Ladyjane14 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well, I certainly hope He doesn't drop YOU like a hot rock when you don't measure up. I suspect God's a better sport than I am. I just wanted to add for Shades, since she originally asked the question... Nearly 30 years ago, I had a friend "drop ME like a hot rock" because of just this sort of thing. She was very up-front and clear about why she couldn't support me while I engaged in adultery. In fact, she told me right to my face. At the time, it hurt my feelings, and I quite huffily decided she wasn't a good enough friend anyway. It wasn't until years later, hindsight being 20/20, that I realized what I had really been asking of her is that she turn her back on her own beliefs and validate me.... and that it hadn't been fair of me to expect she should. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I have no friends that are OW but my sister was a MW. She didn't drag it out for forever left her H and children for OM within a few months, so I did respect that she made a decision. She was also honest with her H from pretty much the start. I don't know what happened to her, but she declined personaly after some family trauma and after a hysterectomy a nd loosing quite a bit of weight. I held tight and tried to love and understand but her behavior became VERY destructive to everyone who loved her and whom I loved as well. She left the OM eventually. Changed to a crazy lifestyle. Became a terrible parent and in general was a cancer to everyone who knew her. I haven't spoken to her in years. Her X and I are still dear friends as he was the only brother I've ever known since they dated in highschool. I still see my neices and nephews and have added two new since my BIL married a wonderful woman. I still love my sister and wish her the best but I can not be party to her trainwreck. 7 years ago you would have thought she was "Lady Jane". She would have never condoned her own behavior, was one of the most upstanding people I knew. I understand what caused her downfall, somewhat, but I cannot be drug down by it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Neither of us is changing the others mind, and we shouldn't try anyway... True. The discussion seems to have degenerated into pointless sniping anyway. I think I'll get out into the REAL WORLD for awhile and see if I can't LEARN something useful today. Link to post Share on other sites
Cliche Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Interestingly enough, I don't think I have one person close to me in my life who has never done something that I disagreed with in principle. Making me believe that if my idea of "taking a stand" involved dismissing my friendship, I'd be a pretty lonely individual surrouned mostly be shallow acquaintences. There have been points in my life where I have been extremely stubborn. I can't remember much good coming from it other than temporarily validating myself into believing that I was "right." I have found that I grow much more as a person and, especially, grow in my compassion for others when I take the time to see a point of view different than mine. Even when I don't agree with it, or accept the others position as right, being able to focus on the common ground instead of drawing a line in the sand has allowed me find closeness, compassion and understanding. I respect that some people just cannot accept certain shortcomings of others and still keep those people close. I get to that point when the other's shortcomings harm me too much where I can't move forward easily. But I don't deny that there may be benefits to drawing a closer line in the sand for some people. I'm sure my way allows for more opportunity of getting hurt or frustrated but, as I mentioned, I've accepted it that way because it benefits me in other ways. I also agree that my way is probably what got me into the situation I'm in now that has led me here. And anyone who has read my posts knows that I have struggled mightily between trying to trust MM and understand where he was coming from (gray) and fearing that I was not standing up for my principles enough and fear of becoming a doormat (black and white). Whether or not this works in my favor in the end, who knows? I'm hoping that even if the R doesn't work out, I can learn to accept that there were huge benefits to this experience. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 ...reducing all affairs down to sex and attentiveness is just generalisation which as you can see from the dozens of stories on LS just has no foundation. I disagree. From the stance of an outsider reading many of the stories presented here, this is exactly what the outsider takes away from it. Women enjoying the attentiveness of the MM and the MM enjoying the attention (derived from male stories in Infidelity when they stop the A). Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I just love how quickly these boards get polarized over the topic of affairs and adultery. The woman indulging in extramarital affairs is indignant that society fails to "understand" her love; outsiders just don't "get" why someone would knowingly sell themselves short for a someon who doesn't respect them enough to be in an honest & open relationship. you say, "I was always of the school of thought that you can't help how you feel but you can help how you act and the choices that you make," and I fully agree with that statement. I know that you cannot always choose when and who you love, but you can control your behavior. For me, it boils down to, Is this the kind of person I want me/my friend to be? Because as another poster pointed out, you can love and support someone, but you don't have to condone their behavior when you don't agree with it. what would I do if my best friend came up to me and said he/she was having an affair? I'd say "I love you dearly, but what you're doing is selling yourself short for a relationship that has no real future or basis, do you really and truly want this for your life? If it is, then you really owe it to yourself to make sure that he or she is free to have that relationship with you. If he/she is that good, then it's worth the wait." my concerns for that friend are much deeper than some emotional buzz they're getting from an adulterous affair – I'm looking at the big picture. Does that make me a bad friend? If they think so, then maybe our friendship needs a closer look ... part of the "friendship code" is to help keep each other on the right path, and condoning an affair violating that code. I'm not heartless, just looking out for them they way I always have. reducing all affairs down to sex and attentiveness is just generalisation isn't that the whole reason men and women get together in the first place? Granted, y'all have feelings for each other in an adulterous affair, but if they're truly legit, neither you nor your lover would keep your relationship hidden from everyone nor would you bother to keep a little baggage called a spouse around ... Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I couldn't continue a friendship with a person involved in adultery. Forget the moral implications, I am a person of practicality. Too many secrets to keep that I don't want. Too many people that will want my support when the sh*t hits the proverbial fan. Too much drama. I know lots of cheaters and their accomplices. I have to keep them at arms length because I know their spouses and kids and other family members. Can you imagine having to face those people when you knew all along? Its not pretty. And no one should ever put their friends in that position. To do so is selfish and inconsiderate and shows that the friendship is one-sided with one person always expecting support but not giving it as much as they need it. Family is a different story. But they wouldn't avoid me. Affairs are nothing new to my family members. An unfortunate truth, which is why I stay away from friends in them. I already have ENOUGH to deal with with my foolish family members that I love. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 In what situation? Being exposed to an unavailable person? Thousands of times each day I find myself exposed to married people - each time I somehow avoid getting into a relationship with them. But in some ways I can really see how the OW/MM thing makes alot of sense for both parties. It is almost like an artificial but highly concentrated form of an actual "relationship". The guy seems to get what he wants most (sex) and the girl gets hers (an attentive male who worships her and treats her like a princess) without any of the struggles that a true relationship entails. Am I wrong here? In the situation of having a friend in an affair? I thought that was the subject of this thread? Are you wrong? Yes... Are you condescending? Yes... If you're just looking to start an argument, it's not going to happen...Your views mean nothing to me and your attitude is not one of trying to help or contribute to the forum AT ALL... Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I disagree. From the stance of an outsider reading many of the stories presented here' date=' this is exactly what the outsider takes away from it. Women enjoying the attentiveness of the MM and the MM enjoying the attention (derived from male stories in Infidelity when they stop the A).[/quote'] When people tell how it really is and what really goes on, they are accused of bragging about their affair and then ripped apart for it... The reality is there are R's that are affairs that are true R's...It isn't about sneaking around or having a quickie in the back of a car...It's about being a partner to the person you love and supporting and helping each other out... But no one wants to hear the truth about affairs...They just want to hear what they want to hear...How it is only about sex and not about love or friendship or companionship... Link to post Share on other sites
TogetherForever Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 When people tell how it really is and what really goes on, they are accused of bragging about their affair and then ripped apart for it... The reality is there are R's that are affairs that are true R's...It isn't about sneaking around or having a quickie in the back of a car...It's about being a partner to the person you love and supporting and helping each other out... But no one wants to hear the truth about affairs...They just want to hear what they want to hear...How it is only about sex and not about love or friendship or companionship... Right On GEL!! I am proof of one of those REAL RELATIONSHIPS!! A real relationship that includes love, friendship, companionship & intimacy. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 real on what terms? And does it count when it involves secrecy? And going back to the original question of what would you do if it were your friend involved in the affair: Why would a friend want me to be part of secrets and lies? no one is denying that your emotions and feelings are valid, just saying it seems like they're in vain when the whole relationship must be hidden from the rest of the world. Romantic in a way, yes, but mostly sad, because something gets lost when it's hidden away. However, it's your life, so have at it! Link to post Share on other sites
TogetherForever Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 The only thing hidden here is the wife. No one has seen hide nor hair of her at any family functions. And if you ask how I know this, I am attending those family functions now. No secrecy & nothing hidden! Link to post Share on other sites
InfinitySymbol Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 When people tell how it really is and what really goes on, they are accused of bragging about their affair and then ripped apart for it... The reality is there are R's that are affairs that are true R's...It isn't about sneaking around or having a quickie in the back of a car...It's about being a partner to the person you love and supporting and helping each other out... But no one wants to hear the truth about affairs...They just want to hear what they want to hear...How it is only about sex and not about love or friendship or companionship... Very true GEL Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 real on what terms? And does it count when it involves secrecy? And going back to the original question of what would you do if it were your friend involved in the affair: Why would a friend want me to be part of secrets and lies? no one is denying that your emotions and feelings are valid, just saying it seems like they're in vain when the whole relationship must be hidden from the rest of the world. Romantic in a way, yes, but mostly sad, because something gets lost when it's hidden away. However, it's your life, so have at it! Why is there always the assumption that secrecy is involved? It's not hidden from the whole world...It's only hidden from a few people and I'm sure you can guess who that is... And on my part there's no secrecy involved anyway...Everyone knew I was dating him from the get go...none of us knew he was married... Link to post Share on other sites
tommyr Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 In the situation of having a friend in an affair? I thought that was the subject of this thread? Are you wrong? Yes... Are you condescending? Yes... If you're just looking to start an argument, it's not going to happen...Your views mean nothing to me and your attitude is not one of trying to help or contribute to the forum AT ALL... Sorry. Nothing personal. I will take your advice and not post anymore in this forum. Link to post Share on other sites
jj2007 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 If your sister, daughter, best friend came to you and said that they had been involved/were involved in a relationship with an MM what would you do? If it was friend or family I would tell her that yes she is being selfish and to put herself in the BS shoes. I would tell her that I would be there for her for anything but that. She is an adult and she is responsible for her own actions. I would ask her that if she decides to continue this relationship then I don't want to hear another word about it and she would not come to me crying because her MM went back to his wife. I would still be in her life and be willing to give support but not as far as the A is involved. I would also tell her that I wish she wouldn't sell herself so short to accept sloppy seconds. In my opinion, NO WOMAN should lower herself to that level. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 but they don't interpret their relationship as "lowering," just loving someone unavailable ... Why is there always the assumption that secrecy is involved? It's not hidden from the whole world ... It's only hidden from a few people and I'm sure you can guess who that is... And on my part there's no secrecy involved anyway...Everyone knew I was dating him from the get go...none of us knew he was married... O, the Irony! :lmao::lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 1. If your sister, daughter, best friend came to you and said that they had been involved/were involved in a relationship with an MM what would you do? 2. Would you tell them that they were selfish, callous, cowardly and lacked respect? 3. Would you crush them further when they were in pain by informing them that their MM couldn't possibly have ever felt anything real for them, that they were just a cheap thrill and that any depth of love felt in the relationship was imagined or fantasy. 4. Would you disregard all of their postive defining characteristics which made you love and respect them and hold them in contempt for the path that they had chosen? If you had previously considered them to be loyal, honorouble and kind human beings would you retract these opinions and no longer view them in the same light? 5. Or would you be able to cast aside your preconceptions of OW? To finally see things from your friend's perspective and allow yourself to understand that they made the choice they did despite who they are? 1. I would tell them a few stories from my own OW days, and tell her of the emotional fallout that I helped cause, and how remorseful that I was ever that sort of person, and that I would continue to regret it for the rest of my life. 2. Not in those words, but I would make it clear that what they were doing was wrong, and why it was wrong, and I would be brutally honest about it. 3. Having also been a notorious cakeeater, I would tell them exactly what goes through the mind of someone who is cheating. It ain't pretty, and no OW wants to hear it - but I would certainly not sugarcoat how mercenary the cakeeater's mind is. I would tell them that regardless of how real it feels at the time, it is only real to a certain extent. The OW/MM relationship is only as successful as the lies and deception and fantasy that keep it going. 4. No, and no. Simply because I've been both the cheater and the accomplice to the cheater. I wouldn't denigrate them so much as I would use my experiences as a warning. 5. Having been there, I can empathize with the choices but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them, or even support them. I would agree to disagree if it came down to it. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 that some people would drop their best friend like a hot rock if they knew they are engaged in an A but yet would take back their husband who actually cheated on THEM... Weird isnt't it? My bestest friend (friend for over 45 years) never ever judged me... she knows quite a bit of my personal life... She always supported me, eventhough she doesn't condone my lifestyle... but she will always be there for me, and me for her. My other best friend (friend for over 52 years) is against A... but she knows about me (not as much as my other friend)... I have problems with the way she handles her relationships... but the way we handle our friendship is... we avoid talking about it... simple... But friendships like the ones I have with these two women are the most precious and important aspect in someone's life... Affairs and relationships don't last... true friendships last for a lifetime. I treasure them... Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 that some people would drop their best friend like a hot rock if they knew they are engaged in an A but yet would take back their husband who actually cheated on THEM... Weird isnt't it? My bestest friend (friend for over 45 years) never ever judged me... she knows quite a bit of my personal life... She always supported me, eventhough she doesn't condone my lifestyle... but she will always be there for me, and me for her. My other best friend (friend for over 52 years) is against A... but she knows about me (not as much as my other friend)... I have problems with the way she handles her relationships... but the way we handle our friendship is... we avoid talking about it... simple... But friendships like the ones I have with these two women are the most precious and important aspect in someone's life... Affairs and relationships don't last... true friendships last for a lifetime. I treasure them... That has been my experience as well, Lizzie. My girlfriends have outlasted ALL of my romantic relationships (including my M). And I have outlasted theirs. We sometimes look at each other and say, "How I wish you were a man!" We would make perfect mates for each other. Except for that one crucial factor. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 That has been my experience as well, Lizzie. My girlfriends have outlasted ALL of my romantic relationships (including my M). And I have outlasted theirs. We sometimes look at each other and say, "How I wish you were a man!" We would make perfect mates for each other. Except for that one crucial factor. Exactly... too bad she's not a HE... LOL Seriously, the great friendships always outlasted any other kind of relationships... it's true. My bestest friend, who is married... lives in an amazing house on a river, just like you see in a movie... huge house... she said once that there is a room for me upstairs for when I get old ... she wants me to live with them... so we can be together and we can take care of each other. I love her to pieces. She has a heart the size of ... she's just amazing. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 that some people would drop their best friend like a hot rock if they knew they are engaged in an A but yet would take back their husband who actually cheated on THEM... Weird isnt't it? I think this is the best observation I've heard in a long time... Link to post Share on other sites
FireandIce Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I'd never drop a friend if she was involved with a MM but I certainly wouldn't condone it. First off I'd tell her that she's nuts. Why subject yourself to being the OW? Sorry but my friends deserve more than a few minutes here and there when the MM can sneak away from his wife. My friends deserve more than being in a relationship with a man with at least one other woman in it as well (the BS). If my friend truly wants to be with that person then nothing I can say or do will stop her but IMO it would be in her best interest to step back and let the MM deal with his life before she commits herself to him. If it really is "true love" then things will work out-- he'll leave his wife and they will get together. If he doesn't leave the wife then it really wasn't meant to be and maybe she wouldn't be as hurt if she had stepped back. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I would tell her I would be there for her once it ends, but not to involve me in it at all. Don't come to me asking to cover for you, lie for you, etc... I had a friend in high school who did babysitting. She ended up (at age 17) having an affair with the kids father (he was 43), and I couldn't stick around to watch. She was buddy/buddy with his wife, went on holidays with them to "help" with the kids. Long story short, they got busted, marriage ended, everyone got hurt. She and I parted ways after that as she ended up having another affair with a MM, again, doing the babysitting thing. *I did tell her to stop, and told her she needs to go get help (she had father issues so that's prob. one reason why all that happened to her) she refused help, refused to admit that she did anything wrong. Pissed me and that was that...I did try though.* Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I'd never drop a friend if she was involved with a MM but I certainly wouldn't condone it. First off I'd tell her that she's nuts. Why subject yourself to being the OW? Sorry but my friends deserve more than a few minutes here and there when the MM can sneak away from his wife. My friends deserve more than being in a relationship with a man with at least one other woman in it as well (the BS). If my friend truly wants to be with that person then nothing I can say or do will stop her but IMO it would be in her best interest to step back and let the MM deal with his life before she commits herself to him. If it really is "true love" then things will work out-- he'll leave his wife and they will get together. If he doesn't leave the wife then it really wasn't meant to be and maybe she wouldn't be as hurt if she had stepped back. And if you were expected to lie, keep the lie, or cover for her.... That's what is so selfish to me. I'm NOT lying for anyone including myself. Why would a friend expect that from you and then expect you to love them unconditionally, that isn't being a friend. I have a saying that everyone knows. DON'T TELL me if its a secret that I have to keep from someone who needs to know. My DD has a friend whose mother is VERY strict. She is also a friend of mine. I have told them both and acted on it to prove my point. I don't want to know if I have to keep it from her. That's not a position that you put friends in. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts