Career VS Family

[Touche]

Quite an extreme example here, don't you think? Not ALL working moms do this.

 

 

 

This called also be classified as "clingy" "needy" and "antisocial"- not necessarily a good thing.

 

That's the thing. It's all about perception I guess. What is clingy and needy to one parent is quite another thing to another parent.

 

One parent may think one temper tantrum a week is abnormal and excessive and another parent may think it's perfectly normal.

 

We could go around and around about this for months, years, decades!

 

We're all just giving our individual takes on this.

 

Some have made up their minds, others are more flexible and open.

 

Myself, well I didn't really know what would work best for us as a family until I tried it ALL. And having tried it all out, I'm absolutely sure that what we're doing works best for US.

 

I don't look down on a parent who doesn't have to work but does anyway. I really don't. Do I think they're a bit selfish and not doing the best thing by their child? Sure. Do I wonder why they'd even have children? Yep.

 

So what? Why should anyone else care what someone else thinks. As long as you think you're doing the very best for YOUR child, so be it. As long as YOU can live with your decisions and not feel guilty about it, then so be it again.

[Touche]

I can see how sole practioners (or VERY small firms) can do this, but when you're working on the types of cases I do (sometimes with as many as 5 attorneys working on one case) and constantly in-and-out of each others' offices and meetings to pow-wow and strategize, the idea of telecommuniting doesn't make much sense.

 

Makes me wonder about being a solo someday.......

 

YES! Why not? You can maybe even find a small office in another small firm to rent.

 

It sure was scary when we started out but it all worked out. It also helps to be situated in a smaller market where there isn't so much competition. You'd be surprised how quickly you start to get referrals by word of mouth, etc.

[Tomcat33]

Examples, please?

 

Read the thread, I don't feel like pointing out the obvious. Too many to cut and paste. 29 pages worth to be exact.

 

 

You aren't a parent either, however you are quite happy to dispense advice about it too, just like the other non parents on this thread who you have criticised for doing so. Doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite?

 

No actually it doesn't make me hypocrite. I am not giving any form of advice I am sharing MY observation. As well I don't come here pretending to know what it's like to be a parent when I am not. Again, these are my observations of those people around who ARE parents, and how their children are.

 

 

Are you? Are you open-minded enough to be prepared to change YOUR stance on this issue if you become a parent?

 

Sure I am if I saw evidence that latch key/nanny kids are better off than kids who had hands on moms/parents, sure I would change my stance but I have yet to see that.

 

 

We are all entitled to them, and some of the posters on this thread who you have accused of being "off the mark" are merely expressing theirs.

 

Nah, some of the posters in this thread are saying they can do something and comparing it to others when they haven't a clue what it's like to be there, and some of those same people are already pawning off their kids on their partners and nannies they haven't even had the kids yet.

 

 

You don't want us to pick apart your argument now, do you? Its only fair seeing as you have been so scathing of others. (without backing up your statements I might add)

 

go for it, free country free forum for expression.

 

Quite an extreme example here, don't you think? Not ALL working moms do this.

 

As "extreme" as the arguments again. The bottom line is that a mother who does not devote her time to her babies is simply not hands on, stay at home or working. Pawning off babies to nannies is NOT hands on no matter how much "time" you schedule in your outlook calendar to be with them.

 

This called also be classified as "clingy" "needy" and "antisocial"- not necessarily a good thing.

 

You are WAY off the mark, and flat out WRONG, actually. It is called being cautious of strangers and knowing where their foundation of trust is based. These same kids who look for affection anywhere they can get it, turn into teens who go around seeking love in all the wrong places and even mores so confusing sex with love.

 

My niece is 13 months old she can read words and recognizes words when we show them to her and from looking at words alone she will make the animal noise that corresponds with it. Is already saying a lot of words is SUPER bright picks up on everything and is so quick to adapt, these kids have a mom and dad who are super hands on, the mom isn't just home all day she divides her day up in different activities for the baby, play time learning time, mom and me time she even takes her to local art galleries and play dates with other babies at a local indoor playground the whole day revolves around this baby's development. You mean to tell me a nanny is going to do the same? OR that a working home who comes home tired and stressed from her day at work is going to devote the same kind of time? Sure she will sit with the kid for an hour or two but what is that? These parents read to her they sit with her and do all the video training materials that fast track babies into the path of genius learning plus they are very affectionate with them the dad is super affectionate too and generally happy. I have NEVER seen such a happy little and extremely extroverted little girl she smart but cautious at the same time of people she doesn't know as well, but take her to any mall or any publuc place and she has "words" and smiles for all. She is FAR from clingy, FAR from it, she plays with other kids idependently and you can leave her in a room full of kids and guaranteed she will be the one going around orchestrating play while her parents are in the other room. Anyone of our network of friends/family can babysit her and she never cries or fusses except for when she wants to sleep late at night or when she is hungry. She is funny as heck and so good natured.

 

This is no coincidence because her brother was the EXACT same way when he was a baby, they are well adjusted and play well with other kids. Now their cousins who are from a working mom home who is never home and just recently decided to work from home has a live in nanny and her kids are shy, they get angry a lot throw temper tantrums when playing with the other kids of if someone tells them "no don't do that" they start bawling their eyes out and screaming. Where as the other two, my sis' kids just put whatever they are not supposed to be touching down and move on. It is so GLARINGLY obvious the differences in these kids. The working mom kids will seek out the love of anyone in the room except their mother. The 22 month one follows the nanny around at family gatherings and doesn't say a word she just comes up to you and wants to be hugged and carried, all she says is "mommy" to the nanny.

 

If you can live with that, then the more power to you. The funny thing is that this woman wants to have more kids, might as well start a baby factory not like you are around to be a major part of these little girl's lives anyway, so why the heck not? She "loves" being a mom! :lmao:

It's a joke.

[Trialbyfire]

My niece is 13 months old she can read words and recognizes words when we show them to her

This is almost impossible. This tells me alone, that you don't have much knowledge or exposure to children.

[Tomcat33]

This is almost impossible. This tells me alone, that you don't have much knowledge or exposure to children.

 

It tells you JACK. It tells me YOU don't really know much about parenting OR early childhood development at all

 

Here you go educate yourself:

 

http://www.tryyourbabycanread.com/ce-y-who.aspx

 

Look at the videos.

 

I have living proof it works but don't take my word for it.

[Trialbyfire]

It tells you JACK. It tells me YOU don't really know much about parenting OR early childhood development at all

 

Here you go educate yourself:

 

http://www.tryyourbabycanread.com/ce-y-who.aspx

 

I have living proof it works but don't take my word for it.

So you link me to an ad that discusses learning to read BETWEEN the ages of 3 months to 5 years as your proof? You've got to be kidding.

 

I'm sure there are 10 toddlers in this entire world who are capable of reading, while 13 months old but I highly doubt your niece can. Why don't you bring over a book that she's never seen before in her life and get her to read to you.

 

I doubt she's truly reading, as defined by knowing the alphabet and being able to phonetically sound out words and understanding each word.

 

She probably recognizes some familiar books with the odd word, represented by the word as a picture v. truly reading.

 

Most kids can recognize pictures/symbols and associate the type of animal it represents.

 

That ain't reading, darlin'!

[Tomcat33]

I linked you to a tool that parents use in early childhood development, the tool doesn't teach itself you NEED the parent doing their part.

 

I'm sure there are 10 toddlers in this entire world who are capable of reading, while 13 months old but I highly doubt your niece can. Why don't you bring over a book that she's never seen before in her life and get her to read to you.

 

My niece and nephew are two of those 10 toddlers. And guess what? Those 10 toddlers had hands on parents who took the time out to intruce reading to them very early on.

 

I doubt she's truly reading, as defined by knowing the alphabet and being able to phonetically sound out words and understanding each word.

 

 

What did you expect a thesis on world economics?

 

What a waste of time to even try to explain this to you. Carry on "mommy" you know best. :laugh:

[Trialbyfire]

My niece and nephew are two of those 10 toddlers. And guess what? Those 10 toddles had hands on parents who took the time out to intruce reading to them very early on.

Most definitely, I highly doubt it but you can believe whatever you want to. It's your reality behind the screen!

[Tomcat33]

Most definitely, I highly doubt it but you can believe whatever you want to. It's your reality behind the screen!

 

 

Listen lady I have nothing to prove to you stick to your skeptiscm, general lack of trust, and carry on in your one dimensional ways.

Mehh, no skin off my back.

[Touche]

Holy crap this shyt is funny! A thesis on world economics!

 

Oh god ladies...after the crap I've been dealing with for the last couple of hours (once again with Verizon) I owe you guys everything for the comic relief. Man, oh man.

 

Ok, back on topic. Look how advanced our son is...he's not yet quite 13 and had two girls over for some hot tubbing yesterday on their snow day! No nanny-raised child would be that bold!

[Star Gazer]

Why don't you bring over a book that she's never seen before in her life and get her to read to you.

 

I've seen an 18 month old be able to read certain words off the cover of Newsweek. I sh*t you not. Those words?

 

"God"

 

"Bad"

 

"Time"

 

And she really did know the meanings of those words.

 

It was truly AMAZING, but if I've seen it I'm sure it's possible for others...

[Meaplus3]

Some of the comments in this thread are SO ridiculous and so OFF the mark, that unless you ARE a parent you haven't a clue what it is REALLY like to be a parent.

 

As a very busy mother of 3,You hit the nail on the head here. Now take a bow Tomcat while I applaud YOU.

 

One thing I'm not understanding is how a person who is not a parent can think they even have a clue about working while raising kids or staying home and rasing them. I've said this before and I'll say it again. "You don't know until you in it"! And besides it's a very personal choice to begin with.

 

Mea:)

[Trialbyfire]

I've seen an 18 month old be able to read certain words off the cover of Newsweek. I sh*t you not. Those words?

 

"God"

 

"Bad"

 

"Time"

 

And she really did know the meanings of those words.

 

It was truly AMAZING, but if I've seen it I'm sure it's possible for others...

Six months can make a BIG difference but in either case, the toddler isn't really reading, within the confines of knowing the alphabet and phonetically sounding out words based on alphabet. I would be more apt to believe that an 18 month old could honestly read, than a 13 month old.

 

It's primarily picture recognition in that the word is a symbol for the word and yes, they can understand the meaning of the word but not truly be able to read.

[Touche]

Mea, I agree. I guess that's why before I had our son I didn't have a clue what would work best for us. I tried it all.

 

I mean before I ever had him I didn't have my mind already made up like some do here. That's why I'm admiring the non-parents who have no idea what will work best and are keeping an open mind. I can respect that.

 

I can't really respect any non-parent who has already decided how it will be. It's like someone on here said previously, you're leaving out one big factor...the child. You might be able to control some things i.e. "I'm so capable that I can multi-task and be there for my child AND for work. Not all women can be as capable as me...yada, yada" But what they're not taking into account is how the child will be and how the child will respond.

 

You really can't call all the right shots until you're presented with the situation.

 

As for this whole reading thing well, I do have formal education in this area and must say that sight reading and phonetic reading ARE entirely different things. Don't even get me started on that one! I had to fight our son's old school on this very issue. I also fought my professors.

 

This is an entirely other topic that we could debate for years...trust me. Even the professionals can't agree about this one. I of course have very strong opinions about it.

[Star Gazer]

It's primarily picture recognition in that the word is a symbol for the word and yes, they can understand the meaning of the word but not truly be able to read.

 

You mean they see something like this: (((***^^^ and by association think that means they should make a complete "God" sound, but don't actually know that the ((( - which is actually a "g" - makes a "guh" sound, and the *** - really, "o" - would make an "oohhh" sound, and the ^^^ - "d" - would make a "duh" sound??

[Star Gazer]

I mean before I ever had him I didn't have my mind already made up like some do here. That's why I'm admiring the non-parents who have no idea what will work best and are keeping an open mind. I can respect that.

 

*raising hand*

 

No clue here!

 

But I have a problem moving forward with a major life decision without "knowing" what's supposed to work and what won't...and this seems like it's impossible to know! Eeek! I worry that I'll make a decision to have kids thinking I'll have this "plan" all set out (after a thorough analysis of all the options, of course), and then find myself completely effed when it doesn't go as planned.

 

I'm so worried about this... ugh.

[Trialbyfire]

You mean they see something like this: (((***^^^ and by association think that means they should make a complete "God" sound, but don't actually know that the ((( - which is actually a "g" - makes a "guh" sound, and the *** - really, "o" - would make an "oohhh" sound, and the ^^^ - "d" - would make a "duh" sound??

Yes!

 

It's like a toddler looking at a picture of a cat and saying "meow" or "cat". They see C A T and say "meow" or "cat". Babies aren't born knowing that the word "cat" is associated to that warm, fuzzy, little animal with sharp claws and teeth, that's primarily a pet. They learn to apply word to picture or sight.

 

True reading is knowing how it starts with the alphabet, how the sounds per letter mesh to create words.

[Meaplus3]

Mea, I agree. I guess that's why before I had our son I didn't have a clue what would work best for us. I tried it all.

 

 

I had no clue either. I always worked for many years and I did not have a clue what it would be like to be a SAHM until I became one. Lucky for me it worked and it's a decesion I will never regret. But it's a tough "Job".. and a "Job" it is. And there have been many days when I have wished to be out in the work force, but in my heart I see and feel the benefits of my choice paying off. And how is it that I know that? Because I've lived it. I'm a Mother.

 

 

I mean before I ever had him I didn't have my mind already made up like some do here. That's why I'm admiring the non-parents who have no idea what will work best and are keeping an open mind. I can respect that.

 

 

That's the most important thing right there is to keep an open mind about it. It's far to easy to think you have this giant plan in order and then when your put in the situation of knowing what will be the best for You and your child.. it can backfire pretty quick and one can have a change of heart.

 

I can't really respect any non-parent who has already decided how it will be.

 

Look at it this way, they will find out one day.

 

Mea:)

[Star Gazer]

Yes!

 

True reading is knowing how it starts with the alphabet, how the sounds per letter mesh to create words.

 

I get it now.

 

I agree with you there. Now I wonder if that baby was reading or merely seeing symbols. I think I was duped.

 

[Touche]

*raising hand*

 

No clue here!

 

But I have a problem moving forward with a major life decision without "knowing" what's supposed to work and what won't...and this seems like it's impossible to know! Eeek! I worry that I'll make a decision to have kids thinking I'll have this "plan" all set out (after a thorough analysis of all the options, of course), and then find myself completely effed when it doesn't go as planned.

 

I'm so worried about this... ugh.

 

I just wrote a whole thing out about this and it disappeared! GRRR. The bottom line of what I wrote was you're screwed if you think you can plan this all out ahead.

 

Have some alternate plans and be open and you'll never be effed.

 

We can't always plan out everything in life. Those of us who are that rigid get screwed.

 

I think SB said that vis-a-vis kids you can plan all you want but you're leaving out the unknown variable..the CHILD! You have no idea how that child to react to your interactions with him (or lack thereof) until you have that child.

 

As for your post about the reading. You were dead on. Again, I've had formal education in this (I was on the teaching track in college...enough credits for a minor. Teaching reading was a big part of the curriculum.)

 

Sight reading and phonetic reading are worlds apart. What you described was sight reading or what's called "whole word" as I recall.

[Tomcat33]

I've seen an 18 month old be able to read certain words off the cover of Newsweek. I sh*t you not. Those words?

 

"God"

 

"Bad"

 

"Time"

 

And she really did know the meanings of those words.

 

It was truly AMAZING, but if I've seen it I'm sure it's possible for others...

 

Of course kids can read words. The things is SG you are clued in to this and the best part is that you don't even profess to know about parenting. That is what is so completely ironic or is the word I am looking for "moronic"?

 

 

As a very busy mother of 3,You hit the nail on the head here. Now take a bow Tomcat while I applaud YOU.

 

One thing I'm not understanding is how a person who is not a parent can think they even have a clue about working while raising kids or staying home and rasing them. I've said this before and I'll say it again. "You don't know until you in it"! And besides it's a very personal choice to begin with.

 

Mea:)

 

 

It is called arrogance Mea, some people are so complete arrogant to the real sacrifice and extremely hard work it is to be a parent they think "oh piece of cake". And I do hope they are hungry because I do see big piece of humble pie headed their way.

 

It's a piece of cake if you are going to pawn off your children on your husband and nanny but otherwise you are in for a HUGE surprise. I am not even a mom but I have the utmost respect for all mothers out there doing it the best they know how. Especially you Mea with three kids I commend you and your hard work, and sacrifice it is VERY hard work that goes for the most part completely unnoticed.

 

I especially enjoyed a comment earlier to the effect of how "giving is not a sacrifice, I give when I know it's being reciprocated and if it is not I stop giving so no giving is not a sacrifice" that one made me laugh out loud since being a parent is the most one way act of giving you can do since no one other than your partner (if that) will come to tell you "great job today and thank you for all the valuable lessons that was amazing parenting let's do it all over again tomorrow mom" there will be NONE of that. So what will you do then? walk away because your work is not being reciprocated? Pfffft that shows how out of touch it is to compare other things to parenting.

 

Of course it is a sacrifice and it is a life LONG sacrifice if you think it is anything less than that you TRULY haven't even scratched the surface of what it is to become a mom.

 

I have been "mom" to my nieces and nephews and when my nephew was born I was career transitioning and had a lot of time to be around him so it was like I was a mom to him, but guess what I am NOT a mom to them nor do I REALLY know what it feels like and what is like to be around a baby or two or three for that matter 24/7, so as much as I have played mom for intervals of time it's not the same until you are there day in day out making decisions figuring things out and reaping what you sow.

 

It is not the same to take a child that has been conditioned by someone else through the GOOD AND BAD and take care of them in spurts. I can TOTALLY 100% appreciate that.

 

 

 

 

Six months can make a BIG difference but in either case, the toddler isn't really reading, within the confines of knowing the alphabet and phonetically sounding out words based on alphabet. I would be more apt to believe that an 18 month old could honestly read, than a 13 month old.

 

It's primarily picture recognition in that the word is a symbol for the word and yes, they can understand the meaning of the word but not truly be able to read.

 

Sometmies I think you live in a bubble TBF. Honestly you are so smart and together for some things and this time you really are completely out of your element. I hate to say it but you need to do a LOT of research on childhood development, and please do not debate this subject until you do. I am surprised you know so little about this subject given your natural over-zealous preoccupation with all things psychology.

 

I especially take issue with the fact that you dismissed my comments about my 13month old niece, completely out of your own ignorance and then tried to tell me I am the one who is clueless about kids. Just because you don't know about something it does not mean it is not true or that others makes stories up, and this is where your arrogance stems from and why people feel the need to lose respect for you sometimes.

[Tomcat33]

I get it now.

 

I agree with you there. Now I wonder if that baby was reading or merely seeing symbols. I think I was duped.

 

 

 

My niece and I were looking at a book that I had bought her a while back and I got it off of her book shelf randomly I like it because it has pop out puppies and on one of the pages it said the word purple. I was reading the book to her and playing with the puppies and before I read the word she points at the word "purple" and said "puuuupuhhhh" I was SHOCKED. I look at my brother in law and said how the heck did she even know that? Then he showed me the new set of cards she was reading and purple was one of the words. She recognized words out of context. Is that NOT reading?

She IS 13months old of course she was not reading the BOOK but she is seeing the words that are being taught to her. Of course dog and baby and all those are old news but this one was incredible.

 

The other thing is that I always tell her good job and hug her and kiss her when she says words right (I make a big deal out of it) and some days she is not in the mood but other days she reaches for the cards and wants to read the words she enjoys reading them to me and I can see her really trying to excel I can see her pushing herself and her level of attention/enthusiasm increases the more words she gets right. It's remarkable to see.

[Touche]

TC, this is so true:

 

I especially enjoyed a comment earlier to the effect of how "giving is not a sacrifice, I give when I know it's being reciprocated and if it is not I stop giving so no giving is not a sacrifice" that one made me laugh out loud since being a parent is the most one way act of giving you can do since no one other than your partner (if that) will come to tell you "great job today and thank you for all the valuable lessons that was amazing parenting let's do it all over again tomorrow mom" there will be NONE of that. So what will you do then? walk away because your work is not being reciprocated? Pfffft that shows how out of touch it is to compare other things to parenting.

[Trialbyfire]

Tomcat, try taking all the letters of the alphabet and shuffle them around. Then ask her to sound out a random letter. Even better, ask her to spell "purple" with the alphabet flash cards. This will define if she can really read and understand word structure.

[popey]

I'm just catching up on this thread, but offer this. If a child's parents work, this does not mean he cannot get all he needs from them. A child needs to be fed when he's hungry and have his other health and comfort needs attended to; be protected from harm; given freedom to explore, develop and express his true self... and be able to trust and know that he is loved unconditionally and he matters.

 

If the parents are reliable about keeping their time commitments, show him respect by listening and talking and showing genuine and consistent love, his needs can be met. When they can't give him ALL he wants WHEN he opwants; if they talk about it, validate his feelings and work out other ways with his input on how to make him feel special; then their not being home all the time should be just fine.

 

There's my 2 cents. I am non-parent, but with a bit of education on the subject, and I had a stay at home mom