara]

OK, let's back track a bit.. In post 436 S4S said the above..And used the word "marriage" Supposedly half the world recognizes same sex marriage. Then a map is posted..

 

Then of course you try to later say you never said the word marriage,said I could not read, and you said partnership.. Nice try. See above. Even if you said "partnership" that is still a tiny % of societies on Earth. NOWHERE NEAR HALF.

 

Debate the evidence instead of attacking me. How did you come up with half the world? Population? land mass? Countries? I know canada looks big on the map but they only have 30 million people and they just started to try the gay marriage thing.

 

Yes, I later noticed I used marriage in one post when trying to convey my point. I am sorry for my mismanagement on words. I will acknowledge my faux pas. My next post attempting to make the same point AGAIN, didn't have this mismanagement. This is why having to constantly hash and rehash anything laid out for you is so frustrating. It would be nice if the only time you got confused was when someone mismanaged a word or had a spelling error. We might get somewhere in a discussion. But its everytime.

 

Please also take note of WHERE the least tolerance of gay partnership can be found. Not much tolerance of anything going on there so it stands to reason that gay folk would be persecuted as well don't you think? You could move there if you share their views. Except, they might not like what is different about you either.

 

I see you've changed your name. I'll update you to ignore too. I'm done arguing with people who seek justification for hating and segregating others. You get what you give and you run into this a lot. Everyone makes a mistake or typo eventually, but the things you express are not a mistake you made. And homosexuality is not your one predjudism. I'm not your shrink nor are you paying me for the headache.

 

Again, partnership is a broad description of many kinds of romantic relationships and gay marriage was not the only option displayed in the map's key. The information included in the map did not include population, but you can look up the population count of the different areas if you'd like.

 

Religious scapegoating is what started the whole anti-gay attitude to begin with. Nero married a man. Rome fell under his rule. It HAD to be because he was gay of course. They wrote a book about it and called in Revelations. It can now be found in the christian bible.

[39388]

I see you've changed your name. I'll update you to ignore too. I'm done arguing with people who seek justification for hating and segregating others. You get what you give and you run into this a lot. Everyone makes a mistake or typo eventually, but the things you express are not a mistake you made. And homosexuality is not your one predjudism. I'm not your shrink nor are you paying me for the headache.

Isn't it funny how "both" boxing123 and calzhage are anti-gay sexist antisemites who post in very similar ways?

[Jake Barnes]

Yes, I later noticed I used marriage in one post when trying to convey my point. I am sorry for my mismanagement on words. I will acknowledge my faux pas. My next post attempting to make the same point AGAIN, didn't have this mismanagement. This is why having to constantly hash and rehash anything laid out for you is so frustrating. It would be nice if the only time you got confused was when someone mismanaged a word or had a spelling error. We might get somewhere in a discussion. But its everytime.

 

Please also take note of WHERE the least tolerance of gay partnership can be found. Not much tolerance of anything going on there so it stands to reason that gay folk would be persecuted as well don't you think? You could move there if you share their views. Except, they might not like what is different about you either.

 

I see you've changed your name. I'll update you to ignore too. I'm done arguing with people who seek justification for hating and segregating others. You get what you give and you run into this a lot. Everyone makes a mistake or typo eventually, but the things you express are not a mistake you made. And homosexuality is not your one predjudism. I'm not your shrink nor are you paying me for the headache.

 

Again, partnership is a broad description of many kinds of romantic relationships and gay marriage was not the only option displayed in the map's key. The information included in the map did not include population, but you can look up the population count of the different areas if you'd like.

 

Religious scapegoating is what started the whole anti-gay attitude to begin with. Nero married a man. Rome fell under his rule. It HAD to be because he was gay of course. They wrote a book about it and called in Revelations. It can now be found in the christian bible.

The Roman Empire collapsed during the reign of Nero?

[39388]

The Roman Empire collapsed during the reign of Nero?

I'm no expert on the Roman Empire, but it is very clear that some of your statements in this thread have not been true.

[Jake Barnes]

I'm no expert on the Roman Empire, but it is very clear that some of your statements in this thread have not been true.

Is it clear?

 

What statements?

[39388]

Is it clear?

 

What statements?

 

But if people who believe gay marraige is ethical (or indeed even exists) want to keep pushing this agenda on me Ill keep voting against it

You claim that an agenda is being pushed on you, which is not true. Nobody is forcing you (or anyone in your family) to gay marry.

 

 

Is anyone stopping them from working?

 

Frome doing what they want?

 

In about 3/4 states, you can be fired just for being gay or lesbian. In many states, they can't see a dying partner and there are no civil unions or marriage. They can't adopt kids in most states. The list goes on. They can't do anywhere near what they want, as compared to opposite sex couples.

[sally4sara]

The Roman Empire collapsed during the reign of Nero?

 

Constantine needed more soldiers. He had created an absolutely huge empire from the rubble after the fire that occurred under Nero. So large that his borders included many different faiths. He decided to create a religion that could appeal to all of them by borrowing familiar themes from the major faiths of his lands. Christianity was his solution for military solidarity. He commissioned bibles to be made.

He wanted to really set his empire apart from what he had "rescued" it from. Some attempt to instill pride in those who would join his armies. Nero had gay relations. This was seized upon as one of his evil acts that caused the "fall of the empire" Constantine resurrected. He really felt the changes he had made resulted in something separate from Rome as anyone had known it prior. His own version of REM's "Its the end of the world as we know it."

 

While finishing the bibles the propaganda used to draw broad comparisons between Constantine and the previous rulers that had plagued Rome. So the story of Nero was the one chosen as the extreme and it now exists as Revelations in the christian bible. Because of this and the many editions made, homosexuality became a big theme through out the bible we know today. It's content is the largest reason cited for why anti-gay groups are, well..........anti-gay. Stories that didn't even previously have anti-gay themes were changed to include it. Sodom and Gomorrah was initially a story of a city that angered god not because of homosexuality, but because they had forgotten the virtue of hospitality. Instead, we have THE anti-gay propaganda piece fundamentalists use to justify their bigotry.

 

I remember a guy I did some charity work with who was very religious and anti-gay. I didn't really touch the subject with him because he often boasted about his 5 years majoring in christian theology at christian college. One day we worked on a team with two gay women who were "life partners" together. I worried he would offend them but he instead seemed aroused. I chided him for his hypocrite attitude to which he used his 5 years of study to tell me lesbianism was not a sin; only gay men were fated for hell. Funny how god's judgment conveniently made allowances for his preferred sexual fantasies!

[39388]

I remember a guy I did some charity work with who was very religious and anti-gay. I didn't really touch the subject with him because he often boasted about his 5 years majoring in christian theology at christian college. One day we worked on a team with two gay women who were "life partners" together. I worried he would offend them but he instead seemed aroused. I chided him for his hypocrite attitude to which he used his 5 years of study to tell me lesbianism was not a sin; only gay men were fated for hell. Funny how god's judgment conveniently made allowances for his preferred sexual fantasies!

No surpise there. Isn't the fundamentalist motto "do as I say, not as I do" or something like that?

[Island Girl]

Yes, Burkino Faso and about 191 out of the other 195 nations on Earth..

 

I haven't gotten around to counting the countries yet.

 

But let's just assume for the moment this is true.

 

Then your point would be what?

 

"I am going to stick my head in the sand and agree with the prejudice and oppression towards homosexuals because everyone else does."

 

There are still countries where men are allowed to kill their wives if they have an affair.

There are still countries where men can kill their wives if their wife wants to leave them.

 

And it has ALWAYS been that way.

 

Does that make it "okay"? NO.

[clv0116]

Christianity was his solution for military solidarity.

 

No, Christianity existed well before Constantine. The Catholic, or Universal, church was created by Constantine.

[Jake Barnes]

Constantine needed more soldiers. He had created an absolutely huge empire from the rubble after the fire that occurred under Nero. So large that his borders included many different faiths. He decided to create a religion that could appeal to all of them by borrowing familiar themes from the major faiths of his lands. Christianity was his solution for military solidarity. He commissioned bibles to be made.

He wanted to really set his empire apart from what he had "rescued" it from. Some attempt to instill pride in those who would join his armies. Nero had gay relations. This was seized upon as one of his evil acts that caused the "fall of the empire" Constantine resurrected. He really felt the changes he had made resulted in something separate from Rome as anyone had known it prior. His own version of REM's "Its the end of the world as we know it."

 

While finishing the bibles the propaganda used to draw broad comparisons between Constantine and the previous rulers that had plagued Rome. So the story of Nero was the one chosen as the extreme and it now exists as Revelations in the christian bible. Because of this and the many editions made, homosexuality became a big theme through out the bible we know today. It's content is the largest reason cited for why anti-gay groups are, well..........anti-gay. Stories that didn't even previously have anti-gay themes were changed to include it. Sodom and Gomorrah was initially a story of a city that angered god not because of homosexuality, but because they had forgotten the virtue of hospitality. Instead, we have THE anti-gay propaganda piece fundamentalists use to justify their bigotry.

 

I remember a guy I did some charity work with who was very religious and anti-gay. I didn't really touch the subject with him because he often boasted about his 5 years majoring in christian theology at christian college. One day we worked on a team with two gay women who were "life partners" together. I worried he would offend them but he instead seemed aroused. I chided him for his hypocrite attitude to which he used his 5 years of study to tell me lesbianism was not a sin; only gay men were fated for hell. Funny how god's judgment conveniently made allowances for his preferred sexual fantasies!

Constantine was some three hundred years after Nero and the Roman Empire was much weaker at the time of Constantine than it was in the glory days of the First Century

 

The fire during Nero's reign had nothing to do with the reign of Constanine

 

This post is truly absurd (not to be rude, Im usually a nice guy)

[calazhage]

I haven't gotten around to counting the countries yet.

 

But let's just assume for the moment this is true.

 

Then your point would be what?

 

"I am going to stick my head in the sand and agree with the prejudice and oppression towards homosexuals because everyone else does."

 

 

Well, the post is a rebuttal to another poster who FALSELY claims "Half the world recognizes gay marriage."

 

I am sure soon the terms bride and groom will be extinct. Along with husband and wife. Everyone will just be called "partners".. All because maybe 1% of the 2% of gays might want to marry to import a young third world boy to have sex with, or for some govt benefits.

 

If gays are allowed to marry, I say let's do away with the institution of marriage altogether. What is it really for anyway? Friends of the same sex can marry, gays marry, bisexuals marry, etc.. Let's just completely do away with marriage.

[marlena]

If gays are allowed to marry, I say let's do away with the institution of marriage altogether.

 

No need to bother. It is slowly dying anyway with or without gay marriage.

[sally4sara]

Constantine was some three hundred years after Nero and the Roman Empire was much weaker at the time of Constantine than it was in the glory days of the First Century

 

The fire during Nero's reign had nothing to do with the reign of Constanine

 

This post is truly absurd (not to be rude, Im usually a nice guy)

 

I didn't create the theory. People who study the Roman Empire, religious theology, and the languages involved hold this theory. Look into it.

 

It wouldn't be the first time someone created a religion out of the fiction of others. Just because it happened a long time ago and isn't called scientology or mormonism doesn't mean christianity is truth.

[Mr. Lucky]

Haven't read all 30+ pages of this thread, but I like Roseanne's line -

 

"I'm all for gay marriage. Why not let them be miserable like the rest of us..."

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jake Barnes]

I didn't create the theory. People who study the Roman Empire, religious theology, and the languages involved hold this theory. Look into it.

 

It wouldn't be the first time someone created a religion out of the fiction of others. Just because it happened a long time ago and isn't called scientology or mormonism doesn't mean christianity is truth.

No Roman historians would never hold such a theory because it is ludicrous (at least my understanding of what you have written)

 

What is the name of this theory or any scholar who has written about it

 

Let me get this str8 though...according to you Christianity was never morally opposed to homosexuality....until Constantine resurrected the Roman Empire which disintegrated after Nero's fire....at which point Constantine villified homosexuality because Nero had been a homosexual...thats your theory?

[calazhage]

No need to bother. It is slowly dying anyway with or without gay marriage.

 

Slowly dying? over 90% of women marry in their life..What % of gays typically marry? 1-5%.

[marlena]

Slowly dying? over 90% of women marry in their life..

 

And over 50% divorce. Does this not tell you anything?

[sally4sara]

No Roman historians would never hold such a theory because it is ludicrous (at least my understanding of what you have written)

 

What is the name of this theory or any scholar who has written about it

 

Let me get this str8 though...according to you Christianity was never morally opposed to homosexuality....until Constantine resurrected the Roman Empire which disintegrated after Nero's fire....at which point Constantine villified homosexuality because Nero had been a homosexual...thats your theory?

 

Here is one of the first links that came up out of 236,000 simply by typing in "constantine invented christianity".

 

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.history.ancient/2007-10/msg00122.html

 

Constantine likely had no aim at creating such a huge hatred of homosexuals, but he started the ball rolling when he decided to commission the creation of the bibles. Many years of editing took his disdain of Nero to more and more hateful views of homosexuality.

 

And you should, absolutely should keep digging into this. You'll find people who absolutely believe this as well as people who, just like you did earlier, think its complete crap. The point is its ALL THEORY. The bible, christianty............every religion in existence. Its ALL THEORY.

We live in a country where part of our government is the legislative branch. Concern for our ability to be wrong about things has led to the burden of proof residing with the prosecution. So why are we allowing THEORY to be used to deny the rights of others? The very fact that all these theories cannot be proven and, often times, conflict completely with each other means they cannot be used as proof. But they still discriminate and prop up their reasons with theories to do it.

 

And ask yourself why you don't like the theory I offered you out of the many theories I could have chosen to use. It is certainly more likely than some dude up in the sky mating with a virginal human girl and then their kid dying somehow can unlock some imaginary gate to some imaginary afterworld for all us vile sinners amen.

Is it because the dude in the sky and his fleshy son were introduced to you at a much younger age by people you trusted? You met god as a child and that makes him believable and nothing else that doesn't require supernatural powers can get through?

Even if you still decide its crap, can you not at least see why people who don't buy the "dude in the sky hates it" reasoning for denying their rights might be just a tish upset that it is used to do that very thing?

[calazhage]

Marlena, yes it tells me society has become more selfish and self serving. Is that a good thing? No.

 

Since you like stats, only a tiny % of gays (1-5) would want to marry. That tells me their relationships are fundamentally based on something different.

 

Heteros marry with the intent of being with that person forever in most cases. That leads to a healthy society.

 

America's democratic republic is not perfect either. Should it be scrapped and just have anarchy?

[39388]

Since you like stats, only a tiny % of gays (1-5) would want to marry. That tells me their relationships are fundamentally based on something different.

Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it true.

[sally4sara]

No, Christianity existed well before Constantine. The Catholic, or Universal, church was created by Constantine.

 

Christianity before Constantine was tiny and not at all similar to christianity today. It was also the unorganized heathen religion of the poor. Nero was no fan of the poor so he got to be thought of as the first to oppress the christians as well. Like he was the first emperor to crap on the poor or something!

Prior to Constantine commissioning the bibles, christianity was just some essays floating around. He decided which of these essays to use, which to chuck, and which ones still needed to be written for his agendas. The bible is an over edited version of Constantine's design. Writing history how he wanted it written. So yeah, not truth enough to use to deny people's rights.

 

Why is this so foreign? It was just on the History channel less than a month ago.