I just made the call to H...

[stampdaddy]

Stamp, the Friday visit (and everything else you've described about her) indicates to me that she is addicted to the drama of it all. She has no self-control; that's a big red flag in my book. IMO she is a real piece of work! There's no guarantee that even if you guys end up together, the drama wouldn't continue. I personally think you're way better off without her. Who needs it?!??

I might just come to those same conclusions myself... And yes, she IS out of control.. But the "control" she HAD , has now just been taken away and given to her H and to ME...

[norajane]

Under those circumstances, I felt PITY for her.. Someone suggested that she has just about hit her personal "Rock Bottom".

 

See the thing is, she knows that I am now FREE.. I can go on, she can't. She is so worried about me meeting someone new. OH WELL. But it is not like I am going to go out this weekend and pick up a few "hood rats". I am going to find ME again

 

Loss of respect, pity...you're well on your way to recovery.

 

She hasn't reached rock bottom yet. She won't reach that point until AFTER she realizes she has no hold on you anymore and there's no point in coming to see you or trying to call you. She hasn't accepted it yet that you aren't going to be there for her anymore. AND that SHE put herself in that position through her own choices and actions. Once she does, once she takes a good hard look in the mirror and accepts that SHE is responsible for her the way her life is - that you are 'free' and she is not, by her own choice - then she'll hit rock bottom.

[stampdaddy]

Loss of respect, pity...you're well on your way to recovery.

 

She hasn't reached rock bottom yet. She won't reach that point until AFTER she realizes she has no hold on you anymore and there's no point in coming to see you or trying to call you. She hasn't accepted it yet that you aren't going to be there for her anymore. AND that SHE put herself in that position through her own choices and actions. Once she does, once she takes a good hard look in the mirror and accepts that SHE is responsible for her the way her life is - that you are 'free' and she is not, by her own choice - then she'll hit rock bottom.

so you are suggesting that all of these "we are overs" are not for real? That she'll be back after some time? That from what I am gathering, H has finally had enough and will be divorcing her, and THEN I wont be blamed by her for her mess? I guess this will be a new chapter for 'ol Stamp-diddy. can't wait

[allbetternow]

so you are suggesting that all of these "we are overs" are not for real? That she'll be back after some time? That from what I am gathering, H has finally had enough and will be divorcing her, and THEN I wont be blamed by her for her mess? I guess this will be a new chapter for 'ol Stamp-diddy. can't wait

 

From reading all of your posts, there have been a whole lot of "we are overs". Until you refuse her calls and don't answer the door when she drops by, she will always think you are still there. Like OB mentioned, sounds like she thrives off of drama. If you refuse to react to her drama, and enforce your own NC with her, thats when she will realize you aren't there for her anymore, and will truly hit rock bottom. I think that is what it will take for her to really reflect on what she is responsible for and what she has lost..

[stampdaddy]

From reading all of your posts, there have been a whole lot of "we are overs". Until you refuse her calls and don't answer the door when she drops by, she will always think you are still there. Like OB mentioned, sounds like she thrives off of drama. If you refuse to react to her drama, and enforce your own NC with her, thats when she will realize you aren't there for her anymore, and will truly hit rock bottom. I think that is what it will take for her to really reflect on what she is responsible for and what she has lost..

Well, she leaves for Florida in the morning, and then her kids are off for Spring Break.. So I have good 2 weeks of built in NC... Then the spring will be here and knowing that her "golf buddy" is teeing it up without her will hurt her as well... The feeling I get is that I am confused to what I actually WANT, but am very confident that I will figure it out... I sure don't hope I get the "OK, I'm free now" call, and she's moved out into a little apartment, hardly making any money, etc.. NOW WILL YOU LET ME BACK???

[nadiaj2727]

Stampdaddy,

Hi, I haven't posted much in your threads. This is because when I read them, I get really frustrated that you continue to stay in this situation and I have no advice for you except "forget about her, move on." I'm sure that some on here would criticize me for telling you to "get over it" so easily, so I haven't posted anything. But now that you made this big step, I wanted to say congratulations and I hope you can really move on now. I am not saying it is easy -- I am saying you need to forget about her and move on, no matter how hard it is. I'm glad you've followed your heart (or, rather, brain-- as I realize that part of your heart still wants to be with her) and the advice of those on here that have said to forget about her. I'm glad you told her H and went NC. Now you have to *stay* NC.

 

I agree with openbook who said that MW craves drama. She will continue this again and again if you let her. Now that you went NC, you have to keep it, or she won't believe you and she will keep coming back into your life and dragging you into her drama and misery. She can't just show up at your house and have a confusing touchy-feely conversation with you in your own house unless YOU allow it. Don't be part of her drama anymore. Just stay NC.

 

Aoife- this is kind of a t/j but I just saw your posts where you are frustrated at those who seem to be holding SD's hand too much. I can understand this, that's why I didn't post in SD's thread -- I thought that plenty of people had given SD good advice (go NC) and it was up to him to take the advice or not. I would get frustrated when people gave him practical advice and then he would be back saying "I'm still with her..." But SD is different than a lot of posters on here who ask for advice when really all they want is validation of their own decisions, which they will later come back and moan about. SD doesn't really want empty validation, he wants the hard truth... he just might not be ready to follow it sometimes. In my opinion SD really wants objective advice, not hand-holding, and he really wants to take the advice... the frustrating part is when MW comes back again and again and plays with his heart, and he lets her. It's like a cycle that continues and yes it can be very frustrating to read about. This is why I don't usually read or reply to many of SD's threads, because I'm like "oh my goodness, it's happening all over again, still." I am not trying to be mean to you SD, I am just saying, this is what happens with MW until you keep NC for good. You seem to realize that.

 

Aoife, I feel that you, along with SD, are one of the few OP who honestly realizes you need to get out of your affair and you want advice on how to do that. You want support to be strong, while as others, in my opinion, want support to continue being weak. Some people come here because they want to continue their affair and they want "support" while they do it, which I guess means shoulders to cry on when they're faced with all this misery, or continued offerings of hope that everything will turn out okay. I have learned that if someone doesn't like what you say, they will ignore you or lash out at you and you know what? I don't really give a crap, this is just an Internet forum and I am just here to share my experiences and help those who are tired of being OW. Yes I have a bias-- my "support" is in the form of saying "Step up and be strong and independent and stop dating a man who is married to someone else." A lot of people don't like that and I don't really care. I don't care because when I *was* OW the opinions I valued the most were people who said that to me and I remember them to this day -- WWIU, ICEAICE, LB, IO, BNB -- there are others... no matter what their "agenda" or "bias" was, they consistently told me that it was not good for me or anyone else to be involved with a married man, over and over until I finally believed it and did something about it. So I want to be one of those voices and I don't care one bit about the ones who think that support means listening to all of this sad sob drama without every saying, "Ummm, I think it might be time for you to get out of this?" I learned not to take some posters personally and if you stick around, you will too. Honestly you will probably laugh at some of the completely selfish and ridiculous posts you see here, and you will be really glad you got yourself out of such a crazy situation.

 

But anyway SD is cool in that he actually appreciates everyone's feedback and never gets mean or nasty when he's told something he doesn't like to hear. I understand how you can see some posters as holding his hand and saying "well, you are still wallowing about the affair, it's okay." But I also think he is one of the few that really wants out of the affair. It is just taking some time for him to be able to do what really needs to be done to end it for good. I believe it was WhiteFlower who once said that mostly everyone comes to realize they want to end an affair, it just has to be when they're ready, on their own timing. (I apologize if I mis-attributed or mis-quoted this statement... it was something like that and I think it's true: you can't make anyone do anything, even if they are here asking you for advice.) All you can do is give them your best advice and your best wishes, and hope they are strong enough to make their own decisions. Oftentimes people say "thanks for the great advice" or "you are so mean for not supporting me"... but really what they say in response doesn't matter, if they are back saying "MM is causing me so much pain, what should I do?"... you can't be frustrated at their reaction to your advice or whether or not they take it. Just like with MMs, all that matters is their ACTIONS, and once in awhile you see posters saying "thanks for the advice, I have been NC from MM for 3 months and I am so glad I made that decision." Then you know that someone has listened to and appreciated your advice, when they were good and ready to do so.

[nadiaj2727]

so you are suggesting that all of these "we are overs" are not for real? That she'll be back after some time? That from what I am gathering, H has finally had enough and will be divorcing her, and THEN I wont be blamed by her for her mess? I guess this will be a new chapter for 'ol Stamp-diddy. can't wait

 

Well now that I've started posting in your thread SD I guess I can't stop LOL

 

Would you really want to be her back-up plan? It sounds from this post like you're excited about that possibility, although I could be misinterpreting it.

 

I think you should only be with her if she takes some action -- including risks and consequences -- to be with you, NOT because her husband finally got tired of her antics and dumped her. Or honestly I think you will just take her husband's place and someone else with take your place, as it seems she just likes to use people to escape from herself and share in all her drama with her. The only way you two could ever work, in my opinion, is if, like norajane said, she takes personal responsibility for her actions, does a lot of self-reflection and realize she wants to change and she wants to be with you and be faithful to you no matter what it takes to do that. From everything I've read from you about her, it sounds like that won't happen even after pigs fly. I'm sorry to be harsh but that's my honest opinion -- this woman doesn't care about anyone but herself, and about how you, her husband, and who knows who else eventually, makes her feel about herself.

[norajane]

so you are suggesting that all of these "we are overs" are not for real? That she'll be back after some time? That from what I am gathering, H has finally had enough and will be divorcing her, and THEN I wont be blamed by her for her mess? I guess this will be a new chapter for 'ol Stamp-diddy. can't wait

 

No. I'm suggesting that she has not hit her personal rock bottom. And she won't until she 'mans up' and realizes she is responsible for the huge giant mess she's made of her life. Then, she'll hit rock bottom.

 

Do I think when she hits rock bottom that she'll get a divorce and call you? Well, I don't think she's ever going to hit rock bottom because she never will take that good hard look in the mirror and accept that she is responsible for the huge giant mess she's made of her life.

 

So, I believe she will continue to reach out to you for as long as you let her, to see if she can continue to get what she wants from you without getting a divorce. You know, like, maybe if you miss her soooo much after a couple of weeks of NC that maybe you'll take her back.

 

And if her husband is the one to divorce her, she'll blame you both for the big huge mess she's made of her life, and she'll see if she can land another man to take care of her. She might try you first, to see if you're still hooked on the line.

Edited March 3, 2008 by norajane

[stampdaddy]

Well now that I've started posting in your thread SD I guess I can't stop LOL

 

Would you really want to be her back-up plan? It sounds from this post like you're excited about that possibility, although I could be misinterpreting it.

 

I think you should only be with her if she takes some action -- including risks and consequences -- to be with you, NOT because her husband finally got tired of her antics and dumped her. Or honestly I think you will just take her husband's place and someone else with take your place, as it seems she just likes to use people to escape from herself and share in all her drama with her. The only way you two could ever work, in my opinion, is if, like norajane said, she takes personal responsibility for her actions, does a lot of self-reflection and realize she wants to change and she wants to be with you and be faithful to you no matter what it takes to do that. From everything I've read from you about her, it sounds like that won't happen even after pigs fly. I'm sorry to be harsh but that's my honest opinion -- this woman doesn't care about anyone but herself, and about how you, her husband, and who knows who else eventually, makes her feel about herself.

NO, I would not want to be her back up plan.. I told her a couple of weeks ago that this relationship can only go 2 ways from this point.

1) I quit, which is what I am doing OR 2) you get kicked out because HE got tired of it all.. Either way, AFTER either of these 2 things happening, and it was 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years, and you came back, what good would I be to you, because either 1) you'd be wondering "why is he here with me?" OR 2) I would be wondering why is she here with me?" NEITHER WORK FOR ME

[Meaplus3]

NO, I would not want to be her back up plan.. I told her a couple of weeks ago that this relationship can only go 2 ways from this point.

1) I quit, which is what I am doing OR 2) you get kicked out because HE got tired of it all.. Either way, AFTER either of these 2 things happening, and it was 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years, and you came back, what good would I be to you, because either 1) you'd be wondering "why is he here with me?" OR 2) I would be wondering why is she here with me?" NEITHER WORK FOR ME

 

Stamp, You have the right attitude here.. NO one should be a back up plan ever.. it's not honest. Gosh..just stay strong..You can do it..

 

AP:)

[allbetternow]

Well, she leaves for Florida in the morning, and then her kids are off for Spring Break.. So I have good 2 weeks of built in NC... Then the spring will be here and knowing that her "golf buddy" is teeing it up without her will hurt her as well... The feeling I get is that I am confused to what I actually WANT, but am very confident that I will figure it out... I sure don't hope I get the "OK, I'm free now" call, and she's moved out into a little apartment, hardly making any money, etc.. NOW WILL YOU LET ME BACK???

 

Thats where you are conflicted. You say "you sure hope you don't get the OK I'm free now call"... but I believe from your posts that part of you hopes that is exactly what happens. Again, I am not criticizing. Just trying to help you see that your actions conflict with your words. Continuing to see her indicates that you want her to leave and come to you. I think you are doing a good job of seeing that you may not be happy if that happens, but if you have NC and start feeling better about yourself, you may actually start to believe that you can find someone new who is better, and that you deserve better, and actually enforce NC when she tries to contact you. Thats what it is going to take. I think you are on the right track, you actually have to believe these words you are typing here and act upon them before change will happen. Like others, its been frustrating for me to read your posts as you continue to go back for more. I understand that its because you love her. Most of us here have been there...

[nadiaj2727]

NO, I would not want to be her back up plan.. I told her a couple of weeks ago that this relationship can only go 2 ways from this point.

1) I quit, which is what I am doing OR 2) you get kicked out because HE got tired of it all.. Either way, AFTER either of these 2 things happening, and it was 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years, and you came back, what good would I be to you, because either 1) you'd be wondering "why is he here with me?" OR 2) I would be wondering why is she here with me?" NEITHER WORK FOR ME

 

I am very glad to hear that. That is the perfect long-term goal. In the meantime, day by day and minute by minute, your short-term goal should be to NOT talk to her or allow yourself any contact with her, no matter what.

[stampdaddy]

Thats where you are conflicted. You say "you sure hope you don't get the OK I'm free now call"... but I believe from your posts that part of you hopes that is exactly what happens. Again, I am not criticizing. Just trying to help you see that your actions conflict with your words. Continuing to see her indicates that you want her to leave and come to you. I think you are doing a good job of seeing that you may not be happy if that happens, but if you have NC and start feeling better about yourself, you may actually start to believe that you can find someone new who is better, and that you deserve better, and actually enforce NC when she tries to contact you. Thats what it is going to take. I think you are on the right track, you actually have to believe these words you are typing here and act upon them before change will happen. Like others, its been frustrating for me to read your posts as you continue to go back for more. I understand that its because you love her. Most of us here have been there...

Don't get frustrated with me, I AM admitting that I am very confused.. Like now, I jus walked downstairs to grab a glass of wine, the fire is on, and all I could imagine is her walking through that door like she used to... I'd have her glass poured and so on...

[Tomcat33]

You say "you sure hope you don't get the OK I'm free now call"... but I believe from your posts that part of you hopes that is exactly what happens. Again, I am not criticizing. Just trying to help you see that your actions conflict with your words. Continuing to see her indicates that you want her to leave and come to you. I think you are doing a good job of seeing that you may not be happy if that happens, but if you have NC and start feeling better about yourself, you may actually start to believe that you can find someone new who is better, and that you deserve better, and actually enforce NC when she tries to contact you. Thats what it is going to take. I think you are on the right track, you actually have to believe these words you are typing here and act upon them before change will happen. Like others, its been frustrating for me to read your posts as you continue to go back for more. I understand that its because you love her. Most of us here have been there...

 

So what's the problem if he is contradicting himself? He is knee deep in contradiction, SO WHAT? It is completely natural to feel this way. And he may flip flop back and forth some more and contradict his words VS actions again and maybe one, two 10 more times. Ok. And? Everyone deals with crisis differently.

 

But what some of the more hardcore "GET OVER IT ALREADY" types who claim to be very frustrated to read this thread, fail to see is that if you compare to where he was when he first started posting here he has made considerable progress. It may not be where some of you would want him to be, or where HE even needs to be (some speak as if he were the guinnea pig of humanity or a human sized lab rat) BUT despite his flippant posts and back and forth he IS making progress and he is in the process of letting go.

 

Letting go IS a process, failing to lose sight of that is setting yourself up for failure. Personally I see progress not failure. I don't see why he should be anywhere else today, given the turn of events that have happened only a few days ago I think he is dead smack where he needs to be. This is the reality of what this situation evokes.

 

I know we live in a time of frozen meal in a box and instant coffee but if you take a breather and focus on the positives instead of the negatives you might just find this thread not all that frustrating to read.

 

And lastly hand holding might be all someone needs sometimes.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Tomcat33

[nadiaj2727]

So what's the problem if he is contradicting himself? He is knee deep in contradiction, SO WHAT? It is completely natural to feel this way. And he may flip flop back and forth some more and contradict his words VS actions again and maybe one, two 10 more times. Ok. And? Everyone deals with crisis differently.

 

But what some of the more hardcore "GET OVER IT ALREADY" types who claim to be very frustrated to read this thread, fail to see is that if you compare to where he was when he first started posting here he has made considerable progress. It may not be where some of you would want him to be, or where HE even needs to be (some speak as if he were the guinnea pig of humanity or a human sized lab rat) BUT despite his flippant posts and back and forth he IS making progress and he is in the process of letting go.

 

Letting go IS a process, failing to lose sight of that is setting yourself up for failure. Personally I see progress not failure. I don't see why he should be anywhere else today, given the turn of events that have happened only a few days ago I think he is dead smack where he needs to be. This is the reality of what this situation evokes.

 

I know we live in a time of frozen meal in a box and instant coffee but if you take a breather and focus on the positives instead of the negatives you might just find this thread not all that frustrating to read.

 

And lastly hand holding might be all someone needs sometimes.

 

I didn't say "get over it already", in fact I said I know it's hard and he is taking his time but it is what he needs to do. You completely misread my post if you were referring to me, but it doesn't matter to me, my advice remains the same. I would be frustrated with anyone who still lingers over "love" for someone who treats them so badly. Whether it was my own brother or whoever. I would give them the same advice -- move on, forget her, she is no good for you. That advice isn't hand holding and I fail to see how "all" Stampdaddy needs is hand holding... what good would that do?

 

And I don't mean to be Debbie Downer but he is already talking to her and already missing her... I fear he will be back to talking to her again all the time and then what is the progress?? I see very small signs of progress but as I said it seems to be a cycle and I will not be convinced until he breaks the cycle completely, which takes strength and courage, not wallowing and hand-holding. I think that the advice he needs is to focus on himself and his own life and leave her out of it... so that is the advice I give him. If you want to hold his hand TomCat, you go ahead and do it. I won't be doing it. I will give him advice I think is actually useful.

[allbetternow]

Gosh....If you read my post again, you'll see that I am not criticizing at all and explained that we have been there and understand that he is conflicted. I think I also said I thought he was on the right track. We are all trying to help from our past experiences. Mine past experience ended when I started facing what was real and not living in denial.

[nadiaj2727]

Gosh....If you read my post again, you'll see that I am not criticizing at all and explained that we have been there and understand that he is conflicted. I think I also said I thought he was on the right track. We are all trying to help from our past experiences. Mine past experience ended when I started facing what was real and not living in denial.

 

I think TomCat read both of our posts wrong. I was saying the same thing...we have all been there and we are trying to show him the way out.

[allbetternow]

I didn't say "get over it already", in fact I said I know it's hard and he is taking his time but it is what he needs to do. You completely misread my post if you were referring to me, but it doesn't matter to me, my advice remains the same. I would be frustrated with anyone who still lingers over "love" for someone who treats them so badly. Whether it was my own brother or whoever. I would give them the same advice -- move on, forget her, she is no good for you. That advice isn't hand holding and I fail to see how "all" Stampdaddy needs is hand holding... what good would that do?

 

And I don't mean to be Debbie Downer but he is already talking to her and already missing her... I fear he will be back to talking to her again all the time and then what is the progress?? I see very small signs of progress but as I said it seems to be a cycle and I will not be convinced until he breaks the cycle completely, which takes strength and courage, not wallowing and hand-holding. I think that the advice he needs is to focus on himself and his own life and leave her out of it... so that is the advice I give him. If you want to hold his hand TomCat, you go ahead and do it. I won't be doing it. I will give him advice I think is actually useful.

 

Yes!! Hand holding is the same as co-dependency. A bunch of people telling you its ok. Its not ok. You deserve better. This takes tough love. Dr. Phil type stuff. Or at least it did in my case. I am 100% with you.

[stampdaddy]

STOP!!! lets not do this.. I am TRYING. I dont need "hand holding" and most of you know this. I am CONFUSED. But EVERYBODY here is helping me. It is working, and YES, I don't like that it's working, BUT IT IS.

 

I will get there, no doubt about it, because I AM STAMPDADDY!

[nadiaj2727]

So what's the problem if he is contradicting himself? He is knee deep in contradiction, SO WHAT? It is completely natural to feel this way. And he may flip flop back and forth some more and contradict his words VS actions again and maybe one, two 10 more times. Ok. And? Everyone deals with crisis differently..

 

 

The problem with contradicting himself is that the first step to breaking the cycle is deciding what he wants and the second step is going after it. Otherwise, if he is unsure, he will be back at square one, and there will be no progress until he decides what he really wants. Yes, everyone reacts to crises differently, but in my opinion unless SD decides to STOP letting this MW hurt him, and he refuses to participate in her deceptive actions anymore, then he is in part responsible for continuing his own crises. So I do not agree with you that this kind of waffling and self-contradiction is "normal" or healthy for SD. If he thinks it is, then fine, but then again, I doubt he would be posting here about his indecision and sounding so upset and confused if he thought it was healthy for him.

[stampdaddy]

The problem with contradicting himself is that the first step to breaking the cycle is deciding what he wants and the second step is going after it. Otherwise, if he is unsure, he will be back at square one, and there will be no progress until he decides what he really wants. Yes, everyone reacts to crises differently, but in my opinion unless SD does decides to STOP letting this MW hurt him, and he refuses to participate in her deceptive actions anymore, then he is in part responsible for continuing his own crises. So I do not agree with you that this kind of waffling and self-contradiction is "normal" or healthy for SD. If he thinks it is, then fine, but then again, I doubt he would be posting here about his indecision and sounding so upset and confused if he thought it was healthy for him.

It IS normal to be where I am, if you LOVE someone and then it's all gone. And NO it is not healthy, and NO i do not want to be here... I wan to be playing golf, if would just warm up already!!!

[whichwayisup]

Stamps has time on his side and I'm sure within the next few weeks things will be abit more clear.

 

Everyone has their 'enough' moment and it's different for each person. One can't push SD or anyone into knowing when enough is enough.

[nadiaj2727]

Yes!! Hand holding is the same as co-dependency. A bunch of people telling you its ok. Its not ok. You deserve better. This takes tough love. Dr. Phil type stuff. Or at least it did in my case. I am 100% with you.

 

At least someone is, LOL. I needed tough love, so I give tough love. I don't understand what the huge argument is all about.

 

Sorry SD I posted my last response the same time you were posting yours that said "Stop." So I will stop trying to explain how I am supporting you and not holding your hand. I'm bowing out now, good luck!

[allbetternow]

At least someone is, LOL. I needed tough love, so I give tough love. I don't understand what the huge argument is all about.

 

Sorry SD I posted my last response the same time you were posting yours that said "Stop." So I will stop trying to explain how I am supporting you and not holding your hand. I'm bowing out now, good luck!

 

I'm bowing out too. Good luck SD. Take care of your kids.

[stampdaddy]

thanks girls..