You'reasian Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 The discussion in spookie's "Loner" thread got me wondering about guys who say they want an independent woman, particularly this quote from Johan: What exactly do you guys mean by "independent" anyway? What's your definition of it? If it means what I think it means (emotional independence... not looking to a guy to give her a life or make her "complete"), this seems to be in direct contradiction to what guys actually settle down with - a woman who IS dependent on them. Men like to feel NEEDED and USEFUL to someone. How do you explain the discrepancy? When you say "independent" does that only apply to the BEGINNING of your relationship with her, where you're looking for signs of a healthy individual, that she doesn't need you to have a full life, and you have to work hard to convince her that she'd be better off with you? Does this become less important over time - do your expectations change? Inquiring minds want to know!! How about interdependent women? Women whom are capable of doing things on their own but also appreciate that they can depend on the man they are with. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Gah. The more I read, the less I understand. It's good for a woman to be independent (because it means she won't be high-maintenance and demand much from the man) -- as long as she doesn't brag about it or take pride in it. I think I'm doing the right thing by keeping guys at arms-length. It's a lot less confusing that way.:D Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 That's because you lack the intellectual resources to understand the analogies. Why because I don't agree with you it makes me intellectually inferior? Inferior to what again? I think I understand what your problem is with independent women, you just need a woman to submit to your way of thinking and when she doesn't it makes you feel threatened. See I told you if we explored it you'd get to the bottom of what your hang-up is. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Gah. The more I read, the less I understand. It's good for a woman to be independent (because it means she won't be high-maintenance and demand much from the man) -- as long as she doesn't brag about it or take pride in it. I think I'm doing the right thing by keeping guys at arms-length. It's a lot less confusing that way.:D Each of us men are different. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Each of us men are different. Yes you certainly are! It seems many of you are sending us women a lot of mixed signals about the independence thing. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. But it feels like you want us to bend ourselves into a pretzel, and act one way (quiet & submissive) yet be another (strong and independent). And I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to do that for you. (I mean "you" as in men at large, not you personally, You'reasian.) Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Yes you certainly are! It seems many of you are sending us women a lot of mixed signals about the independence thing. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. But it feels like you want us to bend ourselves into a pretzel, and act one way (quiet & submissive) yet be another (strong and independent). And I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to do that for you. (I mean "you" as in men at large, not you personally, You'reasian.) I just want my woman to be herself and enjoy being with her. If I chose her, that means that I love her. I've never expected any woman to be quiet and submissive. She's gotta be my partner, my equal.... except when we wrestle! I might let her win once or twice.... maybe Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It seems many of you are sending us women a lot of mixed signals about the independence thing. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. But it feels like you want us to bend ourselves into a pretzel, and act one way (quiet & submissive) yet be another (strong and independen) That's the bottom line OB, I think a lot of these guys don't even know what they want anymore than a lot of women know what they want. I think there were some good valid points made by a few guys on this thread, but then again I know that they are older and have experienced quite a bit, but sometimes that doesn't even matter. I meet 40 yr old guys that are 10 times more unstable and immature than some of their younger counterparts. In my life I have encountered two types of men, those who say they like a woman who has her own thing going on and those who mean that. The ones who only say it are the ones that take it as a deep scarring sign if they ask them out to do something and she happens to already have plans for that specific time, they see this as a real blow to the ego and get somewhat discouraged. They also tend to be the types of guys who like to do their own thing but when it's your turn to do your own thing they pull subtle disapproving hints or give you the silent treatment for a week because they won't communicate to you that they are pizzed off you wanted to do something other than be with them for one friggin night. I am not even talking about going out drinking or to some singles night thing, just simply not being with him when he feels like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OpenBook Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 They also tend to be the types of guys who like to do their own thing but when it's your turn to do your own thing they pull subtle disapproving hints or give you the silent treatment for a week because they won't communicate to you that they are pizzed off you wanted to do something other than be with them for one friggin night. I am not even talking about going out drinking or to some singles night thing, just simply not being with him when he feels like it. I heard that! It's very frustrating. They don't want to play by the same rules they try to impose on us. What's good for the goose is TOTALLY unacceptable for the gander. Well, I call BS on that. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I heard that! It's very frustrating. They don't want to play by the same rules they try to impose on us. What's good for the goose is TOTALLY unacceptable for the gander. Well, I call BS on that. Shouldn't there be some kind of dialog going on between the two of you? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Shouldn't there be some kind of dialog going on between the two of you? Yes there is and when it comes in the form of "I tend to be independent and like my space" it is met with dissaproval by some men it's considered bragging or a deep seated insecurity and immaturity. So we can't win no matter how we are. Listen here is the bottom line: if we are hot enough and really good in bed guys will put with all kinds of crap from us. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 if we are hot enough and really good in bed guys will put with all kinds of crap from us. The reverse is true lol Link to post Share on other sites
Isolde Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 How about interdependent women? Women whom are capable of doing things on their own but also appreciate that they can depend on the man they are with. I like your approach, You'reAsian. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yes there is and when it comes in the form of "I tend to be independent and like my space" it is met with dissaproval by some men it's considered bragging or a deep seated insecurity and immaturity. I dated a girlfriend a few years back who was independent and had her space - never bragged or anything, I was just glad she was able to get out and enjoy herself. The trust between us was really strong. Is that so wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I dated a girlfriend a few years back who was independent and had her space - never bragged or anything, I was just glad she was able to get out and enjoy herself. The trust between us was really strong. Is that so wrong? No, it's ideal! Is that you in the pic? You are dreamy. Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I like your approach, You'reAsian. Thanks, Isolde My best relationships were the ones with a good deal of interdependence. You can't be around a person 24/7 and in some cases that would drive each other batty in the beginning - The two of you have responsibilities, friends and hobbies etc. And need time to handle those things. You just need to establish trust and then its all good. Have you ever looked at someone and gotten the vibe that you could trust them? Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 No, it's ideal! Is that you in the pic? You are dreamy. .......Almost Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 .......Almost Ha, I look it up earlier today. I knew the pic was a bit too good to be true... Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Ha, I look it up earlier today. I knew the pic was a bit too good to be true... How do you look up a picture? I think I am about to find the most valuable piece of information ever given on LS! Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Ha, I look it up earlier today. I knew the pic was a bit too good to be true... I would compare the pic with one of me about 3 years ago (no, we're not that much off ) Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Ha, I look it up earlier today. I knew the pic was a bit too good to be true... That's Russell Wong, a hottie halfer-asian actor! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Wong Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 How do you look up a picture? I think I am about to find the most valuable piece of information ever given on LS! I'll PM you. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Oh man I feel so stupid!!! Someone wanna sell me a free standing wall or something, I'll pay big bucks? Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Oh man I feel so stupid!!! Someone wanna sell me a free standing wall or something, I'll pay big bucks? ??? Wall? Why do you feel stupid? Link to post Share on other sites
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Oh man I feel so stupid!!! Someone wanna sell me a free standing wall or something, I'll pay big bucks? LOL. I'd have to change some facial features, but it'd be close. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 ??? Wall? Why do you feel stupid? Feel stupid because I was the last to know apparently that pic is of an actor. Free standing wall meaning gullible, what would I even do with a free standing wall? But if you press me enough I might bite because I am gullible. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts