Dinner with married colleague

[dylan.h]

Well a husband would be a fool to think that his wife staying out til the wee hours of the morning having drinks and going to dinner like a date is acceptable......cuz it isn't...unless they are swingers.

 

I actually agree with you. I would not be comfortable with this.

 

However I know a lot of people do that (go out and get drunk with a friend of the opposite sex) without necessarily being swingers.

[dylan.h]

Not when its viewed the way you view it...you wanted to go out to dinner because you are attracted to her and enjoy the attention.....thats not a friendship.

 

you don't see the problem in the way this was spawned by you?

 

And sure...I have female friends....but not ones I go out on dates with. I don't go out drinking with them or go out to dinner. And I certainly don't stay out with them til 3am.

 

I don't get it. They're your FRIENDS but you won't have a drink or have dinner with them?

 

I'm attracted to all of my female friends and I accept it. I embrace the fact that male/female friendships have different dynamics.

[dylan.h]

She wants an affair.

 

And if you need to hear from her you just ask her. "Is this moving beyond friendship?"--or something to this effect. Never walk around so clouded with confusion. Just ask. Be disarming. You will know right away from how she responds, even if she tries to downplay it all. She might say "No" at first and then three days later you get an email saying something quite else...

 

You seem to be pretty confident so I assume you have seen this kind of situation before.

 

I've seen cases where an affair starts when the marriage is about to end, but I've never seen the dynamics of an affair when the marriage is in decent shape.

 

I am really confused as so far it seems like just friendship to me.

[OldEurope]

You seem to be pretty confident so I assume you have seen this kind of situation before.

 

I've seen cases where an affair starts when the marriage is about to end, but I've never seen the dynamics of an affair when the marriage is in decent shape.

 

I am really confused as so far it seems like just friendship to me.

 

 

It is not about "seeing" such a situation before as it is knowing the nature of women because I am a woman. If we are only interested in a man as a "friend qua friend" i.e. with no sexual interest, but enjoying a dimension of strong intellectual and personality compatibility, we will go for the "day dates" more often than not.

 

Of course we will have dinner or drinks with such a friend-type if circumstances (work, convenience, etc) create that kind of scheduling need, but a woman will show a certain amount of "holding back" in order to underscore a lack of sexual interest so that the chap in question does get the "wrong" idea. All right--I should not speak for all women but I can say that this is how I have acted and do act with men who are "strictly friends" for me (and they all are, only my H is something more!). Women just do not like male friends in whom they have no romantic interest to cross any lines, ever. It becomes too complicated, wearisome. A guard goes up...I think I can safely assume this to be the case for most women...

 

But sitting together side-by-side at the table...staying out until 3am..from drinks...to dinner...to late nights....That is definately the communication of something more. I truly believe that is flirtation, that is romantic desire. Even if you have had other married female friends who also sought these kinds of evenings, I would bet that they too desired you to some extent, even if you were not aware of it at the time nor later found out.

 

Women "test" to get responses. We are a bit programmed like that.

 

As I said, you could put your mind to rest by just asking her how she feels and telling her where you draw the line, if in fact there is a standard you wish to maintain.

 

xo

OE

[dylan.h]

What I like about my female friends is that we know there is mild attraction but we don't talk about it and keep the flirting at a manageable level. The fact that there's a bit of mystery makes things more exciting.

 

Ideally, I would like to apply the same model to this new friend. I am just a bit concerned because, 1) I don't know her very well, 2) she seems to be more outgoing and forward than my other friends, 3) she's married.

 

I wouldn't want to set boundaries unless I really have to, in which case I'm sure the friendship would fade away anyway.

 

To those who claim there is no element of attraction in friendships, I disagree. Even men tend to hang out with friends who have similar physical, intellectual and financial potential. This can be observed as early as kindergarten.

 

As for my new friend, I will assume for now that she's very outgoing as I have no concrete reason to think that she wants an affair...

[bish]

I actually agree with you. I would not be comfortable with this.

 

Then why would you take a married woman out? If you would not be comfortable with it, why would you expect her husband to be?

[dylan.h]

Then why would you take a married woman out? If you would not be comfortable with it, why would you expect her husband to be?

 

How is that my problem?

[bish]

I don't get it. They're your FRIENDS but you won't have a drink or have dinner with them?

 

Maybe as a group...but not one on one like a date. And I certainly wouldn't be keeping a female friend out til 3am trying to woo her.

 

I'm attracted to all of my female friends and I accept it. I embrace the fact that male/female friendships have different dynamics.

 

sorry...thats not the premise of why you took her out, you said you asked her out because you are attracted to her.

 

How many male friends have you asked to dinner and drinks and stayed out til 3am sitting right next to each other....and how many of your male friends did you do this with and then say you enjoyed the attention?

[bish]

How is that my problem?

 

Well this says it all about you doesn't it?

 

sorry man...this isn't a friendship in the traditional sense of the word and you know it...you are going on dates with her because you are attracted to her...you are wooing a married woman....don't say you aren't either.

 

and how is it your problem...do unto others as you'd have done to you...otherwise you are nothing but a hypocrite. and the fact that you say "How is that my problem?"...we can chalk selfishness up to your character as well.

[dylan.h]

Well this says it all about you doesn't it?

 

sorry man...this isn't a friendship in the traditional sense of the word and you know it...you are going on dates with her because you are attracted to her...you are wooing a married woman....don't say you aren't either.

 

and how is it your problem...do unto others as you'd have done to you...otherwise you are nothing but a hypocrite. and the fact that you say "How is that my problem?"...we can chalk selfishness up to your character as well.

 

I came here for advice and plenty of people have replied with constructive posts. I've had enough of your aggressive behaviour and judgmental ideas.

 

You seem to have more conservative rules than others and there's nothing wrong with that. I am not judging you and I ask the same from you.

 

If you disagree, just beat it.

[dylan.h]

Maybe as a group...but not one on one like a date. And I certainly wouldn't be keeping a female friend out til 3am trying to woo her.

 

sorry...thats not the premise of why you took her out, you said you asked her out because you are attracted to her.

 

How many male friends have you asked to dinner and drinks and stayed out til 3am sitting right next to each other....and how many of your male friends did you do this with and then say you enjoyed the attention?

 

Because I'm attracted to someone doesn't mean I want to sleep with them. Probably not something you can understand.

 

Friendships with someone of the opposite sex are definitely different. Your analogy to a male/male friendship is irrelevant.

[blind_otter]

In other words, I guess you don't think friendship can exist between a man and a woman?

 

If the woman is married the only appropriate way to be friends with her is to be friends with her husband as well.

 

IMO.

[bish]

Because I'm attracted to someone doesn't mean I want to sleep with them. Probably not something you can understand.

 

Friendships with someone of the opposite sex are definitely different. Your analogy to a male/male friendship is irrelevant.

 

the analogy of the male/male friendship is irrelevant to you because you don't want to answer the question.

And it wasn't even an analogy...it was a question to find out if you ask out male friends to do the same things as a female "friend". If not...sorry dude....you are going out on a date. You can dismiss it as you don't want to do anything with her all you want.

 

so answer me this please....do the both of you sneak around and hide this from her husband? Does her husband know she is going out with a guy that asked her out because he is attracted to her?

[bish]

I came here for advice and plenty of people have replied with constructive posts.

 

Oh puuulllease....you came here for advice for what? If you can't see what is going on right in front of your eyes...well what more can I say? This sounds like you are stroking your own ego in the forum.

 

I think you just wanted to come here to let people know you are able to woo a married woman away from her husband.

[dylan.h]

Oh puuulllease....you came here for advice for what? If you can't see what is going on right in front of your eyes...well what more can I say? This sounds like you are stroking your own ego in the forum.

 

I think you just wanted to come here to let people know you are able to woo a married woman away from her husband.

 

I've respectfully mentioned it before but you keep persisting, so here it is again.

 

I think you're a frustrated idiot. If you don't like the conversations going on in this thread, **** off! Seriously!

Edited January 4, 2008 by dylan.h

[dylan.h]

the analogy of the male/male friendship is irrelevant to you because you don't want to answer the question.

And it wasn't even an analogy...it was a question to find out if you ask out male friends to do the same things as a female "friend". If not...sorry dude....you are going out on a date. You can dismiss it as you don't want to do anything with her all you want.

 

so answer me this please....do the both of you sneak around and hide this from her husband? Does her husband know she is going out with a guy that asked her out because he is attracted to her?

 

I have no idea what she tells her husband.

 

Of course I don't do the same things with my female friends as I do with my male friends. Do you? Now I suspect you're the stuck up, frustrated type who can look at a woman straight in the eye.

 

So you've never gone out on a friendly date with a woman? Are you a virgin or just an idiot?

 

Again, **** off!

[Touche]

Sorry, but as a married woman, I agree with Bish 100%. You're playing with fire. These are dates. It's not appropriate and this will never end well if you continue. I guarantee it.

[whichwayisup]

You need to ask yourself though what are you going to get out of this friendship? And, how often to you plan on getting together with this married woman. How often will lunches turn into dinner and drinks, late nights out?

 

I think if you want the friendship, you should meet her husband. If SHE balks at that idea, then back off because that means SHE is hiding the friendship from her husband and being selfish.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry, but as a married woman, I agree with Bish 100%. You're playing with fire. These are dates. It's not appropriate and this will never end well if you continue. I guarantee it.

 

I agree with touche and bish here too. Ofcourse, bish's situation is worst case senario as he lived through this firsthand! Yeah he's coming off harsh, but it's just how he is sometimes. If he didn't care, he wouldn't have posted on your thread at all.

[dylan.h]

You need to ask yourself though what are you going to get out of this friendship? And, how often to you plan on getting together with this married woman. How often will lunches turn into dinner and drinks, late nights out?

 

I think if you want the friendship, you should meet her husband. If SHE balks at that idea, then back off because that means SHE is hiding the friendship from her husband and being selfish.

 

I understand what you're saying.

 

I can think of at least a couple of female friends who I occasionally go out with (maybe 3-4 times a year). We share stories and they can sometimes talk to me about their problems at home, etc.

 

I know that's inappropriate as their husbands knew they shared that much information. However, we know we aren't doing anything wrong. I am not using the information against them. We are attracted enough to each other to share a good meal but not emotionally fragile enough to fall in love with just about anyone...

 

These friendships are tough to find. They allow me to have the female perspective on a bunch of issues like relationships, sex and life in general.

 

If we were to go out regularly, then yes I'd probably meet the husband too.

[Touche]

I have no idea what she tells her husband.

 

Of course I don't do the same things with my female friends as I do with my male friends. Do you? Now I suspect you're the stuck up, frustrated type who can look at a woman straight in the eye.

 

So you've never gone out on a friendly date with a woman? Are you a virgin or just an idiot?

 

Again, **** off!

 

But you're not out on a friendly date with a woman. You're out on a friendly date with a MARRIED woman. Single men don't "date" married women. And married women aren't supposed to "date" single men.

 

Go ahead and continue with your dates though and see what happens. You're either very naive or in serious denial.

[dylan.h]

I agree with touche and bish here too. Ofcourse, bish's situation is worst case senario as he lived through this firsthand! Yeah he's coming off harsh, but it's just how he is sometimes. If he didn't care, he wouldn't have posted on your thread at all.

 

I think there's a proper way to express disagreement. I've gone through tough times myself and it doesn't justify my being a jerk to anyone.

 

I've actually talked about my situation with a number of people. The more conservative think it's wrong and that I am "dating" a married woman.

 

The more liberal think there's nothing wrong with it as we are only friends.

 

That's why I came here to discuss my situation. I like constructive discussions. I don't like to be repeatedly insulted by another member.

[whichwayisup]

Stop comparing what your friends do, and start looking at your situation as your own. YOU KNOW she never told her husband she was out alone with you till 3am. Know why? BECAUSE SHE KNOWS it's wrong, she knows it's inappropriate of her to go out with a single man whom her husband doesn't know anything about so late at night.

 

These friendships are tough to find. They allow me to have the female perspective on a bunch of issues like relationships, sex and life in general.

 

This is your reason to befriend this MW?

[Touche]

Also wanted to add this. Out of all the different areas of LS you could have put this i.e. Friendship, Dating, etc. you chose to put this iunder The Other Man/Woman.

 

Rather telling, wouldn't you say?

[whichwayisup]

I've actually talked about my situation with a number of people. The more conservative think it's wrong and that I am "dating" a married woman.

 

The more liberal think there's nothing wrong with it as we are only friends.

 

And what do you think? What does your MW think? What does her husband think? Does it matter to you? What if her intentions are more than just friends. How are you going to handle that.

 

I'm not saying she is going to cheat on her husband, or you will allow something to happen, it's just a very fine line that could easily be crossed, given the right circumstances....Something YOU need to be aware of.

 

Anyway, meet the husband. See how that goes.