I got accepted to Law School!

[StillSame]

What I am saying is that:

 

1) Forced curve will be used. Meaning certain percentage of students will have GPA under 2.0.

 

2) Tier 4 law schools have lower median grades (That's how it is, probably, purposely used to weed out certain number of students).

 

3) Certain tier 4 schools weed out certain consistent percent of students annually.

 

With the above three (probably) correct asumptions, the chance of someone choosing to attending a tier 4 law school end up dropping out is higher than someone who choose to attend a Tier 3, 2 or 1 school.

[RecordProducer]

1) Forced curve will be used. Meaning certain percentage of students will have GPA under 2.0.

No, this is not true. If 25% of students qualify for an A and 75% qualify for a B, that's the way they are going to be graded. The faculty will NOT create an artificial curve for the purpose of ranking students at all cost and forcing 25-40% out of their school.

 

2) Tier 4 law schools have lower median grades (That's how it is, probably, purposely used to weed out certain number of students).

I see that you're convinced that their main goal is to "weed out" a certain number of students. It's not! Their (and every professional school's) interest is to remove the bad apples. If the lowest-ranked student is good enough to obtain a GPA of 2.9, he is not going to be kicked out of the school.

 

Actually, I found this article about Western State Law School:

 

Orange County's oldest law school won provisional approval from the ABA in 1998. In 2003, the ABA's Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar recommended that the college lose its status because of low test scores and a high dropout rate.

http://www.lawschool.com/lat-wsu.htm

 

As you can note, a high drop-out rate means that the school risks to lose its ABA accreditation.

 

 

3) Certain tier 4 schools weed out certain consistent percent of students annually.

Who wouldn't agree with such a precise statement? Certain (consistent) number of women die during labor in certain number of hospitals.

 

With the above three (probably) correct asumptions, the chance of someone choosing to attending a tier 4 law school end up dropping out is higher than someone who choose to attend a Tier 3, 2 or 1 school.

With my - not probably, but definitely correct - assumptions, the student who chooses NOT to study has a 100% chance of dropping out of law school.

 

With all the ("probably correct") assumptions and facts you're spilling out, I think you should introduce the nature of your competency to assert this matter. Are you in the legal field or do you just know someone who knows someone who dropped out of law school?

[Green]

What I am saying is that:

 

1) Forced curve will be used. Meaning certain percentage of students will have GPA under 2.0.

 

2) Tier 4 law schools have lower median grades (That's how it is, probably, purposely used to weed out certain number of students).

 

3) Certain tier 4 schools weed out certain consistent percent of students annually.

 

With the above three (probably) correct asumptions, the chance of someone choosing to attending a tier 4 law school end up dropping out is higher than someone who choose to attend a Tier 3, 2 or 1 school.

 

that still makes no sense, your using the statistic to argue that going to a crappy school will make her more likely to fail, when the reality is a crappy school is more likely to accept people who end up failing. and being in a curve with idiots could only make her grade better in comparison. Though I think she should go to the best ABA accredited school she gets in to. but alot of pressure is off from here foward she now knows she has the option to go to law school if she wants. not every one who wants to go to law school even gets accepted so shes one large step closer to her dream career. I personaly think its horible what Stargazer is doing, even though I doubt she means harm.

[Missy27]

:bunny: CONGRATUALTIONS RP !! :bunny:

 

I was wondering about you the other day ~ I'm so pleased for you ~ you really do deserve this after all you've been through in the past months.

 

At the end of the day ~ the world is full of IF'S and MAYBE'S ~ but I prefer to take more of a philosophical view on things ~ if you work hard enough for something ~ you WILL be rewarded ~ in whatever shape or form that might take ~ your destiny comes from the foundations you choose to lay in life ~ you'll be fine RP ~ starting off with a positive attitude is priceless ~ believe me

 

Dont take too much notice of SS ~ her/his statistics and presumptions are quite often more than a little flakey and her perspective seems to veer towards the negative ~ ~ read some of her other posts (I think she also posted under the name BestAdvisor at one point)

 

ANYWAY ~~ enough of that ~ fair play to you RP ~ I'll Definitely raise a glass for you tonight ~ !!

Edited January 30, 2008 by Missy27

[justpassingthrough]

No, this is not true. If 25% of students qualify for an A and 75% qualify for a B, that's the way they are going to be graded. The faculty will NOT create an artificial curve for the purpose of ranking students at all cost and forcing 25-40% out of their school.

 

I think the point SS is trying to make is that upper-higher education is, essentially, similar to a private club, a private club in which the members get to decide who joins. It doesn't matter whether it's a doctor school, or a lawyer school, or a Student of Plato school, they are very much looking for specific skills and traits, and, I believe, talent. Don't forget that every potential admission is also a potential faculty member because one never knows where their education will truly take them.

 

So are there forced/artificial curves? Of course there are. Weeding out is, quite simply, a given.

 

Meanwhile, congratulations are certainly in order. Please let us know as you receive other acceptance letters because the only institutions that are off the table are those that have said so.

[RecordProducer]

:bunny: CONGRATULATIONS RP !! :bunny:

 

I was wondering about you the other day ~ I'm so pleased for you ~ you really do deserve this after all you've been through in the past months.

Thank you very much, Missy and everyone.

 

Regarding the question that SS raised, I think it's time to close that subject. A person who is ambitious, hard-working, realistic, intelligent, has good credentials and high motivation to succeed has no business fearing the worst-case scenario. My success will depend on me. In the meanwhile, I will keep fearing only the things that I can't influence.

 

But speaking of being realistic, I have to mention some posts that I read on a forum. A law student says: "I was extremely excited about going to law school, and after suffering through the LSAT, I thought the worst was over." Apparently, anyone who thinks that the hard work is over at the moment of enrollment is going to have a rude awakening in the very first semester of law school.

 

Another student wrote: "And if you're like me -- an English major who likes movies, books, and music -- you will find little of interest in legal subject matter. I find all the various areas of the law tedious, boring, uninspiring, and mind numbing."

 

Movies, books, and music?! People who think that everything in life should be easy and fun and who can't discern the difference between a "hobby" and a "job" are good candidates for major disappointments. The had-I-known-law-school-would-be-so-difficult-I-would-not-have-applied profile of students doesn't belong in law school or medical school or anything that demands sacrifice. The majority of drop-outs quit voluntarily! They are not stupid because they lack IQ; they are stupid because they think that law school is a vacation.

Edited January 30, 2008 by RecordProducer

[KenzieAbsolutely]

 

Another student wrote: "And if you're like me -- an English major who likes movies, books, and music -- you will find little of interest in legal subject matter. I find all the various areas of the law tedious, boring, uninspiring, and mind numbing."

 

Movies, books, and music?! People who think that everything in life should be easy and fun and who can't discern the difference between a "hobby" and a "job" are good candidates for major disappointments.

 

that is one person's opinion.

 

what concerns me the most about this statement is assuming a person can't juggle both hobbies and a job, and if they like things like 'movies, books and music', they must be challenged idiots who take the easy way out.

 

for some, those words are interchangeable. some people's hobbies are other people's jobs, and likewise.

 

and still, some of us love those things, as well as an entire host of other things, and manage to enjoy them and still find time to kick ass in law school. so, yeah.

 

good luck.

Edited January 30, 2008 by KenzieAbsolutely

[RecordProducer]

for some, those words are interchangeable. some people's hobbies are other people's jobs, and likewise.

Creation and consumption of art or any goods are two different things. I love cheese, but don't wish to buy a cow and make my own cheese. If you like movies, books or music, you better be able to create them, go through the pain of producing them, be able to market them and fight with the fierce competition and the "gods" in the publishing/show business. Otherwise, you're just a consumer. Paying and being paid are the opposite poles on the scale of effort; the (under)paid party sweats to provide the goods, while the buyer gets it on a silver plate.

 

I've learned that in life you will always get less than you think you deserve. And you will NEVER get anything on a silver plate for free. If it appears to be free, it means you will pay later - with interest! The good news is that it's exactly the difficult times in life when we strain our capabilities and become creative. No challenge - no movement.

 

and still, some of us love those things, as well as an entire host of other things, and manage to enjoy them and still find time to kick ass in law school. so, yeah.

good luck.

Thanks. I will benefit from some luck with the future responses from other schools. Are you in law school?

[Curmudgeon]

I'm not at all surprised. It's what you wanted. It's what you did. I knew you would!

 

Congratulations, RP. Let the good times roll.

[RecordProducer]

SS, I found something that confirms your assertion about the rate of expelled students. This is just for one school though. St. Thomas University in Miami actually got sued by one of his students. I didn't apply to that school anyway, but I know a person who attends first year in that school as we speak.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1157030383798

[Green]

the story makes no sense. The guy had a B, two C+'s and two C's and then an aditional C+ his second semester... those are pretty good grades...

[norajane]

the story makes no sense. The guy had a B, two C+'s and two C's and then an aditional C+ his second semester... those are pretty good grades...

 

No, pretty good grades are a string of A's and B's. Those are pretty average grades.

 

The school's bar was a 2.5 GPA. His grades gave him a 2.4, or lower if a C+ is calculated below 2.5, which a + grade often is.

 

The school has since changed their bar to a 2.0 average, a C average.

 

 

Don't worry, RP. They can't kick you out when you get all A's and B's.

[Green]

No, pretty good grades are a string of A's and B's. Those are pretty average grades.

 

The school's bar was a 2.5 GPA. His grades gave him a 2.4, or lower if a C+ is calculated below 2.5, which a + grade often is.

 

The school has since changed their bar to a 2.0 average, a C average.

 

 

Don't worry, RP. They can't kick you out when you get all A's and B's.

 

Alot of schools don't kick you out unless you get below a 1.5 your first semester, so check on that. Getting al A's and B's in law school is definelty something to try for but its insanely hard. If you got 2 A's and 3 B's that would put you in the top 20% at least at alot of law schools. Alot of law schools use a bell curve to artificaly push peoples grades down... so 10% might get straight A's but the other 90 % wont

[KenzieAbsolutely]

the story makes no sense. The guy had a B, two C+'s and two C's and then an aditional C+ his second semester... those are pretty good grades...

 

but they weren't good enough. now that they lowered it to 2.0, which i personally find disappointing at best, should someone with a 1.9 get away with it? when does the line get drawn?

 

getting a's and b's is not insanely hard as someone said, even in a tough law school. you'll do fine, rp.

[Green]

but they weren't good enough. now that they lowered it to 2.0, which i personally find disappointing at best, should someone with a 1.9 get away with it? when does the line get drawn?

 

getting a's and b's is not insanely hard as someone said, even in a tough law school. you'll do fine, rp.

 

Not only is it insanely hard at a school with a bell curve but they would have to kick out over half the law school if that was their standard

[allina]

RP, no matter what the grading/dropping students policies are at the school you choose I am confident that you will succeed. I think that you are much stronger and more driven than the average woman.

[KenzieAbsolutely]

Not only is it insanely hard at a school with a bell curve but they would have to kick out over half the law school if that was their standard

 

okay, well i disagree that it is insanely hard for everyone, and this is my opinion based on my own experience and background with the subject. i never said it was a standard, obviously it's not, so that's not relevant. i'm just saying, you might think it's insanely hard; others will disagree. i am one of the others.

 

once again, rp, you still have yet to hear from other places. you'll do great wherever you are, i know it.

[jerbear]

I went to a pretty good graduate school. I know they would not let me graduate with a 2.0. Some professors do talk to you after you get an B- or lower.

 

Just because there is a written policy does not mean there is no unwritten policy. The student could not get the classes they wanted and therefore gets left behind.

 

I do agree that it is much harder to get into graduate school than to be in it!

[RecordProducer]

I did some googling and discovered that some Big Law firms have recently hired graduates from the school that accepted me. I am talking top 50 US law firms in one of the biggest cities. I also noticed that Big Law from different parts of the US recruit local grads from all tiers. The majority of these lower-tier grads have been in the schools' Journal/Review and some of them have graduated (magna) cum laude. I am not necessarily chasing a Big Law job; as a matter of fact, I'd rather start in a DA's office for the hands-on experience and for other reasons. But I'd like to have a choice in any case.

 

the story makes no sense. The guy had a B, two C+'s and two C's and then an aditional C+ his second semester... those are pretty good grades...

KMT, there's an assumption that St. Thomas had an agenda: they admitted students that didn't belong in law school so they can collect money from them. They admitted X number of students knowing that a quarter of them will be expelled after a year. Their goal was to raise the reputation of the school, but that's NOT how they should do it. E.g. the school that accepted me cut the number of matriculating (enrolling) students so they can weed out those with lower credentials in advance. In this way their LSAT score and GPA will increase little by little. The thing is ABA imposed a rule that schools won't accept students that don't show potential for success.

 

On the other hand, St. Thomas might be innocent. The Dean claims that their attrition rate is no higher than that of other schools (around 10% on average, but it varies). This can certainly be checked at court and I believe the Dean knows better than the student. His attorney would have to prove that the people who didn't have potential for law school (LSAT below 140-145, GPA below 2.0) were precisely the ones that were expelled. If it turns out that those with the lowest credentials were decent students and those with decent GPA's and LSAT scores did poorly - the student will lose the case, IMO.

 

Furthermore, why would a school kick those people out (in order to raise their bar-passage rate) if that wouldn't help them achieve their goal? Maybe these people really failed. And maybe St. T. pushed them down intentionally with the curve. Who knows?

 

RP, no matter what the grading/dropping students policies are at the school you choose I am confident that you will succeed. I think that you are much stronger and more driven than the average woman.

 

once again, rp, you still have yet to hear from other places. you'll do great wherever you are, i know it.

Thanks, Allina and Kenzie. I sure hope so. Edited January 31, 2008 by RecordProducer

[Star Gazer]

Not only is it insanely hard at a school with a bell curve but they would have to kick out over half the law school if that was their standard

 

I've never heard of a law school that didn't have a curve, at least for the first year courses. I only had 3 classes throughout law school that weren't curved - and two were pass/fail.

 

But I echo Allina's comments - no matter where you go or what you decide, you'll succeed. Just don't incur student loans!!

[amaysngrace]

Congrats to me.

 

Yes Congratulations RP! I am so happy for you. Nobody deserves it more!

[THE THRONE]

Congrats.

 

Just curious, what type of law are you going to specialize in?

[lindya]

Congratulations, RP. I hope you enjoy the course.

[dropdeadlegs]

Asked and answered (post #39)

Congrats.

 

Just curious, what type of law are you going to specialize in?

Thank you very much, guys.

I don't know yet which law I'd like to prcatice, DDL. Maybe business or family law.

 

[RecordProducer]

Thanks, Lyndia, Amaysngrace, and throne.

 

Congrats.

 

Just curious, what type of law are you going to specialize in?

I don't have to specialize in any particular area of law. Once in law school, I will determine what attracts me most, but the majority of students don't take any specializations. Most lawyers don't really choose what they want to do; they just apply for jobs and pick the best package offered. If you could predict the future careers of all applicants, judging by the essays they write, everybody would be saving the underrepresented children, women, immigrants and homeless people. Yet, most of them will end up doing injury, insurance, real estate, and the like.

 

But I echo Allina's comments - no matter where you go or what you decide, you'll succeed. Just don't incur student loans!!

Aw, that's so sweet of you.