Had a visitor today... Part Deux

[Owl]

No...you CLING to the "benefit of the doubt'. Its what you HOPE will happen.

 

I won't treat your situation as different from any other unless something clearly indicates that it is. Haven't seen that yet. Now...if you can get her H to post here and cooborate your story...I might change my mind.

 

There are four views in all of these situations. Yours, hers, his...and what REALLY happened.

 

So far, we've got yours. And nothing personal, but your side is going be just as biased as his would be...or hers. Add to that the fact that WS's LIE better than a new rug, and you'll see why I'm not convinced anything is 'unique' in your story versus the tons of others I've read or seen.

 

Hence...you get the advice that others will see as "one size fits all". In three years of posting on four boards, I've seen less than a handful of situations that weren't "cookie cutter". And most of those involved greater problems than the affair, such as physical abuse or addictions.

[stampdaddy]

Hell, at this point I think *I* have some idea what it would be like to live with stamp.

 

My problem is, I don't think stamp really knows what living with her is going to be like. Her track record isn't so great so far IMHO.

If you ever need a place Boot, I've got a "PINK" room all for you.....

[Tomcat33]

Hell, at this point I think *I* have some idea what it would be like to live with stamp.

 

My problem is, I don't think stamp really knows what living with her is going to be like. Her track record isn't so great so far IMHO.

 

 

 

Again, i couldn't agree more on all counts!

[frannie]

Hell, at this point I think *I* have some idea what it would be like to live with stamp.

 

:laugh::laugh:

 

I won't treat your situation as different from any other unless something clearly indicates that it is. Haven't seen that yet. Now...if you can get her H to post here and cooborate your story...I might change my mind...

 

Owl, are you asking here for the H to corroborate stamp's assertion that he spoke to stamp and told him they'd not had sex for x years? I mean, are you doubting what stamp said was true of his own experience? I just wanted to be clear about that, because you know I think we should all take as true poster's assertions about what is going on in their lives.

 

Or were you meaning you wanted to hear H's side of things?

 

I'm asking because I don't think I've seen stamp assert anything about the H's views or feelings... stamp seems to be as in the dark as any of us as to H's story. In fact the only people asserting they know much about the H's side are those who have been in the BS shoes. Which is probably fair enough, but is still making assumptions.

[Owl]

Yes, I am saying that we don't know the whole story...only SD's side of it. When several aspects of it were questioned as to whether or not the H would agree (such as the 'birthday sex only' thing), SD has said that he's heard that directly from the as well as the MW.

 

Personally, while its POSSIBLE, I don't think its likely.

 

If this relationship truly was as aweful as SD has described, I think her H would have used this as an opportunity to divorce her and start over.

 

SD has claimed that he has inside knowledge of their relationship(between MW and her H).

 

I'd like to see her BH post here...or on one of the other forums where people can go for support in dealing with a WS. I'd be AMAZED if BH has the same viewpoint on things as SD has described.

 

SD, I'm not saying that you're being dishonest. I think that your view of the situation is going to reflect your position in the situation more than you think it does. I don't think your view of their relationship matches what you'd get as his view...or hers. And I think that perhaps if you got HIS view, you might change your perspective on things.

[noforgiveness]

Yes, I am saying that we don't know the whole story...only SD's side of it. When several aspects of it were questioned as to whether or not the H would agree (such as the 'birthday sex only' thing), SD has said that he's heard that directly from the as well as the MW.

 

Personally, while its POSSIBLE, I don't think its likely.

 

If this relationship truly was as aweful as SD has described, I think her H would have used this as an opportunity to divorce her and start over.

 

SD has claimed that he has inside knowledge of their relationship(between MW and her H).

 

I'd like to see her BH post here...or on one of the other forums where people can go for support in dealing with a WS. I'd be AMAZED if BH has the same viewpoint on things as SD has described.

 

SD, I'm not saying that you're being dishonest. I think that your view of the situation is going to reflect your position in the situation more than you think it does. I don't think your view of their relationship matches what you'd get as his view...or hers. And I think that perhaps if you got HIS view, you might change your perspective on things.

Totally agree with this. The affair being discovered is the perfect out for her husband. Perfect excuse for him to get out of a horrible sexless marriage. If it was the bad I think he would run with it. The kids and extended family would not blame him for ending the marriage.

[reboot]

SD, I'm not saying that you're being dishonest. I think that your view of the situation is going to reflect your position in the situation more than you think it does. I don't think your view of their relationship matches what you'd get as his view...or hers. And I think that perhaps if you got HIS view, you might change your perspective on things.

No bad reflection on anyone, and whether any of you choose to admit this or not, but Owl is entirely correct. We ALL tell our stories in a manner that puts us in the best light possible. Not saying people lie, just that they tell it from their own viewpoint, which is typically NOT the way a disinterested 3rd party might see it. It's just human nature.

[frannie]

OK, I was specifically meaning that, as I remember it, stamp has heard it from the H's lips that there was no sex for years. Of course the H could have lied, but I don't really see why he would lie about that?

[LifesontheUp]

I don't think it matters whether they had sex once a year, twice a year, whatever.

 

The telling thing here is that she is STILL with her husband. Whether its for the children or not, she is still there with her HUSBAND. Actions speak louder than any words.

[Tomcat33]

 

The telling thing here is that she is STILL with her husband. Whether its for the children or not, she is still there with her HUSBAND. Actions speak louder than any words.

 

Well I wouldn't be so quick to mark the "telling thing" being she chose her husband at this point because she is also breaking NC to appear at the OM's house every so many days claiming things are not going to work at home...so the only "telling thing" right now is that neither guy is getting anything from her because actions DO speak louder than words.

 

If it's a matter of logistics yeah she chose her home but what does that really entail? Only she knows...

[Owl]

I think it is a 'telling thing' that she's with her H, AND breaking NC to talk with SD.

 

She wants both.

 

Typical response a wayward spouse.

 

It sounds to me as though she COULD move in with SD if that was what she wanted. It sounds like he's got sufficient resources to take care of the both of them.

 

She's chosen not to do so, and instead is working with her H to try to 'prove' to him that the affair isn't the problem. (it wasn't the ORIGINAL problem, but its definitely the BIGGEST problem that they've got to deal with first...but she's not going to be willing to see that just yet) If her main intent was to be with SD, she wouldn't care about proving/disproving a thing to her H.

 

Odds are...she really doesn't know what she wants right now. She's probably torn, confused...and fighting to keep both of them in her life until she can make up her mind. Which she really never wants to have to do.

[LifesontheUp]

If her main intent was to be with SD, she wouldn't care about proving/disproving a thing to her H.

 

That sums it up.

 

I've seen this type of situation on forums and in real life time and time again. Lets get real here for a minute.....it is highly likely she would have left already if she wanted to be with SD. Her preferred option would be to keep both, as she would have if the affair never got found out. However, it has and she's trying in her own way to keep both...hence breaking NC with SD.

 

Honestly, I feel sorry for SD but I feel doubly sorry for her husband who for his sins has looked after their kids whilst his wife has been having fun elsewhere.

 

I was brought up by my dad whilst my mother was out messing with her OM. Quite frankly an absent mother in these circumstances affects the kids. To me this woman is just like my mother was..........selfish to the core. She has put her own needs in front of her kids.

[Owl]

She has put her own needs in front of her kids

 

Correction:

She has put her own WANTS in front of her kids's.

[whichwayisup]

After the holidays, time will tell, to see if her words match her actions. Right now she isn't stupid enough to turn her kids lives upside down and ruin their Christmas by moving out.

[Tomcat33]

That sums it up.

 

I've seen this type of situation on forums and in real life time and time again. Lets get real here for a minute.....it is highly likely she would have left already if she wanted to be with SD. Her preferred option would be to keep both, as she would have if the affair never got found out. However, it has and she's trying in her own way to keep both...hence breaking NC with SD.

 

Honestly, I feel sorry for SD but I feel doubly sorry for her husband who for his sins has looked after their kids whilst his wife has been having fun elsewhere.

 

I was brought up by my dad whilst my mother was out messing with her OM. Quite frankly an absent mother in these circumstances affects the kids. To me this woman is just like my mother was..........selfish to the core. She has put her own needs in front of her kids.

 

Firstly, sorry that your mom did that to you and your siblings...that made me really sad to read and nothing pulls at my heart strings more than seeing children who were neglected because of an affair. I think a mother should always put her children first and cannot imagine how some women do that...I'm truly sorry for your pain. Maybe I sort of expect behaviour like that from a father and men do get a lot of bad rep for that, but a mom seems different....

 

I apologise for the double standard but it is my "social conditioning"

 

 

But even having said that I would totally have to agree with WWIU and I was going to say the same exact same thing myself but haven't had the chance to post all morning..

 

whichwayisup - After the holidays, time will tell, to see if her words match her actions. Right now she isn't stupid enough to turn her kids lives upside down and ruin their Christmas by moving out.

 

 

We aren't really sure how much this woman has neglected her children, though leaving them with her H while she is off on vacation with her lover does seem a bit neglectful to me...but that's just my opinion. But I do think that contrary to what many think is an excuse, the idea that people don't turn worlds upside down because of the children is a very real fact.

 

Yes people get lost in affairs and the selfishness of getting their own needs met with a third party but the reality is that though they may be distracted and temporarily take away from their children's attention while in the affiar, making a definite move to disrupt their whole lives with a divorce and having to face the fact that they will some day be viewed as the monster that broke the family up is a HUGE choice for someone to make and a big step to take.

 

I'm not justifying a cheater's way of thinking but you can kind of see where all the complications lay. Yes some cheaters might realised they loved their partners "afterall" but when there are kids involved it's a lot more complicated than the trite "just get a divorce" comment a lot of people love to offer as a solution. Children DO matter and they are a true consideration.

[Owl]

If we believe SD's side of things, this woman has spent massive amounts of time with him...WITHOUT her children. He's indicated that she's done this while her H was out doing his own things...which makes me question just who is watching these kids during all of this?!?!

 

Regardless, if we follow what SD says, given the sheer amount of time she's spent with him, I think we can definitively say that she's been neglecting her kids for her own desire to be with SD. The way he's described, she appears to spend half the weekend with him...if that's not neglect, I'm not sure what else to call it.

 

Also...according to what I've read here, it sounds as though her H has been just as neglectful.

 

So who IS watching the kids when they're both out doing their own things???

 

I think that she's only given passing thought to what would happen with the kids. I think they were both moving along in the 'fantasyland' of the affair, and assumed that they'd never get caught until the kids were all grown up, and she could just 'move on' on her own. It doesn't sound as though they'd thought about what would happen if they were caught BEFORE that point...and now she's forced to consider exactly that.

[Tomcat33]

I think that she's only given passing thought to what would happen with the kids. I think they were both moving along in the 'fantasyland' of the affair, and assumed that they'd never get caught until the kids were all grown up, and she could just 'move on' on her own. It doesn't sound as though they'd thought about what would happen if they were caught BEFORE that point...and now she's forced to consider exactly that.

 

Yeah I agree with that. I would even think it probably happens a lot like that...living the moment is different than living out the long term reprecutions of how things would pan out.

 

I still have a problem with calling it the "fantasy" though. To me a fantasy is something that does not exist, that you cannot touch or see or live, you may feel it but you are not in it. The relationship these two people had was very much lived touched and felt so I still don't see how that = a fantasy?

[Owl]

Its a fantasy.

 

They had a relationship...an affair. That was real. But it was in a self-contained environment, with little to no outside influences on it. It was like an experiment in a lab...and just like that experiment, its often not a clear predictor of what will happen "in the real world".

 

We'll probably always disagree on this. But from my perspective, even this long term affair is not a true comparison to a real marriage. The situation is massively different, and there are different (and fewer) stressors that impact the dynamics of the relationship.

 

They had a relationship. A self-contained, in its own little world relationship.

 

When exposed to "the real world"...affairs most often crumble under their own weight. They don't have the support structures built into most marriages, and are so 'single-minded' that they just can't deal with the multitude of other stressors that come in real life. Dealing with each other on an all day every day basis. Dealing with the finances, the kids, how to discipline the kids. Dealing with everyone now KNOWING what's going on...knowing how the relationship began. Etc...

 

It's a dream. A fantasy. A "what-if"...that rarely comes true.

[whichwayisup]

To you, that's a fantasy, but others, it may be different. I mean, this woman has escaped her own life, run to stamps and together they live in their own little world. No outside forces (meaning her kids, entwined family and friends, finances, stresses that include BOTH of them in the real world as an out in the open couple, not in an affair situation) have tested them.

 

An affair may be a relationship in a sense, but the fact still remains that it's a secret, it's hidden and the most important people in her life (KIDS, immediate family) do not know about Stamps, so it's affairyland/fantasy for her. It isn't for him as he has shared his everything with her. She hasn't with him.

[Tomcat33]

They had a relationship...an affair. That was real. But it was in a self-contained environment, with little to no outside influences on it. It was like an experiment in a lab...and just like that experiment, its often not a clear predictor of what will happen "in the real world".

 

We'll probably always disagree on this. But from my perspective, even this long term affair is not a true comparison to a real marriage. The situation is massively different, and there are different (and fewer) stressors that impact the dynamics of the relationship.

 

They had a relationship. A self-contained, in its own little world relationship.

 

When exposed to "the real world"...affairs most often crumble under their own weight. They don't have the support structures built into most marriages, and are so 'single-minded' that they just can't deal with the multitude of other stressors that come in real life. Dealing with each other on an all day every day basis. Dealing with the finances, the kids, how to discipline the kids. Dealing with everyone now KNOWING what's going on...knowing how the relationship began. Etc...

 

It's a dream. A fantasy. A "what-if"...that rarely comes true.

 

 

Yeah we will disagree and unless you have been in a relationship outside of your marriage or been th OP you will see it as such for perhaps lack of understanding what actually happens. With your argument then any two people that date for an extended period of time that don't live together and and that don't introduce each other to their friends/family is also living a fantasy!?!?

 

SO a couple who met but have to be in and LTR and the one person is in the army say and has to be abroad for the most part and their time together is limited during the year and when they are together they HAVE to make it their own since they have limited time as it is, is ALSO a fantasy? C'mon OWL.

 

Your W had very much a fantasy affair she never met touched tasted felt in real time her man, that is not to say she didn't develop strong feelings of that a person cannot YOU CAN, the mind is a very powerful thing but this prticular scenario is a real relationship between to people. Wrong as it may be, it happened on every level.

 

I won't deny that this does not equate to how well they will make it in a marriage or in a life of having their time intertwined with real pressures like children, responsibilities and financial responsibilities but for the sake of what they lived up until this point it is REAL.

 

Also, think about all the couples that get together and are divorced, most divorcees with children live their relationships OUTSIDE of their children and families because they don't want to introduce the new lover to the children if they are not going to stick around so a lot of these relationships happen for an extended priod of time compartmentalized from their own immidiate lives/families. Are you going to say that's a fantasy too?

 

I think we might be mixing morality with calling it fantasy instead.

 

 

I won't get into the whole "it's a secret tie" because it IS, I am not denying the wrongful aspect of the affair or the implications of what comes after the relationship is established out in the open, OF COURSE it changes. EVERY single relationship that goes from the dating stage to full on living together and sharing lives 1:1 with all the it entails, requires MAJOR change...some transition smoother than others, but change is inevitable.

[Tomcat33]

Honestly then we are getting into all this abstract thinking of what is VS perception.

 

Like if you tell me:

 

"I feel really happy today and my day is going really well because of that" and I say to you

"yeah but OWL do you feel that or are you imagining that and just looking to see the positive and neglect to see all the negative that actually happened to you today?

 

You would come back to me and say "you know what? screw off I feel happy and things are fine, I am not imagining this I know how I feel and I can see how my day is going"

[Owl]

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

 

 

It doesn't matter to me if you call it fantasy, reality, or banana pudding.

 

I have reason and experience to call it what I call it. You have reason and experience to feel differently.

 

There we are.

[Owl]

So, have we scared SD off now????

[Tomcat33]

Guess we'll just have to disagree.

 

 

It doesn't matter to me if you call it fantasy, reality, or banana pudding.

 

I have reason and experience to call it what I call it. You have reason and experience to feel differently.

 

There we are.

 

we disagree it is then!

 

I think SD is pob laying low, he got his answer from her and the insight from here so now he re-focus on his stuff.

Hope is a wonder drug!

[reboot]

I think SD is pob laying low

Or he's busy breaking NC.