The Old Porno Argument!

[ladyintights]

The thing is, is that it didnt start out like this... there was always some problems but at the beginning we were just dating and I was supposed to move back to Los Angeles, it wasnt supposed to be serious... This is not my dream relationship trust me, I wish it could be different.. I dont want to change him as a person but everyone does need to grow up at some point, whether that be now or 15 years from now for him.. if he makes it that long only time will tell.

 

Whether or not I can stick it out that long HOPING that he matures and things change for the better is a pretty iffy one.. who knows.

 

I do not enjoy parenting him, I called him son the other day PURPOSLEY to imply that hes acting like a child and treating me like his mother.. he didnt like that much...BUT he did end up doing the dishes so that was good. lol

 

 

good grief, another woman looking to "change her man". accept him or move on. last thing he needs is a nagging mother figure he'll learn to resent to the uttermost potential before they even hit the aisle. this is a good preview for him as to how horrid your lives might one day be if married! GOOD LUCK TO HIM!!!

[Milan721]

You know, there are many sides to this arguement and reading the responses of those dead set against porn has been an interesting eye-opener for me. But this idea that the average guy that looks at porn is compelled to pursue ever-increasing levels of depravity is nonsense. There is no logic behind the idea that one day you're looking at the Playboy centerfold and then six months later you find yourself online looking for snuff films with 8-year olds. So the idea that her H will be "whacking off to kiddie porn" doesn't make sense...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Sorry, I didn't intend to sound like all guys who watch porn watch kiddie porn. I was referring to what the OP said in her original post about her SO sneaking off to watch what appeared to be "13 or 14 year old girls in pigtails". And if her SO has an actual porn addiction, which it seems like he does, then I think the increasing usage and hiding it does make sense.

[Jersey Shortie]

You know, there are many sides to this arguement and reading the responses of those dead set against porn has been an interesting eye-opener for me. But this idea that the average guy that looks at porn is compelled to pursue ever-increasing levels of depravity is nonsense. There is no logic behind the idea that one day you're looking at the Playboy centerfold and then six months later you find yourself online looking for snuff films with 8-year olds. So the idea that her H will be "whacking off to kiddie porn" doesn't make sense...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I'd agree that looking at porn doesn't necessarily mean a man is going to look at child porn. But you are making and extreme case with the idea that all men look at playboy playmates and no other kind of porn inbetween. That isn't logical Mr. Lucky.

 

It's been proven that porn does esculate to a certain amount of depravity for many of the viewers and even the pornstars themselves. It's one of the reasons that porn becomes more hardcore over time. If most men were just happy with Playboy centerfolds, that's all that would be out there. Even porn directors agree and say that they need to come up with more outlandish things to keep the same interest. For most women in porn, they start off with something simple, such as lesbianism or straight masturbation, next they are giving blow jobs, then having actual intercourse, then having anal, then having double penteration....and so on. For most of the women that come in and out of porn, ther "career" lasts 6months-year. That has tell you something about the industry. Some of the porn out there is pretty degrading and depraved. And alot of men enjoy it. It doesn't have to be kiddy porn or snuff porn to be damanging and depraved.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's been proven that porn does esculate to a certain amount of depravity for many of the viewers and even the pornstars themselves.

Proven when, where and by whom ??? Jersey, you have a habit of stating your opinion as though it were a universally agreed upon conclusion. You are a literate and committed advocate for your position, but continually posting things without qualifiers costs you credibility. JMHO ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[annieo]

I think Jersey might have a point. People do become desensitized to certain types of stimulation, and need more/different images to get the original thrill.

It's true for drugs and alcohol, might be true for porn as well.

 

Not saying that necessarily means snuff/kids/bestiality/fill in the blank with whatever you consider to be sick. Just that you start getting off to cute girls with their clothes off, and eventually that gets boring. You need more.

 

And I am not anti-porn, but I do understand how it might not be the healthiest thing to be looking at for hours a day. Just like I don't start off my day with a glass of merlot.

[Jersey Shortie]

All the evidence you need is right infront of you. The fact that men use to look at National Geographic and were happy with that. Then it was Playboy Playmates, now there is alot more hardcore stuff out there then there ever was before. You would have to live in a cave not to see that porn has esculated. Both in amount avalible to the public, the amount of time men spend on it and the type that is out there. Even in our culture. Look at how much more open porn is. It use to be something that was looked at in some basement. Now it's something high school kids wear proudly on their shirts "pornstar". If you think the only thing about porn that as esculated is the amount, and not the amount of hardcore porn that is out there, you are only kidding yourself.

[Mr. Lucky]

Not saying that necessarily means snuff/kids/bestiality/fill in the blank with whatever you consider to be sick. Just that you start getting off to cute girls with their clothes off, and eventually that gets boring. You need more.

You do ?

 

If it's true for drugs and alcohol, why aren't we a nation of alcoholics and drug addicts? Now the need for more may be true for drug addicts and alcoholics, just as that slippery slope may exist for porn addicts. But you're talking about a small percentage of adults that use any of those three grown-up pleasures...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lovelybird]

Due to porn's nature, the small percentage will become big, today's society is a prove. Porn started a very small group, and viewed as lowlife. but now it is commonly accepted, if anyone doesn't watch porn, would be labelled as "abnormal" or "insecure", can you imagine that? a decent and having good self-control person is labelled as "non-grown up"

 

Ok the new concept for grown up is

no self control

who care about what women feel

watch porn

drink and drug

sleep around

faithless

[EnigmasMuse]

You do ?

 

If it's true for drugs and alcohol, why aren't we a nation of alcoholics and drug addicts? Now the need for more may be true for drug addicts and alcoholics, just as that slippery slope may exist for porn addicts. But you're talking about a small percentage of adults that use any of those three grown-up pleasures...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I may be wrong, but I imgaine there are alot more drug addicts, and alcoholics than we know about. Just as there are probably alot more porn users (of all kinds of porn) than we know about.

[Mr. Lucky]

I may be wrong, but I imgaine there are alot more drug addicts, and alcoholics than we know about. Just as there are probably alot more porn users (of all kinds of porn) than we know about.

Possibly true, but still doesn't support this:

It's been proven that porn does esculate to a certain amount of depravity for many of the viewers

The average guy that looks at porn is not sucked into a vortex of ever increasing depravity...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

The average guy that looks at porn is not sucked into a vortex of ever increasing depravity...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Do you talk to other men about what you view and what they view?

[luvstarved]

Certain men just want to live a simple life, do what they want, and get roundly applauded for it. Showing up at home every night and just looking at impersonal porn, etc should be commended, as it is nothing at all like going out and f**king every willing woman they can find...which if it weren't for WIVES, is exactly what they would be doing.

 

WIVES do not seem to adequately appreciate the sacrifice that such men make by giving up all these women..."the honeymoon is over, baby! I'd rather f**k ANYONE but you, so how can you be so ungrateful that I don't??? It's just IMAGES, baby. I really love you - you are the one that I want to raise my children, manage my domestic affairs, and fart freely in front of - I am COMFORTABLE with you!!! WHAT is the problem??"

 

Women reserve their applause for something they actually regard as warranting it.

 

This creates a chasm in which these men, in order to get the ego strokes they need, are expected to do more work than they are up for.

 

A solution exists with porn/strippers, etc. For a few lousy bucks, they can be stud man wonderful. They can be this and not have to give a darn thing emotionally or otherwise (just a few bucks, like going to McDonald's). They can bust a nut without the hassle.

 

And if they all agree that there is something wrong with women that do not accept this quite natural evolutionary reality, then women are left with no real argument except for that their insecurity is THEIR own nature.

 

Crazymaking at its finest. Especially since a woman's "natural insecurity" is a "problem" to be dealt with while a man's "natural promiscuity" is a "feature" to be accepted.

 

These men need wives more than they want wives.

Most women want husbands more than they need husbands.

 

This does in some sense give women an upper hand, but it's an empty one. So what if he heavily depends on her? She still wants to be wanted, and that alas cannot be forced.

 

I am not talking about the guy who jerks off when his girlfriend is out of town. I am talking about the growing population of husbands who detach from their boring demanding wives when they expect too damn much from them, like an effort.

 

Just food for thought.

[Jersey Shortie]

Ironically, I think men like to feel needed. God sure loves to keep us on our toes.

 

Actually, there is unfortunetly some truth to your post. Men want us to look at them with honor and respect and admire them, yet they want these things without having to work for them. And they actually get mad when they don't even live up to the expectations they want us to see in them.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am talking about the growing population of husbands who detach from their boring demanding wives when they expect too damn much from them, like an effort.

 

Just food for thought.

It's been said many times by many reasonable posters, myself included, that any man that ignores his wife's or GF's sexual needs while he indulges in porn is a chump, and a foolish chump at that. Beyond that, there is (IMHO) something seriously wrong with anyone that regularly chooses a flat screen over a warm and willing partner. Do we all agree on that ?

 

But that's a different POV than the extremist position pushed forward here on a regular basis that any guy that looks at porn anytime is a depraved, sleazy, dis-honorable, woman-hating letch.

 

I am not talking about the guy who jerks off when his girlfriend is out of town.

 

Jersey, how about the above guy with the absent girlfriend?

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

 

WIVES do not seem to adequately appreciate the sacrifice that such men make by giving up all these women..."the honeymoon is over, baby! I'd rather f**k ANYONE but you, so how can you be so ungrateful that I don't??? It's just IMAGES, baby. I really love you - you are the one that I want to raise my children, manage my domestic affairs, and fart freely in front of - I am COMFORTABLE with you!!! WHAT is the problem??"

 

 

 

All of the things you mentioned, child rearing,cooking,cleaning are domestic services.Activities that can be performed by any housekeeper, of course housekeepers expect to be given things like salaries,scheduled vacations,regular days off.

 

When a man tells me he'd rather "f**k ANYONE but me" and that I should be "grateful" that he doesn't, I'm more than happy to show him the door.

[luvstarved]

All of the things you mentioned, child rearing,cooking,cleaning are domestic services.Activities that can be performed by any housekeeper, of course housekeepers expect to be given things like salaries,scheduled vacations,regular days off.

 

When a man tells me he'd rather "f**k ANYONE but me" and that I should be "grateful" that he doesn't, I'm more than happy to show him the door.

 

Just to clarify, my H did NOT say that to me...it was just a sample expression of such a man's apparent attitude. My H does exhibit this to some extent...sometimes not, sometimes so (I can be similarly hot and cold about him so I can understand it)...but I have seen it in men over and over through the years...and I think there is a little of it in most men...at least to the extent that if they are honest, in a LTR, they do find new and strange women more sexually enticing than their wives.

 

What differentiates one type of man from another is how they handle this situation...my vote goes to the guy who makes a concerted effort to redirect his energy back to his spouse and work on it there. I was

suggesting that the guys who take the porn/strip club routes are taking the paths of least effort/least resistance.

[Jersey Shortie]

Beyond that, there is (IMHO) something seriously wrong with anyone that regularly chooses a flat screen over a warm and willing partner. Do we all agree on that ?

 

It's okay though to choose a flat screen sometimes over a warm and willing parnter..ya know..to mix it up and get that variety men need to sustain their relationships with a real partner.Right?

 

But that's a different POV than the extremist position pushed forward here on a regular basis that any guy that looks at porn anytime is a depraved, sleazy, dis-honorable, woman-hating letch.

 

You're right, looking at porn is pure, sincere, respectful of women, really shows how men love women, is what an honorable man is about and exemplifies all the good qualities in a man and in a woman as it protrays her hopes and dreams as an intelligent human beings that deserves more in life then to be a receptical.

 

 

Jersey, how about the above guy with the absent girlfriend?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

What does my question to you have to do with one guy with an absent girlfriend. I asked you directly, do you talk to other men about your porn habits and their porn habits? Do men tell other men what they like to view? This is a simple question.

[Lovelybird]

It's been said many times by many reasonable posters, myself included, that any man that ignores his wife's or GF's sexual needs while he indulges in porn is a chump, and a foolish chump at that. Beyond that, there is (IMHO) something seriously wrong with anyone that regularly chooses a flat screen over a warm and willing partner. Do we all agree on that ?

 

But that's a different POV than the extremist position pushed forward here on a regular basis that any guy that looks at porn anytime is a depraved, sleazy, dis-honorable, woman-hating letch.

 

 

 

Jersey, how about the above guy with the absent girlfriend?

 

Mr. Lucky

According to the degree you defending porn, you are lightly addicted

 

Ok, after you watch porn

1) Do you increase respect for women? or more despise for them, and feel having more control over women?

 

many men can get satisfaction from porn and get sense of control over women when they in reality may suffer being emasculated, or didn't fully develop their manhood

 

But fantacy is fantacy, false sense of controlling cannot sooth the pain in reality. nor can make you feel like a real man, it only backfires

 

True manhood is a man loves his wife as himself, respect her and care her as best as he can. Anything goes against this principle will decrease his sense of manhood, subconsciencely. A man learns from God can find his true manhood

 

2) Do you feel connected or disconnected and more lonely? I believe it is the later.

 

 

3) Do you feel you are proud of yourself?

 

If porn doesn't benefit you nor your wife in the end of day, why porn? Does really instant satisfaction worth the price of long term wellfare of yourself and your wife?

[Lovelybird]

I believe human soul is a bottomless container. If the container is empty or filled with boredom, pain, then the soul will seek something more to fill it in order not to feel the boredom and pain, so it fill with porn that can put some excitement in it, but soul is infinite, that means the seeking porn will become infinite, never satisfied, and that's why human is so easily become addicted to substance, because substance is finite and soul wants more. Only when soul found the infinite (living water that Jesus provide) to fill it, it can be satisfied and happy.

[Jersey Shortie]

According to the degree you defending porn, you are lightly addicted.

 

Lovelybird, that is an unfair statement for you to make about another poster and an unneccsary one.

[norajane]

It's okay though to choose a flat screen sometimes over a warm and willing parnter..ya know..to mix it up and get that variety men need to sustain their relationships with a real partner.Right?

 

You're right, looking at porn is pure, sincere, respectful of women, really shows how men love women, is what an honorable man is about and exemplifies all the good qualities in a man and in a woman as it protrays her hopes and dreams as an intelligent human beings that deserves more in life then to be a receptical.

 

I guess I don't think of porn as anything but what a guy uses to masturbate. And it doesn't bother me that a guy would want to see his masturbation fantasies in action and color if he could. And when I think of some of my masturbation fantasies, I can hardly fault men for having equally unspeakable primal erotic turn-ons, and for wanting to view them since they're easily available...kids in a candy store...I don't think less of men for that.

 

It would, however, bother me very much if my guy stuffed himself so full of Everlasting Gobstoppers that he couldn't share wine and dinner and teasing and flirting and sex with me. If a man finds himself giving that up for porn, he needs to unplug the computer and plug back into his life. Whatever the reason is that he's turning to it, he's escaping some very real stuff in his life that he needs to be dealing with instead.

 

It does bother me that porn has become so prevalent. I agree with you, Jersey, there's so much porn out there and so many people watch it, that it must have an influence on society. I know they've started doing research in this area, much like they started doing research on the effects of violence on television 25 years ago. Have you looked into any research regarding the effects of porn?

[Lovelybird]

good point ! effects of porn, I looked some, all of them are negative

 

such as

 

Porn escalate

Isolation of self

act some hurtful stuff in real life

ruined marriage and relationships

some even involves sex slave traffics, many are children. these are porn networks, who use human like that. so watching porn is equal to support these vampires

 

Yesterday in Opprah had a discussion: one man has several wives, this is real in USA ! I wonder how many men want this life style

[Jersey Shortie]

It does bother me that porn has become so prevalent. I agree with you, Jersey, there's so much porn out there and so many people watch it, that it must have an influence on society. I know they've started doing research in this area, much like they started doing research on the effects of violence on television 25 years ago. Have you looked into any research regarding the effects of porn?

 

I wonder if it ever bothers men, but I don't think it does.I've read alot of articles about it. Some pro-porn, some showing negative effects of porn. There was a point I thought that reading more on it would help me understand men better but it actually made me more resentful of why they do the things they do when it comes to porn. Some studies show that after directly viewing porn, a man has more negative opinions about his own mate. Who can blame him right? It's not like the reality of what men have is more speical then their supped up fantasy of what they really want. It would only make sense that they had more negative opinions about their average normal woman after seeing some super fantastic eager to please sex bunny do all kinds of fun and crazy stuff. But that's only one example. If you think of porn in terms of it being like advertising, you can't logcially think people aren't effected by seeing porn on a regular basis. Advertising works for a reason. Porn is advertising sex. Porn has influenced us more then I think people care to admit to.

 

I do question if young men today, or even older men know the difference anymore between eating gobstoppers and having Godiva. We make the point that real sex is "better", It's the Godvia. But on some level being able to have gobstoppers is also sometimes better. Otherwise people wouldn't want it, even sometimes. I think alot of men are learning their moves from porn too. And I think alot of girls are learning how to act because of porn. And it becomre more of a circus performance then real sex. But men don't want real sex. They want some super hyped up sexual fantasy. I don't blame men for being turned on by porn. But I don't think men use any self control anymore.

[Lovelybird]

In the present investigation, we hypothesized that increasing opportunities for viewer-controlled manipulation of erotic stimulus elements would result in increasing negative effects on men's attitudes toward women, rape myth acceptance, and aggressive behavior toward women. We reasoned that the more interactive control men are given over female sexuality in the interactive erotic stimuli under study, the more men should be persuaded that females are easily manipulated and easily controlled. These perceptions are expected to contribute to negative attitudes concerning women's rights, roles, and responsibilities in society, to acceptance of rape myths which hold that women are compliant and willing participants in sexual assault, and to increased male willingness to engage in aggressive behavior against a female confederate who has annoyed them

not long ago a poster here who love porn openly advised a man whose girlfriend is cold during sex to rape her, and said it is just playing

[Mr. Lucky]

According to the degree you defending porn, you are lightly addicted

Lovelybird, that is an unfair statement for you to make about another poster and an unneccsary one.

Hey, at least she thinks I'm only lightly addicted . Compared to some of the other things regularly implied here, I'm getting off easy .

I asked you directly, do you talk to other men about your porn habits and their porn habits? Do men tell other men what they like to view? This is a simple question.

First off, I don't have a porn "habit" as that strikes me as one of those "When did you stop beating your wife?" questions. But I'm going to try and answer what I think is the intent of your question. I can recall three times in the last year when porn has been a topic in my circle of friends. Once, one of my friends that seems to have a large collection touted us on some movie and actress that he had just seen (both names escape me). He went into some detail on this girl's sword-swallowing ability. The second occasion, I had another friend send me a series of pornagraphic "joke-of-the-day" emails. I initially deleted them without reading them for fear of any accompanying virus or malware attached. I finally blocked his email address when he didn't follow-up on my request to stop forwarding them. Third time, someone mentioned a link to a site to me where couples post soft and hardcore pictures of themselves online. I checked it out, didn't find it that compelling (if I want wrinkles and bald spots, I'll just look in the mirror ) and haven't looked at it since.

 

Satisfied ?

 

Mr. Lucky