Owl Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 I have no doubt that there is stress in an affair. The fear of getting caught, dealing with the feelings when he goes home to his wife after spending the time with you, etc.... Those are vastly different than dealing with the everyday stresses of living together all the time. Supporting a family. Etc, etc.. And some of those stresses actually FEED into the excitment. "Getting away with it". Knowing "he's taking a risk to be with me, but I'm important enough for him to want to take that risk for me". Sometimes the close calls get the adrenaline going and actually increase the excitement of the affair. Whereas there is nothing exciting about fighting over the budget for the month. That's the difference I was trying to point out. Hope it makes it a little clearer.
taylor Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 MOST affairs are based solely in taking time out for each other. Hence, the addiction without the reality. Most marriages also become based on taking time out for each other - in between jobs, household chores, kids, family obligations..Reality. Affair partners take time out for each other, too - in between jobs, household chores, kids, family obligations..It's just a different kind of reality. Who on this planet says two people can't love each other unless they pay bills together, clean out the garage together or take turns hauling the garbage out. Ironically, it's these realities of every day life that can erode feelings of love, rather than enhance them. Why do therapists tell troubled couples to take time for each other by going on a romantic getaway to get back those feelings of love. They don't encourage you to take time cleaning out the gutters together to get that love back. I don't think the reality that partners share validates whether the love is real or not. I think what it does is strengthen the committment to each other. It's the "I love you even though..." attitude and I think both affair and non-affair partners can share this attitude. I married person may say, "I love you even if you don't have any time for me because you are so busy with your job or the kids." An affair partner may say, "I love you even if you can't be with me because of family obligations." I also don't agree that you have to know a person 100 percent before you can say your love for them is real. Knowing your partner snores or picks his nose in his sleep doesn't validate true love.
taylor Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Have you told your husband this and what do you think he would think about your fond memories of the other man? Fair question. My husband knows everything. He is delighted that I am no longer yearning for this man. He is ecstatic that I have been able to put this man in my past. He is glad the EA did not turn physical. By the same token, he is not happy that we allowed our marriage to become so weak and vulnerable that an affair would threaten it. He is not happy that I allowed another man into my heart. He understands how and why I was able to connect with this man emotionally, even though he is not happy it happened. My husband knows he would be deluding himself if he let himself believe I would not have any kind of fond or pleasant memories of this man. If there was absolutely nothing good to remember about him or the relationship, the affair would never have happened in the first place. But you miss the point and that is that this man is a part of my past. His memory has no power over what I do in my life today. It took me 6 months to shut him out. But the door is closed and locked. My husband takes comfort in this knowledge. My husband and I are both well into our recovery. This was a wake-up call for both of us to reassess and recommit to our marriage, rediscover each other, and reawaken our love for each other that has been buried under all those mundane, obligatory responsibilities so many on this thread call REALITY. It's not a cake walk. We have a long way to go. But we are moving forward, just the two of us.
Al_Bundy Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Fair question. My husband knows everything. He is delighted that I am no longer yearning for this man. He is ecstatic that I have been able to put this man in my past. He is glad the EA did not turn physical. By the same token, he is not happy that we allowed our marriage to become so weak and vulnerable that an affair would threaten it. He is not happy that I allowed another man into my heart. He understands how and why I was able to connect with this man emotionally, even though he is not happy it happened. My husband knows he would be deluding himself if he let himself believe I would not have any kind of fond or pleasant memories of this man. If there was absolutely nothing good to remember about him or the relationship, the affair would never have happened in the first place. But you miss the point and that is that this man is a part of my past. His memory has no power over what I do in my life today. It took me 6 months to shut him out. But the door is closed and locked. My husband takes comfort in this knowledge. My husband and I are both well into our recovery. This was a wake-up call for both of us to reassess and recommit to our marriage, rediscover each other, and reawaken our love for each other that has been buried under all those mundane, obligatory responsibilities so many on this thread call REALITY. It's not a cake walk. We have a long way to go. But we are moving forward, just the two of us. Fair enough. Guess I just don't understand it. If I knew a partner of mine had "fond" memories of another man, I don't see how I could bring myself to reconnect knowing that. It would be bad enough doing that after any kind of an affair, let alone being with someone that has good memories of enjoyment with the affair partner. To each their own.
taylor Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 A WS, OM, or OW would be lying if they said they did not have any good memories of their affair partner. It makes it easier for the WS, OM, or OW to get over the affair if it turns ugly, though, because anger, bitterness and hatred can obliterate many of the good memories. But many affairs, like mine, don't turn ugly. They just end. And you aren't left with anything that illicits negative thoughts or feelings regarding the affair partner. We were two lonely, vulnerable, weak human beings who made a connection at work. It ended when work changes separated us. He was too afraid to take it any further. I felt too guilty to take it any further. It ended before it turned sneaky, sordid, or physical. This kind of ending makes it a lot tougher to get over sometimes. My husband and I don't focus on the affair anymore. We focus on each other. I will admit the reconnecting has been our greatest challenge, but we had that challenge even prior to the affair. We are determined to find and strengthen that connection and to never let our marriage get that weak or vulnerable again. We are working on building an impenetrable fortress!
Owl Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Taylor, a word of caution. Your H focuses on the affair far, FAR more than you realize. Its on his mind everyday. Every single day, he'll spend some portion of that time worrying through the whole thing in his mind. You're still way to early in recovery for this not to be the case. And yes, it bothers him that you look back warmly on OM. Make no mistake. He may not admit it to you, but this is absolutely the truth. I've been there. The good news is that eventually, even those fond feelings for OM will fade on your part. You'll get to a point where you'll look back on this whole thing, think of him...and feel only regret for the entire thing. The other good news is that he will also stop thinking about it as much, as time progresses and the two of you recover more and more.
Al_Bundy Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 A WS, OM, or OW would be lying if they said they did not have any good memories of their affair partner. Which is all the more reason to get rid of a WS. That and the fact I won't have to buy Peg bon bons any longer.
taylor Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Taylor, a word of caution. Your H focuses on the affair far, FAR more than you realize. Its on his mind everyday. Every single day, he'll spend some portion of that time worrying through the whole thing in his mind. You're still way to early in recovery for this not to be the case. And yes, it bothers him that you look back warmly on OM. Make no mistake. He may not admit it to you, but this is absolutely the truth. I've been there. The good news is that eventually, even those fond feelings for OM will fade on your part. You'll get to a point where you'll look back on this whole thing, think of him...and feel only regret for the entire thing. The other good news is that he will also stop thinking about it as much, as time progresses and the two of you recover more and more. OWL - I would be deluding myself if I didn't think my husband didn't think about the affair or wasn't upset because I still had fond memories. But we don't talk about the affair or the other man any more. Not for a couple months. I am hoping to get to a point of indifference but I am not there yet. And I do have regrets for allowing the friendship to cross emotional lines. But I still don't regret the friendship. Like you said, it's still way too early. But I haven't lost sight of the goals. Al - Point taken. I am very lucky my husband didn't do just that. Again, apologies for the thread jack. We've gone way off topic here so I respectfully bow out now.
frannie Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 I have no doubt that there is stress in an affair. The fear of getting caught, dealing with the feelings when he goes home to his wife after spending the time with you, etc.... Those are vastly different than dealing with the everyday stresses of living together all the time. Supporting a family. Etc, etc.. And some of those stresses actually FEED into the excitment. "Getting away with it". Knowing "he's taking a risk to be with me, but I'm important enough for him to want to take that risk for me". Sometimes the close calls get the adrenaline going and actually increase the excitement of the affair. Whereas there is nothing exciting about fighting over the budget for the month. That's the difference I was trying to point out. Hope it makes it a little clearer. Yes, as I said in my post, the stresses are different. But I'd like to point out that not everyone experiences the stresses of an affair as 'exciting' or positive or feeding anything but misery and discomfort. I'm sure people vary enormously in how they experience not living with the person they're in love with. Personally I don't find it in the least bit 'exciting'. Also, when people talk about affairs vs. live-in relationships it's almost suggested that every OW is single, in their twenties or otherwise has no clue about living with another person. It's almost assumed that they cannot, for themselves, see the difference between the two situations. Somehow it's forgotten that the OW is often herself married, with a spouse, and children of her own, and knows full well what a marriage looks like from the inside: she's cheating herself.
overandout Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I have no doubt that there is stress in an affair. The fear of getting caught, dealing with the feelings when he goes home to his wife after spending the time with you, etc.... Those are vastly different than dealing with the everyday stresses of living together all the time. Supporting a family. Etc, etc.. And some of those stresses actually FEED into the excitment. "Getting away with it". Knowing "he's taking a risk to be with me, but I'm important enough for him to want to take that risk for me". Sometimes the close calls get the adrenaline going and actually increase the excitement of the affair. Whereas there is nothing exciting about fighting over the budget for the month. That's the difference I was trying to point out. Hope it makes it a little clearer. Don't worry Owl. Some people can never accept that they were "played" by the mm and he never wanted or intended to leave home. Some people refuse to accept just how convenient they were to xmm in an affair eg. cheap board and lodgings.
Lookingforward Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Don't worry Owl. Some people can never accept that they were "played" by the mm and he never wanted or intended to leave home. Some people refuse to accept just how convenient they were to xmm in an affair eg. cheap board and lodgings. and it's posts like this that show the OW that having any empathy for the BS just isn't worth it. good job
NewSunrise Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 As one of many BS who kicked WH out and happily divorced, I can also empathize and understand with OW. OW fell for the same "qualities" I fell for in my xWH. As with my xWH, MPs become experts in the art of lying and cheating. My xH was. He used the same pet names he had for me for his OW. Oh, gag.:rolleyes: For OWs who hang on to MM hoping they will be picked over the BW, I can honestly say I do feel sorry for them. OW and I just happen to fall for a guy who knew exactly what to say and do and we fell for it. I work in an industry that I will work with someone and may never see again. I once worked with a great lady who was involved with a MM for 15 years. Shocked and speechless at first, I finally asked her, "Why?" She replied, I love him. Then I asked, "Are you happy?" Hesitantly, her words trailed, "well....I thought he would leave his wife.." So nosy me, I asked, "why didn't you just leave?" She said, "I don't know. It was hard and I couldnt. I love him. But at my age now, I'm not sure how." She's in her 50's. She lives alone. Has a cat. Spends holidays with friends while her MM with his wife and family. My first inclination was to grab her and shake her. But she settled in that position and is content. But what she couldn't hide was how unhappy she was. I looked at her and said, "you're not happy, are you?". She later confessed she wanted children but couldn't because of the situation. Her MM already had full grown kids. The BS still was not aware of the A. We parted ways on the second day. I wished her well. I saw her three months later. Nothing changed. Still with MM. I felt so sorry for her. It's a shame that if anything were ever to happen to either of them, how will each one say good bye to the other? Or will they ever know? If I had any advice to give to any OWs, the advice I have is love yourself first and foremost. This is probably the hardest thing to master. But it starts with setting standards for yourself. The rest will fall into place.
Al_Bundy Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 and it's posts like this that show the OW that having any empathy for the BS just isn't worth it. Yes, a BS doesn't deserve it, do they LF?
marlena Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 If I had any advice to give to any OWs, the advice I have is love yourself first and foremost. This is probably the hardest thing to master. But it starts with setting standards for yourself. The rest will fall into place. My advice would be to both OW and BSs to love themelves first and to hell with a lying, cheating man. This is especially true of men who have turned affairs into a national sport.
Author Reggie Posted October 13, 2008 Author Posted October 13, 2008 My advice would be to both OW and BSs to love themelves first and to hell with a lying, cheating man. This is especially true of men who have turned affairs into a national sport. Let's not confine this to one gender. Some of the recent studies seem to show that women are actually cheating at a higher rate than men. I know dozens of good guys whose wives have been the cheaters. It's rampant among a certain demogarphic of women.
OWoman Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Some people can never accept that they were "played" by the mm and he never wanted or intended to leave home. Some people refuse to accept just how convenient they were to xmm in an affair eg. cheap board and lodgings. Some MMs do not intend to leave "home" but land up doing so anyway, once the A shows them that R can be about mutual respect and enjoyment and passion, and not just about suffering. Some MMs put up with immense inconveniene to maintain the A, travelling to all ends of the world, investing large sums of money in the process, in return for love, respect and passion - that they were denied in their M, by the person who claimed to "love" them. Some MMs leave, some stay. Some love the OW, some love only themselves. Some OWs are in it for the love, some for the sex, and some for the thrill. Trying to paint all situations with the same brush is pretty silly, and posting inflammatory comments designed to boost one's own fragile self-esteem usually just turns the spotlight on how fragile that self-esteem is. I can understand why a BS would have fragile self esteem. But trying to deny that or excise it with put-downs to projections of the person who dealt their self-esteem that fatal blow doesn't really achieve anything in the long run. One still wakes up with oneself. (And one's CS with the OW...)
marlena Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Let's not confine this to one gender. Some of the recent studies seem to show that women are actually cheating at a higher rate than men. I know dozens of good guys whose wives have been the cheaters. It's rampant among a certain demogarphic of women. My omission. You are absolutely correct. It most definitely isn't confined to one gender.
Terminator Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Yes, a BS doesn't deserve it, do they LF? From what I've seen of your posts, you feel the same way about the OW, so (shrug) que sera sera, to each their own perspective, Al
Al_Bundy Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 From what I've seen of your posts, you feel the same way about the OW The BS wasn't the one doing the betraying. Sorry if I don't feel empathy for someone that doesn't care who they hurt. *shrug* right back.
OWoman Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 The BS wasn't the one doing the betraying. Sorry if I don't feel empathy for someone that doesn't care who they hurt. *shrug* right back. Sometims the BS not caring who they hurt (by the way they act in in the M) is what leads the CS to go out and "cheat"...
Al_Bundy Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Sometims the BS not caring who they hurt (by the way they act in in the M) is what leads the CS to go out and "cheat"... Great justification:rolleyes:
OWoman Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 Great justification:rolleyes: It's an explanation, not a justification :rolleyes: I'f you'll notice, I said "leads", not "causes". But I'll guess subtlety eludes the hellfire & brimstone brigade.... :rolleyes: (PS Al, any relation of Ted?)
Al_Bundy Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 (PS Al, any relation of Ted?) No, no relation. Just a tired old shoe salesmen married to a red headed, bon bon eating hellcat.
Author Reggie Posted October 14, 2008 Author Posted October 14, 2008 I seriously doubt that anyone is "led" to cheating by anything other than their own propensity for selfishnes and dishonesty. If someone is dissatified with their marriage, there are many other readily available options other than cheating. The vast majority of BS's I've talked to knew there were problems in the marriage but were dealing with a conflict avoidant WS who would not try to get help for the relationship. Most never even heard about the WS's dissatisfaction before discovering the affair. Seems there is a prevalent concept among WS's that people are supposed to be mind readers and that other people are responsible for their happiness.
Al_Bundy Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 This is the obvious part that cheaters refuse to acknowledge. That and that, although there may be some problems in the marriage that can be fixed, there is one truth in it all after an affair. One of them is now a cheater. To me its the point of no return. Nobody should have to live with someone that betrayed them in such a way. Those that do, good luck to them. Even if the marriage survives, I'll never be convinced that all is well deep down with the BS after an affair.
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