Hi I'm new, my MM has proposal for divorce or alternative.

[frannie]

Hello 26point2.

 

Firstly, yes, it is very confusing when you're stuck in the middle of things, and to be quite honest at times posting on a forum doesn't seem to help with unravelling what is truth and what is lies and what is the sensible way forward. As you see, some people will say you can't believe a word that comes out of a MM's mouth, he has no intentions of leaving, he's probably off on his holiday with his W, etc., not realising that even in an affair yes, the OW can know plenty of the 'truth', like the fact he's off on a trip with a bunch of men. So, who do you believe..? Everything begins to look like lies if you look at it long enough. Very difficult.

 

I think the answer is to take back your power and control of your own life. I think you did that when you decided to go NC, but as you say, you broke it (actually did you break it or did he?). You said it was 'too hard on him'. OK, I know that feeling... but you have to remove it from your mind and heart, and think of YOU. If you're not firm with him, he's never going to do anything, and you'll find yourself another 18 months down the line going round in the same circles (believe this is the voice of experience here ).

 

So. On to his proposal.

 

I think it is good that he's come up with this, and that he's promising to leave you alone if he can't manage to file. The one thing I'm wondering about is whether YOU will be able to leave him alone, or whether you'll do what I did, sympathise, give him more time, etc. etc. I think that for that reason you have to make sure in your mind that you're really done this time if he doesnt' file. I mean 'done' enough to stick to NC.

 

I don't agree with those who say, oh heck if he has no kids then what's the problem? I don't even agree with you when you say, well why does he need me to be there..? From where I'm standing, it seems that he and his W or stbxW or whatever, have reached a kind of understanding and statis. They live far enough apart that they don't bother each other. They have a house, investments, financial ties and the animals. He gets somewhere to be if he wants to be there. Neither of their families is disturbed by divorce. Now, what is his motivation to leave? IF you weren't on the scene, my guess is he wouldn't go through with it unless she insisted. Yes the 'marriage is over' only it's not. The fact you're on the scene and not kicking up enough stink about it means he's not going to file either. Because he is a conflict-avoider. And at the moment... where is the conflict..? If he DID insist (against his W's wishes) that he wanted a divorce, there would suddenly be plenty of conflict. For 18 months, appeasing you has been the line of least resistance.

 

Now, things have probably got to the point where he's fairly sure he wants a future with you, 18 months of overnighters seems enough time to me. However, he's still not going to do a thing about it unless he's made to choose. Which is why I think it's good he's putting some pressure on himself here (though let's not get carried away, it's not much pressure), by stating his intentions, giving himself and you a time-limit, and promising to bow out if he fails.

 

I think he's basically asked your permission to tell his W about you because you (nor he) have any idea how much chite will hit the fan once she finds out there's an OW. Some BSs will go so far as contacting your employer and causing trouble, its been known, actually its often advised on Infidelity boards. So you may be in some 'danger' from his disclosure. It may in fact be that she will be MUCH less willing to file for a D if she knows he has another woman waiting for him. People can be like that . So his plan to come clean may backfire horribly. Although, having said that, perhaps he knows that if she's aware he's been cheating on her she will be only too keen to file. We can have no idea of that: only he can judge, so let's hope he knows her well.

 

I would say: all you can do at this stage is wait and see. I know how when this kind of thing is happening (he's rolling up to telling her, supposedly), that every day seems like a lifetime, and its not easy to take it easy and see how it all pans out. But try to keep it in perspective and let him go up to his self-imposed deadline. And then come back and talk about what happened, and see where to go from there.

 

I certainly wouldn't be giving up hope. However, I'd be pretty certain that I'd need to do some tough acting, put my foot down, and remain firm with him. Otherwise it's just going to run and run and run. Time to put YOURSELF first here. He can be as chicken and undecided as he likes, but this is your life.

[Owl]

No. You've got me there. But why would he say he will never contact me again if he doesn't follow through? That must mean he's serious.

 

Because he's just SAYING it. He's parroting back the words you gave him, in the hopes he can keep the status quo.

 

Everyone has said this to you numerous times now...the reason that he's saying one thing, BUT DOING ANOTHER is obvious...its because he's got the situation right where he wants it and he does NOT want it to change.

 

Bluntly...he's got his marriage, and all the security and home life etc...there. AND, he's got his little tidbit on the side that he can tap when he feels like it...YOU.

 

And if he has those two things balanced...why would he want to change that???

 

I get the impression that you don't want to believe what I (and all the others) are telling you. That his words are meaningless, but his actions are telling you clearly what he wants out of all of this. I'm sure that it isn't what you WANT to hear, but its very clearly what you NEED to hear.

 

There really isn't much else to say at this point.

[frannie]

Because he's just SAYING it. He's parroting back the words you gave him, in the hopes he can keep the status quo.

 

I don't want to speak on someone else's behalf, but for me the question was put as: surely, if he's saying this is going to happen in a couple of weeks or he'll end the affair... then he will have to end the affair, yes..?

 

Because if he's backed himself into a corner like that (giving himself a deadline, and consequences), then it will/would be pretty obvious when that deadline passes and the consequences don't materialise..?

 

OR are you saying that he will definitely fail to file (probable) AND THEN also fail to end the affair?

[26point2]

Hello 26point2.

 

Firstly, yes, it is very confusing when you're stuck in the middle of things, and to be quite honest at times posting on a forum doesn't seem to help with unravelling what is truth and what is lies and what is the sensible way forward. As you see, some people will say you can't believe a word that comes out of a MM's mouth, he has no intentions of leaving, he's probably off on his holiday with his W, etc., not realising that even in an affair yes, the OW can know plenty of the 'truth', like the fact he's off on a trip with a bunch of men. So, who do you believe..? Everything begins to look like lies if you look at it long enough. Very difficult.

 

I think the answer is to take back your power and control of your own life. I think you did that when you decided to go NC, but as you say, you broke it (actually did you break it or did he?). You said it was 'too hard on him'. OK, I know that feeling... but you have to remove it from your mind and heart, and think of YOU. If you're not firm with him, he's never going to do anything, and you'll find yourself another 18 months down the line going round in the same circles (believe this is the voice of experience here ).

 

So. On to his proposal.

 

I think it is good that he's come up with this, and that he's promising to leave you alone if he can't manage to file. The one thing I'm wondering about is whether YOU will be able to leave him alone, or whether you'll do what I did, sympathise, give him more time, etc. etc. I think that for that reason you have to make sure in your mind that you're really done this time if he doesnt' file. I mean 'done' enough to stick to NC.

 

I don't agree with those who say, oh heck if he has no kids then what's the problem? I don't even agree with you when you say, well why does he need me to be there..? From where I'm standing, it seems that he and his W or stbxW or whatever, have reached a kind of understanding and statis. They live far enough apart that they don't bother each other. They have a house, investments, financial ties and the animals. He gets somewhere to be if he wants to be there. Neither of their families is disturbed by divorce. Now, what is his motivation to leave? IF you weren't on the scene, my guess is he wouldn't go through with it unless she insisted. Yes the 'marriage is over' only it's not. The fact you're on the scene and not kicking up enough stink about it means he's not going to file either. Because he is a conflict-avoider. And at the moment... where is the conflict..? If he DID insist (against his W's wishes) that he wanted a divorce, there would suddenly be plenty of conflict. For 18 months, appeasing you has been the line of least resistance.

 

Now, things have probably got to the point where he's fairly sure he wants a future with you, 18 months of overnighters seems enough time to me. However, he's still not going to do a thing about it unless he's made to choose. Which is why I think it's good he's putting some pressure on himself here (though let's not get carried away, it's not much pressure), by stating his intentions, giving himself and you a time-limit, and promising to bow out if he fails.

 

I think he's basically asked your permission to tell his W about you because you (nor he) have any idea how much chite will hit the fan once she finds out there's an OW. Some BSs will go so far as contacting your employer and causing trouble, its been known, actually its often advised on Infidelity boards. So you may be in some 'danger' from his disclosure. It may in fact be that she will be MUCH less willing to file for a D if she knows he has another woman waiting for him. People can be like that . So his plan to come clean may backfire horribly. Although, having said that, perhaps he knows that if she's aware he's been cheating on her she will be only too keen to file. We can have no idea of that: only he can judge, so let's hope he knows her well.

 

I would say: all you can do at this stage is wait and see. I know how when this kind of thing is happening (he's rolling up to telling her, supposedly), that every day seems like a lifetime, and its not easy to take it easy and see how it all pans out. But try to keep it in perspective and let him go up to his self-imposed deadline. And then come back and talk about what happened, and see where to go from there.

 

I certainly wouldn't be giving up hope. However, I'd be pretty certain that I'd need to do some tough acting, put my foot down, and remain firm with him. Otherwise it's just going to run and run and run. Time to put YOURSELF first here. He can be as chicken and undecided as he likes, but this is your life.

 

Frannie, your post is so understanding and helpful, thank you. It seems like you really understand my situation.

 

I took this to be that he is giving himself an ultimatum. I even asked him that and once he thought about it he said, yes, that's what he's doing. He said he understands that he needs to get divorced or leave me alone.

 

Maybe I'm a fool like some people are saying but I do believe that he cares about me. He sees how this is affecting me and that it can't go on. I didn't give him any ultimatums, I just walked away. You're right that he broke NC, but I responded, because I thought that he understood things had to change if he stills wants me in his life, and he's changing them.

 

I DO see what Owl's saying: that he could just be saying what I want to hear and that when he gets back he won't file, he won't tell her about me, and he won't leave me alone. Well if that happens I will know that he doesn't care about me. He does just want to keep eating his cake like most of the other people say. I will have lost all hope and I will walk away.

 

Yes Lizzie I do still have some hope left, but this is the last of it. In the past I have walked away from him and he has begged me for more. I have never begged him for anything and I'm not about to start. If he doesn't do what he says he wants to do then I am not afraid to live without him. I love him but I love myself more and I know I can't do this anymore.

 

I agree Frannie, it's time to put myself first. I want to tell him not to contact me when he gets back until he's filed. I think that's a way I can be in control, because otherwise he may be thinking, after he gets back he can contact me about what his plan is and what he's been thinking, etc. I don't want to know any of that anymore. I just want to know whether he's filed. Otherwise I will get on with my life without him.

[Owl]

I DO see what Owl's saying: that he could just be saying what I want to hear and that when he gets back he won't file, he won't tell her about me, and he won't leave me alone. Well if that happens I will know that he doesn't care about me. He does just want to keep eating his cake like most of the other people say. I will have lost all hope and I will walk away.

 

I promise you...he's not thinking that far ahead.

 

He's going to keep pushing back a departure time, keep changing the times.

 

We've had OW post on this site who had been put off in that fashion for DECADES.

 

There's nothing new or unique here that tells me that you're experiencing anything different from any of the other hundreds of situations we've seen here.

 

Unless you add a specific DATE AND TIME for him to have moved out...he'll avoid this issue for as long as he can. He'll try to postpone or push back that date as it approaches...we've seen this over and over.

 

What he's doing is classic, standard, cheating man's script.

[26point2]

I promise you...he's not thinking that far ahead.

 

He's going to keep pushing back a departure time, keep changing the times.

 

We've had OW post on this site who had been put off in that fashion for DECADES.

 

There's nothing new or unique here that tells me that you're experiencing anything different from any of the other hundreds of situations we've seen here.

 

Unless you add a specific DATE AND TIME for him to have moved out...he'll avoid this issue for as long as he can. He'll try to postpone or push back that date as it approaches...we've seen this over and over.

 

What he's doing is classic, standard, cheating man's script.

 

I understand you've heard this tons of times before. But it's still my unique situation. He's a real live breathing man and I'm a real live breathing woman and all of that. So I am trying to find a balance between totally trusting him because I love him and just thinking "screw this year and a half, he's just a walking cliche and now that I know I will never say boo to him again." I mean it's just not as easy to do for me in this position as it may seem to you in that position.

 

So Owl what do you think of me telling him not to contact me when he gets back unless he's filed for divorce or told his wife about me? (In other words, unless he has clearly chosen to be with me and only me). And if he does contact me before that, I will completely ignore him. Would that be giving him a certain enough date and time?

 

I don't want to force this decision on him. He knows I'm here, he's a big boy and he can figure out why I no longer want to talk to him. If he wants to blame me and feel like I hate him just because I no longer am settling for being second place, well fine, I won't be around to hear it. If he doesn't choose me, I will walk. I am not afraid to do that. I sure don't want to MAKE him get divorced if he doesn't want to. I just was trying to be patient and not push him. But the time for me to do that is up and I want to make that clear to him. If he doesn't want to get divorced, fine, then he can't have me. He can stay married and I won't blame him for that choice, it was there from the beginning and at least I will have nailed him down to a concrete choice...

[2sunny]

I promise you...he's not thinking that far ahead.

 

He's going to keep pushing back a departure time, keep changing the times.

 

We've had OW post on this site who had been put off in that fashion for DECADES.

 

There's nothing new or unique here that tells me that you're experiencing anything different from any of the other hundreds of situations we've seen here.

 

Unless you add a specific DATE AND TIME for him to have moved out...he'll avoid this issue for as long as he can. He'll try to postpone or push back that date as it approaches...we've seen this over and over.

 

What he's doing is classic, standard, cheating man's script.

 

especially when he even goes so far as to say that he's waiting to see if his W will file...

 

you would think if he feels that he's planning on making a firm decision that it would be followed up with HIS course of action - not dependent on the actions of the W.

 

also - even if he decides to take action himself... he should have no need to bring you up to her at that point. that seems like he wants to pass the spotlight on you instead of taking the heat himself. kind of wimpy if you ask me...

[Owl]

I understand you've heard this tons of times before. But it's still my unique situation. He's a real live breathing man and I'm a real live breathing woman and all of that. So I am trying to find a balance between totally trusting him because I love him and just thinking "screw this year and a half, he's just a walking cliche and now that I know I will never say boo to him again." I mean it's just not as easy to do for me in this position as it may seem to you in that position.

 

So Owl what do you think of me telling him not to contact me when he gets back unless he's filed for divorce or told his wife about me? (In other words, unless he has clearly chosen to be with me and only me). And if he does contact me before that, I will completely ignore him. Would that be giving him a certain enough date and time?

 

I don't want to force this decision on him. He knows I'm here, he's a big boy and he can figure out why I no longer want to talk to him. If he wants to blame me and feel like I hate him just because I no longer am settling for being second place, well fine, I won't be around to hear it. If he doesn't choose me, I will walk. I am not afraid to do that. I sure don't want to MAKE him get divorced if he doesn't want to. I just was trying to be patient and not push him. But the time for me to do that is up and I want to make that clear to him. If he doesn't want to get divorced, fine, then he can't have me. He can stay married and I won't blame him for that choice, it was there from the beginning and at least I will have nailed him down to a concrete choice...

 

I recognize that you're a breathing human being...if I didn't think that there was a real person on the other side of the internet, I wouldn't respond at all...it would be a waste of time.

 

Seeing these situations over and over, you start to see a pattern. A 'standard script' that is repeated again and again. While this situation is unique TO YOU, its parameters, the dynamics...they remain virtually unchanged through nearly every poster.

 

You asked what I think of your request that you made of him not to contact you once he gets back if he's not filed... I'll be honest, its nothing new as well. The REAL question remains as to whether or not you're willing to back that up. If he hasn't filed...will you stick to your boundary? NC isn't easy.

 

I realize that you don't want to "force" him to do anything. What I've been trying to tell you is that he doesn't WANT to do anything. He wants things to stay exactly as they are. By laying down this boundary, you are forcing him to do something...if you enforce it when he doesn't comply.

 

If he does file (and you need to think about what proof you require of that), I'll be AMAZED.

 

What PROOF of filing have you required? His word? A request to see the documents, signed by both him AND his attorney? (Realize you can get the documents online rather cheaply nowadays...and so he can print them out and sign them himself, without having taken ANY kind of committed action). There is a poster on the board currently who's MM forged divorce documents in a similar fashion and kept her going for over a year.

 

 

Honestly...if you don't FORCE him to choose, he won't. That's exactly what I see here. If you continue to believe his word over his DEEDS...you'll remain in this situation for as long as you continue to do so.

 

If you want my suggestion on what to do from here, I'd be glad to share it with you. That's up to you.

[Lookingforward]

 

What PROOF of filing have you required? His word? A request to see the documents, signed by both him AND his attorney? (Realize you can get the documents online rather cheaply nowadays...and so he can print them out and sign them himself, without having taken ANY kind of committed action). There is a poster on the board currently who's MM forged divorce documents in a similar fashion and kept her going for over a year.

 

If it was me I would require seeing the actual FILED documents complete with the stamp from the clerk of courts and the case # (but even then, petitions CAN,and sometimes are, withdrawn after filling).

 

The only DEFINITE proof of a D is the final decree imo.

[26point2]

especially when he even goes so far as to say that he's waiting to see if his W will file...

 

you would think if he feels that he's planning on making a firm decision that it would be followed up with HIS course of action - not dependent on the actions of the W.

 

also - even if he decides to take action himself... he should have no need to bring you up to her at that point. that seems like he wants to pass the spotlight on you instead of taking the heat himself. kind of wimpy if you ask me...

 

Hi 2sunny. I understand your point about the fact that he wants HER to file. It has always been like that. I believe it has to do with what Frannie talks about-- that he is a conflict-avoider and he doesn't know how to tell his wife why this is so necessary. I truly believe they have had a distant and unfulfilled marriage for a long time. Yes I only know his side of things but I see him so much, he is rarely with her and he describes how they just don't click and they don't share common interests or a connection like him and I do. He talks about how she belittles things he does and is totally disinterested in his life and interests. (Yes, I KNOW he is not blameless and the fact that he is having an affair with me doesn't help their connection. But I just mean that I believe he feels underappreciated and undervalued by her [and she probably feels the same by him. He just doesn't think they are a good match.])

 

But the very problem is that it's always been like this and he has been telling her he wants a divorce since he met me (that part I only know from what he says) and she's like, "why now?" Well the answer is only ME. So I think he doesn't know how to stress to her why he wants a divorce without bringing me into it. I can understand why he feels he needs to tell her about me, as only then would she truly understands that he no longer wants to be married to her. I guess a harder yet perhaps better way out is for him to just tell her he's not happy and no longer wants to be married to her. But maybe he feels like that wouldn't be giving her the full truth, that she deserves to know he is in love with someone else and has been with me for all the this time.

 

I do think he's being pretty wimpy. I understand that he doesn't want to hurt her but at the same time he has been hurting her by doing this behind her back. I've only ever wanted him to step up to the plate and do what he says he wants to do -- get divorced and be with me. Since he hasn't done that I've realized I have to step aside because otherwise I'm enabling him to continue hurting her behind her back. And I'm being hurt in the process too. Now I'm seeing that they have this strange arrangement where they're not very happy together but they are okay staying married exceptthat he sees that he could have a much more happy and fulfilling relationship with me. If he doesn't want that to get divorced enough to do that, then I need to step out of the way and let their marriage continue on as usual. I mean I have been making his problems my own for too long now, I guess.

[26point2]

If you want my suggestion on what to do from here, I'd be glad to share it with you. That's up to you.

 

Sure, shoot. I'm at a loss. I guess that's why I came here in the first place. I had gone NC based on things I'd read in this forum and when we broke NC for his proposal I wasn't sure what that meant or what I should do next. My heart said to trust him but my gut was telling me I've been trusting him for too long and if this doesn't pan out, I will be DONE with him. I went NC because I knew it was time for a big change. I am quite ready to enforce NC or any other boundary. It's not even like I'm mad at him, I'm just sick of his back and forth. I am really ready to live life for me and me only if he doesn't do something to show me he wants to be with me and only me.

[26point2]

If it was me I would require seeing the actual FILED documents complete with the stamp from the clerk of courts and the case # (but even then, petitions CAN,and sometimes are, withdrawn after filling).

 

The only DEFINITE proof of a D is the final decree imo.

 

Are you saying I should say no to his proposal and tell him I don't want to even talk to him until he is divorced with the final decree? I always thought that if he made some huge step like filing or moving completely out on his own, he would be showing me he's serious and I would support him.

[Owl]

Tell him that you're done with being his OW...TODAY. RIGHT NOW.

 

Its over. If he wants a relationship with you, then he should feel free to start a 'legitimate' relationship with you. WHEN HE'S AVAILABLE TO DO SO.

 

In other words, tell him that you're more than willing to date him, and even consider marriage...once he's divorced. Completely.

 

But until that time, there's no point in maintaining a relationship between the two of you.

 

And then you REALLY go NC. Completely...black hole darkness of no contact. Tell him you want no further contact between the two of you until he's divorced, and moved out. Enforce that. Move on. Date others if you want to...in other words, don't hang your life on hold waiting on HIM to get off his butt and finally take charge of the situation.

 

Anything less will just leave you sitting right where you're at indefinitely.

 

There is no reason why you should be putting your life on hold while you're waiting on him. There is no reason why he can't do the things he needs to do in order to have a REAL relationship wtih you. HE'S CHOOSING NOT TO.

 

Move on with your life...NOW. If he comes around, and if you're still available by the time he is, then its YOUR CHOICE to move forward then or not.

 

Right now, you're living life at HIS decision. Based off HIS control of the sitaution.

 

Set a boundary here. Tell yourself that you are no longer his mistress. You'll be glad to be his girlfriend, or his wife...WHEN HE'S AVAILABLE TO HAVE ONE.

[Owl]

26.2, I know you don't like to think that your situation is like 'everyone else's'...but it is.

 

LF gave advice based off the fact that we have seen a huge number of stories where the MM 'promised' all kinds of things...and never delivered. Even moved out, or filed...and then refused to take the next steps. They almost inevitably end up back with their wives.

 

Divorce is the final step that makes him available. Its the REAL turning point where he can REALLY begin a relationship with someone else...out in the open, up front, no more lies and hiding.

 

Going through with the divorce is your commitment. Filing...isn't a commitment. Moving out...still very easy to undo. Actually going through with the divorce is public, its expensive...its a clear message to everyone.

 

That's why I think LF posted what was posted. I know its the basis for my advice to you.

[2sunny]

i just want to say that i think your mature and open minded attitude is commendable.

 

this has got to be a very difficult situation for you and i appreciate the fact that you are willing to continue this discussion by being up front with honesty.

 

know that we are here for your best interest - and happiness for your future based on the info you've given - and have that in mind.

[26point2]

Thank you both. I do realize that my situation is not unique. I know that you all care about me-- well, as much as you can care for an unknown poster on the Internet -- and that you are taking the time to give me your best advice because I came here and asked for it. I didn't even know WHAT I was asking for at first but now I see there are so many different facets of this.

 

I can see that my MM's proposal is his way of still trying to keep the ball in his court. I told him not to contact me until he's divorced. I wasn't mean about it and I didn't blame him for anything, I mean, I know this situation is incredibly complicated and all I can do is step aside because it hasn't worked out the way I thought it would. I'm only in control of me and I told him that. He is in control of him and he can decide whether to get divorced and contact me or not get divorced and not contact me.

 

Instead of listening to me he contacted me, I see that now. I saw it as he realized I was walking away and he needed to change something. Whether or not he can actually make that change is still to be determined. I know him well and I think that he is planning to go away and muster up his resolve to make the big change. He will be on his trip thinking "when I get back, I just need to do it. She is there for me so there is nothing to lose." That's why he wants to know I've got his back 100%- although I've shown him that with my actions and all he's given me is words, so I'm not sure what else he wants from me. Maybe he wants me to go tell his wife about us with him. Um, no. I do take responsibility for my role in this affair but I don't think it's my place to help her see that he is unhappy with the marriage and happy with me. So I don't know how I can play a role in that decision for him.

 

So I think I will go back to my way or the highway. This is not an acceptable proposal because it leaves too much up in the air. "After" he gets back from his trip. That creates a loophole because 18 more months from now is still technically "after" he gets back from his trip. His wife wants to file. Well he's told me that before. Look how far it's gotten us. If she doesn't, he will tell her about me... if I agree. Well what is there to agree to? I can't stop him from doing that if it's his decision. In fact I think she deserves to know the full truth but I also can't make him do that. All of these choices are for him to decide. Maybe he is afraid she still won't want to get divorced, and the only way to convince her is to tell her about me, and then I will say sorry buster. Well I would not say that and he should know that. I would say finally! But I don't really want to tell him that because I don't want to be his back up plan. "Well, I only want out of my marriage if I can be with 26point2 forever." That is probably what he's thinking. Well how could I guarantee him anything beyond I want to be with him if he wants to be with me and only me. That is all I can do.

 

And you're right, Owl, I don't want to be the OW anymore. So I need to make that clear. I don't want to be waiting the week and a half while he's gone wondering if he will really do it when he gets back. So I want to go back to what I originally said. If he gets divorced he can contact me. Until then, I hope he has a happy life.

[2sunny]

it's important for you to understand that even if a decision is made to divorce and action is taken - it still can take a VERY long time to get it finalized.

 

in my case that was 2-1/2 years and we were both trying to make it be finished - neither of us was necessarily road blocking the other. there are just certain logistics and complications to work through that seem to take forever...

[26point2]

it's important for you to understand that even if a decision is made to divorce and action is taken - it still can take a VERY long time to get it finalized.

 

in my case that was 2-1/2 years and we were both trying to make it be finished - neither of us was necessarily road blocking the other. there are just certain logistics and complications to work through that seem to take forever...

 

He keeps telling me it's taking so long for them to file because they are working it all out. Dividing all their assets and drawing up a document so that they can file mutually. He said once they file it will be pretty quick. I don't know what the believe anymore though. 2 1/2 years, geez.

[bentnotbroken]

He keeps telling me it's taking so long for them to file because they are working it all out. Dividing all their assets and drawing up a document so that they can file mutually. He said once they file it will be pretty quick. I don't know what the believe anymore though. 2 1/2 years, geez.

 

 

 

Depending on the state, it is possible for a quickie, but not likely. Don't get your hopes up.

[26point2]

Depending on the state, it is possible for a quickie, but not likely. Don't get your hopes up.

 

In our state it is quick if both parties consent. My friend got a divorce in ten days here. What can take a long time is dividing the assets but that's what they're supposedly doing before they file.

[frannie]

I have never begged him for anything and I'm not about to start. If he doesn't do what he says he wants to do then I am not afraid to live without him. I love him but I love myself more and I know I can't do this anymore.

 

I agree Frannie, it's time to put myself first. I want to tell him not to contact me when he gets back until he's filed. I think that's a way I can be in control, because otherwise he may be thinking, after he gets back he can contact me about what his plan is and what he's been thinking, etc. I don't want to know any of that anymore. I just want to know whether he's filed. Otherwise I will get on with my life without him.

 

I think you're right, on balance. I think you have written here very eloquently about where you stand in this, and what you require from him. And I think if you have made that clear to him, then there's nothing really more to say is there?

 

I am trying to find a balance between totally trusting him because I love him and just thinking "screw this year and a half, he's just a walking cliche and now that I know I will never say boo to him again." I mean it's just not as easy to do for me in this position as it may seem to you in that position.

 

I just was trying to be patient and not push him. But the time for me to do that is up and I want to make that clear to him. If he doesn't want to get divorced, fine, then he can't have me. He can stay married and I won't blame him for that choice, it was there from the beginning and at least I will have nailed him down to a concrete choice...

 

Yes, it's hard. As Owl says, there are a great many similarities in these stories (mine is similar, too), but at the same time, the outcomes are not always the same. And in fact, the outcomes are spread over years and years of an affair, sometimes two years after a d-day the divorce will finally happen, for example. I don't think LS is a good place to learn about affairs, since so many posters come, post and then disappear. I think that's in the nature of the site, and the advice given, if I'm honest. There is not the longevity of posting from individual OW that you get on some other sites. I'll give an example: how many of those OW posting in the past month about their crisis situation (depressedwaiting, neverendingsaga, kellykellykelly, and all the others) are going to be here in a year or two years..? My guess is none of them. So we have no idea of what happens 'in the end', only a snapshot of a difficult time. Occasionally, someone will come back and say, 'well he finally left', but most don't, and we don't get an update at all.

 

However, all this is by the by. Because:

 

... it's always been like this and he has been telling her he wants a divorce since he met me (that part I only know from what he says) and she's like, "why now?" Well the answer is only ME. So I think he doesn't know how to stress to her why he wants a divorce without bringing me into it. I can understand why he feels he needs to tell her about me, as only then would she truly understands that he no longer wants to be married to her. I guess a harder yet perhaps better way out is for him to just tell her he's not happy and no longer wants to be married to her. But maybe he feels like that wouldn't be giving her the full truth, that she deserves to know he is in love with someone else and has been with me for all the this time.

 

I do think he's being pretty wimpy.

 

Yes, he is. But that's really par for the course. The fact is that you're focusing here on his problems, what he has to do to get where he wants to be, etc. etc... it doesn't matter. It's all his problem don't make it yours. Your job is to tell him what you want and then let him get on with it (jmho). Holding his hand through it all just drags it out longer and destroys your sense of self.

 

In our state it is quick if both parties consent. My friend got a divorce in ten days here. What can take a long time is dividing the assets but that's what they're supposedly doing before they file.

 

Well here you have why he maybe wants her to consent..? But involving yourself in all that is a recipe for madness. Step back. Total NC if you like, and if you're really done. But of course to do that takes a good deal of 'being done', and if you still have unanswered questions and so on (and you sound like you still have a few..?) then you're absolutely right to run it past people, talk to him more about it.

 

Look at it this way, what would be the point of putting in a couple of months solid NC and then realising you STILL were going over and over a few things in your mind. You might (as I did the first time I went proper NC) find that you break it to get those questions put to bed. And that is a massive waste of your time and effort, and also makes you look like you don't know what you want.

 

So I would go on tackling this till you're good and READY to go NC. Not 'today' or 'tomorrow' necessarily, but even in a month if that's what you need to get it clear. After all, 'total NC for good, unless you're filed (or divorced or whatever)' is pretty FINAL.

 

The silence afterwards can be deafening. I've been there for 5 months now. So make sure it's what you want right now

[26point2]

Thank you Owl and Frannie (and everyone else).

 

I talked to him last evening and told him all that's on my mind. He understood and was pretty open and honest. For example, I told him I don't know if he's thought all the way through about telling his wife. I told him that he can't just tell her "BTW I accidentally recently fell in love with someone else" and hope that she'll understand and it will be a clean break at last. I said she'd probably want to know (although I have no idea, it's just an assumption) when we started, how long we've lasted, what exactly has been going on etc. He would have to directly lie to her or confess he's been seeing me the whole time they've been through marriage counseling etc. I said it would be a huge blow to her and she'd realize that the last year and a half of their marriage has been a lie. I said I don't know how he'll feel once it's all out in the open-- but it would probably all catch up to him and he'd really feel the gravity of what we've been doing. (Right now he justifies it all by saying they're not really emotionally committed because they're going through a divorce and it's all over except technically.)

 

Instead of getting upset like he understandably sometimes does when I say he doesn't always think things all the way through or I allude to the fact that he's not doing the right thing for either of us, he understood and he said, I'm right, maybe he does need to think things through more. And he said it's not going to be long until they file and get divorced so maybe the best thing to do is wait.

 

I told him those are his decisions to make and I don't want to pressure him or make him feel like I'm mad at him etc. I just need to step aside as I should have done, and tried unsuccessfully to do, some time ago. He said the hard part about that is that his feelings are so strong and he doesn't want to lose me. I said, because he loves me the right thing to do is to give me all of him, with all the risks and consequences that entails, or to take none of me, with all the risks and consequences that entails. He said he understood. I said that unless he files or is 100% sure he wants to tell her and be with me honestly, then he can't contact me and I'm not going to contact him. He also said he understoods.

 

It went much better than I was expecting. I'm sad but I also feel a sense of relief. I am so tired to wondering. You're right, Frannie, these are his problems to deal with. If he doesn't make a move then I hope I can be strong enough to get to 5 months NC like you. I am so tired of being in the middle and I would love to be in a place where I am just thinking about myself, not him.

 

Owl thank you for the advice and I feel like I followed it to the best of my ability. Frannie thank you for the understanding and the advice which was pretty much the same. I'm the NC Queen from now on. Wish me strength because I'm a wuss.

[26point2]

The one thing that made me think "huh?" is that after he said he realized he does need more time to think about the ramifications of telling his wife, I said, "and I need space and time alone. I know it's hard for us to not contact each other so I'm glad you're going away because it will jumpstart our NC." (A lot of the time he won't have reception because he'll be up really high and out in the boonies.) Then he said, "Yeah, that's what I was thinking initially, that this trip will give me time to think."

 

So those of you who were talking about his soul searching and wanting reassurance that I'll still be here were pretty spot on. I think he is still not sure how to handle this mess. I know he wants to be with me but I'm honestly not sure if he's got it in him to do what's necessary, at least within some sane amount of time before I haven't given up all hope.

 

And I have some soul searching to do too. I never wanted to be an OW. This is not what I wanted out of life. So how did I get here? I feel selfish because I know his wife and I didn't think I was the type of person to participate in betrayal. But I guess I am. I guess I gave myself a lot of excuses, and believed his. I often feel like I was used and I was a user. So I think that no matter what happens with him, this time alone is really necessary for me to figure out what happened and why. I guess that's a good thing to think about whenever I'm thinking about contacting him...

[frannie]

Hey, good luck. If it's what you really want, and you're settled in your mind, you will find the strength, it will be there

[26point2]

Hey, good luck. If it's what you really want, and you're settled in your mind, you will find the strength, it will be there

 

Well it's definitely not what I really want. What I really want is for him to be divorced and us to be together. But since I can't have what I want, NC is what I really need. So I will have to fake it because I don't want it but I know I need it, if that makes any sense.