How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[GreenEyedLady]

You know what I think?

 

She's blaming you because it's easier than blaming herself.

 

Sometimes M's fail. For different reasons. I think incompatibility is the biggest reason. But we're so wired to think that M is the end all be all.

 

When this is over you'll see it more clearly. Because when people really love each other and are committed to each other, then a bump in the road is just bump.

 

Its not your fault. I don't even think it's hers. It's probably just that you two are mismatched.

 

Try not to take so much of the blame. You are a good man.

 

GEL

[Gunny376]

In part marriage is about "completing your childhood" tranisitioning from the role you played as your parents child to self actualizing into a full person.

[SingleDad]

There was another incident I'll share:

 

We had an argument one night in November (at time when I was stressed out to the max at work - W filed for D at end of January). W wanted me to move my weight set in the basement so she could make a third playroom of for daughter (one on each floor. I didn't want to move it... later I measured it - and found no other place it could be moved to. W kept nagging. In a huff, I started to take the weight set apart. W argued with me to stop... I yelled out "what is the purpose of my life !!!" (Meaning I am not allowed to do anything myself and have to follow orders at work and at home and never can do anything I want.) It was about 11 pm - I struggled to have my W let go of me and stormed out of the house and left in the car. After about an hour driving around - I realized I needed to sleep somewhere - I went to my mom's house, never telling my W where I was until about noon the next day.

 

When I did call, my W thought that what I had said instead was a threatened suicide and said she was upset all night and way trying to contact me... (though there were no calls on my cell phone, she did not call my mother nor contact the police.) btw - She used this as one of the causes for divorce action. She also wanted me to go for counceling - I did go to the person she found for me twice (he said I mihgt be mildly depressed but I did not need any anti-depressants) - btw - W also used that I need psychiatric help as a cause for divorce. I admittedly was distraught and depressed over our marriage - but wouldn't kill myself over it. (as a background my father did commit suicide from his depression and alcoholism) My W did attempt suicide when she was 15... and I think the fear over having do deal with anything like that again that was too much for her.

 

So that is another element of the conflict in our relationship leading up to the separation.

[Darth Vader]

Your STBX-Hex is just grasping at straws, there's no way she'll ever admit to anything being her fault! When you do finally Divorce the witch, you'll see just how controling and manipulative she is/was!

 

Have you found out who her boyfriend is?

[SingleDad]

Vader - you are right - she will never ever admit to having any part of the decline of our marriage.

 

Still do not know if OM. Not looking into it. If she is great - she'll just go bouncing from one man to another and never realize that the problem is her... While I am learning more about what happened, the causes, why it happened and learn how to prevent it from happening in the future - with her or someone else.

 

Maybe she will find things about me that weren't there before - improvements - maybe she won't.

 

It's not about her... but I am still saddened that my daughter is in the middle of this.

[SingleDad]

I had a fun time with my D2.5 at the Labor Day Fair on Monday after not seeing her for a week. Now I do not see her again until Friday night - this sucks !!!

 

I was upstairs when W dropped off my D on Monday. W didn't leave immediately as she usually does. I offered her a beverage. She declined, but sat down and was petting her dogs. Then wanted to pluck the hair out of the dog's ears to prevent ear infection - I said sure. I was dancing with my D2.5. I offered if W wanted some of D's clothes and she took them. W kept mentioning the new stuff I had picked up - "oh, did you get that at a garage sale." After a few times I said "don't worry about where I got it". Her response was "Oh from your girlfriend... It's ok if you are dating". I did not respond after a couple times questioning. (p.s. I have not gone on a single date).

 

It is nice that my W did hang around for a good 30 minutes - rather than avoid me completely... and I remained friendly the whole time and played with my D.

 

Is W asking about whether I am dating a positive thing ?

 

W called later about some community swim lessons for D - said maybe we could do it (together or alternating depending on our scheduled day) - I'm not sure which she meant. Said we could talk about it later.

 

I am getting tired of this being a part-time parent 3 days a week, it's not what I wanted when I started a family - I would much rather want to be full-time parent. I think my W actually prefers it, because it gives her 3 days off every week - I was hoping that she would feel the same way as me and would give her reason to want to work things out - I guess not.

[badbrit]

SD how have been the last week or so since i sent you a long message here? Have you said anything or just acted cool and consistant for once?

[SingleDad]

W just called asking me to help her invest the money I gave her from our marital settlement - wants to invest it as an emergency fund. Also said I'll get the tax benefit of her buying her house (as we will file a joint return in 2008). Apparently she closed on her house, probably today, and has some cash left over from the cash I gave her from our marriage settlement.

 

Wow - talk about being in a rough spot - helping her invest "my former" money for her long term goals !!!!

I helped her and then thanked her for hanging out yesterday - that I enjoyed spending some time with her.

She was appreciative...

 

I think I have taken some great strides... without this forum and the books - I would have told her to F_ck herself.

 

But I'll tell you, helping her live her own independent life (while depending on me of sorts) is a very challenging thing to do - when all I want is my family back together - and I can't even tell her that.

[SingleDad]

SD how have been the last week or so since i sent you a long message here? Have you said anything or just acted cool and consistant for once?

 

Badbrit - I think I have learned from my mistakes and from posters like you that I need to be cool and consistent - like my recent posts indicate

[Owl]

I'm of two minds on this...

 

If you want to reconcile, then you shouldn't be investing your time and effort supporting her efforts to seperate and move on.

 

Balanced against...

 

The love bank deposits that helping her solve her problems gains you.

 

You'll have to decide for yourself what's in YOUR best interests...

[badbrit]

I disagree owl, stopping legal seperation (including not helping or trying to stop it) does not stop the emotional seperation so let her carry on as she is and continue to show strength, coolness even under fire and stay as you are being.

 

My opinion? I think she is relaxing around you as seems to always happen when you do take the pressure off. I said this before in my long post and it is being shown again. I cannot say for certain that it will lead to where you want or if she has the capacity inside her to look at you that way anymore. However you are getting results from being this way and she did not just hang around for no reason.

 

I suspect she was trying to sense why you have changed, was another woman moving into her patch etc. You do not ask that if you are not feeling a tinge inside. I think it all points towards her still having feelings but your actions before frankly only serving to quash them further.

 

Release the pressure for longer, never ever raise to any arguing, do not say anything about love, hopes for future with her, missing her etc just get on with life and act cool, even evasive about what you are doing and if you are dating and lets see what happens.

 

Re-evaluate it every week or two ok? Just keep going and see what happens next ok. Please do it, just stay cool no matter what, even if she dates and tells you. It may be a test but stay strong.

[Owl]

There's a difference between supporting her, and supporting her efforts to divorce.

 

That's the source of my view.

 

Support HER all day long...but don't do anything to support the divorce.

[SingleDad]

BadBrit and Owl - I agree with both of you.

 

The legal separation was final on June 12 - so there is nothing that can be done or undone with the past - only the future.

 

I like the comment to support W, but not support a divorce. I can support my W and try to build her love bank. And I will not support a Divorce... I have to be sure my words and behavior also do not support any justification for W to want a divorce as well.

 

Thanks

[badbrit]

I have to be sure my words and behavior also do not support any justification for W to want a divorce as well.

 

Thanks

 

 

incorrect, supporting it can make her second guess if she is doing the right thing, happens a lot. A nice dose of cold water over her desire to divorce. Ju-juitsu man. Go with the flow.

[TrustInYourself]

BadBrit and Owl - I agree with both of you.

 

The legal separation was final on June 12 - so there is nothing that can be done or undone with the past - only the future.

 

I like the comment to support W, but not support a divorce. I can support my W and try to build her love bank. And I will not support a Divorce... I have to be sure my words and behavior also do not support any justification for W to want a divorce as well.

 

Thanks

 

Support the divorce and she'll question it. She'll question everything you support. She will resist if you press and press if you resist.

 

As long as you play it cool, she'll question things. The more positive you are the more she will question her decision. The more fun and happy you are or seem to be, the more unhappy and sad your wife will be without you. That is the equation of separation.

[SingleDad]

Support the divorce and she'll question it. She'll question everything you support. She will resist if you press and press if you resist.

 

As long as you play it cool, she'll question things. The more positive you are the more she will question her decision. The more fun and happy you are or seem to be, the more unhappy and sad your wife will be without you. That is the equation of separation.

 

Inside the mind of a WAW... so twisted that it all makes sense.

[TrustInYourself]

It's not twisted. There is a method to the madness.

[Darth Vader]

I had a fun time with my D2.5 at the Labor Day Fair on Monday after not seeing her for a week. Now I do not see her again until Friday night - this sucks !!!

 

I was upstairs when W dropped off my D on Monday. W didn't leave immediately as she usually does. I offered her a beverage. She declined, but sat down and was petting her dogs. Then wanted to pluck the hair out of the dog's ears to prevent ear infection - I said sure. I was dancing with my D2.5. I offered if W wanted some of D's clothes and she took them. W kept mentioning the new stuff I had picked up - "oh, did you get that at a garage sale." After a few times I said "don't worry about where I got it". Her response was "Oh from your girlfriend... It's ok if you are dating". I did not respond after a couple times questioning. (p.s. I have not gone on a single date).

 

It is nice that my W did hang around for a good 30 minutes - rather than avoid me completely... and I remained friendly the whole time and played with my D.

 

Is W asking about whether I am dating a positive thing ?

 

W called later about some community swim lessons for D - said maybe we could do it (together or alternating depending on our scheduled day) - I'm not sure which she meant. Said we could talk about it later.

 

I am getting tired of this being a part-time parent 3 days a week, it's not what I wanted when I started a family - I would much rather want to be full-time parent. I think my W actually prefers it, because it gives her 3 days off every week - I was hoping that she would feel the same way as me and would give her reason to want to work things out - I guess not.

 

 

Your STBXW is asking too many questions! I have a feeling that she's making sure that you're still on the back burner while she's out having her fun! Keep MOVIN ON!!!!!! You don't have to answer her questions, just keep things about your Daughter!

[LostHusband]

I'm watching your situation with intense interest, SD, as I am going through something very similar. I'm with you in that I really hope that I can reconcile with my wife and get my family back together. I have had the same setbacks, it is so hard when I have to see her every single day because of our work schedules and our kids. She's now ready to start dating and has already met a guy at work who she likes and he likes her (he is currently living with someone but he wants to kick her out - so they are both rebounding, lots of luck there!). I have come to the conclusion that I have no other choice than to just let her go, because I don't think I have a chance to get her back unless I have completely moved on, but then it may be too late...

[TrustInYourself]

Is your separation arrangement open to date other people? You should ask her that. If so, why are you not exploiting that oppurtunity to grow socially? I'm not telling you to move on. I'm suggesting you learn how to communicate and be an attractive individual socially.

 

What bothers me the most is your opinions that accepting her decision for a divorce/separation is the end of your marriage. That's not true. Only through acceptance is there even a chance of rebuilding your marriage.

 

I think if your marriage doesn't work out, you still win, because you are taking steps to move forward to your new life.

 

Take cta for example. His wife decided to leave and he did not hesitate to throw her out. He filed immediately. He pressed forward with his own life and sure, short term his wife left. After the consequence of her actions set in,though, she asked for another chance.

 

Are you not looking to be in that position? What does it matter if the actions you take are not the ones you want to take? Aren't the results of those actions exactly what you both are hoping for?

 

It's damn near impossible to give advice to win back your spouse. It's very easy to give advice to win back your life and yourself.

[SingleDad]

Is your separation arrangement open to date other people? You should ask her that. If so, why are you not exploiting that oppurtunity to grow socially? I'm not telling you to move on. I'm suggesting you learn how to communicate and be an attractive individual socially.

 

What bothers me the most is your opinions that accepting her decision for a divorce/separation is the end of your marriage. That's not true. Only through acceptance is there even a chance of rebuilding your marriage.

 

I think if your marriage doesn't work out, you still win, because you are taking steps to move forward to your new life.

 

Take cta for example. His wife decided to leave and he did not hesitate to throw her out. He filed immediately. He pressed forward with his own life and sure, short term his wife left. After the consequence of her actions set in,though, she asked for another chance.

 

Are you not looking to be in that position? What does it matter if the actions you take are not the ones you want to take? Aren't the results of those actions exactly what you both are hoping for?

 

It's damn near impossible to give advice to win back your spouse. It's very easy to give advice to win back your life and yourself.

 

The separation agreement does not mention seeing other people. But my W did specifically ask the mediator if it would be adultery. The mediator said it's fine, you just can't remarry. I told the mediator I don't know about the law, but If you are still legally married then it is adultery by definition.

 

TIY - I do not understand your statement "What bothers me the most is your opinions that accepting her decision for a divorce/separation is the end of your marriage."

 

I understand that my W wants a divorce and she can get it on June 13, 2009 without anything me doing or not doing anything.

 

Are you saying that it is not the end of my marriage ?

 

All I understand is that I can let it destroy me, or I can GAL - get a new life - so that when she does divorce me it won't be as bad because I would have already moved on without her - or so the logic goes.

 

"only through accceptance is there even a chance of rebuilding your marriage" - I accept what W has done, I understand why she has done it, I am no longer agruing with her for fighting or clinging on to our marriage. Now, I am merely trying to be friendly and civil toward her so that we can interact, have her feel more comfortable around me, safe that I am not going to talk about the marriage - so that maybe she will spend more time with me and our daughter.

 

Are you saying I should be pushing W away - tell her I am done with you ? I don't want you in my life - I wish you would just go and live your own life and don't talk to me ever again ? i.e. throw her out... I do not understand that logic... I am sure if I did that she would be gone for sure... she is too strong willed of a woman - she would never come crawling back to me if I did that to her. That kind of reverse psychology would not work with her... she is not the tpye of person who you can treat like dirt and she will come back to me.

 

Yet I have to throw away the old marriage - that marriage wasn't working anyway.

 

And I've learned that me telling her I love her and being clingy, etc will never work either - not until or if she ever comes back to me and expresses her love to me.

 

I need to start just being friendly... and if she ever opens up to me again... I need to be there for her and be understanding and really listen to her. That is the main thing she always wanted.

 

I guess I am learning to accept that the marriage is over... what I am having the hardest time with is that as a result of that - I am only allowed to see and be with my daughter 3 days a week for the next 20 years - that is just not the way I ever intended or imagined.

 

I do not even care if either or us sees other people - I just to not like how this situation has my daughter taken away from me without being able to do anything about it. Of course, It would be nice to co-parent our daughter.

[TrustInYourself]

The separation agreement does not mention seeing other people. But my W did specifically ask the mediator if it would be adultery. The mediator said it's fine, you just can't remarry. I told the mediator I don't know about the law, but If you are still legally married then it is adultery by definition.

 

TIY - I do not understand your statement "What bothers me the most is your opinions that accepting her decision for a divorce/separation is the end of your marriage."

 

I understand that my W wants a divorce and she can get it on June 13, 2009 without anything me doing or not doing anything.

 

Are you saying that it is not the end of my marriage ?

 

All I understand is that I can let it destroy me, or I can GAL - get a new life - so that when she does divorce me it won't be as bad because I would have already moved on without her - or so the logic goes.

 

"only through accceptance is there even a chance of rebuilding your marriage" - I accept what W has done, I understand why she has done it, I am no longer agruing with her for fighting or clinging on to our marriage. Now, I am merely trying to be friendly and civil toward her so that we can interact, have her feel more comfortable around me, safe that I am not going to talk about the marriage - so that maybe she will spend more time with me and our daughter.

 

Are you saying I should be pushing W away - tell her I am done with you ? I don't want you in my life - I wish you would just go and live your own life and don't talk to me ever again ? i.e. throw her out... I do not understand that logic... I am sure if I did that she would be gone for sure... she is too strong willed of a woman - she would never come crawling back to me if I did that to her. That kind of reverse psychology would not work with her... she is not the tpye of person who you can treat like dirt and she will come back to me.

 

Yet I have to throw away the old marriage - that marriage wasn't working anyway.

 

And I've learned that me telling her I love her and being clingy, etc will never work either - not until or if she ever comes back to me and expresses her love to me.

 

I need to start just being friendly... and if she ever opens up to me again... I need to be there for her and be understanding and really listen to her. That is the main thing she always wanted.

 

I guess I am learning to accept that the marriage is over... what I am having the hardest time with is that as a result of that - I am only allowed to see and be with my daughter 3 days a week for the next 20 years - that is just not the way I ever intended or imagined.

 

I do not even care if either or us sees other people - I just to not like how this situation has my daughter taken away from me without being able to do anything about it. Of course, It would be nice to co-parent our daughter.

I'm confused by what you really want? Do you want her back? That last statement says you just want a woman to help you parent your child. Forgive me if I've misunderstood.

 

So she's seeing someone else, most likely. I hate to sound like a broken record, but yeah, you should be throwing her out. That's exactly what you should be doing. Not because you want to, but because that's what she deserves. You deserve a woman who wants to be with you. It's pretty easy to determine if she wants to be with you if you shut the door in her face. She'll knock.

 

There's not going to be any knocking if you keep the door open. She'll think you'll be there forever, which most likely you will be. Just not as her husband. She's taking you for granted. You are nothing but a tool for her to use, to pickup and put down whenever she feels like it. You are enabling her behavior. You deserve to be walked all over, if you don't stand up for yourself.

 

You seem to think you are married still. You're not. Different rules apply to seperation. How do you make a love deposit in separation? Not by being nice. That time came and went. Now it's time to play hardball. What does that mean? Moving on. GAL as you put it. Which you are doing.

[SingleDad]

I still to not see it that way.

 

I am trying to GAL, I am trying to move on, I am not expecting anything from my W.

 

But I am having trouble agreeing with the "Kick her out of my life" "or close the door on her"... If I treat her poorly or mean or hang up on her calls, then I know she will not knock - I guarantee it.

 

And with our daughter - If I treat W poorly and do not communicate with her about our daughter - I know I will risk my W taking me to court to take away custody.

 

W will also not be accomodating as far as re-arranging visitation schedules with our daughter... If I am not nice to her, then when a situation comes up where I have to work late - I will lose my visitation day, rather than W agreeing to switch it to another day.

 

I think the situation is quite a bit different when a child is involved.

 

Besides I tried going through the uncooperative, kick her to the curb phase and W made it miserable for me.

[Owl]

The separation agreement does not mention seeing other people. But my W did specifically ask the mediator if it would be adultery. The mediator said it's fine, you just can't remarry. I told the mediator I don't know about the law, but If you are still legally married then it is adultery by definition.

 

This is another big red flag that suggests that she was already seeing someone when you went to the mediator.

[Owl]

What do you want to do?

 

Fight to rebuild a marital relationship with your wife?

 

Or...

 

Amicably divorce her and joint parent your daughter?

 

 

There are many steps in either process that are mutually EXCLUSIVE.

 

Meaning you can't take those steps if you're following the "other" path.

 

In other words...make up your mind about what your GOAL is...and work towards your goal. IF you're trying to do both...you're going to fail miserably at BOTH.