I know my story is no different than most, but...

[jj2007]

curious since you seem to be consumed by it, and posted about it. I want to know how the drama unfolds. Did you tell her? Do you feel better?

 

Oh well. If you did, obviously it didn't turn out the way you planned. Anyway, I wish you the best of luck getting over your MM.

 

Sorry, end of T/J

[smartgirl]

I too have ego issues. This all stems from that, I know it. My wife was not my first, but she was my first real relationship. Most, if not all, of the other women before her I would call well... disasters. I've always been an attractive guy, but I was not a smooth operator in any sense of the word. After I got married, speaking and relating to women became very natural for me. I don't want to say that I am a philanderer or an operator of any kind, just more comfortable around women. I really do enjoy conversing with, and being around women almost as much as being around men. I don't think all men will admit it, but I have a feminine side, if you will, and there are just some things you discuss with women and some you discuss with men. I thoroughly enjoy both.

 

However, when it comes to women, there is another element to the tionship. I say I flirt, but it is more of a sense of validation for me with women. I love the feeling that I get when I feel like a woman, whether attractive or not, seems like she might have a tinge of jealousy because my wife is married to me and they are not.

 

Like I have said before, I have never made intimations to any woman that I would like anything more than conversation and friendship. This situation really just came at me from out of the blue. Man, when I said I liked the feeling that I got when I felt a woman might be jealous of my wife, multiply that by 2000 times when a woman like this came right out and said that she wanted me for more than just conversation. My ego exploded. Really I suppose I have just been lucky to this point that it hasn't happenned before now. I know that women are out there that are willing to have an affair with a married man, but I seriously did not envision that I would ever even remotely be attracted to the type of woman that would. Boy was I wrong. I truly didn't realize there were women out there just like me that needed the same type of validation.

 

I suppose some counselling wouldn't be a bad thing, but I really don't think I'm going to get myself into a situation like this again. This ordeal has been a kick in the head.

 

 

SSOB - You sound so much like my H it is unbelievable. I will say that despite what happened, I think my husband is one of the most decent people I know. That's why the guilt over what he did is eating at him. It caused him a lot of problems during the affair as well. The guilt cause sexual problems - with me and her. He also discovered that discussing his guilt made her very angry. Turns out she wasn't so interested in his well-being as he thought. He got more fit from going to the gym so much, but it aged him noticably.

 

My point of that is to say that many people who get into affairs aren't "the type who have affairs." Or at least what we think of as the type. They are just people who have formed a friendship with a member of the opposite sex and then for whatever reason, a spark ignites.

 

Please go to this link and read the article. I want to hear what you think about it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html

 

My H was socially awkward with girls - very shy. After being married, he was able to feel more comfortable talking to women - like you. My husband has been a magnet for female coworkers, mostly younger, who are flattered at the way he listens to their stories and problems and offers advice and support. Like I said, he's a great guy. Not sexist, not a flirt, devoted to his kids and me. Catnip to women - trust me.

 

My H said one of the most important things he learned about avoiding these situations in the future is to avoid having personal conversations with female coworkers -- certainly never alone and NEVER out of the office. They won't always turn into emotional entanglements, but how many do you need to have it ruin your life?

 

You can't assume that this has scared you enought to avoid it in the future. The near miss 20 years ago happened exactly the same way it did this time. Attractive, intelligent, younger woman, working together on a lengthy project, she was a single mom struggling against adversity. They bonded and then he became infatuated with her. His feelings for her began to create doubts in his mind about us. It affected his feelings for me and hurt our relationship badly. We were over 2 years recovering from his feelings that he had lost his passion for me and wasn't sure I was the best person for him anymore. I thought as traumatic as that was, we had bullet proofed our marriage from that kind of danger. Fast forward 15 years to a time when we are both working in soul-devouring jobs, raising two wonderful kids. Feelings of being unnoticed and unappreciated are bound to crop up on both sides. Lots of other stuff going on, but basically he was in a very emotionally vulnerable state and a very hot younger woman became fixated on him. she was married but began seeking more time with my H - lunches mostly. But the night she suggested drinks she had an agenda. He underestimated everything about the situation. He thought it would be a short fling and that she would get tired of him. He thought he could keep his emotional distance and not let it hurt our marriage. He was wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

The funny thing about decent people getting into affairs is that they are likely to develop a sense of caring and responsibility toward the affair partner. The more emotionally entangled they become the more they lose there moorings and drift to places they never imagined.

 

What therapy can do for you is give you a safe place to talk. If more married people went to a therapist when they felt restless or unhappy instead of talking to a coworker of the opposite sex, there would be a lot less affairs.

 

One of the other posters going through this gave you good advice. Don't underestimate the struggle this might be for you to disengage from the other woman. Don't just push the feelings into a closet without dealing with them. They might pop out at you later when you least expect it.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Smartgirl (and others)

 

I've spent some time on MarriageBuilders. Wow, I can't believe how much of a cliche I am. You would like to think that your situation is special and unique, but mine is nothing of the sort. It's just average and run-of-the-mill.

 

I have some difficult decisions to make. I am now even questioning my relationship with my plutonic female co-worker (not the woman I cheated with). I'm going to have to put some serious thought into what I am going to do.

 

The OW called the office yesterday. We had a pleasant conversation... only talked about business. It did feel a little awkward, but I think it went very well actually. It did reinforce the fact that we are on the same page. She is coming back to work next week. We are going into a very busy time at work and we really need her services. I know I am in a dangerous situation. At least I think I am more prepared mentally as I am more aware of how my mind is processing my situation. I know I have to include my wife in my struggle and I intend to do it, I just need to think about how to go about it.

[JamesM]

She is coming back to work next week. We are going into a very busy time at work and we really need her services. I know I am in a dangerous situation. At least I think I am more prepared mentally as I am more aware of how my mind is processing my situation. I know I have to include my wife in my struggle and I intend to do it, I just need to think about how to go about it.

 

Having had a GF who was an addiction, I can say that this is going to be more difficult than you think. I say that so you can prepare for the worst. It sounds like you have, but remember any little step of friendship with her may lead you to the next step which can lead you to the next step...and over the edge. A simple conversation with her over coffee may bring a lunch engagement which brings a dinner engagement which...and so it goes.

 

It is very wise of you to recognize that you need to include your wife in your struggle. You may even want your wife to ask you every day how it went. Why? So that you will KNOW that you can hide nothing. And for yourself, I think you would want to talk with your wife about every interaction with your coworkers...especially the platonic one and the OW. (Yes, the platonic one could turn into an OW if the situation was right).

 

Here is the catch though. It is easy to communicate this to your wife when you love and appreciate her. It is hard to do when you are angry at her or she has been angry at you. These are the times that affairs kick into high gear.

 

I admire your progress in your thoughts. You have taken this seriously...more so than I probably would, I have to sadly admit, and this will be a big reason why you are succeeding and will succeed.

[smartgirl]

You may feel like a cliche, but as a BS I found the similarities comforting. I still felt like the A was a rejection of me emotionally, but intellectually I was able to ultimately see that this had a lot more to do with hy H's issues and the circumstances. The book, "After the Affair" was a lifeline for me. I have read and reread it because each time I see things about our situation that I didn't before. You would find it very, very useful in the way it explores how a person's childhood and method of interactions with their spouse can make a person vulnerable to affairs.

 

I know MarriageBuilders is adamant on the point of telling your spouse everything - including that you were thinking of having an affair. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but while I believe there should be total disclosure after the real thing, I don't feel as strongly about a near miss - especially when the WS is willing to face what he did and understands there is in fact a problem that needs fixing. The fact that yours turned physical to the degree it did leaves it in kind of a gray area. But the final chapter of "After..." discusses the pros and cons of telling your spouse. You might want to hang out in the bookstore this weekend and at least read that chapter.

 

I think you could tell your wife that you found yourself becoming vulnerable to the attentions of other women. That you don't know what that means about you, where your head is at or your relationship with her - but you want to vigorously explore that so nothing happens. Then you decide whether you want IC or MC. We saw the same therapist individually at first. We never got to joint sessions, because after every session with him we felt worse. He was horrible. Then I went into individual therapy for a few months and ultimately concluded we need MC. Many will not see you both after having had one as a patient, so we started with a third who has been amazing.

 

Your age leaves you in prime territory for something like this. It is natural. You just need to figure out how to resolve your very natural feelings within your marriage, not outside.

 

Don't assume, and I really mean this, that the OW is on the same page and was just calling about business. She may have also been testing the waters to see how you would act. At this moment her ego is probably bruised. She enjoyed you wanting her and now she may be feeling very resistable and therefore unattractive. She may long to get that feeling from you again so she can feel validated as a woman, not that she is looking to break up your marriage. But I think you can see how your turning this off might make her doubt her sexual appeal.

 

This is a fine line. Don't you bring it up - at all. If she does, tell her that you found her very attractive, but you have to be able to live with yourself and you aren't the kind of man that wants to hurt people he loves. Tell her that if she is the kind of woman you think she is, she will respect that. She will be able to accept that hopefully and maybe still feel good about herself.

 

Yes, you do have to think about your platonic female friend. I know two people well and have read of many others that were "just friends" for 4 to 7 years before an affair started. Like I said before, sometimes it is the circumstances that really help it take off. You might also want to check out "Not Just Friends". It is apparently the definitive book on emotional affairs. This can include things like confiding or telling good news first to that female coworker before your tell your wife. The bond can grow until it starts to cause trouble between you and your wife. I would start adding a little distance bit by bit into that relationship and start adding in some more non-kid activities with your wife.

 

I read somewhere that people who get too close to someone else don't understand that no relationship stays stagnate. All relationships change and evolve over time - some closer and some further apart. Most people can't see where they are evolving to until it is too late. That includes married couples who don't realize they have been growing apart.

 

Please keep us posted. I wish someone had been there for my H at this time. He broke it off with her right away a couple of times. But the only person he felt able to talk to about his feelings was her and she kept telling him that they owed this to themselves, it was meant to be, there was a special connection, etc. etc.

[smartgirl]

I just wanted to add something else with regard to talking to your wife about all this. She may very naturally be threatened by what you are telling her and feel that it is a criticism of her -- that you are telling her she isn't enough anymore.

 

Think carefully about how to say this in a way that will bring out her best side. If it were me, I think the best approach would be to tell me that you are having feelings that can best be described as restlessness. You feel a need to feel better about yourself and you realize that you have been looking forward to the attentions of other women because it soothes your ego. Tell her that you love her and trust her more than any person in the world and that you want her help to try and work this out because you don't think you can do it alone. Ask her if she will join you in counselling. Not because your marriage needs fixing, but so that she can be a part of the process and you can figure out how to work together to find the meaning in these feelings and find solutions.

 

She may still feel threatened, but hopefully a good counsellor can help you both to see that any relationship, not matter how great, needs adjustment from time to time as our life situation changes. Just a refresh really to help you both be sure you are getting the things you need. She may have some issues of her own that you aren't aware of.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Smartgirl,

 

I just want to thank you for your help. Your advice has been right on point.

 

My wife already feels threatened. I don't know if you recall if I posted that she has already asked some questions about my peculiar actions. However, she suspects that I may have developed deep feelings for my plutonic co-worker. This just lends creedence to what I have been reading on Marriage Builders that even that relationship is affecting my marriage. She feels as though I am constantly trying to compare her to my friend. I really don't intend to do that, honestly. I know that we are not compatible. She is very attractive and probably in the early stages of our friendship I suppose an affair may have been possible if the opportunity arose, but I can honestly say that there is absolutely no chance of that happening now as I know her well enough to know that I don't want that kind of relationship with her at all. I can say with 100% confidence that she doesn't want me either. I truly do value her friendship though. It would be very difficult for me to not have that companionship at work. It truly helps make my job bearable. I have agreed with my wife that I will make any adjustment necessary so that she doesn't have issues with it.

 

Obviously, even though this relationship is an issue, the OW and the potential for some completely different situation is obviously a larger one. My wife and I did have discussions about some of my issues, kind of like you discussed, only I did not go into the detail that you did. I mentioned MC, but focused it more on us as a couple and not on me as an individual. She really didn't think it was necessary, but obviously she doesn't know everything that is going on. She has already made adjustments in her behavior that have been very significant as have I. It just proves to me how much our relationship means to her even though she is not backed against a wall. We have spent a lot of individual time together. We have shown much more affection. We are booked for a trip in the near future.

 

I do think that she does need to know that my thoughts have gone past simple unhappiness and any kind of emotional affair. I will work on a way to make that more clear. I really don't want her to think that it has anything to do with my plutonic friend though. I'm afraid that she will associate my restlessness with her and it is SO not true.

 

I do want to stress that I am now aware that this is my issue and not my wife's. My wife wants nothing but for me to be happy. This fact is really starting to hit home. I'll figure something out.

[smartgirl]

SSOB, Your wife may not feel that MC is needed, but ask her if she will do it for you. What do you have to lose? I personally never believed that two intelligent people that are able to communicate without yelling needed MC. Well, it has helped. It allowed me to say things to a third party in the room that I had trouble saying to my H directly and vice versa. It does help -- they just guide they don't fix.

 

I think that is a yes and no on the problem being strictly with you and not your wife. The problem may be mostly you, but likely your wife does play a role - even unwittingly. You may not be aware of what those things are yourself. That's why a third party can help.

 

It has taken a year of reading, thinking and MC for us to figure out what each of us was missing in our relationship. Fixing it was incredibly easy -- it was figuring out what was really bothering each of us that was so hard. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true. What we didn't know was why certain things we could easily do for one another held so much meaning and caused so much sadness when absent.

 

Again, I really recommend "After the Affair"and "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom." Both of those helped us to see how our personal issues affected our relationship and how very simple, small things could mean so much to the other person.

 

As for the platonic friend. The fact that you need that so much and are fighting so much to keep it spells trouble to me. I think your wife's intuition may be on to something here. You need to do some thinking on that one. Do you talk to her about things you don't talk to your wife about? Do you hear something interesting or funny and think "Oh, I have to tell platonic friend about that?" It sounds to me that she if filling some very important needs for you and you have decided you can't get that anywhere else. You might be right about her not being a threat, but you are probably wrong. You clearly have an emotional attachment that doesn't sound so great. And if you are unwilling to make a change there despite how uncomfortable it makes your wife, that is really bad. You haven't indicated that your wife is the unreasonably jealous type.

 

Consider doing some reading on emotional affairs and see if you haven't maybe dipped your toe in that water without realizing it.

 

Overall though, I have a good feeling about where you and your wife are headed. You are talking and thinking willing to accept that you do have problems to work on. Just don't get cocky. Don't underestimate the power that the OW will have on you when you get back in contact. Don't underestimate the potential problems presented by this platonic friend. Don't short change the process of exploring thoroughly why you are feeling the way you do figuring out what kind of changes you need to make in your life to feel happier and better about yourself and your marriage.

[Flyin in Clouds]

opps I hit submit instead of preview...

[Flyin in Clouds]

OK, lets try this again.... I read through the whole thread and so my earlier comments are made irrelevant by later posts but it's what I was thinking as I read through it...

 

Talk to your wife, tell her that you're sexually attracted to another woman and that your marriage is in trouble. Together you two can to marriage counselling, or a sex therapist to make things more exciting...

For that matter why not get all four of you, your W, OW, and OW's H together and discuss a little harmless wife swapping? Maybe OW's H would be interested in banging your old lady... for a thrill.

 

You may all become bosom buddies so to speak.

 

Stranger things have happened you know.

 

Maybe you and OW could plan a little game of strip poker and see where it leads.

 

Maybe you'll discover a whole new exiting side to your wife you never knew she was capable of.

 

Bish, the tough love angle doesn't work for me, but I hope it made you feel better. I understand you have very little use for people who succumb to temptation like myself, but you really aren't helping me. Thanks for the effort though.

Frankly there isn't any help for people like you, because your handle says it all...

 

I do feel sorry for your wife and kids though. She deserves a better man and they a better father, if you are their father. (hmmm... ever though of that.. maybe your wife was cheating on you and you didn't know it... maybe they aren't your kids after all....)

 

She has not expressed to me or given me any indication that she is unhappy. This will definitely make her unhappy.

Since you are all about you, selfish, why would you care about breaking her heart? Other people don't matter to you.

 

As a fellow business owner, I can't imagine a better recipe for legal action (on many different levels - Civil Court, Family Court, etc.) than this:

 

You, the married business owner, have an affair with a married acquaintance that is also your employee.

 

Possibly the Triple Crown of potential lawsuits !

 

Mr. Lucky

That reminds me to put in the moral turpitude clause in the partnership/employment agreements, like the NFL has (Vic anyone? No lets not get started on people that are mean to dogs. better stick with people mean to their and other people's wives. )

 

and IamASelfishSOB I don't know where you live, and divorce laws vary, but believe me hell has no fury like my friend when she divorced her cheating husband.

 

I read your post 2 times now

you make me SICK!

 

GROWN UP!

excuses for EVERYTHING! just so you can get your rocks off. what a jerk!

go cry somewhere eles..................

OK come now ohmy3.... getting our rocks off is very important to us guys... (standard disclaimer for the sarcasm impaired...)

 

hmmmmm actually getting our rocks off is important. If more wives really understood how important, guys wouldn't be fooling around as much. Or maybe we would. The old Coolidge effect.

 

High Mz Pixie.

 

IamASelfishSOB I'm going to say this flat out. You don't love anybody - except yourself. You don't know what it is to truly love another person. And that is your problem. Don't run from that. Don't deny it. Look in the mirror and understand you don't love anyone else in this world.

 

If you look at a woman with lust, you have already committed adultery with her. Forget the religious implications, think about the concept. And remember it applies to your wife too. If you look upon her with lust you're committing a sin.

 

You are like an alcoholic. And the only way alcoholics get sober is when they have the inner will to do so. Nobody can make you understand the true nature of love. None of us here can explain to you, no one can help you, so long as you don't want to know. First hint: it's not about you.

 

My wife just does not stimulate me intellectually or physically. That may be selfish and insensitive, but it is true.

"What's love go to do with it... ".

 

The real question is are you what she needs. Not is she what you need.

 

I can't say that I am really physically attracted to her, although at times I can be. It really depends on her attitude and how she is feeling about herself.

Bingo!! Women listen up. Attitude counts a whole lot more than physical attractiveness. Enthusiasm - for us - is what counts. Your attitude toward own sexuality and a willingness to be sexy for us, rather than give up and say you can't compete with porn stars... come on gals yes you can... if you only would.

 

I think what most of us would say that what we want in a woman is ... well the kind of woman we dated years ago. A woman that actually showed some interest in getting nailed by us. If I can be so vulgar.

 

I have always told her that her appearance doesn't matter to me. Prior to this event, my sexual desire for her should have made that evident. However, she is insecure as well and her appearance bothers her, so it really affects her desire to be social and her desire to exude self confidence in the bedroom.

Double bingo....

 

But dude this is YOUR mistake. It is your damn fault for letting it get to this. It is your fault for everything that is not right in your marriage and your life. It is NOT her fault. You let her get away with this crap of not being a sexy woman for you. Did you ever take her to Victoria Secret and tell her to try things on because some of that stuff turned you on? Did you ever tell her you want so see her showing more cleavage?

 

Look if you want your marriage and your wife then fix it. Get her to understand her being as sexy as she can be - for you - not just important, it is vital. Who is in charge is this marriage? Are you the man or a mouse? Come on dude... You have let this get to the point where you don't consider your wife attractive. It's your damn fault. Step up to the plate and take charge. Or don't and let it all fall apart because you're too weak, not man enough, to be in charge of your life. And women's lib not withstand most women would like a man to take charge. They want to be want. They crave it. And you, you lazy bum, have let that atrophy haven't you? If you want to fix your marriage get off your lazy ass and take charge. If you don't want to fix it then live with it as is.

 

You say you are a flirt. Do you ever flirt with your own wife? If not, why not? Do you put as much effort into making your wife feel as desirable as the women around the office? If not then why would she bother trying to return the favor of beng sexy for you?

 

I guess I'm just dealing with the fact that I am not happy and selfishly pining for something more.

Oh, so you want somebody else to solve your problem for you. You want to take the easy road. You want your wife to know by osmosis that you are unhappy and want something different from her. And you are supposed to be the intelligent one?

 

There's a big difference between fun flirting to put a smile on someone's face and flirting with intent - Flirting with sexually charged energy...

??? the intent I get, but otherwise a distinction without a difference. And flirt with other women when your wife is around, with a twist. When the other woman are after you turn away from them and to your wife and let everyone know she's your woman. I'm pretty sure that would have a postive affect on her. She'd feel good that she's the one you choose to be with, even though you could easily have others. If you let her know she's the one you want, I'm pretty sure she'll like it.

 

Seduce your wife. You'll see how it lights her up, and in turn, will also light you up.

Seduction is a two way street... it is pretty hard to want to seduce someone that is totally uninterested in being sexually attractive. Try seducing a woman that's wearing a frumpy bathrobe instead of a sexy teddy. Solution - burn the bathrobe. Buy the teddy.

 

If I said it once, I've said it 1000 times that it doesn't matter to me. I truly believe that too. A change in her perception of herself, would make a world of difference.

hmmmmm so maybe swapping wives would help if the other H would find her attractive... but it doesn't require that. Take her to a bar, dressed sexy for you, excuse your self to the head and see if guys hit on her. You might have to let her come in unattached. Her attitude is all that matters.

 

If you haven't checked out, then tell your wife you've reached a point in the marriage where you find yourself looking at other women and contemplating an affair. You don't have to tell her who or how, but that you can't seem to stop thinking about it, so you know that the marriage is in trouble and both of you need to work on making it better.

After 30 years of marriage I got to this point too because my wife gave up on sex - frompy bathrobe. It wasn't important to her anymore. She didn't understand it was still important to me. I sat her down one day and said, "look, I'm going to have a mistress. It can be another woman if you'd prefer, but what I'd prefer is my mistress be you." Well the **** hit the fan on that because she heard the first part but ignored the second part. But it opened up communications which took a long time, many nights of long conversation, a lot of wine and a few dozen candles burned down to nothing. a lot of wine until it dawned on her the mistress I wanted was her. I wanted her as my mistress, not just a house frau, not the mother of my children, not a living maid. A lover. A play thing. A special intimate companion on life's journey.

 

How would your wife feel if the two of you watched porn together? That could revive the sexual energy between the two of you..

if it was only that easy.... but church lady would be turned off. Can't talk dirty either...

 

IamASelfishSOB...

 

You say our wife isn't confident in her looks or attractiveness. Have you let her know directly that the very lack of confidence to be a sexy woman for you is a turn off for you? That her sexiness starts in her mind and not her chest? And is she willing to try, or do anything about it or is she just going to give up? Is her trying enough? You are trying to be attractive so she can be proud of you. You're working out. Is she? It is not just physical attractivness, it's a health issue. I don't want my wife getting sick from lack of exercise. Is she willing to put any work into herself so you can be proud of her? Is she willing to compete for your affection - they way she had to before you were married?

 

Originally Posted by RIDINGTHEBULLS1 View Post

why deny yourself such ecstasy? you deserve a good sex life and ifyou cant get it from the old ball and chain, then get it from someone who gives you that attention..

No you grow some balls and get a divorce if you don't like it.

 

If you are all about cheating, then you needn't be married or in a committed relationship.

Or the third way is this.

 

"Honey, I'm too young to live the rest of my life as monk. Either we get it on sexually again like we used to, I discretely find a mistress on the side, or we get a divorce and I find a mistress. Your choice dear. But living without sex, the inimate affection that goes with it, just ain't gonna happen."

 

Too many women think that marriage means they have a unilateral right to decide every issue about their husband's sex life. If that is the deal then there is no reason for a man to ever get married. Which come to think of it because of all the pro-women laws in divorce courts there is no reason for a man to be married. It is a bad deal guys. Don't do it.

 

hey JamesM.. good to see ya....

 

In fact, if you read about sex addiction, which I'd advise you to do, you'll learn the the neurophysiology of 'sex addiction' (a poor and oft misunderstood term) lights up the same parts of the brain on a PET scanner as crack cocaine, if my addled memory serves.

Why do you think people do coke. It's as good as sex... but easier.

 

First, IF he cheats in the future, then maybe this will apply. But he does not always have to feel stained as it sits now.And that is what forgiveness if all about. He will say that he cheated, but this does not mean he WILL cheat. Men who have turned back to their marriage and rebuilt it after an affair do not need to always say that "I am a cheater." They will say that "I have cheated and hurt my wife deeply," but by repeating that "I am scummy and a cheater," they actually reinforce in their mind that they are doomed to repeat their cheating ways. By instead focusing on the strength that they have now changed, they can rebuild their marriage and know that they were weak and are capable of doing it again. But they also know that they must prevent it. Saying "I am a cheater" makes it sound like they have no control. Cheating is not an illness, it is a fault and a poor choice. It does not have to be repeated.

I disagree with this statement. You assume the basic nature of a person is changeable. It really isn't. It's like being an alcoholic. Once an alcoholic ALWAYS an alcoholic. Any friends of Bill W here? There is only recovery from the illness of cheating. There is never a cure.

 

Second, if I read right, IAASSOB has NOT cheated. In fact, he felt that this relationship had gone too far, and in his own mind he wanted an affair. BUT he did not cheat.

He did a little more than kissing, and kissing would have been considered cheating by his wife. And if lusting after women is tantamount to adultery then he cheated in that way too.

 

SOB any of the problems in your life are ultimately yours and no one else's. You are in charge of your journey. You choose to make it good or bad. So choose.

 

I do think you should be honest with your wife and most importantly with yourself.

[Mustang Sally]

Jeebuz!!!

My head is still spinning from that last post, FiC....

"It's YOUR fault only...buy her sexy underwear...treat her right...take control like a man..." etc...

 

I'm going to give (another? Maybe this has already been stated earlier in this extremely verbose thread that, admittedly, I read only about 2/3 of...) POV of a WIFE who is SICK of her H.

 

Yeah.

That's right, I said it.

Let the skewering begin.

 

SOB:

I think I can at least partly empathize with your feelings about your M. You have lost that "feeling" for your W, no?

 

Well, I am a W who has lost feelings for her H. This despite literally YEARS of trying to get them back.

 

I've been through just about every angle on it that I can find (I'm a bad woman/wife/mother, I am just not trying hard enough, I am having a midlife crisis, it's MY fault, it's HIS fault, it's OUR faults, it's NO ONE's fault, it's normal, it's abnormal, I'm crazy, he's crazy, I'm just not cut out for this kind of commitment, I'm evil for reneging on the most sacred promise I ever made....and more, but you get the idea).

 

I've tried it all in the bedroom and out...lingerie, books, videos, fancy dinners (homemade and dining out), time away (just me, just him, both of us), vacations for two, vacations for the whole family, job changes, etc. Again, you get the idea.

 

I am coming to the conclusion that sometimes, the plant just dies. Despite reasonable care and attention, sometimes, it just does.

 

I understand not ending the M for a lot of reasons, financial, kids, social implications, family/religious pressure, etc. Believe me. I've thought of all that, too.

 

And I've even thought of cheating. With the rationalization that life is too short, and "I'd rather have [a few moments] of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

 

But at the end of the day, that approach is dishonest. To me, to him, and to the kids.

 

Do you really want to be that dishonest?

[IamASelfishSOB]

FIC,

 

Wife swapping? Seriously, you spent a lot of time on your post and you lost me right there. I really don't think that's the answer. Hopefully you weren't serious.

 

Sally,

 

I don't know if I can get it back. I'm trying, but you're right, cheating is just a big mistake. I'm working on it. I haven't given up quite yet.

[IamASelfishSOB]

So Sally, what are you going to do?

[EmotionallyYours]

I am coming to the conclusion that sometimes, the plant just dies. Despite reasonable care and attention, sometimes, it just does.

 

Amen Sally! You and I are in the same state of mind today. I am trying not to post considering this, but you brought me out of my lurkdom.

[bestadvisor]

Amen Sally! You and I are in the same state of mind today. I am trying not to post considering this, but you brought me out of my lurkdom.

 

Wow, are you still considering cheating on your husband?

 

To the OP, you should consider yourself luck that you don't have a wife like EmotionallyYours.

[EmotionallyYours]

Wow, are you still considering cheating on your husband?

 

To the OP, you should consider yourself luck that you don't have a wife like EmotionallyYours.

 

No... I'm just in a bad mood. I am a little depressed that I am happy my H is away this week and that I'm not missing him even a little after having such a good weekend together. Just trolling the boards looking for inspiration... but then this post I guess hit a chord with me and that little bad person in my head lashed out.

 

What is the "OP"? The "Other Person?".... Yep... they are lucky! I wouldn't want me either...sheesh.

[bestadvisor]

No... I'm just in a bad mood. I am a little depressed that I am happy my H is away this week and that I'm not missing him even a little after having such a good weekend together. Just trolling the boards looking for inspiration... but then this post I guess hit a chord with me and that little bad person in my head lashed out.

 

What is the "OP"? The "Other Person?".... Yep... they are lucky! I wouldn't want me either...sheesh.

 

OP means Original Poster.

 

EmotionallyYours, you need some soul searching, whether through religion or otherwise. Go read these boads, you will see all these men running around behind their wife's back, abuse them emotionally and with respect. You should be glad that your husband is not like that and here you are considering messing it all up just for some temporary fun.

[EmotionallyYours]

OP means Original Poster.

 

EmotionallyYours, you need some soul searching, whether through religion or otherwise. Go read these boads, you will see all these men running around behind their wife's back, abuse them emotionally and with respect. You should be glad that your husband is not like that and here you are considering messing it all up just for some temporary fun.

 

I also need to get off these boards I think. I am validating the wrong feelings and cannot focus on the posts the validate the right feelings.

[Mustang Sally]

You know,

I think the nature of the topic of this thread is obviously very polarizing.

(Am I the Master of the Obvious, or what? )

 

I used to be in the "Black and White" camp when it came to fidelity and marriage, in general. It was a commitment made, and it was to the death. No matter what, short of wife-beating, child-abuse, substance-abuse and the like.

 

I have no f*cking idea when I (allowed myself to???) cross over to the Dark Side of the Moon...I sure as hell didn't plan it, and I wish every day that I weren't here.

 

But, nevertheless, this is where I find myself.

And I know, despite the impression many here will get, I am NOT a BAD person. And I doubt that SOB or EY are, either.

 

It is a (sh*tty) hand that gets dealt some. And then one must play it out.

 

Maybe we (the sinners) bring it on ourselves? Maybe this is our trial of life, while others have varied issues (financial woes, healthcare issues, social stigma, etc....) But that doesn't change the fact that many are here: confused, questioning, and trying to work it out.

 

Some are doing the right thing (whatever that is! I'm not so sure I know anymore...), some doing the wrong thing, and many doing NOTHING. (I'm not sure that complacency is an acceptable solution, either...)

 

SOB: I don't know what I'm going to do. My story (as most are) is partly posted here, in various places, but as usual, it is more involved than I have chosen to post here, yet (for reasons of anonymity, amongst others)...maybe with time that will change. I know I have foregone IC and am pretty much using this forum as my counselor. (Good, Bad, Ugly, and potentially inadequate as it may be...)

 

Right now I am stuck in relationship ambivalence - a holding pattern. Again, there are numerous reasons for this (financial, personal, religious, etc...). I know that this, too, is dishonest, in it's own right. But I have kept the lines of communication as open as possible with my H. He is (mostly) aware of my feelings - about him, us, cheating, pretty much everything, except some thoughts about him I have that would be particularly hurtful and really serve no constructive purpose.

 

He has likewise been honest with me about his feelings. He wants to make it work, and he is sure trying like the devil to do so. 5 or 10 yrs ago, I'm confident it would have been enough for me. But I don't think it is anymore.

 

So, I'm trying to reconcile myself to the options which seem to be:

1) divorce and the myriad of consequences that go with it

and

2) stay and resign myself that what I desire from my M is not going to happen for me anymore...

 

It's tough.

 

Sorry to thread jack, but you asked...

[JamesM]

Hello FlyinClouds, it has been awhile since we crossed paths.

 

You made some good points, but I have a couple of disagreements.

 

 

He did a little more than kissing, and kissing would have been considered cheating by his wife. And if lusting after women is tantamount to adultery then he cheated in that way too.

 

This is in reference to my earlier post which I retracted after I read his original post again. You are correct. His actions did constitute cheating.

 

If you include lusting after women as adultery, then every man I know has cheated. Simply looking at someone such as (name of celebrity) can classify us as cheaters.

 

You assume the basic nature of a person is changeable. It really isn't. It's like being an alcoholic. Once an alcoholic ALWAYS an alcoholic. Any friends of Bill W here? There is only recovery from the illness of cheating. There is never a cure.

 

And I totally disagree with this one as well. We might as well shut down the Board. And any marriage counselors who spend the time with a couple who have had an affair may as well quit.

 

Many couples have rebuilt their marriage after cheating/affairs. Many men and women have changed after committing adultery. It is not so black and white.

 

And as for alcoholics not changing, I really know that this is wrong. Let me just say that I know some who have quite drinking and have never had another drink for many years. Of course, one can always say that as long as they are alive, they can still drink.

 

No, there is a lot of hope for the OP. By saying that he may as well not bother because he cannot change anyhow, you simply say to him to either cheat...or well, cheat.

[bestadvisor]

I also need to get off these boards I think. I am validating the wrong feelings and cannot focus on the posts the validate the right feelings.

 

That might be a good idea, because there are a lot of current or past home-wreckers posting here and their view might pollute your thoughts.

[Mustang Sally]

EY -

I so understand what you said in your earlier post about one day thinking you deserve it (whatever IT is that you think you might find outside your M) and the next being absolutely filled with self-loathing about how you could ever think that! It describes my state of mind perfectly.

 

Just wanted to say (again) that I know where you are coming from.

 

I wish you (and SSOB) the best in the process of reconciling the issues.

[bestadvisor]

EY -

I so understand what you said in your earlier post about one day thinking you deserve it (whatever IT is that you think you might find outside your M) and the next being absolutely filled with self-loathing about how you could ever think that! It describes my state of mind perfectly.

 

Just wanted to say (again) that I know where you are coming from.

 

I wish you (and SSOB) the best in the process of reconciling the issues.

 

The difference between her and the Original Poster is that OP has woken up and she has not; OP value his marriage and she is not sure; OP is now 100% devoted to his spouse and she's still thinking about the OM. OP's wife will be hurt for his flirting, but nothing compare to EY's husband will face if he finds out.

[Mustang Sally]

The difference between her and the Original Poster is that OP has woken up and she has not; OP value his marriage and she is not sure; OP is now 100% devoted to his spouse and she's still thinking about the OM. OP's wife will be hurt for his flirting, but nothing compare to EY's husband will face if he finds out.

I have read (now) both SSOB's thread and EY's thread in entirety.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, Best.

 

I think EY is trying to work it out, but maybe is in a different stage of the process than SSOB. Otherwise, why would she have felt compelled to post here for advice/opinions?

 

It seems that there is little ambiguity in these folks' (and probably mine, too) situations for you.

I applaud you. Sincerely. As I have stated before, I used to be in similar shoes.

 

I guess I have let my own narcissism have too much free reign that I am here, also, now questioning things?

 

It is easy to throw stones (at oneself and at others). But I do not find it particularly helpful for those in the struggle. Those folks who are reflective and introspective about this type of situation when they find themselves weak and caught up in it are probably punishing themselves much more than anyone else can ever know. But I understand the mob-think that it is often fun to kick the three legged dog when he is down, all in the name of morality or tough love.

 

I'm just thankful that the stuggling ones have a place to voice/vent their feelings/concerns.

 

Peace.

[IamASelfishSOB]

The difference between her and the Original Poster is that OP has woken up and she has not; OP value his marriage and she is not sure; OP is now 100% devoted to his spouse and she's still thinking about the OM. OP's wife will be hurt for his flirting, but nothing compare to EY's husband will face if he finds out.

 

I think you give me a little too much credit. Yes, I value my marriage. 100% devoted to my spouse? I don't know. I will say that I had the opportunity to go out to lunch with my plutonic friend today or my wife. I chose to call my wife and we had lunch instead.

 

I do say that I won't cheat, but I can't say that I don't think (think only) about it. I have not told my wife all of my feelings. I have begun the discussion, but I am easing into it. I haven't gotten serious about counselling. I'm kind of like MS and am trying to work through it on these boards, which is probably not the smartest thing in the world to do. I read threads like EYs' and Sally's and I feel so much like them, I start to slip back into my self-pity mode.

 

I really do need to find out what will make me happy. I know(at least I think) my wife really loves me. She tells me she does all of the time. Her actions seem to indicate that she does. Sometimes I doubt that though, thinking she just may be in self-preservation mode, seeing the same consequences of divorce that I do. I suppose that is because of the way I have been feeling. Lately, it probably seems that I really love her too. I have been very attentive, sex has been great, and I have been spending a ton of time with her and yet I still have doubts about my feelings.

 

I hate the idea of IC, I've know a ton of psychologists and they all seem to be crazier than I. I suppose it really needs to be done, but I just can't pull the trigger. Heck, I really don't even know how to go about finding a good one. It's not like I can just ask all of my acquaintances if they know a good MC.

 

I'm feeling a lot like EY and MS, but unlike MS I still think my choices are:

 

Divorce and live with the consequences.

 

Stay married, however I do still have the hope that I can be happy again, but worry that I may not be.

 

The one choice I don't feel like I have is to cheat. I just don't want to hurt my wife that way. By the way, I'm pretty sure wife swapping is out of the question too.