Why don't men want to get married?

[sally4sara]

not to mention that fathers get the shaft in divorce....retirements pillaged, get their children taken away from them and they have to pay money to the mother for the generosity of only getting to see them a few times a month ...ya, I can see why men love marriage in this day and age:rolleyes:

 

I've yet to meet a father going through a divorce that actually was asking for primary custody. The one guy I know who did this never married the girl and had to jump through hoops because of it despite having been the one raising the kid to begin with. He still won, but it was hard and expensive.

 

The men never seem to want primary custody, seem to prefer to pretend they got "forced" out.

 

Any one on here ask for primary custody, was on equal footing with their spouse but got rejected? A lot of you sound like you've never even been married to know what you're talking about. And conveniently act like you've never met a woman who has been cheated on be her husband or left for someone else.

[Sam Spade]

That is the most stupidest comment I've heard on the topic of marriage, and is at least ONE of the reason why the institute of marriage is going down the crapper.

 

Jesus, folks approach marriage like it's no different than going out and buying groceries. No wonder it sucks for some.

 

Sad, really.

 

For the MOST of human history marriage had NOTHING to do with love. It was merely an institution to regulate property and inheritance rights.

 

Marriage has only been explicitly linked to romantic love for the last few hundred years or so. So, save the condescending comments . We all do it, but let's try to pick our fights .

 

(Conversely, insisting that love is the primary ingredient of marriage is pretty convenient if you have an agenda, but from man's point of view, marriage doesn't add anything at all to the love relaitonship as such. It merely creates a legal structure on top of it that will challenge that relationship every day )

[Sam Spade]

Fair enough, spade. But, remind me. HOW long have they been together..and HOW old is he?? 42 or something?? LOL

 

Okay... I will take the title of being self righteous. But she aint getting married unless she some how badgers him into it. I betcha hes not just gonna ask her cause he WANTS to. How do i know? Well I dont really..thats why I said i betcha!

 

These women think they will change a man's mind. If they are just loving enough, take care of the guy very well, he will come around. They think if I just show him how good of a woman I am, he will change his mind. So they just continue to be the good little girlfriend and hang in there. LOL Yah.

 

No, its not too far fetched to think that some guys just dont want to get married NOW.

 

But, it's ALSO not far fetched to believe that some men just aint the marrying kind, and DONT want to get married..not NOW..not EVER.

 

Yea, fair enough - I didn't mean to talk about a particular situation. But

this is promarily a simple personal boundaries issue - i.e. decide whats a reasonable pace of the relationship and stick with it (or walk away). Because the truth is that the only way to get to marriage (in a healthy way anyway) is precisely being loving and patient enough, and basically having a great relationship that a guy would want to extent and solidify by proposing. Any sort of ultimatums pressure, passive agressive behavior etc. make a man instantly determined to NOT want to get married to that particular woman. And if he's weak and actually caves to the pressure just to appease her, he will be unhappy and resentful, and she will instantly lose all respect to him, and this just sets an awul precedent for the rest of the marriage.

 

I know that if things go as well my girlfriend as they have, and if she is the cool girlfriend she is, I know that *will* marry her *some day*. But any ultimatums and pressure would pretty much shut me down automatically - although I might still enjoy handing out with her as a girlfriend.

 

So, it is a personal boundary issue because there are no guarantees and assurances. So, if getting married to a woman is really important, she needs to decide for herself what, and how long, a satisfactory progress should take, and if things don't go the way it is important *for her*, she should cut her losses and move on and stop bitching. Nobody should linger indefinitely hoping that things would turn around, but it is a long and fuzzy process, and everybody decides for themselves what's their comfort level, and if it can't be reconciled, both should simply walk away.

[Dexter Morgan]

But what about pre-nups? Aren't pre-nups supposed to protect you from such matters?

 

from what I understand they aren't legally binding anyway. Besides, thats like saying, "sign this in case you turn out to be one huge c### later"

[Sam Spade]

from what I understand they aren't legally binding anyway. Besides, thats like saying, "sign this in case you turn out to be one huge c### later"

 

Prenups are leaglly binding - to an extent. If a judge doesn't "like" it, he can discount it or throw it out altogether;

[Dexter Morgan]

I've yet to meet a father going through a divorce that actually was asking for primary custody.

 

thats because it is a losing proposition. I asked my attorney about it and he told me that I will lose any custody battle because I have a "d!ck".

 

And that unless I have something real tangible on her that proves her to be an unfit mother, then I'll lose. And unforutnately, infidelity and leaving the kids home with me while she went out and screwed around isn't grounds for deeming a mother unfit.

 

I know men that wanted custody, but didn't go for it because they would have lost. A mother WILL get custody unless she willingly gives it up.

 

 

The one guy I know who did this never married the girl and had to jump through hoops because of it despite having been the one raising the kid to begin with. He still won, but it was hard and expensive.

 

and what was the cause of the verdict that declared the mother unfit?

 

 

Any one on here ask for primary custody, was on equal footing with their spouse but got rejected?

 

yup, ...me. but in honesty I wasn't rejected...was just told by my attorney that I would be unless I had something on her.

 

 

A lot of you sound like you've never even been married to know what you're talking about.

 

I was, and went through divorce. Watched two friends go through divorce. Trust me, i know what I'm talking about.

 

 

And conveniently act like you've never met a woman who has been cheated on be her husband or left for someone else.

 

No, we realize it happens on both ends. But read the title of the thread again. It didn't ask why women don't want to get married.

 

And women can be scared of marriage for one of the same reasons...cheating...etc. But men have more to lose, history has proven that. I lost the joy of being with my kids on a daily basis....END OF STORY.

[clv0116]

Prenups are leaglly binding - to an extent. If a judge doesn't "like" it, he can discount it or throw it out altogether;

 

You put like it in quotes, so you probably know this, but in most States he can't just throw it out without reason and have it stand. If the prenup is carefully and reasonably worded it's a pretty solid contract.

[subdued]

I've yet to meet a father going through a divorce that actually was asking for primary custody. The one guy I know who did this never married the girl and had to jump through hoops because of it despite having been the one raising the kid to begin with. He still won, but it was hard and expensive.

 

The men never seem to want primary custody, seem to prefer to pretend they got "forced" out.

 

Any one on here ask for primary custody, was on equal footing with their spouse but got rejected?

 

My older daughter's husband has a son from a previous relationship. He, the mother, and his parents all tried to gain custody of the boy. The judge asked the boy who he wanted to live with, and the boy said his grandma. The boy had lived with his mom, his dad, and his grandparents before. The judge took the boy's wishes into consideration. The grandparents now have custody. His dad's feelings were hurt. He had been trying hard to gain custody of his son only to find out in the end that his son preferred to live with his grandparents.

 

I think the son made a wise choice. His grandparents not only have a lot of love to give the boy, they also are more stable than my daughter and her husband. The mom has mental issues. I have seen her be verbally abusive to the boy.

 

The boy was 10 at the time. I read that after age 12, the child can choose who he/she wants to live with in California.

 

The boy stays with his mom or dad during school breaks.

 

My ex had custody (that was the law overseas), but he wanted me to take care of the kids. He did send some money over whenever I was out of work, but it wasn't much. He gives my younger daughter some money to help with her schooling now that she attends university. It isn't much. I figure if I'm going to take care of the kids, then I should pay the brunt of the cost. Besides his money ends up not to be much after it is converted into US dollars.

 

My boyfriend doesn't want custody of his daughter. He needs his "space." Seeing his daughter every other weekend works well for him. If her mom died, then I would want to take care of her. I think my boyfriend would be okay with that.

 

My dad didn't want custody of me. He told me that girls should live with their mothers and dropped me off at her place.

 

 

A lot of you sound like you've never even been married to know what you're talking about. And conveniently act like you've never met a woman who has been cheated on be her husband or left for someone else.

 

I find it strange that people keep talking about wives cheating. I always thought it was the men who cheated the most.

[clv0116]

I find it strange that people keep talking about wives cheating. I always thought it was the men who cheated the most.

 

Turns out women are just sneakier.

[sally4sara]

thats because it is a losing proposition. I asked my attorney about it and he told me that I will lose any custody battle because I have a "d!ck".

 

And that unless I have something real tangible on her that proves her to be an unfit mother, then I'll lose. And unforutnately, infidelity and leaving the kids home with me while she went out and screwed around isn't grounds for deeming a mother unfit.

 

I know men that wanted custody, but didn't go for it because they would have lost. A mother WILL get custody unless she willingly gives it up.

 

I was, and went through divorce. Watched two friends go through divorce. Trust me, i know what I'm talking about.

 

No, you don't REALLY know what you're talking about. You only know what your lawyer didn't feel like doing the work for. More appropriately, lawyers tell men these things because they figure money is the more important issue and they advise how your best financial outcome can be had.

You can only blame yourself for what you didn't try to do.

 

No, we realize it happens on both ends. But read the title of the thread again. It didn't ask why women don't want to get married.

 

And women can be scared of marriage for one of the same reasons...cheating...etc. But men have more to lose, history has proven that. I lost the joy of being with my kids on a daily basis....END OF STORY.

 

The fact is, men actually come out of marriage with kids better off financially on average than women.

 

http://www.massey.ac.nz/~kbirks/gender/econ/weitzman.htm

 

Take note of the top portion (studies of 11 years up to 1996) as applicable to the USA.

 

Even a more male sympathetic article agrees men are financially better off than women after divorce.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132639&page=1

 

Fellas,

 

I'm not saying divorce doesn't stink and I'm not pretending women to be saints compared to men. I think you'll find all kinds in any lot you look at. But if you're going to help yourselves or others - be truthful. Don't buy the sensationalism. Our courts make money off of this crap for as long as we view each other as the enemy. If you have a kid and the marriage doesn't work, WHY can't or won't the man be the primary parent? Why do some men want a SAHM for a wife, but then wonder why alimony exists? For that matter, who did you think the kids would end up with?

 

Why is it after so many generations of men being the ones to cheat, leave kids behind, divorce for the younger trophy wife......

now things are a bit more even in the race to be the worst one can be as a man or a woman in a marriage - its all women's fault now? It seems to me they are just doing what they saw their fathers do. The only way we can change this is if we be the better example for our kids. Instead, we divorce and even after it is final, continue to be united in a battle of revenge.

 

If I had never married my son's dad, they would not have given him the option to pay child support of his own volition. They would've started off garnishing. Now? He doesn't pay. If I want to do anything about it, I have to take time off of work and go pay a filing fee to start action against him. I did. Three months later, they call me and ask for copies of my divorce and custody settlement. These are public record! But I have to file again, WITH the copies provided for them from the courthouse the office is right next to. I wonder how long it will be before anything comes of it? And even if they do start to garnish him - they get a cut of it first for actually doing something about it.

 

How did my ex fare worse than I in anyway the court caused?

[clv0116]

The fact is, men actually come out of marriage with kids better off financially on average than women.

 

Really depends on what you measure there.

[Woggle]

Why is it after so many generations of men being the ones to cheat, leave kids behind, divorce for the younger trophy wife......

now things are a bit more even in the race to be the worst one can be as a man or a woman in a marriage - its all women's fault now? It seems to me they are just doing what they saw their fathers do. The only way we can change this is if we be the better example for our kids. Instead, we divorce and even after it is final, continue to be united in a battle of revenge.

 

 

This let's payback men for what our fathers did to out mothers mentality is exactly why so many men are scared of marriage. It doesn't matter how well you treat a woman because you will have to pay for what some other man did to her.

[sally4sara]

This let's payback men for what our fathers did to out mothers mentality is exactly why so many men are scared of marriage. It doesn't matter how well you treat a woman because you will have to pay for what some other man did to her.

 

I never considered it pay back and I don't have that mentality. But if I grew up seeing one half of my parents cheat without much consequence, I might think it really wasn't a big deal. How would that qualify as no big deal? how is it revenge?

 

You pay too much attention to the small things.

 

Never paying attention to real big things that wildly conflict with your warped ideas of women being the cause of every problem. You don't even have kids to have gone through today's custody standards to even know what you're talking about. Has anyone tried to hedge you out of raising a child? Nope.

You just run off about things that happened - how long ago now wogs?

And your crazy ex - she just a GF or did you wife her up and give her over 50 percent of everything you had?

 

What recent personal experience do you have with today's divorce?

[carhill]

What recent personal experience do you have with today's divorce?

 

I'm going through one right now. No kids. 9 years. I'll journal a synopsis as things proceed. I decided amicable mediation was more cost-effective. I like my lawyer but not that much

 

In Cali, uncontested divorces aren't that difficult nor expensive. The key is getting everything lined up before filing; settling out and separating property issues first. So far, it makes the whole process easier. Of course, both parties have to cooperate to make it work. I don't envy those 'War of the Roses" type marriages where the spouses are at each other's throats. Thankfully, none of that here.

 

Yes, I'll get married again in the future. Lots of potentials out there. I'm not afraid of commitment. I can always make more money and buy more stuff. Life isn't about those things, to me anyway.

 

We each makes choices every minute of every day. Choose wisely

[subdued]

Of course, both parties have to cooperate to make it work. I don't envy those 'War of the Roses" type marriages where the spouses are at each other's throats. Thankfully, none of that here.

 

That is how I felt when I got divorced. I wanted it to be as amicable as possible. I remember my folks were at each other's throats when they got divorced, and I didn't want my kids to have to go through that.

[Dexter Morgan]

No, you don't REALLY know what you're talking about.

 

yes, I do, and not just because of my story. I have watched two friends fight for custody, and followed the story of a friend of a friend. Each case they fought for about 2 years about custody. and in the end, because the men didn't have anything tangible on the mother, and the mother couldn't say the fathers were unfit either.....guess what....the mother's won.

 

 

You only know what your lawyer didn't feel like doing the work for.

 

nope, the stories are out there, the articles you posted don't mean squat. Us father's know what happens in real life.

 

 

More appropriately, lawyers tell men these things because they figure money is the more important issue and they advise how your best financial outcome can be had.

 

EXACTLY!!! which is why they would advise against fighting it because they know we'd LOSE. If they thought we could win, it would be best for a father financially.

 

So your example only served to prove why lawyers advise against fighting a losing battle.

 

 

No, we realize it happens on both ends. But read the title of the thread again. It didn't ask why women don't want to get married.

 

 

And women can be scared of marriage for one of the same reasons...cheating...etc.

 

absolutely, but what I said above was in response to your comment that I somehow am "conveniently act like you've never met a woman who has been cheated on be her husband or left for someone else. "

 

I'm not conveniently acting like anything. I'm full aware women can be in the same boat and fear marriage for the same reasons. But again, read the title of the thread.

 

 

But men have more to lose, history has proven that. I lost the joy of being with my kids on a daily basis....END OF STORY.

 

The fact is, men actually come out of marriage with kids better off financially on average than women.

 

http://www.massey.ac.nz/~kbirks/gender/econ/weitzman.htm

 

 

maybe better off financially, but not better off than before. And it doesn't matter if the man still comes off better.

 

point was that if a man works his arse off to plan for his future, then all that has to happen is for a woman to come along, get married, cheat, then leave with a good chunk of his retirement.

 

Oh, but I suppose that by trying to say what you did, that makes it ok for a woman to cheat and pillage the man's retirement....whether he still comes off better or not?

 

 

If you have a kid and the marriage doesn't work, WHY can't or won't the man be the primary parent? Why do some men want a SAHM for a wife, but then wonder why alimony exists? For that matter, who did you think the kids would end up with?

 

 

with what you said above, you just reaffirmed why men get the shaft and pretty much admitted why women get the favor.

 

I work a full time job...doesn't mean I can't have custody and provide day care for them until I get home from work.

 

and even though this is a known scenario, the courts STILL favor the women.

 

 

Why is it after so many generations of men being the ones to cheat, leave kids behind, divorce for the younger trophy wife......

now things are a bit more even in the race to be the worst one can be as a man or a woman in a marriage - its all women's fault now?

 

no, not at all. You are trying to shift the conversation.

 

men who cheat are scumbag dickheads.

 

but again, if you want to start a thread about that, i'd be happy to meet you and COMPLETELY AGREE with you in it.

 

 

If I had never married my son's dad, they would not have given him the option to pay child support of his own volition. They would've started off garnishing. Now? He doesn't pay. If I want to do anything about it, I have to take time off of work and go pay a filing fee to start action against him.

 

now we are getting somewhere as to your attitude in the responses...just as in why my attitude is with mine and my responses......our situation.

 

There are good men out there that gladly pay child support, but would also rather we had custody and lost the joys because our wives decided they couldn't remain faithful.

 

then there is your side of the coin where if your X isn't paying support, he is a lousy father.

 

I'm speaking from the side of good fathers. Sorry about the fact your child's father isn't a father at all and it sucks you have to go to court to get him to pay. Why haven't they issued a withholding order?

 

 

I did. Three months later, they call me and ask for copies of my divorce and custody settlement. These are public record! But I have to file again, WITH the copies provided for them from the courthouse the office is right next to. I wonder how long it will be before anything comes of it? And even if they do start to garnish him - they get a cut of it first for actually doing something about it.

 

not where I'm from. The support payer has to pay the fee for garnishment. And even if they didn't its some very small amount...like a couple of dollars a month for clerical costs.

 

How did my ex fare worse than I in anyway the court caused?

 

you got custody didn't you? but its really a moot point in your case, your X isn't a father in any sense of the word if he doesn't want to make sure his children are getting what they need.

[clv0116]

maybe better off financially, but not better off than before. And it doesn't matter if the man still comes off better.

 

point was that if a man works his arse off to plan for his future, then all that has to happen is for a woman to come along, get married, cheat, then leave with a good chunk of his retirement.

 

Exactly. This "men come out better financially" argument is a load of horsesh*t because people (women mostly) compare how things were in the marriage to how things are after. That's not the choice men are faced with, particularly in the context of this thread.

 

A man has to consider how things are for him pre-marriage compared to post-divorce. That is really the only comparison that matters and no one seems to realize it. I don't CARE what your shared standard of living is, it's not shared any more. What should matter is how things are now compared to before the marriage.

[sally4sara]

nope, the stories are out there, the articles you posted don't mean squat. Us father's know what happens in real life.

 

 

Oh, but I suppose that by trying to say what you did, that makes it ok for a woman to cheat and pillage the man's retirement....whether he still comes off better or not?

 

 

 

I stopped reading once you started assuming I think crappy actions are okay so long as its the woman doing them. No point in dealing with irrational people. Especially when you say you don't care what facts and statistics I can show, you already have your mind made up about how it is for everyone. Okay woggle jr.!

 

Your lawyer advised you the way he/she (like you would hire a female lawyer! ) because they are use to men only caring about money. You decided money mattered more and didn't fight for you kids.

 

If my ex-roommate, who never married his son's mother, was able to win custody, you could have too. You didn't try, so you will never know for sure what would or wouldn't happen.

 

PS, when you talk to me, don't bother bringing up infidelity, it isn't part of my vocabulary and I will not suffer the anger you carry over it's role in your life.

[Dexter Morgan]

I stopped reading once you started assuming I think crappy actions are okay so long as its the woman doing them. No point in dealing with irrational people.

 

why not? I've dealt with you:)

 

 

 

Your lawyer advised you the way he/she (like you would hire a female lawyer! ) because they are use to men only caring about money.

 

and if that is true, then if he thought I could win custody, dontcha think he would have advised me to go for it? I think so.

 

but he knew all that would happen was alot of money spent and I would lose anyway.

 

again, your arguments are not proving your point....but mine.

 

He asked me what I had that could be shown that she was an unfit mother....all I had was infidelity. He said the court won't take that into consideration.

And when he asked what else I had, and that I really hadn't anything else, he told me i have nothing. And unless a mother can be proven unfit, the mother WILL get custody.

 

 

 

 

You decided money mattered more and didn't fight for you kids.

 

no, I decided its a waste of money to fight a losing battle. If I thought there was any chance of winning, I'd have fought it.

 

I know you are trying to make me out to be a bad father...and thats ok, because you don't know s##t. just because your X is a lousy father...aint the case with a majority of men out there.

 

so nice try pumpkin.

 

 

If my ex-roommate, who never married his son's mother, was able to win custody, you could have too.

 

and under what circumstances was he able to win? Only way he would have won is if the mother was proven unfit, or the mother agreed to let him have custody.

 

so do tell.....how did he get them? And saying just fighting for them doesn't cut it...it takes more than that. If the mother didn't give up custody, then she was proven unfit. And proving a mother unfit takes some really tangible evidence.

 

and no, being a cheating wh0re doesn't count....unfortunately.

 

 

PS, when you talk to me, don't bother bringing up infidelity, it isn't part of my vocabulary and I will not suffer the anger you carry over it's role in your life.

 

why would I bring up infidelity? you a cheater? and if you weren't, then I don't even know what the relevance is of your statement above.

[BUENG1]

I stopped reading once you started assuming I think crappy actions are okay so long as its the woman doing them. No point in dealing with irrational people. Especially when you say you don't care what facts and statistics I can show, you already have your mind made up about how it is for everyone. Okay woggle jr.!

 

Your lawyer advised you the way he/she (like you would hire a female lawyer! ) because they are use to men only caring about money. You decided money mattered more and didn't fight for you kids.

 

If my ex-roommate, who never married his son's mother, was able to win custody, you could have too. You didn't try, so you will never know for sure what would or wouldn't happen.

 

PS, when you talk to me, don't bother bringing up infidelity, it isn't part of my vocabulary and I will not suffer the anger you carry over it's role in your life.

 

So your theory is his lawyer misled his client into thinking he couldn't win custody to avoid the dozens maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars he could make from a drawn out custody fight? Really?

[Dexter Morgan]

So your theory is his lawyer misled his client into thinking he couldn't win custody to avoid the dozens maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars he could make from a drawn out custody fight? Really?

 

you got that too huh?

[Sam Spade]

If I'm an unscrupulous lawyer, it would be in my best interest to advice my client to fight, particularly protracted and unlikely to win 'battle'. I'll rack up my hours, get paid, and at the end be all "Well, we did everything we could".

 

If I'm a lawyer with some integrity, I'd try to discern if there is even a remote likelihood of winning the case, and if there isn't, fighting it anyway would potentially hurt my reputation (and certainly would hurt my client's finances).

 

Women like to be all vulnerable and weak - when it pays to pretend so, like in divorce proceedings .

[solo_flyer]

Would you invest your whole life savings, everything you ever did or worked for, into one single stock in the stock market?

 

Getting married is the same thing.

 

Especially since the judicial systems in the Western world and now tilted in favor of women in divorce / custody proceedings if something goes wrong since judges are afraid of looking misogynistic, it is just a no-win situation for men. Even if it was fair, the risk factor is still insane.

 

Not getting married is dead-simple common sense.

[Dexter Morgan]

If I'm an unscrupulous lawyer, it would be in my best interest to advice my client to fight, particularly protracted and unlikely to win 'battle'. I'll rack up my hours, get paid, and at the end be all "Well, we did everything we could".

 

If I'm a lawyer with some integrity, I'd try to discern if there is even a remote likelihood of winning the case, and if there isn't, fighting it anyway would potentially hurt my reputation (and certainly would hurt my client's finances).

 

spot on and well said. If I had a chance at winning why wouldn't my lawyer say, "I think we can get custody for you"?

 

especially when there is money in it for him/her? You bet.

[subdued]

I don't CARE what your shared standard of living is, it's not shared any more. What should matter is how things are now compared to before the marriage.

 

That is true. Both the husband and wife loose financially after the divorce. It simply costs more to live in separate homes. We should stop blaming each other for how our standard of living decreases after the divorce. Post-marriage is harder for both of us.

 

As for who gets custody, American customs still favor the women. All else equal, the wife will probably get custody with the husband having visitation rights on the weekends and holidays. Who's to say which is better. The wife complains that she gets to look like the bad guy, having to make the kids go to school, blah, blah, blah. She says that the husband gets to look like the good guy, taking the kids to fun places. The husband complains that he doesn't get to see his kids enough, that his wife got custody.

 

The fact is, divorce isn't good on the kids. However, neither is being in a bad marriage.

 

So perhaps that's why guys are so reluctant to get married. They are scared that they won't make the correct decision and will either get stuck in a bad marriage or getting divorced.

 

So why aren't women so reluctant to get married? Why are we so confident that are marriages will work, that we won't end up in a bad marriage or getting divorced? And that even if the worst happens, and we somehow end up getting divorced, it will somehow be alright in the end?