Here's a Doozie for ya...

[Owl]

I think that has more to do with her being a W than being a mother. Mothers are just concerned that their kids are safe and happy, and want the best for them. It's in the role of W that the woman's jealousy and resentment will intrude on who she wants her kids around - assuming of course that the OW is a normal respectable person, who she'd otherwise be fine around if she wasn't involved with her H. (If the OW sells drugs to underage kids or is involved in human trafficking, clearly that's different...)

 

Respectfully, from a BS perspective, you'll probably find that the BS will nearly always feel that the OW/OM is NOT the "kind of person" that they want their children to be around. They won't find the OW/OM as a "normal, respectable person".

 

Their morals are already 'suspect', at a minimum. They've already demonstrated a lack by pursuing someone who's already married. By condoning the lies that had to have gone on to support the affair. Etc...

 

Again, I know this comes across as harsh, but its exactly where the vast majority of BS's are going to stand on this. They're going to feel that it clearly isn't just a matter of "jealousy and resentment"...from their perspective, there's a clear concern.

 

From my perspective...back when my kids were still kids...I wouldn't have been comfortable with them spending the night at someone's house who was cheating on their spouse. Because I'd have the concern of "what ELSE may be going on there???".

 

I don't mean this as an attack...I know how it sounds...but I'm just setting out a clarification of the thought processes.

[frannie]

Respectfully, from a BS perspective, you'll probably find that the BS will nearly always feel that the OW/OM is NOT the "kind of person" that they want their children to be around. They won't find the OW/OM as a "normal, respectable person".

 

Their morals are already 'suspect', at a minimum. They've already demonstrated a lack by pursuing someone who's already married. By condoning the lies that had to have gone on to support the affair. Etc...

 

Again, I know this comes across as harsh, but its exactly where the vast majority of BS's are going to stand on this. They're going to feel that it clearly isn't just a matter of "jealousy and resentment"...from their perspective, there's a clear concern.

 

From my perspective...back when my kids were still kids...I wouldn't have been comfortable with them spending the night at someone's house who was cheating on their spouse. Because I'd have the concern of "what ELSE may be going on there???".

 

I don't mean this as an attack...I know how it sounds...but I'm just setting out a clarification of the thought processes.

 

But do you feel the same way about your wife, given she cheated on you? Or do you feel she's an otherwise 'normal, respectable person'?

 

Any BS whose partner has left has the problem that their children are going to be spending time with someone who cheated on their partner: their ex.

 

But I'm not saying your thought processes aren't correct about part of what the BS might be thinking with regard to who you want your children to spend time with. I do believe a huge part of it is jealousy, however, and nothing to do with the possible 'morals' of anyone. As I say, their father (or mother) has cheated themselves, and its unavoidable that they will spend time with their own child.

[Owl]

No arguments from me, Frannie.

 

Its not a rational thought process...I'll be the first to agree.

[GreenEyedLady]

Respectfully, from a BS perspective, you'll probably find that the BS will nearly always feel that the OW/OM is NOT the "kind of person" that they want their children to be around. They won't find the OW/OM as a "normal, respectable person".

 

Their morals are already 'suspect', at a minimum. They've already demonstrated a lack by pursuing someone who's already married. By condoning the lies that had to have gone on to support the affair. Etc...

 

Again, I know this comes across as harsh, but its exactly where the vast majority of BS's are going to stand on this. They're going to feel that it clearly isn't just a matter of "jealousy and resentment"...from their perspective, there's a clear concern.

 

From my perspective...back when my kids were still kids...I wouldn't have been comfortable with them spending the night at someone's house who was cheating on their spouse. Because I'd have the concern of "what ELSE may be going on there???".

 

I don't mean this as an attack...I know how it sounds...but I'm just setting out a clarification of the thought processes.

 

You know, maybe that's how a BS feels, but the courts don't base their decisions on what one side feels...

 

And whether the BS wants their child to stay with their XH and his partner doesn't matter IRL...The R between the child and both parents is paramount...And as long as it isn't a matter of safety, preserving and nurturing the R is what the court sees as important...

 

I'm sure my honey's XW doesn't like that we live together...But you know what she sees? That her daughter is well-cared for and loved...And her daughter loves to be with us...

 

But I think that's probably the BS worst fear...That their child will actually love the OP...

 

It has nothing to do with the child; it has to do with the BS...

[White Flower]

I have to cast some suspicion on his true intentions when he "moved out". Of course, I don't know his financial situation, but, with the hours he's working, I can assume that he's pulling in a decent paycheck. What I find odd is that he didn't find and secure a 1 year, 6 month, or even a month to month lease. Instead, he opted for a furnished 1 week apartment in a seedy neighborhood. His lack of intent would only be more obvious if he found someplace that rented by the hour! It doesn't look like he stretched too far out on the limb to truly separate from his wife and begin a new life on his own does it?!

 

I think that all he's shown you are "props" in an attempt to sell and mislead you on his intentions toward you. The choice of the weekly apartment in a seedy area sold you on the fact that his living arrangements weren't conducive for children to visit. His coupe de gras was pulling your heartstrings after you spoke of your feelings of unhappiness by telling you about his son riding down the street after him as he drove off in the distance (how Hollywood can you get) to sell you on why he needs to return home. Of course, the nail in the coffin was that your offer to allow him to move in with you came "too late" because of a promise he made to his son...after all, a promise is a promise...except when made to you! Every move you made or feeling you've expressed he's been able to trump.

 

Now he's got you just where he wants you (faithfully waiting without complaint) while positioning himself exactly where he wants to be (in the bosom of his own home) without further worry or pressure from you to leave again. This guy's missed his calling in life if he doesn't have a career in sales because he's a "Tin Man" from top to bottom.

 

Some may say he didn't plan his attempt to move out on his own very well, but I think he put more thought and effort into pulling off this charade then you might might well be comfortable with or even dare to imagine.

 

Just another perspective to consider.

 

Good luck.

I think you nailed it here. I think he wanted to scare his W and give false hope to the OP. I might have gone along with some of it, but the whole, 'You should have told me earlier' story is just too much. Hello! The child would have gotten over it if you (MM) would have said, 'Honey, we'll be together at OW's house instead of in the basement.' Easy.

 

And if you are as kind as you sound, his W shouldn't have a problem with it. Of course, it would be nice to have you both meet so she can feel more comfortable having her kids around you but only in a perfect world...

[whichwayisup]

Why won't he just let me go? Why does he stay in this mess? Why does he keep coming back to me?

 

Because you won't let him go. Because he is weak and it's easier for him that way he doesn't have to change or make any big effort. Because you allow him to come back to you.

 

BE STRONG and end it. TELL him goodbye and ONLY to contact you when he is officially divorced. If he is bloody miserable in his marriage and wants out, he'll get out. People are truly miserable to the point that they can't function IN the marriage anymore DO get divorced.

 

I believe he isn't as miserable in the marriage as he's made himself out to be.

[kellykellykelly]

Because you won't let him go. Because he is weak and it's easier for him that way he doesn't have to change or make any big effort. Because you allow him to come back to you.

 

BE STRONG and end it. TELL him goodbye and ONLY to contact you when he is officially divorced. If he is bloody miserable in his marriage and wants out, he'll get out. People are truly miserable to the point that they can't function IN the marriage anymore DO get divorced.

 

I believe he isn't as miserable in the marriage as he's made himself out to be.

 

Well, he has been calling and leaving messages and text messages for 2 days and I haven't answered or responded. I can tell he is freaking out about that. I haven't told him officially about NC, and don't know that I will. He knows whats up..... I've only told him a million times! I'm afraid to have contact with him to tell him about NC, because I'm afraid I might slip again and fall into his trap. Yet his calls are tempting to answer. What should I do? I would like to tell him the part about 'when you get a D, then you can call me'

 

You're right. People DO get divorce if it's bad enough. I don't think he has the balls, strength, or motivation to go through with it though. He will probably just go on the way he has been and eventually find a new girlfriend. Just the thought of someone else getting involved with his sickness makes me sick!

 

Everyone on here has really helped me get through the last couple of days.

Thanks!

[OWoman]

But I think that's probably the BS worst fear...That their child will actually love the OP...

 

Or follow the WS's example, and love the OP MORE than them. And abandon them, too. I've seen this many times - the children feeling trapped, having to lie to the BS parent about not liking / not wanting to be around the OP, to make the BS feel better, but this playing into the BS fear who then tries to limit contact between the child and the OP, creating tension between the WS and the BS with the child caught in the middle, saying one thing to the WS, another to the BS, trying to make things "right" for both parents and landing up themselves horribly horribly confused and scared.

 

If only parents could be more adult about these things, things would be a lot easier for the kids!

[frannie]

Well, he has been calling and leaving messages and text messages for 2 days and I haven't answered or responded. I can tell he is freaking out about that. I haven't told him officially about NC, and don't know that I will. He knows whats up..... I've only told him a million times! I'm afraid to have contact with him to tell him about NC, because I'm afraid I might slip again and fall into his trap. Yet his calls are tempting to answer. What should I do? I would like to tell him the part about 'when you get a D, then you can call me'

 

kelly, unless you tell him why you're not answering his calls and texts he's going to keep calling. It's not really effective to go NC for peace IF you don't tell the other person what's going on. How would YOU react if someone suddenly stopped taking your calls with no explanation? I don't know about you, but I'd try to contact them even more than before, possibly going to their home.

 

So come on and be sensible. Tell the guy what you have decided (yes, once more) and then go NC. Yes, I know he knows the score, but you really do need to ask him not to call, and tell him why.

[kellykellykelly]

kelly, unless you tell him why you're not answering his calls and texts he's going to keep calling. It's not really effective to go NC for peace IF you don't tell the other person what's going on. How would YOU react if someone suddenly stopped taking your calls with no explanation? I don't know about you, but I'd try to contact them even more than before, possibly going to their home.

 

So come on and be sensible. Tell the guy what you have decided (yes, once more) and then go NC. Yes, I know he knows the score, but you really do need to ask him not to call, and tell him why.

 

 

I was hoping I would get a reply from you

 

He already text me early this morning before I even woke up. It just said 'Ok.....' In the past whenever I have stayed away from him or broken up with him, he always feels sooo sorry for himself, like I've just crushed him.

He makes me feel like I've just kicked a baby, so I'll end up talking to him and explaining everything (again, that he already knows) and somehow he twists it around and the topic goes from THE MAIN TOPIC to 'what I'm doing to him.' Then I feel guilty and sorry for the 'poor guy' and end up staying because he'll tell me that we're going to figure this out, that he loves me and we ARE going to be together. Then my whole case goes out the window and I lose all credibility, not to mention my self-esteem. I'm afraid of that happening.

 

I guess I will write down what I want to say and keep it short and simple... just the facts. Then call him. It makes me sad. I'm gonna wait a while to see if I get responses from you all. I really need some support here.

[Owl]

One suggestion...

 

TELL the guy what you've decided...

 

Don't discuss it with him.

 

See the difference? Discussing it gives him input (gives him power to influence your actions)...TELLING him maintains the power in YOUR hands.

[whichwayisup]

This guy is a GROWN man, so don't react to him like he's a hurt little lost puppy who's clueless. He KNOWS how to push your buttons and get the reaction he wants out of you. BE strong in your mind and don't allow him to make you feel guilty.

 

Owl is right, TELLING him is taking control, discussing it with him, allows him to manipulate selfishly.

[neverendingsaga]

I was hoping I would get a reply from you

 

He already text me early this morning before I even woke up. It just said 'Ok.....' In the past whenever I have stayed away from him or broken up with him, he always feels sooo sorry for himself, like I've just crushed him.

He makes me feel like I've just kicked a baby, so I'll end up talking to him and explaining everything (again, that he already knows) and somehow he twists it around and the topic goes from THE MAIN TOPIC to 'what I'm doing to him.' Then I feel guilty and sorry for the 'poor guy' and end up staying because he'll tell me that we're going to figure this out, that he loves me and we ARE going to be together. Then my whole case goes out the window and I lose all credibility, not to mention my self-esteem. I'm afraid of that happening.

 

I guess I will write down what I want to say and keep it short and simple... just the facts. Then call him. It makes me sad. I'm gonna wait a while to see if I get responses from you all. I really need some support here.

 

your guy sounds so much like my (X!)guy... only not as bad, but then again right now i have a very bad view of my XMM.

 

but mine always felt sorry for himself & told me it felt like i was hurting him whenever i said i needed space. its a totally self-centered mentality.

 

if your guys like mine then he is going to feel he has no control when you tell him NC & he is going to want to be part of the 'decision making.' mine kept saying, 'why cant we decide this TOGETHER?' i just had to tell myself (b/c it didnt work to try to tell him anything rational) that we're not really TOGETHER seeing as how hes married to someone else, and thats the whole problem!! i did everything, placated him & made him feel like he was part of the decision, told him im sorry, etc... but nothing worked except being STERN & laying down the law. if i gave him an inch he tried to take a mile. he would say 'ok, i see why we need to not talk until we can be together the right way' and i'd think 'whew!' but then later that night he'd text me with something like 'im so broken up about this, please tell me your feeling the same way, there must be some other way' or he'd call me and say 'i know im not supposed to be calling but i had one more thought i'd like to talk about w/ you...'

 

everything had to be on his terms, and his terms were to continue making me be the OW while he was married. i had to turn it around on him & say these are my terms, like it or lump it. you will feel bad at the moment but its the only thing that will work & then later you'll feel strong, like you FINALLY have some control over your own life & your not just sitting there feeling bad for him, waiting to find out what his decision is, feeling confused, etc. you can just say ADIOS for now at least to him & say hello to yourself & your own peace of mind again.

 

good luck & hugs.

[kellykellykelly]

your guy sounds so much like my (X!)guy... only not as bad, but then again right now i have a very bad view of my XMM.

 

but mine always felt sorry for himself & told me it felt like i was hurting him whenever i said i needed space. its a totally self-centered mentality.

 

if your guys like mine then he is going to feel he has no control when you tell him NC & he is going to want to be part of the 'decision making.' mine kept saying, 'why cant we decide this TOGETHER?' i just had to tell myself (b/c it didnt work to try to tell him anything rational) that we're not really TOGETHER seeing as how hes married to someone else, and thats the whole problem!! i did everything, placated him & made him feel like he was part of the decision, told him im sorry, etc... but nothing worked except being STERN & laying down the law. if i gave him an inch he tried to take a mile. he would say 'ok, i see why we need to not talk until we can be together the right way' and i'd think 'whew!' but then later that night he'd text me with something like 'im so broken up about this, please tell me your feeling the same way, there must be some other way' or he'd call me and say 'i know im not supposed to be calling but i had one more thought i'd like to talk about w/ you...'

 

everything had to be on his terms, and his terms were to continue making me be the OW while he was married. i had to turn it around on him & say these are my terms, like it or lump it. you will feel bad at the moment but its the only thing that will work & then later you'll feel strong, like you FINALLY have some control over your own life & your not just sitting there feeling bad for him, waiting to find out what his decision is, feeling confused, etc. you can just say ADIOS for now at least to him & say hello to yourself & your own peace of mind again.

 

good luck & hugs.

 

Wow! Thank you so much. I really needed to hear that

[kellykellykelly]

I took everyone's advise and let him know about NC. Instead of calling him and hearing his voice, I sent him a text message. That might seem cold of me, but I just couldn't risk it. Today is day 3 of not seeing or speaking to him, and not responding to his messages. I felt so liberated after sending him this text..... now, nine hours later, I feel bad. Like my words were too mean. Wondering what he's doing now, I'm sure he is upset.

 

Me: If you want to be with me, you have to: End it with her for good. Move into a permanent residence where you can bring your kids. Set up regular visitation schedule and stick to it. Start divorce proceedings. Be committed to our relationship and make decisions together that will affect US. I have tried to be understanding and supportive. I have tried to help you and give you ideas. I even offered you a nice place to live, and you moved back home.. You always end up hurting me so everyone else can feel better, including her. I have a lot to offer you or someone and I'm not going to be treated that way anymore. I need to move forward. If you can do all those things, we can move forward together. If you can't, then it's over for good. Please don't contact me unless you are serious and can do those things that minute.

 

Of course he had to respond: Fine... By the way I moved back because YOU told me it was over! I guess you used me the other night.

 

I tried and tried not to reply to him, but I couldn't take it anymore. I'm tired of him always twisting things around. So, I text him back saying: I like how you blame me so you don't have to take responsibility. Blame me so you have a reason to stay with her. It's easier that way.

 

And I haven't heard back from him since. Was I too mean???

 

I felt like I needed to tell him all that I expected, not just file for D.

I wanted to be clear on where I stand. I don't think all those things are too much to ask from your partner. But, did I say to much to him? Does it sound mean? Because that wasn't my intention.

[GPFan]

And I haven't heard back from him since.

Congratulations! You achieved your goal and communicated effectively.

 

 

 

Was I too mean???

No.

[frannie]

I felt like I needed to tell him all that I expected, not just file for D.

I wanted to be clear on where I stand. I don't think all those things are too much to ask from your partner. But, did I say to much to him? Does it sound mean? Because that wasn't my intention.

 

No, you're OK. I think NES is right, yours and her MM sound similar in some respects: you've both used that term 'word-twisting' and that is what they're doing.

 

I think your guy will have got the message now, do you think?

[kellykellykelly]

I made it through the evening last night. I treated myself to a brownie sundae and took my dog for a walk at the park. I watched tv and went to bed around 10:30.

 

This morning there are 2 text messages from him. The first was at 12:53 am, it said "I'm out front. Can I sleep over??" The second, 5 minutes later, said, "OK. Take care..."

 

I didn't reply to either. I was sleeping Thank God!

 

HELLOOOOO???????

 

His first message is hoping I would let him in to sleep over, which would diminish my request for NC. He would most likely make a bunch of promises of how he is 'gonna' leave, then he would get up this morning and leave to go attend to "family business" and I would be back in the same old predicament. Also, it would start a fight between him and his W (she will be mad at him, then he can turn it around and blame her, then he has an excuse to leave.... or scare her.) Why can't the guy just be honest and quit being such a manipulator?

 

His second message is an obvious scare tactic. "OK. Take care..." OK. If your not going to let me in, you'll never see me again...

 

And I want to be with this guy because...............???

[frannie]

Looks like it will take some time for it to sink in, eh?

[Owl]

I say send him one more text...

 

"If you attempt to contact me in any fashion again, I will fwd every communication I've rcvd from you straight to your wife. Take a hint already."

[whichwayisup]

I made it through the evening last night. I treated myself to a brownie sundae and took my dog for a walk at the park. I watched tv and went to bed around 10:30.

Yum. Treat yourself more - It doesn't have to be food, but definately go and pamper yourself!

 

This morning there are 2 text messages from him. The first was at 12:53 am, it said "I'm out front. Can I sleep over??" The second, 5 minutes later, said, "OK. Take care..."

 

Wow. He has some balls.

 

I didn't reply to either. I was sleeping Thank God

 

If you were awake, would you have replied and let him in? IF that happens again, ignore him and post here, or call a friend, that way you're not tempted.

 

His first message is hoping I would let him in to sleep over, which would diminish my request for NC. He would most likely make a bunch of promises of how he is 'gonna' leave, then he would get up this morning and leave to go attend to "family business" and I would be back in the same old predicament. Also, it would start a fight between him and his W (she will be mad at him, then he can turn it around and blame her, then he has an excuse to leave.... or scare her.) Why can't the guy just be honest and quit being such a manipulator?

 

He is testing you to see how much he can get away with - Seeing if he can push your buttons and make you cave. I'm sure in the next few weeks he'll try to contact you with some sort of emergency, so when that happens, either ignore him or tell him to talk to his wife.

 

His second message is an obvious scare tactic. "OK. Take care..." OK. If your not going to let me in, you'll never see me again...

 

That's him being huffy and purposely trying to make you feel bad and guilty.

And I want to be with this guy because...............???

 

Imagine your life without this drama and heartache. Atleast by ending it you will finally have some closure and be able to heal. Sure it'll be painful, but it is FINAL and not continuious like it's been for a while. NO more up's and down's on the rollercoaster.

[kellykellykelly]

So, this morning at 7:44am, he resent his message from last night "I'm out front. Can I sleep over?" I know I should have just ignored it, but I didn't.

I text back, "What's that supposed to mean?" He didn't reply.

So, an hour later I text him again (like a dummy!) "It meant nothing...apparently." Haven't heard from him all day.

 

I'm starting to see how really NC is best for me, because I'm a wreck right now, and I keep checking my phone. Wondering what he is doing. GOD!!!

 

I just want to tell him how awful and miserable I have felt for so long and physically and mentally I can't take anymore. That it's not a joke. That he's choosing to stay with her so it's over with us, and it seems really mean and ruthless that he keeps contacting me because of the emotional spiral it puts me into. It's almost like I'm a hurt dog and from a distance he keeps poking me with stick just to be mean. I don't think he is trying to be mean, but he doesn't realize the serious pain he is inflicting on me. It's starting to piss me off. Seriously.............I feel nauseated right now and am going to take a nap. He is probably out on this beautiful day playing golf w his friends..........carefree. Lately I've been sleeping more so the time will go by faster and so I don't have to think. MF'er!

[Owl]

You want the texts to end? See my earlier post...start forwarding them on to his wife.

 

"That'll shut him up!"

[neverendingsaga]

I think NES is right, yours and her MM sound similar in some respects: you've both used that term 'word-twisting' and that is what they're doing.

 

its CRAZY how similar our MMs are kelly. after i broke off the A b/c he wasnt getting D'ed or doing anything but letting things be same old same old, he kept contacting me & contacting me. i should have resisted but i was not as strong/ smart back then. i finally gave in & started talking to him again... only to find out (by snooping, b/c he was being evasive & lying to me) that he was living w/ his W again. and AFTER he apologized for lying to me, he still gave me the same line yours did: 'i moved back in w/ her b/c you told me it was over.'

 

ok pelican is right, these guys are def. mama's boys... go run back to mama/ wifey when your OW gets sick of your childish behavior. you are right to say WHY do you want him?? i ask myself the same thing. this man goes back to his W as a back-up (or so he claims) after i dump him b/c he wasnt following his words to me w/ actions. then he tries to blame HIS decision to go back home on ME. craziness.

 

kelly both our guys had the chance/ choice to be w/ us but instead are with there wives. we deserve better- men who know what they want & do what they say.

[Mino]

I understand what your going through, I been there too. Twice. First off, I dont think he is playing you.. I do think he wants to be with you. He would not have made the attempt to leave. But their is a thing called guilt, when children are involved. I cant imagine the pain of walking out on your children. Especially at that age, when they know whats going on. Money seems like its a problem too. There are no cheap apartment in nice areas, and him having to continue keeping the main home front going, plus a second one is tough, especially if the wife is not bringing home an income. The problem I see , was there was no plan. he moved out to quickly without thinking about all the small stuff. Emotionally he was also not ready. I suggest you suggest to him getting into IC, to deal with his guilt. Maybe he and his wife should go to mc also to figure out what to do next. Go NC , stay out while he figures out his head, and marriage, and if he does move out again, he needs a plan, seeing the kids at your house, would not be an option, since wife will not agree to this. Bt give him some credit,I dont think he is lying, but being honest with you how he feels, Its not as black and white as some people put it on this board,