I know my story is no different than most, but...

[whichwayisup]

I can also say that I will not pursue an affair when she gets back, but my problem is if she does, I can see myself going either way

 

If she does, you have to be the smart one and say no. Tell her ALL the reasons why an affair would be stupid, selfish and hurt your spouses, let alone the kids...I don't think either of you really want to turn your lives, your spouses lives upside down for some hot sex on the side...

 

What you CAN do is ask her to respect your choice to NOT pursue the affair. And, after that, do NOT put yourself in that situation where you're tempted. Don't be alone with her, don't spend any time with her outside of the workplace. You can be active in preventing the affair to happen, you just have to WANT to do that - To be honest, it still sounds like you're waivering and if she tests your strength, you're gonna cave and give in...

 

No doubt, I have shortcomings. Obviously she is not getting the attention she deserves. I really need to overcome the strong desire to make things worse before I can concentrate on making them better, though. If that makes any sense.

 

You can do work through it if you really want to. This is why going to individual counselling could help you alot...Think about therapy, k...

 

Actually, I have thought about telling her that I have been tempted. I honestly don't think it will be constructive to tell her the entire truth. In order to do this though, she will require details and names. I really am just not prepared to do that and she will demand it. I am really hopeful that I can work through this without compounding the problems. She has not expressed to me or given me any indication that she is unhappy. This will definitely make her unhappy.

 

You don't know until you tell her. Maybe your wife will realize she needs to put in effort as well, and both of you can communicate your needs instead of shutting down, looking outside of the marriage...

 

Yes, it will make her unhappy, but atleast NOW you have a chance to fix it without completley destroying her, killing all the love and trust she has in you...

 

Marriage counselling has to happen if you want things to get better...

[whichwayisup]

Actually, she has sensed my uneasiness. I have shown some signs of a guy having an affair. I just really think she doesn't believe I'm capable of it. We've talked a little about it. You're right though, we haven't really communicated about it. It's funny though, about a year and a half ago, she went through a period of discontentment where it was up to me to make some substantial behavior changes. I willingly did it.

 

That's because she has faith in you, she trusts you NOT to go outside of the marriage and cheat on her...That is why she allows you the friendships with other women. Last thing on her mind is, my H will cheat on me...

 

So, now you're discontented, give HER a chance to willing do some behaviour changes...Talk to her.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Frannie, I think you've come the closest to hitting the nail on the head here.

 

Why do you think the situation with this woman, rather than the others before, is different..? Is it simply because she's reciprocated..? I'd like to know how the conversations have gone between you, because it seems like you're almost putting the 'blame' on her for not turning you down... and you're almost claiming you can't avoid what will happen because you label yourself a 'selfishSOB' who "honestly doesn't know what will happen".

 

Honestly, I suppose there are some similarities, but I had never made sexual advances toward a female since I've been married. Yes, I have flirted and that and just the verbal interaction and the reception I have gotten has been enough to satisfy my ego. I'm not blaming the OW, I know that I made this decision myself, but after 15 years of marriage this has not happened before. Her advances proved that I was weaker than I expected.

 

Now some people have suggested the method of coming clean to your W about your feelings, but you're understandably reluctant to do that. At this stage I can't see you doing it, because as you say she'd be unhappy... but also it would stop your flirting games dead in their tracks, you'd probably have to see less of your (platonic) woman friend... etc. etc. But if you really fear that you're setting off down affair avenue with this work colleage then I would let your W know what's happening.

 

Bingo. I'm not going to lie. I've spent 15 years flirting and my friendship with my other co-worker is important to me. Honestly, other than probably making my marriage stagnant, my actions have not been a problem in my marriage. I am, of course, finding out how big of a deal that is. That is not the only reason why I don't want to come clean with my wife, though. I'm really having a hard time believing that I have to hurt my wife in order to make my marriage better.

 

 

But really, I think they key to escaping this situation is to concentrate on your relationship with your W. Reading your description above it sounds more like a 'list of nice, comfortable, average things people assure me I'd be a fool to throw away' rather than anything really positive... those are marriagey-things, rather than relationship-things, if you know what I mean.

 

You describe your "not exciting" sex life with your "not unnatractive" wife who is "considerate" etc. etc. etc. and how you parent well, finance, etc. etc. etc. What I'd like to know is where is the relationship in all this..? Far too much time spent on separate interests, incompatable intellectually and socially... it is no wonder you are feeling 'selfish' ... or as I would say looking for something for your SELF in this life. Nothing wrong with that... but you're looking in the wrong place (of course).

 

At this point, my marriage is what it is. My wife just does not stimulate me intellectually or physically. That may be selfish and insensitive, but it is true.

 

You HAVE to improve your relationship with your wife. And you HAVE to stop toying with the idea of giving in to 'the inevitable' (NOT) with this potential OW. Because where would that get you..? You'll end up giving even less time to your primary relationship NOT healing it, not improving it... you fear your future as it stands now..? One sure way to have an even worse one is to neglect your primary relationship.

 

So... get your head out of the clouds and start thinking realistically about where it's all gone wrong at home. Why does your W not make you feel the way you want to feel..? You say (and others have put the emphasis on) sex... buy her some lingeree etc. etc. etc. but actually reading between the lines I suspect that it's more to do with the fact of different interests, intellectual differences, and her 'independence'..? Is she so capable and uninterested in you and your interests that you feel like a bit of a spare part at home..?

 

I do know that I need to concentrate on my marriage, but truthfully, I am having a hard time finding the desire to do so and I'll admit that this situation was a huge setback.

[child_of_isis]

This is really not a way to conduct yourself in a professional arena such as the work place.

 

I am sure at age 42, you are aware of the legalities in place that protect a woman's right to employment without the added stress of sexual advances and tension.

 

When you say "of course I flirted", it sounds as if you felt entitled.

 

Here is the twist. About six months ago, my small business partnership hired another extremely attractive MW. Of course I flirted and tried to strike up a friendship with her as well.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Mz. Pixie,

 

I know you are right. In fact, I can already see that the OW in this case is not only entertaining, stimulating, extremely attractive and a social animal, she is spoiled, self-centered and the fact that she has done this has shown she is dishonest. Imagine that. She is the female version of me. I have a very good feeling that a relationship between her and I would end in total disaster.

 

I am not trying to justify my actions and I think I know what the right thing to do is, but I'm just trying to portray how hard it is to do it. I really think that is what is so difficult for people to understand. Not everyone has the self-control necessary to cope with situations like this. I thought I did, but once I dove off, it affected me in a way I never expected. Thanks for your help.

[IamASelfishSOB]

I think the key question is: What kind of a relationship do you have with your wife? Not in a superficial sense, but are you satisfied emotionally? Remember those days when you fell in love with her, may be find her old photo. What attracted you to this woman? Why of all the women you chose her to be your wife? May be all those things that attracted you to her are still there, but you got used to them and don't notice them anymore?

 

Emotionally, I am not satisfied. When we met she was a beautiful woman and she still is beautiful, although the years have not been as kind to her as other women her age. I can't say that I am really physically attracted to her, although at times I can be. It really depends on her attitude and how she is feeling about herself. I have always told her that her appearance doesn't matter to me. Prior to this event, my sexual desire for her should have made that evident. However, she is insecure as well and her appearance bothers her, so it really affects her desire to be social and her desire to exude self confidence in the bedroom. I really do believe that is the foundation of most of the problems from my perspective. I am sure that she would provide a different list from hers. The fact is, we are both aware of the issues and have talked extensively at times about them, but things have not changed substantially. I suppose I do need to consider marriage counseling. I have never been a big proponent of mental health care, but I may have to reconsider.

 

The affair with another woman will be purely physical. Do you value sex with a stranger more than intimacy with your wife? It can also happen, that you will fall in love with her and then you won't be able to feel the same with your wife anymore. And you two will have to continue living with your spouses, because she is not willing to divorce.

 

That's an interesting question. I had other sex with other women prior to my wife and I have always said that nothing prior compared to the sex we had coupled with our true affection for one another. I guess our affection has dimmed enough to make purely physical sex more satisfying again.

 

Ask yourself, if you were to divorce your wife, would it be a big loss for you? You cannot stay in love forever, but is there something in your marriage that's worth holding on to?

 

Of course, there is no doubt that it would be a huge loss. The children make this situation a no-brainer, really and I know it. I guess I'm just dealing with the fact that I am not happy and selfishly pining for something more.

 

You are probably having a middle-age crisis, that has to do with raging hormones.

 

Yeah, that's pretty obvious.

[IamASelfishSOB]

This is really not a way to conduct yourself in a professional arena such as the work place.

 

I am sure at age 42, you are aware of the legalities in place that protect a woman's right to employment without the added stress of sexual advances and tension.

 

When you say "of course I flirted", it sounds as if you felt entitled.

 

I understand your position, but I'm really pretty harmless. I don't know what you call flirting, but I'm not overtly sexual at all just friendly and complimentary. I'm not a letch.

[VIP]

I guess our affection has dimmed enough to make purely physical sex more satisfying again.

 

The children make this situation a no-brainer, really and I know it. I guess I'm just dealing with the fact that I am not happy and selfishly pining for something more.

 

It looks like there is nothing to save in your marriage, in the sense of a relationship. What is holding you is children and finances. I don't think it's selfish to want to be happy. You need to choose what is more important to you.

[whichwayisup]

There's a big difference between fun flirting to put a smile on someone's face and flirting with intent - Flirting with sexually charged energy...

[bish]

Bish, the tough love angle doesn't work for me, but I hope it made you feel better. I understand you have very little use for people who succumb to temptation like myself, but you really aren't helping me. Thanks for the effort though.

 

I don't think anything is going to help you then. You are going to want to pursue your selfish desires no matter what anyone says here.

 

I still say you need to divorce your wife and do right by her. She doesn't need this shi!t. So if you aren't willing to at least do right by her in that aspect, then chalk up another aspect of selfishness to your personal traits.

[Mr. Lucky]

Point taken, but I'm not to worried about the employee aspect.

And the guy that sits down for his first beer at happy hour before the drive home isn't worried about a DUI. And the guy that drives without a seat belt isn't worried about a head-on collision. Etcetera, etcetera...

 

The point is, you are engaged in risky professional and personal behavior.

 

Could the risk be the attraction ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[IamASelfishSOB]

It looks like there is nothing to save in your marriage, in the sense of a relationship. What is holding you is children and finances. I don't think it's selfish to want to be happy. You need to choose what is more important to you.

 

I suppose it does sound that way. I guess I really hope that is not true, because I know it can't happen again and I know what's more important to me. It's not really even a choice. I'm not happy and I don't cause any(more) harm to my family, or I'm happy temporarily, but it ends in disaster and I end up ultimately unhappy and ruin the lives of my wife and family.

 

Any ideas short of owning up to my brief encounter of suggesting MC? Worth a shot.

[whichwayisup]

Tell her you're unhappy and it's time to go to counselling so you two can get the happiness back. I honestly think you should tell, but since you don't want to come clean with her. Plus, if the MW's husband finds out at all, chances are, he will call your wife...

[norajane]

Emotionally, I am not satisfied. When we met she was a beautiful woman and she still is beautiful, although the years have not been as kind to her as other women her age. I can't say that I am really physically attracted to her, although at times I can be. It really depends on her attitude and how she is feeling about herself. I have always told her that her appearance doesn't matter to me. Prior to this event, my sexual desire for her should have made that evident. However, she is insecure as well and her appearance bothers her, so it really affects her desire to be social and her desire to exude self confidence in the bedroom. I really do believe that is the foundation of most of the problems from my perspective. I am sure that she would provide a different list from hers. The fact is, we are both aware of the issues and have talked extensively at times about them, but things have not changed substantially. I suppose I do need to consider marriage counseling. I have never been a big proponent of mental health care, but I may have to reconsider.

 

Instead of telling her to 'have more confidence', have you tried complimenting her appearance, telling her how hot it makes you when she does X, hug her from behind and kiss her neck when you walk past her in the kitchen, squeeze her butt when you kiss her hello after coming home from work? Do you text her in the middle of the day and tell her what you'd like to do with her in the bedroom when you come home? Or after you have sex, do you call her the next day and tell her you were just thinking about the thing she did last night that drove you wild?

 

Do you tease her and flirt with her? Do you go out to dinner and look into her eyes and tell her how beautiful she is to you? Do you hold her hand, or stroke her thigh in the car?

 

If you do these things, then it's more likely for her to develop confidence in herself and in your attraction to her. And it's more likely she will reciprocate, and it's more likely that she will start being more comfortable letting go in the bedroom.

 

Seduce your wife. You'll see how it lights her up, and in turn, will also light you up.

[outofdarkness]

know me as ood, and they know my story...I have NEVER said this before w/ such conviction..The things that you say in you post are closer to my H then anyone else's posts on LS since I arrived almost one year ago..

 

Sorry to say that is NOT a compliment...I agree w/ just about everyone's replies except for Lizzie, and I don't agree w/her THAT often...I really don't know if you can be "helped". I can read between the lines and see that one way or another, you WILL continue to cheat...You are determined and will justify in ANY way possible...The true signs of a cheater...

 

I would wish you luck, but I don't even want to do that b/c part of what you're doing is the I know I'm selfish and an a-- so go ahead and say it, I already know it...game...Along w/ the sympathy ploy...It's all REALLY messed up, and I've heard it ALL before...You are headed for diseaster...sorry...

[IamASelfishSOB]

Tell her you're unhappy and it's time to go to counselling so you two can get the happiness back. I honestly think you should tell, but since you don't want to come clean with her. Plus, if the MW's husband finds out at all, chances are, he will call your wife...

 

Other than tying this discussion to me. No one else knows about this and unless it continues, of course I can't be 100% positive, no one is going to find out. I guess the hardest thing about this is that you can't talk about it to anyone except the OW, which isn't the best place to go. That's why I'm here. I'm just trying to attempt to see the value in telling her and I can't see it. Both I and the OW agree with this.

[norajane]

Both I and the OW agree with this.

 

You've already checked out of your marriage, haven't you? When you have little agreements and secrets with another woman, you have already shut out your wife and eroded the intimacy between husband and wife.

 

Continue down this path and you will find yourself out on the street. Better to end your marriage honorably with a divorce than to continue deceiving your wife, entering into an affair, and then deceiving your wife some more.

[IamASelfishSOB]

Instead of telling her to 'have more confidence', have you tried complimenting her appearance, telling her how hot it makes you when she does X, hug her from behind and kiss her neck when you walk past her in the kitchen, squeeze her butt when you kiss her hello after coming home from work? Do you text her in the middle of the day and tell her what you'd like to do with her in the bedroom when you come home? Or after you have sex, do you call her the next day and tell her you were just thinking about the thing she did last night that drove you wild?

 

Do you tease her and flirt with her? Do you go out to dinner and look into her eyes and tell her how beautiful she is to you? Do you hold her hand, or stroke her thigh in the car?

 

If you do these things, then it's more likely for her to develop confidence in herself and in your attraction to her. And it's more likely she will reciprocate, and it's more likely that she will start being more comfortable letting go in the bedroom.

 

Seduce your wife. You'll see how it lights her up, and in turn, will also light you up.

 

Actually, you all can believe this or not, but I do these things. I can't say that I have done so recently, however. This is a very deep-seated issue. She had a weight problem when she was younger and then overcame that, but even though she is not obese, she views herself as very inadequate. If I said it once, I've said it 1000 times that it doesn't matter to me. I truly believe that too. A change in her perception of herself, would make a world of difference. I am also sure that my flirting and female acquaintances are not helping, however I never flirt or ogle women in her presence. I realize that I must adjust my behavior. I'm thinking about it. Obviously she is not the only one with issues.

[IamASelfishSOB]

ood,

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, not that I'm saying it is deserved.

[Trialbyfire]

You've already checked out of your marriage, haven't you? When you have little agreements and secrets with another woman, you have already shut out your wife and eroded the intimacy between husband and wife.

 

Continue down this path and you will find yourself out on the street. Better to end your marriage honorably with a divorce than to continue deceiving your wife, entering into an affair, and then deceiving your wife some more.

nj, I'm amazed how you keep trying. He's going to continue ignoring real, solid observations, looking for someone to justify his continued actions.

 

No doubt he's going to do it so let him lead himself down the garden path and when it hits the fan, he'll be back on LS crying the blues about how mean his wife is.

 

There are heavy elements of self-entitlement and control freak, in this. He's playing a risk game with the wife and a "we've got a nasty little secret" game with the OW.

[IamASelfishSOB]

You've already checked out of your marriage, haven't you? When you have little agreements and secrets with another woman, you have already shut out your wife and eroded the intimacy between husband and wife.

 

Continue down this path and you will find yourself out on the street. Better to end your marriage honorably with a divorce than to continue deceiving your wife, entering into an affair, and then deceiving your wife some more.

 

Honestly nora, please, please explain the value of possibly never being able to reconcile to me possibly looking in the mirror and make some changes or going to counciling to make things better. Should I look her in the eye and tell her she's fat too? I went down this path. She didn't. If there is any hope for our marriage, she can't know. She may find out, but I'm not going to tell her.

[norajane]

nj, I'm amazed how you keep trying. He's going to continue ignoring real, solid observations, looking for someone to justify his continued actions.

 

No doubt he's going to do it so let him lead himself down the garden path and when it hits the fan, he'll be back on LS crying the blues about how mean his wife is.

 

There are heavy elements of self-entitlement and control freak, in this. He's playing a risk game with the wife and a "we've got a nasty little secret" game with the OW.

 

I hate to see him deliberately starting down a path that will ultimately hurt his wife in a way no one should ever be hurt. I keep thinking how devastated his wife will be, and how lackadaisical he is about doing something which will cause her that tremendous pain. An affair is abuse, just as if he'd started beating her, except it's emotional, not physical.

 

If she's already feeling bad about herself, an affair will send her into a tailspin from which it will be most difficult to recover.

 

I can't understand how and why a man would do that to the woman he committed to for better or worse, the woman who gave birth to his children. No one deserves that kind of abuse. If he can't handle the marriage, then he should leave it instead of becoming a cheater and a liar.

 

An affair is not a resolution to the problems in a marriage. An affair just creates more.

 

I keep hoping he'll realize that.

[Trialbyfire]

I hate to see him deliberately starting down a path that will ultimately hurt his wife in a way no one should ever be hurt. I keep thinking how devastated his wife will be, and how lackadaisical he is about doing something which will cause her that tremendous pain. An affair is abuse, just as if he'd started beating her, except it's emotional, not physical.

 

If she's already feeling bad about herself, an affair will send her into a tailspin from which it will be most difficult to recover.

 

I can't understand how and why a man would do that to the woman he committed to for better or worse, the woman who gave birth to his children. No one deserves that kind of abuse. If he can't handle the marriage, then he should leave it instead of becoming a cheater and a liar.

 

An affair is not a resolution to the problems in a marriage. An affair just creates more.

 

I keep hoping he'll realize that.

I know how you feel. Myself, I think his wife deserves better which is why I'm not bothering to put any effort into stopping it from hitting the fan. Until she realizes how self-entitled he is, she'll keep thinking he's a better man than he really is. We both know the pretence can only last so long unless he changes his perspective, therefore fixes his own core issues of superficiality, grass is greener syndrome or whatever his neediness surrounds.

 

I think part of this, is his attempt to generate attention to support his neediness. It's another control game but with the rest of us being played.

[norajane]

Honestly nora, please, please explain the value of possibly never being able to reconcile to me possibly looking in the mirror and make some changes or going to counciling to make things better. Should I look her in the eye and tell her she's fat too? I went down this path. She didn't. If there is any hope for our marriage, she can't know. She may find out, but I'm not going to tell her.

 

What you don't understand is that lying and hiding is a slippery slope. It's already just fine in your eyes to keep secrets from your wife about her very own marriage.

 

It's not going to be much harder to for you to tell yourself that you could just take OW out to lunch and hide that from your wife. And then dinner and drinks and hide that from your wife. Why tell her, it will only hurt your wife if she knew you'd rather wine and dine another woman, right?

 

And then, oh, wife doesn't need to know about that hug or that kiss goodnight, that kiss filled with longing. And how much harder will it be to tell your wife when you have sex with OW? By that time, you'll be so accustomed to lying and hiding, and you'll have distanced yourself so much from the woman you are supposedly committed to forever, you'll just keep going.

 

Nip the lies in the bud NOW.

 

Not to mention, telling your wife where your head is at right now might be the wake-up call for her. She needs to know her marriage is hanging by a thread, and that BOTH of you need to start working on repairing what you've lost over the years.

 

Affair or not, the lies create distance, erode intimacy, and keep YOU in control of her destiny because YOU are the only one who knows the true state of your marriage.

[IamASelfishSOB]

nj, I'm amazed how you keep trying. He's going to continue ignoring real, solid observations, looking for someone to justify his continued actions.

 

No doubt he's going to do it so let him lead himself down the garden path and when it hits the fan, he'll be back on LS crying the blues about how mean his wife is.

 

There are heavy elements of self-entitlement and control freak, in this. He's playing a risk game with the wife and a "we've got a nasty little secret" game with the OW.

 

Come on. It's not like that. It wasn't like we said before hand we'll do this, but we won't tell. We did it without thinking or without regard to the consequences. I don't know if it makes any difference, but this was 4 months ago and we haven't really had any personal contact since outside of a telephone conversations trying to sort through what we did. I've been dealing with these thoughts now since that time. I'm not ignoring any post in this thread or trying to justify my actions. Just trying to sort through my feelings. Sorry, my feelings are my feelings. Am I giving my marriage the respect it deserves? Not even close, but I haven't entirely checked out either.