Would you destroy another person's life?

[Darkzen]

Just wondering what would happen if she didnt suffer at all from this. Do you have a line?

 

I guess I'll never know TBH. I've moved on, in my mind things are now fair. Like I said, I will not cross the line between legal and moral. I've done what I can to try and fix the injustice... I have to accept the results and continue following my beliefs and ideals. If I somehow found out, down the line, that it didn't affect her... I'd accept that and not try to further exact punishment (unless she did evil things to me again and I have the power to make her take responsibility for it). I wouldn't break the law to mete out punishment either.

[Darkzen]

I actually almost feel sorry for you Darkzen.

 

Your arrogance and narcissistic tendencies will not help you find peace or happiness anytime soon.

 

Regardless of your "flaming sword" attitudes, and the intensely self righteous way you justify your actions, you are clearly very very unhappy and lonely.

 

I highly doubt that in ten years time you will feel the same about this issue as you do today.

 

Good luck.

 

I'm not arrogant or narcissistic. I'm confident and know who I am. There's a difference, I don't over-hype myself or my abilities. You may believe I do, but that is your problem, not mine.

 

I'm quite content, maybe not happy, but honestly how many of us are truly happy. You're right about me being lonely though, I feel very disconnected from the world at times. I cannot fathom being like some of the people I meet or know. There's very few people who identify with me and that is a lonely feeling at times. My loneliness isn't a feeling of hopelessness though.

 

You're free to doubt it, but you don't understand the type of person I am, so it's not a surprise to me. I doubt humanity will change so much over the next ten years, that I'll even have a reason to question my beliefs, let alone make any changes.

[sb129]

I'm not arrogant or narcissistic. I'm confident and know who I am. There's a difference, I don't over-hype myself or my abilities. You may believe I do, but that is your problem, not mine.

 

Look up narcissistic personality disorder, and see if you can see why I came to that conclusion. You just gave me even more reasons to think that in the following passage:

 

I'm quite content, maybe not happy, but honestly how many of us are truly happy. You're right about me being lonely though, I feel very disconnected from the world at times. I cannot fathom being like some of the people I meet or know. There's very few people who identify with me and that is a lonely feeling at times. My loneliness isn't a feeling of hopelessness though.

 

So many people feel that way. You dont HAVE to be like some of the people you know. If everyone was the same, how boring would that be?

 

Maybe you should open your mind to that. Also, if people aren't identifying with you, what does that tell you? Do you think its them, or you?

 

You're free to doubt it, but you don't understand the type of person I am, so it's not a surprise to me. I doubt humanity will change so much over the next ten years, that I'll even have a reason to question my beliefs, let alone make any changes.

 

You're not as complicated and "different" as you think you are, sorry to disappoint you! I understand the type of person you are much more than you can even begin to imagine!

 

Humanity may not change, but YOU might- I suspect that in the next ten years things may happen to you that could drastically change your outlook on life. The years between 30 and 40 can be full of major life changes for many people.

Examples of those things may be:

a bereavement, becoming a parent, illness, falling in love again, etc etc etc.

 

Hopefully for you its the good things, and you find happiness, contentment, and that loneliness is dealt with.

[Darkzen]

Look up narcissistic personality disorder, and see if you can see why I came to that conclusion. You just gave me even more reasons to think that in the following passage:

 

I looked it up. About the only thing on the list of diagnosis criteria that comes close to matching me (although not fully) is "strong sense of entitlement". I feel everyone is entitled to the basic concept of respect and being treated fairly. Yes, I'm guilty as charged on that count.

 

So many people feel that way. You dont HAVE to be like some of the people you know. If everyone was the same, how boring would that be?

 

I do not choose to be like those people, that doesn't mean I don't feel lonely at times, because I seem to be in the minority.

 

Maybe you should open your mind to that. Also, if people aren't identifying with you, what does that tell you? Do you think its them, or you?

 

I don't think it's anyone's fault. I understand that everyone has the freedom to choose how they want to act. That doesn't absolve them from the consequences of their choices though. This isn't a mystical concept, we see it everyday in the world. If you commit a crime, you suffer the consequences. If you run through Harlem in a KKK hood and robe, you suffer the consequences. If choose to sleep around, you suffer the consequences. Etc...

 

You're not as complicated and "different" as you think you are, sorry to disappoint you! I understand the type of person you are much more than you can even begin to imagine!

 

Yet you're the one calling me arrogant. I'm very different than you. Maybe you believe you understand the type of person I am, because you're projecting onto me. I see many people here saying one thing and acting the complete opposite way. Such as you calling me arrogant, yet you seem to think you know it all. Rather than admitting that you may not, in-fact, know as much as you think you do. I don't know enough about you, to make claims of knowing exactly what kind of person you. I can form opinions, but show me where I ever said or implied that I knew everything about someone. Maybe my friend, you should look a little more deeply at yourself. I'm not arrogant or ignorant enough to believe I'm unique either. It's quite possible that there are other people exactly like me.

 

Humanity may not change, but YOU might- I suspect that in the next ten years things may happen to you that could drastically change your outlook on life. The years between 30 and 40 can be full of major life changes for many people.

Examples of those things may be:

a bereavement, becoming a parent, illness, falling in love again, etc etc etc.

 

Sure, anything is possible.

 

Hopefully for you its the good things, and you find happiness, contentment, and that loneliness is dealt with.

 

Thanks, your wishes of well-being are a nice gesture.

[sb129]

I'm not projecting anything onto you, my friend.

 

Neither do I think I know it all. I don't, and am more than aware of that.

 

Yes, we are very different. Right now I am in the best R of my life after a few years of false starts, hurt, depression, low self esteem, loneliness and heartache. I brought some of it on myself, and I will hold my hand up and admit to that freely. Some was also due to letting myself get into a R with someone who treated me very badly. I wasn't the innocent party in that situation either though, and my behaviour was questionable too.

 

The only person who got me out of that downward spiral in the end was ME, and no amount of vengeful behaviour/actions would have made it better. I am sure they would have felt good temporarily, but I know myself well enough to know that i would have ended up regretting them.

 

If I could even pull off what you have done, guilt would eventually get me, because no matter how much vindication I felt I needed, IMO the best thing is to walk away with your head held high, and be the better, stronger person.

I think its harder to do that than it is to do things out of passion and anger that you may regret later.

 

Don't think I haven't been tempted.... but-

 

I would rather cut someone out of my life than deliberately go out of my way to make their life more difficult. I think that people ultimately have to face up to themselves and their faults one way or another (I certainly had to!), and if they cause someone else intense pain, they will "suffer" one way or another, and thats enough for me, even if I never get to see or hear about it.

 

 

Being in a happy, loving healthy R has opened my eyes to many things, and its great. At least when you have been in a sh*tty R for ages, and treated badly, you are much more appreciative of someone great when they finally come along!

[Darkzen]

See, that wasn't so hard. Rather than attacking me for my decisions, you participated in the topic by sharing your experiences and gave reasons for why you don't agree with my outlook. I respect that immensely.

 

I understand you're PoV and would normally agree with it. Although, in my relationship, I really and truthfully didn't do anything to deserve the treatment I received. Then on top of it, she created delusions, of my character, in her head to justify leaving me. Every time she brought up an example to explain why she was leaving, I proved her wrong on what really happened (she even admitted she was wrong, once I reminded her what really happened). That to me, is total disrespect and injustice. Then to make it all even worse, she refused to make amends, by changing this false image of me in her mind. I'm sorry, but that was the last straw for me... if she wanted to make me into a monster unjustly, I was determined to get justice. She got her wish, I got my reckoning... the balance was restored... end of story.

 

She's an evil person if that's how she treats people, so I feel no regret for serving justice. She became a totally different person after the first week in the relationship. I can pin-point the exact moment too. We were in line at six flags and a lady commented "oh look, you guys are in love". That's when her defenses came up and she went into, "hurt others before they have a chance to hurt you" mode. Over the nine years she kept promising to change and I believed she was that person I first met, just hidden under the defense mechanisms she built up. To a certain extent she changed, not going to lie. The cheating stopped after the third year. Although, that's about the extent of the changes.

 

Yes, I can sympathize with people's problems, but I still don't feel it gives them the right, to treat another the way that she treated me. I'm a good person, but I refuse, to not fight against injustice... no matter how big or how small. Once we sit back and accept people acting this way, we give them permission to continue hurting others. I will not give her permission to hurt anyone else or me, anymore. Maybe my actions won't change her, they probably won't, but it may give her pause the next time she's in a position to hurt someone. If she won't respect people enough to not treat them badly, she will at least fear the consequences of treating people badly.

[StaringContest]

At least now, she has to deal with some of her actions, whether or not she wants to. She cannot delude herself out of these consequences. That to me, is justice.

 

If she can delude herself about everything else, what makes you think she can't delude herself about this?

 

You admittedly had good reason to believe she was a ho within a year of knowing her. Yeah, she made promises to change, but you chose to stick around another 8 years even after she didn't. That was all your choice. If you wanted to teach her a lesson about cheating and treating you badly, you should have dumped her 8 years ago.

 

In fact, at any point, you could have dumped her and taught her that lesson. That would have been justice.

 

Now only after she dumped you do you want to teach her a lesson? Seeing that you didn't care to teach a lesson about the cheating and treating you like crap before now, it seems the only lesson you're trying to teach is that the woman shouldn't have dumped you.

 

Unfortunately for you, that's not even the lesson she'll learn. Your actions aren't going to make her feel bad about dumping you. All you did was give her justification for treating you like crap and dumping you. If she's like what you're describing, people like her don't learn to treat people better from the type of 'justice' you're describing. The main lessons you'll have taught her is not to confide in other people after she's done something wrong and to manipulate them better so that they don't rat her out if/when she does confide. You've just helped improve her methods of screwing people over. Good job.

 

If you'd have left her alone, she might have eventually regretted what she did to you, not because of karma. (I don't believe in that either, and I don't get why people keep bringing it up after you've said you don't.) I think most people have an experience like that: where they didn't treat a really good person the way they deserved or took them for granted, then later on realized what a mistake that was. I doubt your ex will ever have that kind of realization, because you just villainized yourself in her eyes.

 

Also, if it turns out that her company can't prove your accusations against her, she might sue you for defamation. And the supervisor that got her this job, don't you think he'll get into trouble too? What did he do to you to deserve this? Maybe it wasn't the best thing for him to do, but he was just trying to help out a friend. Under your code of justice, does he deserve to have his life ruined to?

[lindya]

Then on top of it, she created delusions, of my character, in her head to justify leaving me. Every time she brought up an example to explain why she was leaving, I proved her wrong on what really happened (she even admitted she was wrong, once I reminded her what really happened). That to me, is total disrespect and injustice.

 

Yes, it is - but people often do that at the end of relationships. When you challenge someone for the reasons they give for not wanting to be with you, in a sense you just encourage them to hang on more tightly to those reasons. What she said may well have been very unfair, but those statements were probably emotionally driven. From your posts, you see yourself as a very logical person...but when you argue against emotionally driven statements, to the other person it will feel as though you're arguing against the emotions themselves. Which, logically (when you consider the nature of emotions) is a pointless exercise

 

Then to make it all even worse, she refused to make amends, by changing this false image of me in her mind.

 

You see what I'm saying? You thought you could argue her out of all those strong emotional or gut feelings. I bet the more you tried to do that, the nastier and more heated it all became.

 

I'm sorry, but that was the last straw for me... if she wanted to make me into a monster unjustly, I was determined to get justice. She got her wish, I got my reckoning... the balance was restored... end of story.

 

In what sense? You've punished her for expressing what you feel were very unfair views of you....but you can't change that perspective she has.

 

 

Yes, I can sympathize with people's problems, but I still don't feel it gives them the right, to treat another the way that she treated me. I'm a good person, but I refuse, to not fight against injustice... no matter how big or how small. Once we sit back and accept people acting this way, we give them permission to continue hurting others.

 

You won't stop her hurting other people by exacting revenge on her. People mistreat others when something about those others (or a situation they're in) bring their dysfunctional traits to the surface. Do you think you can punish dysfunction out of a person? All you can hope for is that they get the help they need to try to change their behaviour - and, in the meantime, that others are protected from their actions as much as possible.

 

I will not give her permission to hurt anyone else or me, anymore. Maybe my actions won't change her, they probably won't, but it may give her pause the next time she's in a position to hurt someone. If she won't respect people enough to not treat them badly, she will at least fear the consequences of treating people badly.

 

Who's suggesting that you should give her permission to hurt you or anyone else? Refraining from exacting revenge on someone doesn't constitute that kind of permission. It's just recognition that, as you've implied yourself, you can't force people to behave in the way you think they should behave. You can only remove yourself from their lives if you find their behaviour unacceptable.

 

Fear of consequences generally just encourages people to adopt a sneakier, more passive aggressive approach. The irony in your posts is that you've adopted this stance of being a logical thinker, yet the actions you've taken aren't logical at all. You might try to explain them using logic, but it's very clear that what you've done comes from a very strong sense of anger.

 

You might have learned to express that anger in a controlled sounding manner, particularly by making lots of references to unemotional logic. Doesn't mean the anger isn't there, and that your actions in all of this weren't heavily influenced by that very powerful (and often extremely destructive) emotion. Normal people's behaviour is always going to be driven by a combination of logic and emotion. Accepting the part emotions played in your behaviour here, rather than maintaining the illusion that your actions were dictated by pure reason, might be an honest and healthy road towards resolving this episode (as much as possible) in your mind.

[sb129]

Then on top of it, she created delusions, of my character, in her head to justify leaving me. Every time she brought up an example to explain why she was leaving, I proved her wrong on what really happened (she even admitted she was wrong, once I reminded her what really happened)

Then to make it all even worse, she refused to make amends, by changing this false image of me in her mind.

 

 

This reminds me sooooo much of my exBF. And this:

 

 

You thought you could argue her out of all those strong emotional or gut feelings. I bet the more you tried to do that, the nastier and more heated it all became.

 

is exactly what happened. The more he pushed, the more i backed away.

[Darkzen]

If she can delude herself about everything else, what makes you think she can't delude herself about this?

 

People understand the truth, they choose to delude themselves to make things easier to deal with. Eventually these false memories become the truth to them.

 

You admittedly had good reason to believe she was a ho within a year of knowing her. Yeah, she made promises to change, but you chose to stick around another 8 years even after she didn't. That was all your choice. If you wanted to teach her a lesson about cheating and treating you badly, you should have dumped her 8 years ago.

 

No, I didn't find out about the lying and cheating until a little after a full year. I was deployed to Bosnia 2 weeks after I met her. When I returned 8 months later, she came and moved in with me for the summer. It wasn't until the end of the summer that I found out.

 

In fact, at any point, you could have dumped her and taught her that lesson. That would have been justice.

 

It's possible, but I believe she would have merely justified the experience in her mind. Making her come out as the good guy.

 

Now only after she dumped you do you want to teach her a lesson? Seeing that you didn't care to teach a lesson about the cheating and treating you like crap before now, it seems the only lesson you're trying to teach is that the woman shouldn't have dumped you.

I did teach her a lesson about the cheating. She cheated 4 times before I found out about it. The next and last time, she learned her lesson. Unfortunately, this event was around the third year mark. Treating me poorly was always sporadic. I never claimed that staying with her wasn't my responsibility. Nor does it have to do with her wanting to leave me. I explained, that I told her to leave two months prior and she begged me to stay. Pretty much like every other time I wanted to leave her.

 

Unfortunately for you, that's not even the lesson she'll learn. Your actions aren't going to make her feel bad about dumping you. All you did was give her justification for treating you like crap and dumping you. If she's like what you're describing, people like her don't learn to treat people better from the type of 'justice' you're describing. The main lessons you'll have taught her is not to confide in other people after she's done something wrong and to manipulate them better so that they don't rat her out if/when she does confide. You've just helped improve her methods of screwing people over. Good job.

 

My goal isn't to make her feel bad for leaving, it's to make her take accountability. Since I can't force her to take it for our relationship, the next best option was her career. I also believe she won't learn a lesson from the situation, except to fear consequences. It might make her think twice next time she wants to hurt someone... because they may fight back. I didn't improve her methods of screwing over people, merely made her more protective of getting hurt herself (by your logic). If she manipulates me well enough to not feel wronged, that's cool with me... would have been my preference TBH.

 

If you'd have left her alone, she might have eventually regretted what she did to you, not because of karma. (I don't believe in that either, and I don't get why people keep bringing it up after you've said you don't.) I think most people have an experience like that: where they didn't treat a really good person the way they deserved or took them for granted, then later on realized what a mistake that was. I doubt your ex will ever have that kind of realization, because you just villainized yourself in her eyes.

 

I don't want her back, nor do I care what she does with the rest of her life. If she plans to realize it, she'll realize it no matter what I do.

 

Also, if it turns out that her company can't prove your accusations against her, she might sue you for defamation. And the supervisor that got her this job, don't you think he'll get into trouble too? What did he do to you to deserve this? Maybe it wasn't the best thing for him to do, but he was just trying to help out a friend. Under your code of justice, does he deserve to have his life ruined to?

 

I gave them hard evidence. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time IMHO. Her supervisor doesn't work there any more. But if he did, he choose his actions, he should be prepared to live with the consequences... just as I have to for trusting her over and over again. As well as the possibility of a defamation suit. I will stand by my decisions and take my lumps, if they come.

 

Yes, it is - but people often do that at the end of relationships. When you challenge someone for the reasons they give for not wanting to be with you, in a sense you just encourage them to hang on more tightly to those reasons. What she said may well have been very unfair, but those statements were probably emotionally driven. From your posts, you see yourself as a very logical person...but when you argue against emotionally driven statements, to the other person it will feel as though you're arguing against the emotions themselves. Which, logically (when you consider the nature of emotions) is a pointless exercise

And that makes her actions right in what way? If I get mad and hit someone, I will expect to go to jail... that's why I use logic over emotion. Beliefs/ideals are based on emotion, but logic is used to formulate how to react. For example, I know how cheating hurts, this pain was used to form the code in which I view cheating. It hurts, I don't wish to hurt people, so I won't cheat. Logic and emotion must co-exist, people can't survive being completely logically or completely emotional... there must be a balance. I don't let emotion rule my actions, that makes me a very logical person. My logic controls my emotions, my emotions don't control my logic.

 

You see what I'm saying? You thought you could argue her out of all those strong emotional or gut feelings. I bet the more you tried to do that, the nastier and more heated it all became.

 

I wasn't trying to reason her out of her feelings. I merely wanted her to show me the respect, that I felt I was deserved. She could not want to be with me, I'm cool with that... but to demonize me was disrespectful and unfair. All she had to do was give me a reason for wanting to leave that didn't include falsehoods of my character. She couldn't. Her actions caused this issue, it's her responsibility to make it right. She didn't want to. I don't think it's unfair to ask that she doesn't defame me to make it easier for her to leave. Which ironically is almost exactly what I did to her, except I didn't make up fantasies, to make it easier for me to leave.

 

In what sense? You've punished her for expressing what you feel were very unfair views of you....but you can't change that perspective she has.

 

I punished her, like she punished me. The balance was realigned. She created a veil to make me appear to be a bad person. I lifted a veil to show she really was a bad person. Pretty fair to me.

 

You won't stop her hurting other people by exacting revenge on her. People mistreat others when something about those others (or a situation they're in) bring their dysfunctional traits to the surface. Do you think you can punish dysfunction out of a person? All you can hope for is that they get the help they need to try to change their behaviour - and, in the meantime, that others are protected from their actions as much as possible.

 

It may not stop her from hurting others, but I'm sure she'll think twice about it in the future, even if it's due to fear of reprisal. I didn't do it with the intention of gaining satisfaction. I did it with the intention of bringing about balance. That's justice, not revenge. Justice isn't perfect, especially since I'm bound to follow the rules of society... but we must at least try to do what we can.

 

Who's suggesting that you should give her permission to hurt you or anyone else? Refraining from exacting revenge on someone doesn't constitute that kind of permission. It's just recognition that, as you've implied yourself, you can't force people to behave in the way you think they should behave. You can only remove yourself from their lives if you find their behaviour unacceptable.

 

Consequences, will keep honest people, honest. Without the fear of consequence, there's no checks and balances, that's giving people permission IMHO. It will be about risk vs reward, rather than just reward, for the non-honest people. The legal system addresses most of the non-moral issues. Society is supposed to address most of the non-legal issues, the problem is that too many people can't be bothered and morality takes a steep decline. Cheating has become common-place today, because we can't be bothered to fight against it. This apathy and indifference only leads to further moral breakdown. Obviously these are my views and many will disagree, but it's how I see the world. I believe that if more people shared these views, my ex wouldn't have been hurt and created these defenses which in turn hurt me. We propagate these actions with our inaction. Hell, this Country was founded based on people refusing to accept the way things are.

 

Fear of consequences generally just encourages people to adopt a sneakier, more passive aggressive approach. The irony in your posts is that you've adopted this stance of being a logical thinker, yet the actions you've taken aren't logical at all. You might try to explain them using logic, but it's very clear that what you've done comes from a very strong sense of anger.

This is true in some cases. And believe it or not, anger doesn't motivate me. When I felt anger at the whole situation, my thoughts were much, much, much darker. Like I said though, my logic controls my emotion, not the other way around. All of our ideals and beliefs can be traced to some emotion. Sure, anger might be the root emotion of justice. I won't argue that. Although it's logic, that prevents us from acting upon our raw emotions. Without logic, we're nothing more than animals.

 

You might have learned to express that anger in a controlled sounding manner, particularly by making lots of references to unemotional logic. Doesn't mean the anger isn't there, and that your actions in all of this weren't heavily influenced by that very powerful (and often extremely destructive) emotion. Normal people's behaviour is always going to be driven by a combination of logic and emotion. Accepting the part emotions played in your behaviour here, rather than maintaining the illusion that your actions were dictated by pure reason, might be an honest and healthy road towards resolving this episode (as much as possible) in your mind.

 

I'm not the best writer in the world and at times my brain computes faster than my words can be expressed. I have an issue of leaving out important pieces of a discussion, because in my mind I've already thought it over. It makes perfect sense to me because in my mind, everything has been fully expressed... yet when expressing it to others, without having the entire concept expressed, it can seem confusing and/or incomplete. I apologize for that, but that's the beauty of discussion. If a statement is incomplete of misinterpreted, you can clarify until the concept is fully expressed. So, if it seems like I'm changing stances, I'm not... merely fully clarifying my thoughts so that others can see what I've already went over fully in my mind. Mix that with poor writing skills and there will be plenty of mis-interpretation.

 

Pretty much exactly why I started this thread. Discussion helps me put expression to my thoughts.

[Darkzen]

This reminds me sooooo much of my exBF. And this:

 

 

 

 

is exactly what happened. The more he pushed, the more i backed away.

 

So what was your reason for not giving him a logical answer? Could you not express your feelings in words to help him understand, or did you feel he didn't deserve that respect? Also, did you blame him unfairly as your reasoning to leave? I'd love some insight as to why she did these things, since she refused to give it to me.

[melodymatters]

yes, but after all this is said and done, how many pages now ? YOUR ACTIONS, have made you a pariah to woman. This was not an "eye for an eye" it was revenge for hurting your feelings plain and simple.

 

I would advise NO WOMAN EVER to have anything to do with you. Your thought processes are scary. I hope the next girl you fall for finds out what you have done and breaks your heart on the spot.

 

 

...Of course you'll probably poison her dog or something even worse.

 

Your the first person on this board to actually frighten me.

[Darkzen]

yes, but after all this is said and done, how many pages now ? YOUR ACTIONS, have made you a pariah to woman. This was not an "eye for an eye" it was revenge for hurting your feelings plain and simple.

 

I would advise NO WOMAN EVER to have anything to do with you. Your thought processes are scary. I hope the next girl you fall for finds out what you have done and breaks your heart on the spot.

 

 

...Of course you'll probably poison her dog or something even worse.

 

Your the first person on this board to actually frighten me.

 

Nice opinion, care to express reasoning? Or is posting to vent, all you're capable of?

 

What does the number of pages have to do with anything, have you never had a long discussion? I'd also suggest you refrain from talking for all women, I'm sure not all of them share your views. "An eye for an eye" can be revenge or justice, depending on the intent.

 

I would tell the next girl I would get involved with, this story. If she chose to leave for it, obviously she isn't the right girl for me.

 

I wouldn't poison a dog, they're incapable of reason and react based solely on emotion/instinct. They cannot make conscious decisions to do someone wrong. So I'd have no justification to cause one harm, barring my own survival.

 

If I frighten you, that's something you must deal with... I never did anything to you, to justify this fear. If my ideals scare you, maybe you should dig a little inside yourself to find out why.

[lindya]

And that makes her actions right in what way?

 

I'm not suggesting it makes her actions right. I know it's unpleasant when someone applies demeaning or unsubstantiated labels to you in order to feel better about hurting you. I've had it done to me in a break-up by someone who was all kinds of f*cked up... but what do you do? If the views they express directly result, through no fault of your own, in some quantifiable loss then I suppose you could sue them - but that's generally not applicable in a break up situation.

 

Best to do what you can to filter them out and get on with being the person you want to be - rather than spending time and energy worrying about the fact that it suits them to see you in a negative light.

 

You let what she said get to you. It's resulted in you expending huge amounts of energy in trying to get some kind of justice. I can see that anybody who had spent that amount of time trying to exact revenge would want to feel there had been some meaningful outcome from it all. You say it brought you peace. Only you know if that's true. Only you know if you're sleeping better...feeling calmer and happier as a result of the actions you took.

 

I don't let emotion rule my actions, that makes me a very logical person. My logic controls my emotions, my emotions don't control my logic.

 

Have a read of this:

 

http://www.edwarddebono.com/PassageDetail.php?passage_id=890&

 

You've said that you set out, in this thread, to explore your actions in this situation, but the thread has (predictably) become more about you setting out a position ("she needed to be punished. What I did will make her think twice about hurting someone else in that way...") then using some quite elaborate arguments to support it. Doing that might leave you with a sense that you're right...but will it teach you anything new? Is there a point to discussion if you don't learn anything new - either about the outside world, other people or yourself - as a result of that discussion?

 

 

I'm not the best writer in the world and at times my brain computes faster than my words can be expressed. I have an issue of leaving out important pieces of a discussion, because in my mind I've already thought it over. It makes perfect sense to me because in my mind, everything has been fully expressed... yet when expressing it to others, without having the entire concept expressed, it can seem confusing and/or incomplete.....

Pretty much exactly why I started this thread. Discussion helps me put expression to my thoughts.[/b]

 

This ties in with what I'm saying in my previous paragraph. If this thread is essentially about you expressing a fully formed collection of thoughts to a bunch of strangers on the Internet, what useful purpose has been served? Is there anything meaningful to be derived from a thread where you're not learning anything new, developing your thinking or being presented with perspective you hadn't considered?

[melodymatters]

Darkzen ( and break up thr name : dark zen, very fitting, I'll give ya that)

 

I don't have to search deep inside myself to know why you frighten me, I KNOW why.

 

You remind me so very much of the man I spent 7 yrs with. A man who if he felt he was hurt or wronged in anyway used nuclear weapons.

 

It's your( and his) scorched earth thinking that is scary and affected not only me, but my, at the time 7 yr old, now 14 yr old daughter.

 

Responding to hurt, above and beyond ( ie: shooting somone for littering on your lawn) is a very scary trait to me.

 

If you share this with another woman and she approves, realize that you are dealing with one stone cold, evil, bitch, and watch your back even MORE with this one than the "demon" you "punished" already.

[Darkzen]

I'm not suggesting it makes her actions right. I know it's unpleasant when someone applies demeaning or unsubstantiated labels to you in order to feel better about hurting you. I've had it done to me in a break-up by someone who was all kinds of f*cked up... but what do you do? If the views they express directly result, through no fault of your own, in some quantifiable loss then I suppose you could sue them - but that's generally not applicable in a break up situation.

There's no recourse to the matter, besides through my own actions. What do you do? You don't accept it by walking away, that's what you do. I think we disagree on what walking away accomplishes. I see it as accepting the situation... but it's probably influenced by feeling wronged. If I didn't feel slighted, walking away would probably, just be walking away.

 

Best to do what you can to filter them out and get on with being the person you want to be - rather than spending time and energy worrying about the fact that it suits them to see you in a negative light.

 

I'm not spending the time and energy on her, I'm spending it on doing what I believe to be right.

 

You let what she said get to you. It's resulted in you expending huge amounts of energy in trying to get some kind of justice. I can see that anybody who had spent that amount of time trying to exact revenge would want to feel there had been some meaningful outcome from it all. You say it brought you peace. Only you know if that's true. Only you know if you're sleeping better...feeling calmer and happier as a result of the actions you took.

 

It has helped me so far sleep more soundly. I no longer am questioning myself over the situation, trying to find a valid reason for her actions. The answer I've come to, is that she's an evil person.

 

Have a read of this:

 

http://www.edwarddebono.com/PassageDetail.php?passage_id=890&

 

You've said that you set out, in this thread, to explore your actions in this situation, but the thread has (predictably) become more about you setting out a position ("she needed to be punished. What I did will make her think twice about hurting someone else in that way...") then using some quite elaborate arguments to support it. Doing that might leave you with a sense that you're right...but will it teach you anything new? Is there a point to discussion if you don't learn anything new - either about the outside world, other people or yourself - as a result of that discussion?

 

I do learn from others views. I contemplate everything and if it makes sense, it becomes incorporated into my beliefs. Besides, how can we find enlightenment if we do not open up our minds to new concepts? Just because my beliefs haven't changed, that doesn't mean I haven't considered the things said. So far, these new concepts haven't clicked for me, maybe they never will either... I won't know if I never consider them. You may think that I'm posting to feel a sense of being right, but maybe I'm sharing, so that if another wants to consider my side, they have that choice.

 

 

This ties in with what I'm saying in my previous paragraph. If this thread is essentially about you expressing a fully formed collection of thoughts to a bunch of strangers on the Internet, what useful purpose has been served? Is there anything meaningful to be derived from a thread where you're not learning anything new, developing your thinking or being presented with perspective you hadn't considered?

 

The purpose is a sharing of ideas. Nothing more, nothing less. Like I said, just because these new concepts haven't changed my outlook, doesn't mean they haven't been contemplated.

 

Darkzen ( and break up thr name : dark zen, very fitting, I'll give ya that)

 

I don't have to search deep inside myself to know why you frighten me, I KNOW why.

 

You remind me so very much of the man I spent 7 yrs with. A man who if he felt he was hurt or wronged in anyway used nuclear weapons.

 

It's your( and his) scorched earth thinking that is scary and affected not only me, but my, at the time 7 yr old, now 14 yr old daughter.

 

Responding to hurt, above and beyond ( ie: shooting somone for littering on your lawn) is a very scary trait to me.

 

If you share this with another woman and she approves, realize that you are dealing with one stone cold, evil, bitch, and watch your back even MORE with this one than the "demon" you "punished" already.

So, because I feel people need to be accountable for their actions... I'm exactly like your ex? Are all republicans the same? I broke no law to exact what I believed to be justice. Please do not lump me in with people that "blow up abortion clinics because they feel abortion is wrong". People that break the laws of society are extremists. I, on the other hand, am moderate in comparison. Is that really fair of you? Maybe you sympathize with my ex, because you're like her. Maybe you villianized your ex unfairly. Would me thinking this be fair to you?

 

I'd have to disagree, I'm neither cold-hearted nor evil. We're those that participated in the "Boston tea party", cold-hearted and evil? What about all the money the merchant lost? What about all the people who suffered due to the King getting less tax to take care of his subjects? What about the Red coat soldiers that died for merely doing their job? We see them as heroes... do you want to know why? Because it suits our outlook. I mean couldn't they have just moved out of the colonies if they didn't want to deal with the king's taxes? Perspective can be a bitch, if your honest with yourself. I understand your reasons, for feeling the way you do, towards me. It suits your outlook... just as mine suit my outlook. So who's right? Ah, that's the million dollar question isn't it... nothing is right or wrong, merely right for me/you or wrong for me/you. Although, we are entitled to fight against the things that personally affect us IMHO.

[Ocean-Blue]

Darken:

 

Being the flawed human that I am, I can understand your need for revenge. You call it justice, an "eye for an eye"... A matter of words really. But you and I both know that what you are yearning for is REVENGE. You want to hurt her the way she hurt you. You want her to feel helpless (much like how you must've felt when she repeatedly cheated on you).

 

I know nothing about you, so I'm not going to make assumptions about your character...

 

However, let's be honest about something. You have NOT moved on. The very fact that you seek revenge with such vehemence speaks volumes. So why not just admit that to yourself? That she screwed with you in such a fundamental way...so much so that you haven't gotten over it.

 

I think that would be a start. We all feel the need to lash out at those that hurt us. But why lie to yourself and pretend that you are "not angry" or that you've moved passed it. You are not being fair to yourself (and certainly not honest).

 

In my humble opinion, this will hurt you far more than you perhaps realize. Take a good look in the mirror, accept that you're still reeling, that you're still hurting. Then perhaps you can actually begin the process of moving on.

[LakesideDream]

Chill out Dark! I'm a republican... and pro-choice, pro-personal responsibility, against the death penalty, and a capitalist to boot. I did have my moments though, I was a big Bobby Kennedy suporter and voted for H. Humphrey.

 

Politics don't have much to do with personal relationships. I hope the furor here about your post has been of assistance. It's been a little hard for me to understand the nearly universal reluctance of folks here to understand your ideas about retribution. While not a pleasant subject, I don't have any problem understanding your position.

[Darkzen]

Is it really such an alien concept for someone to believe something is right and act accordingly for some people. It has to be about revenge or anger or wanting to lash out, right?

 

Why can't it just be, me wanting a person to be held accountable for their actions... sure the things I'm doing aren't making her take responsibility for the wrongs she committed against me... although there's no avenue for me to force her to take accountability for those, so I did the only option I have to get the desired goal. Just as going to prison doesn't make things right, if you rape someone. It's the closest punishment available, because raping the rapist would be unacceptable to our current ideals.

 

Is it really that hard to imagine? Has anyone here served in the military? Been willing to give your life for a cause that you believe in? I've seen the corpses of children at mass graves while in Bosnia. I've seen it up close, smelled the death and decay of the innocent. It gives a type of conviction that few of you would ever understand. Hell, why not just let those people kill one another... it's not our place to interfere and wouldn't be better to just "let it go"?

 

Someone has to fight against injustice and I don't see anyone else doing it. Obviously, this makes me a "flaming sword of retribution", right? It makes me evil, for wanting people to be punished for their evil actions. It makes me crazy to believe that walking away is the coward's path. It makes me angry and want to lash out at those who have caused me pain... maybe, just maybe, I believe injustice is wrong and refuse to be a coward.

 

It's getting old already, being labeled this and that, being considered a liar because people can't fathom certain outlooks... "Oh noes", I'm angry and I'm the type that will hunt you down... some of you need to get a clue.

 

Chill out Dark! I'm a republican... and pro-choice, pro-personal responsibility, against the death penalty, and a capitalist to boot. I did have my moments though, I was a big Bobby Kennedy suporter and voted for H. Humphrey.

 

Politics don't have much to do with personal relationships. I hope the furor here about your post has been of assistance. It's been a little hard for me to understand the nearly universal reluctance of folks here to understand your ideas about retribution. While not a pleasant subject, I don't have any problem understanding your position.

 

LOL, I am chill. I'm just using absurd examples to help illustrate my point. Just as some of the people here are being absurd. Labels are easy, but ignorant... just look at how many different sub-groups there are. Why can't we just be who we are?

[Ocean-Blue]

I don't think you're evil at all.

 

You will not see my point about revenge, so I will leave it at that.

 

Can ask, you keep repeating that you wanted your ex to be "accountable" for her actions and to make things better (that while she had a chance to do this, she chose not to).

 

From what I understand, you were in a 9 year relationship with her. She cheated on your (3 times) and lied about things to a point where some of your friends turned against you. Then, she broke up with you over the phone (or something like that).

 

So tell me, what is it that she could've done that would've satisfied your need for accountability?

[VIP]

You think that everybody is wrong and you are the only one who is right. Because of some special concepts that you formed in your mind, that are supposedly superior to everybody else's morality. That makes you anti-social. If nobody understands you, may be there is something wrong with you?

 

And what's the use of discussing if you don't need anybody's opinions? You should be governed by your consciousness, not by your intellect, which is just a tool, an instrument. You actually need logic explanations as to why you wouldn't kill a dog. It's because you don't have compassion, there are some people that are born without the ability to feel compassion, and those are the ones who kill and don't feel remorse. They would do anything as long as they can get away with it.

[Ladyjane14]

It's been a little hard for me to understand the nearly universal reluctance of folks here to understand your ideas about retribution.

 

It's because retribution is for God and courts of law... at least for most of us that's so. If the OP was morally outraged at this girl's job performance to the point of calling her boss and reporting her, he'd have done it regardless of the status of the relationship. He wouldn't have waited 'til he got dumped. So, he can't very well stand on the principles of right and wrong now, can he? ...not if he signed off on her behavior before the break-up.

 

Hate eats people up from the inside out. The desire for vengeance stems from vitriol and the desire to control others. It's poison. And I think the sheer volume of posters trying to tell him that this is a bad path should speak to him, but he doesn't listen. He thinks he knows it all already.

 

I agree with Melody that he's a scary guy.... because he doesn't seem to understand that he can't control other people or MAKE them do what he wants...

My goal isn't to make her feel bad for leaving, it's to make her take accountability. Since I can't force her to take it for our relationship, the next best option was her career.

...and the only logic he listens to is that which he designs for himself.

[mental_traveller]

It's not illegal. The money part is basically, that she cashed in some stock options and we decided to invest the money... I can be a bastard and keep the investment because of the situation (and she has no legal grounds). The career part is basically, that she confided in me sensitive company information (on numerous occasions) that she learned by reading her bosses e-mail (whose a VP). As well as damaging her work labtop because she played MMORPGs on it. Also that she stayed in the same residence as her previous supervisor (her best friend was dating him). She also abused her position to look up other employees personal information because she was curious (salaries and such). Etc, etc, etc... I have plenty of dirt on her and she's only in her current position because, she had a really good relationship with her previous supervisor. He helped her get the position. I.E. she's under qualified. Getting fired will pretty much take her back a few years.

 

You must not take the stock option money. Regardless of legality, there was a clear understanding between the two of you that it was jointly invested money. So that is off the cards, *even if* she has slept with your best friend, stomped on your heart, or whatever. It's only justified to steal from her (and that's what it would be) if she has stolen from you or worse. Also, you may be on dodgy legal grounds here too. A contract does not have to be written in order to be binding. Last thing you want is things getting nasty and then you get hit with a lawsuit. So forget taking the cash.

 

Also, I would say the fact of you considering this is rather questionable from a moral point of view.

 

As for work - even if she has not harmed you at all, you should inform your company. What's she's done is totally out of line - it's a betrayal of her employers' trust, a defrauding of their money and time invested. So, since she's mightily pissed you off anyway, go ahead and turn her in.

 

Simple solution then - give her back her rightful share of the money; and report her to the employer. You get revenge without committing a crime or doing anything wrong, and in fact you do something right for the employer. That way you can quit with your integrity intact.

[mental_traveller]

I won't, I'm following my beliefs, so unless my beliefs change... I won't dwell on my decisions.

 

Is one of your beliefs that immoral actions are justifiable if the victim cannot prove illegality in a court of law? For example, if a friend asks you to look after some money, and then you fall out, do you think it's morally justified to keep the cash just because there is no legal proof that it's his?

[sb129]

So what was your reason for not giving him a logical answer? Could you not express your feelings in words to help him understand, or did you feel he didn't deserve that respect? Also, did you blame him unfairly as your reasoning to leave? I'd love some insight as to why she did these things, since she refused to give it to me.

 

I tried over and over again.

 

There is a limit to how many times you can try and explain something to someone who thinks that you are 100% responsible for the demise of the relationship, and refuses to look in the mirror.

 

I gave up in the end, and walked away. I think he probably still blames me 100% and is "justified" in the fact that he was "right all along" about how much of a "terrible person" I was.

 

I don't give a monkeys arse, I am just glad to be away from him.

 

I know I am not perfect, but my current BF accepts that and still loves me anyway. Much healthier. And happier.