marlena Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Oh, and because one can never know what the future may hold, a divorce or the death of a spouse for instance, I would encourage every young girl to get an education and then a good job and not depend on any man to support her. Life is just too unpredictable.
Dumbledore Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 , I would encourage every young girl to get an education and then a good job and I think you mean a career. Jobs are dead boring.
marlena Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I think you mean a career. Jobs are dead boring ..whatever...
MindoverMatter Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 TBF: Come on, how am I supposed to answer how a kid in an example that you gave turned out the way your example states? Just in case, no, I won't be having crocodiles and thus will never be able to feed my children to any. I probably, though regrettably won't even have a castle - and with that goes the moat - and in those really introperspective moments I might even accept that marrying George Clooney is not really an option. Which leaves room for Javier Bardem, but anyway... One could think now, after I established that I won't be anywhere near able to react in the way I described, that the entire post was a joke and thus not to be taken too seriously. But I won't say it's a must.
Touche Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I think you mean a career. Jobs are dead boring. No, she probably meant a job because unlike with a career, there'd be no sacrifice in giving it up when the time comes to have kids.
MindoverMatter Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 You can take care of the crocodiles. It's a temp job, though.
Touche Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 You can take care of the crocodiles. It's a temp job, though. Would it be during school hours?
Trialbyfire Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 No, she probably meant a job because unlike with a career, there'd be no sacrifice in giving it up when the time comes to have kids. Sacrifice is solely in the realm of SAHMs who live in the land of martyr-dom!
Star Gazer Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Parenting isn't rocket science. People need to get a grip... If your child has behavioural problems to the extent that a child therapist/psychologist is necessary, look to your own parenting skills 9/10 times. Having said that, any parent who grits their teeth through mental illness, is doing their child and themselves no favours. Once again, poor, negligent parenting. It might not be rocket science, but I've never met a parent who said it was easy. Hence why it freaks me out so much! Also, I don't think mental illness is necessarily the result of nurturing, but nature. Chemical/hormonal imbalances are not the result of parenting.
Touche Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Sacrifice is solely in the realm of SAHMs who live in the land of martyr-dom! Martyr? Huh? And who said working moms don't make sacrifices too?. I'd go a step further in saying that they sacrifice more than anyone regarding the whole parenting issue.(Obviously I'm only referring to those who HAVE to work.)
Star Gazer Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Sacrifice is solely in the realm of SAHMs who live in the land of martyr-dom! TBF - honestly, this is crazy talk. One does not have to be a martyr to know that in order to have one thing, one must sacrafice another... whether that's time, money, energy, etc.
Trialbyfire Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 TBF - honestly, this is crazy talk. One does not have to be a martyr to know that in order to have one thing, one must sacrafice another... whether that's time, money, energy, etc. There's no sacrifice necessary. That's the attitude that makes for poor parenting. People have to want to do these things without holding it above the heads of their children and others.
Dumbledore Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 No, she probably meant a job because unlike with a career, there'd be no sacrifice in giving it up when the time comes to have kids. I guess jobs are for the lower class who lack any evidence of intelligent or sophisticated behaviour. Women with jobs would be so lucky to have the opportunity to be a nanny and take care of rich people's kids.
Star Gazer Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 There's no sacrifice necessary. That's the attitude that makes for poor parenting. People have to want to do these things without holding it above the heads of their children and others. Who says sacrafice requires you to hold it over anyone's head? I sacrafice time alone to do laundry to spend time with the BF. Do I hold it over his head? No. I sacrafice time with the BF to go to dinner with my girlfriends. Do I hold that over his head? No. I sacrafice time with my BF to write a kick as appellate brief at work for a client. Do I hold that over my boss' head? No. My mother sacraficed a LOT to raise me. She never holds it over my head. I don't think she even realizes it. There's always sacrafice. I don't see how one can live without it.
Dumbledore Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 There's no sacrifice necessary. Have to agree with that. Just like relationships aren't about compromise - it's all about getting what I want!
Trialbyfire Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Who says sacrafice requires you to hold it over anyone's head? I sacrafice time alone to do laundry to spend time with the BF. Do I hold it over his head? No. I sacrafice time with the BF to go to dinner with my girlfriends. Do I hold that over his head? No. I sacrafice time with my BF to write a kick as appellate brief at work for a client. Do I hold that over my boss' head? No. My mother sacraficed a LOT to raise me. She never holds it over my head. I don't think she even realizes it. There's always sacrafice. I don't see how one can live without it. I don't perceive anything I do for anyone as sacrifice. It was my choice to do it. If the other person doesn't appreciate it, then I stop doing it. You hear about parents doing this all the time. "Look what I gave up to take care of you" or "Look what I've done for you and all you can do to repay me, is to give me lip service?". Sorry, but I despise that kind of attitude when it was freedom of choice from the parent, to do whatever they did. Having said that, if a child is raised properly, they can appreciate what their parents have done for them, not in a sacrificial or martyrs way, but in appreciation of effort put into them. This is all tied into the guilt for parenting style of martyrs.
MindoverMatter Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Well, in my castle, we totally banned sacrifices. It's really messy and smells horribly. In fact, that neighbour of mine, who lives in a volcano and has those awesome flamethrowing thingys all up her alley, did too. We are a non-sacrificing community. Have a t-shirt! (I must have eaten a clown, I really apologize.)
Touche Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Who says sacrafice requires you to hold it over anyone's head? EXACTLY! That's what I was trying to say before. I mean when I gave up my job or career or whatever the hell you want to call it, we gave up a nice extra income. Now we won't retire as early as we had planned. Our son has no CLUE about any of that. It's not something we lord over him. Man, I mean just HAVING him was a sacrifice. We can't take vacations when we feel like it because we won't just leave him with anyone so we have to schedule vacations around school holidays, etc. I could go on and on. But of course we don't say those things to him. We chose to have him. We chose to make those sacrifices. No GREAT parent would lord what they should be doing anyway over their kids. (MoM you're cracking me up over here!)
Star Gazer Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Man, I mean just HAVING him was a sacrifice. Oh God, don't get me started. I WILL be having a tummy tuck after I'm done. And you can mock me and my plastic surgery all you want.
Touche Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Perhaps this might clear it up. Definition of sacrifice: a giving up of something especially for the sake of someone else The dictionary doesn't distinguish whether it's something you WANT to give up or not. It's just the mere act of giving one thing up for the good of someone else. THAT'S what makes it a sacrifice. Not whether you want to give it up or not.
Touche Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Oh God, don't get me started. I WILL be having a tummy tuck after I'm done. And you can mock me and my plastic surgery all you want. As someone who has had plastic surgery I wouldn't be able in good conscience to mock someone who has had it. (Except if I'm pissed off at them and want to push their buttons!) Not all women need tummy tucks though after birth. If you are one who needs one then I see nothing wrong with having one.
jasminetea Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Chemical/hormonal imbalances are not the result of parenting. Actually, I believe that chemical imbalances could well be a result of environmental factors, of which parenting is obviously part. Mind over matter is an extraordinary phenomenon and I believe that destructive parenting could contribute or even be solely responsible for, mental illness sooner or later in life And the sacrifice thing? Martyrdom (which I think is what you're referring to, Stargazer) is really about letting people know you've sacrificed something not the actual act of giving something up. I know, I'm an expert in it
Star Gazer Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Actually, I believe that chemical imbalances could well be a result of environmental factors, of which parenting is obviously part. Mind over matter is an extraordinary phenomenon and I believe that destructive parenting could contribute or even be solely responsible for, mental illness sooner or later in life You "believe"? Do you have any evidence? You sound like a Scientologist. Then how do you explain a family of 4 children, all close in age, who are raised the same way by the same parents under the same socioeconomic conditions, that has only ONE child with mental illness?
Star Gazer Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 And the sacrifice thing? Martyrdom (which I think is what you're referring to, Stargazer) is really about letting people know you've sacrificed something not the actual act of giving something up. I know, I'm an expert in it No, I'm not speaking of martyrdom. Read TBF's statement: nothing requires sacrafice, it's a choice. While I agree it's a choice, you ARE, in fact, sacraficing one thing for another. Whether that be time to have a baby, money to buy shoes, sleep to care for a crying child... you're always giving up (sacraficing) one thing for another. It's the way of life. Whether you choose to TELL people about what you're giving up is something completely different.
sb129 Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Personally, I think that there are good and bad parents on both sides of the fence. Working or not working isn't the definitive factor in establishing whether a parent is good or not. Other things such as patience,love, understanding, affection, setting a good role model and just being there at critical times is what is of utmost importance. . I absolutely agree. Oh, and because one can never know what the future may hold, a divorce or the death of a spouse for instance, I would encourage every young girl to get an education and then a good job and not depend on any man to support her. Life is just too unpredictable. And this is what I was brought up to believe by my mother, who is a teacher. She gave up work to have me and my brother and then went back when my brother was 3. Once we were both at school, she worked and was at home whenever we were. Perfect career to raise kids, IMO! As for me- I have a "career" (one degree one postgrad degree) but its one that can luckily be put onhold to have children without any problem- I can go back to it at any stage without detriment to said career. As previously stated, I work 30 hours a week, never bring work home, and earn a very good living from it. As also previously stated, H is a teacher who is home by 4pm every day. I think, that by making a few sacrifices, we will BOTH be able to have a good work/home balance between us, and if we decide to use childcare it will be for a maximum of 20 hours per week. Also, as previously stated, we are prepared to make changes to this if, once we are parents, we feel differently. Other people may feel differently and thats fine, its about working out what is right for you as a couple and taking it from there. If both parents are on the same page regarding this issue then thats an excellent start IMO.
Recommended Posts