a letter to my MM's BW

[torranceshipman]

This post is crazy!

 

You and the MM sound like you are making his W's life a living hell. Knowing that you are doing this to her, and probably damaging that child too, can't you just walk away this time? You;ve given him so many chances, and he blew ALL of them, yet you and the W both stay around to be treated like crap over and over again (he treats you no better than he treats her). He's M, he wont leave the W, he's gaslighting you all over the place, he's turned you into someone you REALLY dont want to be (read back this entire post and you might agree) and you dont seem to have any boundaries at all, with respect to accepting his total and utter disrespect. He really treats you so badly, I wish you could understand this.

 

Walk away!!!-this is making EVERYONE miserable, and the MM is a jackass. And anyway, wtf is all that 'he cried over and over cause he couldnt bve with me?' ? Sheesh, man up, that guy sounds like he has the emotional capabilities of a 12 yr old, seriously.

[herenow]

I agree, all she has to do is walk away, but she won't because she is upset that he isn't doing what she wants him to do. IMO, she should send the letter and give him the reason he wants to walk away from her and move on to his next OW.

[noforgiveness]

I agree, all she has to do is walk away, but she won't because she is upset that he isn't doing what she wants him to do. IMO, she should send the letter and give him the reason he wants to walk away from her and move on to his next OW.

 

 

I think spinning wheels will walk away. I think she is very cruel hearted and controlling and as soon as she has what she wants, mm out of betrayed wifes hands, then she will dump mm. Seriously, she can't possibly want this man. She is only sneaking around with him, not married and yet she has all his passwords and all to monitor him because she doesn't trust him. What kind of life is that? This whole thread is bizarre.

[Angel1111]

She has already contacted me several times. She knows that we are together--he was with me today, and will be here tomorrow...trying to smooth things over. I am the one who is sick of being pulled into the drama. She knows alot about us--not everything. She knows of our past vacations, she see his e-mails...I just want her to leave me alone--I was giving him a final chance. He keeps asking for me to wait until the first of October--that this is their last vacation for his child. She is well aware of continuing contact, she at times contacts me.

 

I'm sure this letter sounds harsh, but believe me--you wouldn't believe the half of it. She has told me personally that she will stay put until she has more money put away. She has told me that she doesn't love him. She just doesn't want him to be with me, or to have her marraige end unless it is on her terms. She called me two weeks ago about an e-mail between us. She has not been in the dark for almost three years. She tolorates it, I tolerate it...but I am sick of being put in the middle.

 

I would not be dropping any kind of bomb on her. She Already Knows.

 

This letter may sound mean, but I am venting here, I really don't think I will send it--it is a thought. Believe me I have vented to him for hours the past two days. He hears me, he doesn't care if I send her a letter, call her or take out a billboard. He knows that we have spoken in the past. He knows that we will probably speak in the future. He never leaves me or throws me under the bus. He tries to keep me holding on.

 

As weird as this may sound, his wife has nothing to do with this. It's like you want to piss her off enough to make her leave him. Look, if he won't leave on his own, then you don't want him.

 

Also, no one is doing anything to you that you aren't allowing to be done to you. When he came back after the 6 mos, you should've told him then to not contact you until he either moved out or had the divorce papers in his hand. You control what you do and the choices you make. Don't ever turn those decisions over to anyone else, or pretend to yourself that you're the victim here.

 

Stick with what you told him - that if he goes on the vacation, it's over. Because he'll go and that'll be your out. And then don't let yourself get sucked back in again. If he doesn't go on the vacation, then ask him when he plans to move out.

[herenow]

I think spinning wheels will walk away. I think she is very cruel hearted and controlling and as soon as she has what she wants, mm out of betrayed wifes hands, then she will dump mm. Seriously, she can't possibly want this man. She is only sneaking around with him, not married and yet she has all his passwords and all to monitor him because she doesn't trust him. What kind of life is that? This whole thread is bizarre.

 

 

So what you're saying is that she really doesn't want the MM. What she really wants is to beat the wife. And, if he leaves his W for spinning, then the fight is over, spinning wins and she walks away. If that's the case, then it sounds like the BW is playing the same game and she is the one that's winning. MM is nothing but a pawn that no one really wants to begin with.

 

An interesting theory for sure. If it true, then the only real victim is the poor child. Three adults and no one can look beyond their own selfish needs and see what this is doing to that innocent child.

[whichwayisup]

I don't bash his wife for checking up on him, I bash her for hacking my account, and for contacting me. I don't contact her!

 

Then change your password again. Obviously the pw had something to do with her husband because she guessed it.

 

Oct 1st deadline is fine, but no final vacation.

 

Chances are, that vacation has already been booked and I highly doubt he is going to tell his wife and child, "Sorry, we can't go on holidays anymore, because if I go away with you all, my OW will leave me, so let's cancel the trip, k? Thanks, love ya!" Come on. HE may tell you he isn't going to go on that trip, but he IS going to go anyway, reguardless of how you feel.

[Shygirl15]

 

How pathetic.

[redfathom]

OP you think the wife is pathetic for staying with her H when she knows what he does with you. Yet she has more to fight for: a marriage and kids, probrably a home, accounts, etc. You have nothing with this man! That just makes your wanting to stay with him even more pathetic.

 

You think this is real, you're just getting played. Take control for your own actions and your own life and just walk away, if you can.

[2sure]

Spinning -

 

I cant help but notice you havent really said anything about how you keep going through all this because you are so in love with this man. In reading other threads by OW, right or wrong, the bottom line is love.

Even if the guy is being awful to both the W and the OW, sometimes love keeps them going.

 

But it sounds like both you and the wife are more motivated by a competition with each other than love for this man. He has cheated on his wife and you, yet still has both. The W and you have been aggressively honest with each other, while he somehow strings you both along.

 

You said earlier that he wouldnt throw you under the bus. ???? He has, repeatedly.

 

Is it possible that if you finally "win" this competition and get your man - you wont want him very long?

 

I'm sure the original post in this thread was just what you said - one of those crazy venting things we all do. It is obvious, regardless of your motives, that you have invested a lot in this. Its good to vent.

[Treasa]

Wow.

 

He won't leave this ugly, horrible, vindictive and greedy woman.

 

Why not???? He has a paragon of kindness and beauty waiting for him.

 

No kidding, right?

 

I used to weigh 270 pounds, spinningwheels. And parts of me were "saggy." And I was a beautiful person, just as I am now that I've lost over 120 pounds.

 

YOU, however, are one of the ugliest people I've ever seen on this board. You're being used, you're being irrational, and if this vacation is going to be a deal breaker, then LEAVE for God's sake! Stop taking out your anger on everyone else.

[iceis44]

You are the one in the half relationship with the MM, why do you not hold him responsible for this, He has not left, he will not leave, he has proven that.

 

Move on take control of your own life, Then count yourself blessed that you dont have to carry the weight of his marriage on your shoulders for the rest of your life.

 

Take acceptance for yourself! Grow the fruck up!

[iceis44]

Let me paraphrase your wordy letter.

 

"Pssst MM! Pick me! Pick me!

 

Hey wife - even if he picks you, I am going to ensure that you are miserable the rest of your life. Hell, even if he picks me, I am going to ensure that you are miserable for the rest of your life! YOU are a loser, wifey, and MM is the God of Love and makes me behave like a proud, vindictive and cruel witch. Bye."

that was halirous and RIGHT ON TARGET

[spinningwheels]

I just got back and read through the replies. 2sure, thank you for saying that I can vent here. I felt that this is the best place to get it out because I'm not saying it to anyone who knows me personally. You asked about my love for him....I love him deeply, however it is very hard for me to say that at this point. Too many things have happened between us and I am very cautious with him right now. When we started speaking again he promised to change and to move out Oct 1. I basically said I will believe that when I see it, but even then, I can't reassure him of anything, because he has left twice before. I told him that the only way we would have a shot is if we started at the begining again. So-yes, I do love him.

 

Whichway, my password had nothing to do with MM. She hacked it because she knew my secret question answer and was able to reset it. Question was pet's name...changed my secret question to one no one would ever figure out. But it took me quite awhile to figure out how she did it, so it happened several times. Also, this vacation has been booked forever...her whole family (brother, sisters, parents)go every year the same week. They drive there. He refused to go two years ago, and last year he only went a couple of days. So yes, he could not go, and they still will.

 

And for the posters who think I blame his wife for my pain--you are wrong. I blame him and myself. I think I said before that I feel bad for her. I needed to vent, and I did it here. I had a very bad couple of days and it came out here last night.

 

I really am not cold or cruel just scared, frustrated, angry.

 

I just can't wait for this to be put to rest once and for all.

 

Lunch was fine, beautiful day, sat on the outdoor patio of one of my favorite resturants, but nothing really discussed in depth. This is something that I will not compromise on.

[redfathom]

I really am not cold or cruel just scared, frustrated, angry.

 

I just can't wait for this to be put to rest once and for all.quote]

 

First, how do you think the wife feels, probrably just like you, except she has not control over this situation, she is the real victim (and the kids). Second, if you can't wait for this to be put at rest, then end it. Plain and simple. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. You're a fool. And you will be until you do something about it. Do you really see yourself having a meaningful relationship with this guy? Because for the last three years you haven't had a relationship at all you have mearly been a toy for his to amuse himself with and one day soon he is going to get bored with you (again).

[greengoddess]

If he made up his mind why October first? What is it he is waiting for? Till the kid is fully entrenched with homework? Till right before all the holidays? If he was going to leave the summer would have been the time to leave.

 

I never understood these "deadlines". They just seem like an easy string along to keep everyone happy. Something will come up before the first and the deadline will keep being pushed back till after the new year and then it will continue and continue. Gather your self respect and stop this.

 

Oh and if he left before this vaction then she could get away along with having lots of family support. Can he really leave after having a nice little family trip?

[OWoman]

Spin -

 

I understand that the point of the letter in you rOP was to vent. But what purpose would be served by sending it? As you yourself said, she merely hides her head in the sand when confronted with evidence. Why would yet more of the same provoke a different response - if, as you say, she's biding her time until all her ducks are in a row before she can consider leaving?

 

Surely, if your intention is for her to leave, and her reluctance to leave is logistical, the best strategy would be to assist with the logistics which would make it possible for her to leave? Is MM working towards helping her leave in this way? Is this something you could / would want to do?

 

I must confess it concerns me that you go to lunch - billed here in your earlier posts as being about discussing your ultimatum - yet you return with it not discussed, and appear quite OK with that. If it were really the dealbreaker you say it is, why was it so low on your priority list that you sat through a lunch whose agenda you'd understood - or presented here, at any rate - as being about that, without insisting that the issue be dealt with to your satisfaction?

 

This suggests to me that either your are not as determined on this deal breaker as you present - that you ARE in fact willing to compromise on that, just as you were willing to compromise away discussing it... or you donot feel you have the power in the R to stand up and demand that your issue be taken seriously and you get heard when you say you want something discussed. In which case, if you lack the power even to have something discussed to the depth you wish, what power would you hope to have to make your ultimatum stick? Is his ignoring your demands on this not already an indication that he's wiping the floor with your wishes?

 

Spin, I think you need to step away from this a little further and look at it coolly and objectively. It's not all adding up neatly. Somewhere, you are sidestepping the boulder and picking up the feather instead. But a feather won't serve you wll as a weapon of war.

[spinningwheels]

greengoddess I did tell him that going away on vacation and leaving a week later would not fly. He keeps saying it would.

 

We did discuss it round and round a couple of times today. He wants compromise. Wife and child go with her family this weekend, he stays with me until tuesday and then will drive himself there and stay until friday. Come back and stay with me for that weekend. I did that last year. I will not do it again. No Way! This is a dealbreaker for me. I know he thinks that I will change my mind, but I am much stronger after a six month break.

 

I am feeling alot better. Just feel like I am in a holding pattern and will know how it goes soon enough.

 

OWoman as far as helping her, we don't discuss it, expect for the mortgage which is her biggest concern. (I don't mean I discuss it with her, but with him, I am very familiar with the mortgage bus.)

[jj33]

greengoddess I did tell him that going away on vacation and leaving a week later would not fly. He keeps saying it would.

 

We did discuss it round and round a couple of times today. He wants compromise. Wife and child go with her family this weekend, he stays with me until tuesday and then will drive himself there and stay until friday. Come back and stay with me for that weekend. I did that last year. I will not do it again. No Way! This is a dealbreaker for me. I know he thinks that I will change my mind, but I am much stronger after a six month break.

 

I am feeling alot better. Just feel like I am in a holding pattern and will know how it goes soon enough.

 

OWoman as far as helping her, we don't discuss it, expect for the mortgage which is her biggest concern. (I don't mean I discuss it with her, but with him, I am very familiar with the mortgage bus.)

 

Im glad you are feeling stronger. But dont kid yourself the extent to which he is required to "help her" will not be up to you and MM. She will get alimony and child support. He may be able to manipulate her now but he cant manipulate a PA family court judge.

[spinningwheels]

jj, you misunderstood. He knows exactly how much he would have to pay. However he would like her to be able to keep the house, and she would want to too, that would require a refi to lower the monthly payments. It would have to be sold if they did not refi from a 15yr to a 30yr.

 

That is the extent of our talks about finances. I don't want to get into any conversations with him about it.

[jj33]

OK that makes sense.

[child_of_isis]

Who's burying their head in the sand now??

 

This man has no clue how much he will have to pay & won't know, until he gets in front of the judge. These things can drag on for years, especially if there is a pissed BS involved.

 

Truthfully, it sounds as if you avoid any discussions that he may find unpleasant.

 

Like OWoman said...you totally compromised on the talk today. You have given him the rest of the month (Oct 1st?)...he will use that time to slowly chip away your resolve & determination.

 

Watch for it. Gaslighters are good at this. I don't think you are strong enough to pull it off. Keep coming in here & it will help.

 

 

 

That is the extent of our talks about finances. I don't want to get into any conversations with him about it.

[spinningwheels]

I didn't give him until October 1st. That was his deadline. If he leaves for vacation on Saturday--I am done.

 

He spoke to a lawyer to find out what would be about normal support given that they both have an income. He knows he will be in a hard place.

 

I really don't even want get into thinking about him leaving, because, right now, I believe we will never speak after this weekend. There is no amount of pleading or reasoning that will allow me to swallow this vacation. He has heard what I have said, and I believe he takes me seriously, but, I don't know what will happen. I really am just trying to relax and enjoy the nice night outside with a book, wine and my laptop. I have told him not to call me again tonight.

[greengoddess]

greengoddess I did tell him that going away on vacation and leaving a week later would not fly. He keeps saying it would.

 

We did discuss it round and round a couple of times today. He wants compromise. Wife and child go with her family this weekend, he stays with me until tuesday and then will drive himself there and stay until friday. Come back and stay with me for that weekend. I did that last year. I will not do it again. No Way! This is a dealbreaker for me. I know he thinks that I will change my mind, but I am much stronger after a six month break.

 

I am feeling alot better. Just feel like I am in a holding pattern and will know how it goes soon enough.

 

OWoman as far as helping her, we don't discuss it, expect for the mortgage which is her biggest concern. (I don't mean I discuss it with her, but with him, I am very familiar with the mortgage bus.)

 

 

Oh yes what a perfect compromise. He continues to share you and bw. He tells bw he has some things he has to finish up at work before he can leave then he will join them. Total cakeeater and two very enabling women with one of them who knows exactly how badly he lies,

[me003]

Maybe I read this letter wrong and maybe you already answered this, but it seems like you are both in denial about him. She chooses to stay married , but he chooses to stay married two. When it comes to bill and morgages, it is so much easier to stay married even if it is not a happy situation.

 

 

If you are dating, then date. Why should this man leave. he has it good at both places, he is a wanted man, he can do wrong but not enough to get out of his comfort zone.

What if she sent you a letter of what and where they are doing things. She will get rid of him when she feels like it as you can see. Just leave the situation and stop torturing yourself with this 2nd best shared love.

 

Make you number 1 and keep it that way for ever.

good luck

[me003]

She has already contacted me several times.

 

She has told me personally that she will stay put until she has more money put away.

She just doesn't want him to be with me, or to have her marraige end unless it is on her terms.

 

 

This letter may sound mean, but I am venting here, I really don't think I will send it--it is a thought. Believe me I have vented to him for hours the past two days..

 

If she keeps calling you don't answer of change the phone number

She will keep him till SHE feels like it, so why send a letter????

Letter does not sound mean, just sad. You are the carpet. He may make it seem like you are not, but why can't he just leave, or move in with you even if he is not divorced????

 

Does she have him by the ball$?? what does she have over him??? Why is he choosing to go back?????